Carl Paladino: Put new stadium in Cobblestone district

[PromoTheRobot]

2 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

The two missing elements are covered seating and larger concourse areas. Both of those things can be ‘fixed’ way faster and considerably cheaper than building an entirely new facility. Now with that said, many have commented that the stadium concrete structure itself is deteriorating after 50 years, which makes many believe renovations would be throwing good money after bad. 

 

You forget that half the stadium is in the ground, making expanding concourses impossible. And with an upper deck in questionable shape, how do you support a roof over seating?  Build new or nothing.

[May Day 10]

5 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

You forget that half the stadium is in the ground, making expanding concourses impossible. And with an upper deck in questionable shape, how do you support a roof over seating?  Build new or nothing.

 

I think the logistics of holding games elsewhere (most likely) as well as the structural limitations make a full reno a somewhat unlikely option and increase the costs.  I would think the delta between building a new Heinz/FirstEnergy/CenturyLink stadium at an adjacent lot versus a renovation of NEF is fairly small.  

Small enough for it to be slam dunk to just start from scratch with a new shiny facility

[Mr. WEO]

44 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

UB stadium is so grossly inadequate to host an NFL team, even temporarily, it's no even funny. Don't forget it's not just seating capacity but data network infrastructure for teams and media. Carrier Dome would be a step better but still inadequate. Here's a thought....what about Penn State's Beaver Stadium? 106,572 capacity, plenty of suites, likely sufficient data structure. Downside is it's a 4-hour drive down mostly 2-lane highways. But I bet Terry Pegula has some pull. 

 

Seriously. it's a freakin' ghost town right now. If you ask businesses if they would be against having thousands of people downtown on a Sunday they would look at you sideways.

 

 

The Carrier Dome doesn't have "sufficient data network infrastructure"  to host and NFL game?  I bet that would be news to Syracuse University.

[Formerly Allan in MD]

The stadium should have been downtown way back when.  Graft can truly screw things up.

[Punching Bag]

21 hours ago, Misterbluesky said:

Any response from Albany...   

Only thing we have heard is "Do NYC teams need more money even if they play in NJ?"

[Happy]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

The Carrier Dome doesn't have "sufficient data network infrastructure"  to host and NFL game?  I bet that would be news to Syracuse University.

 

I think PTR is right about this.  For some reason, I remember hearing/reading about the data network in the Carrier Dome not being sufficient for the NFL.  There is probably a bandwidth difference between what the NFL needs vs what college football needs.

[ChevyVanMiller]

On ‎7‎/‎31‎/‎2019 at 10:59 PM, PromoTheRobot said:

https://buffalonews.com/2019/07/31/paladino-urges-new-bills-stadium-in-cobblestone-district/

Let us not forget how depraved of a human being Paladino is:

 

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/carl-paladino-porn-emails_n_763209

[mrags]

11 hours ago, MJS said:

Ah, did he not sign your Moorman jersey?

I’d never be stupid enough to get a jersey of the punter. So no. Don’t have to worry about that 

[Mr. WEO]

6 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

Only thing we have heard is "Do NYC teams need more money even if they play in NJ?"

 

It's interesting that you would choose a stadium that was completely financed by the teams that play in it ( on land leased from the state of New Jersey) to make whatever point you were trying to make about the Bills and NYS.

 

 

[123719bwiqrb]

Rule #47 to live by - do the opposite of what a PalaDINO says.

[Mr. WEO]

12 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

I think PTR is right about this.  For some reason, I remember hearing/reading about the data network in the Carrier Dome not being sufficient for the NFL.  There is probably a bandwidth difference between what the NFL needs vs what college football needs.

 

The Chargers will be playing their 3rd season in the "Dignity Health Sports Park Stadium"  on the campus of Cal State-Dominguez Hills...a crappy little soccer stadium with under 30,000 seats.  I'm sure if  the bandwith there (their big draw is the LA GAlaxy) is sufficient for an NFL team, the Dome, where nationally televised D1 games are held annually, has adequate bandwith.

[Happy]

Just now, Mr. WEO said:

 

The Chargers will be playing their 3rd season in the "Dignity Health Sports Park Stadium"  on the campus of Cal State-Dominguez Hills...a crappy little soccer stadium with under 30,000 seats.  I'm sure if  the bandwith there (their big draw is the LA GAlaxy) is sufficient for an NFL team, the Dome, where nationally televised D1 games are held annually, has adequate bandwith.

 

You're probably correct about the LA stadiums.  I was just stating what I remember hearing/reading about the Carrier Dome a while back.

Actually, I found a couple of links -

From 2014:  https://www.nunesmagician.com/2014/11/21/7257733/carrier-dome-nfl-bills-jets-syracuse

From 2018 https://www.syracuse.com/orangesports/2018/05/syracuse_details_118_million_in_carrier_dome_renovations_including_permanent_roo.html?__vfz=rtw_top_pages%3D9789600014006  which mentions wireless upgrades needed, as well as A/C upgrade (maybe Carrier can help out here)

And a TBD thread about just this topic from last year 

 

 

[SoTier]

3 hours ago, yall said:

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not in favor of a downtown stadium, but have you been in that part of the City on a Sunday? I'm having trouble envisioning a negative impact on the current level of commerce. 

 

If you are talking about the CBD, yes it is mostly empty because  most buildings are filled with traditional 9-5, M-F type enterprises, but there are businesses there -- mostly restaurants, bars, gyms, theaters, etc.   Most are small places, but that doesn't mean that they should be kicked to the curb in order to build a sports palace that's used maybe 30 times a year at best.  Moreover,  'Downtown' is more than the CBD; Canalside and Erie Basin Marina are part of downtown, too, and the businesses there are packed on Sundays, especially in the summer and early fall.  The buildings these businesses in are on the tax rolls; a city/county/state owned stadium wouldn't be.

 

There are about 5-7k people living in the CBD and the outlying parts of downtown like Waterfront Village, Johnson Park,  the Theatre District. These people would find their lives signifcantly impacted by crowds of 70k people filling their streets, parking illegally, etc  The residents of the Marine Drive apartments and the Waterfront Village would find it difficult if not  impossible to get in or out of their neighborhoods on game days/nights.

Edited August 2, 2019 by SoTier

[Punching Bag]

4 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Here's a thought....what about Penn State's Beaver Stadium? 106,572 capacity, plenty of suites, likely sufficient data structure. Downside is it's a 4-hour drive down mostly 2-lane highways. But I bet Terry Pegula has some pull. 

 

if you are going to be playing in alternate place for part of all of season and NFL needs to go along with that why not use a real NFL stadium rather than Penn State's - Steelers stadium.  Schedule would need to work like NJ Jiants/Jets and it is a little harder because in conference but possible.  If both made playoffs it would be real tricky especially if Bills were then "home" team but at least the NFL crews are familiar with stadium.

[Fan in San Diego]

On 8/1/2019 at 9:57 AM, coloradobillsfan said:

 

Okay I just did, and it says it's a baseball park.  So I need some clarification on your point

Yes its a stadium for baseball. But the restaurants and stores embedded in the stadium at the street level on the sidewalks around the park are open year round and it is an asset to the downtown core district.

[Fan in San Diego]

I was going to buy a condo downtown a few years back by Ellicott Development. I wish I had now.

[Turk71]

Paladino is an ass, I know a bunch of his relatives and they are good folks but he is an arrogant #######.

[ndirish1978]

Near a new Metro stop wouldn't be a bad idea. 

[Fan in San Diego]

Question to anyone living downtown or close to downtown. Do you think buying a condo downtown is a good investment and or a even good idea?

 

 

[Formerly Allan in MD]

If you think an NFL stadium doesn't attract commerce, check out the Pat's pad.

[red hots]

1 hour ago, Formerly Allan in MD said:

If you think an NFL stadium doesn't attract commerce, check out the Pat's pad.

On its own I would say its a hard sell, but if you have additional tenants, in the Pats case, an MLS team, to fill the void in the summer months, or other venues in the immediate area such as a ballpark or an arena, it can provide a steady stream of events for the area and its businesses year round. 

 

In the case of Buffalo, a new stadium for the Bills alongside the KeyBank Center, Harbor Center, Coca Cola Field can provide a steady stream of events on a year round basis. 

[yall]

6 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

If you are talking about the CBD, yes it is mostly empty because  most buildings are filled with traditional 9-5, M-F type enterprises, but there are businesses there -- mostly restaurants, bars, gyms, theaters, etc.   Most are small places, but that doesn't mean that they should be kicked to the curb in order to build a sports palace that's used maybe 30 times a year at best.  Moreover,  'Downtown' is more than the CBD; Canalside and Erie Basin Marina are part of downtown, too, and the businesses there are packed on Sundays, especially in the summer and early fall.  The buildings these businesses in are on the tax rolls; a city/county/state owned stadium wouldn't be.

 

There are about 5-7k people living in the CBD and the outlying parts of downtown like Waterfront Village, Johnson Park,  the Theatre District. These people would find their lives signifcantly impacted by crowds of 70k people filling their streets, parking illegally, etc  The residents of the Marine Drive apartments and the Waterfront Village would find it difficult if not  impossible to get in or out of their neighborhoods on game days/nights.

 

Fair point. I was referring to commercial impact, not residential.

[Augie]

3 hours ago, Formerly Allan in MD said:

If you think an NFL stadium doesn't attract commerce, check out the Pat's pad.

 

I live in Atlanta about 3 miles from the Braves new stadium in The Battery. It’s surrounded by restaurants, shops, bars, hotels, offices, theaters and apartments. Granted there are SO MANY more baseball games, but it’s been a game changer for the area. There would have been some new development nearby regardless, but the area is really booming. I love the Battery more on days when there is NOT baseball! 

 

I am NOT saying this will happen in WNY, as I don’t really know the area well enough to guess. But I know it CAN be VERY helpful development. 

[May Day 10]

Baseball 81 dates in the summer is not comparable of 8 dates, many of them in poor weather

[Augie]

Just now, May Day 10 said:

Baseball 81 dates in the summer is not comparable of 8 dates, many of them in poor weather

 

Not to nitpick, but it’s 8, plus 1/3 credit for a couple preseason, and all the playoff games we will host in the years to come!   ?

 

But seriously, Most people I know STAY AWAY on game days, but they love the development around it for use the rest of the year. Of course, you don’t get the same development investment without the stadium and many game days, but it was definitely positive in impact. 

 

Again, I don’t care where the Bills stadium is as long as it’s a WNY address. I just really like the Battery and it made my neck of the woods a better place. 

[BaaadThingsMan]

That cobblestone is a B word to walk on anyways. I damn near turned an ankle bout six or seven times

[Mike in Horseheads]

I have some nice land in Horseheads I own. I think the stadium should be here, easy access off I86 and NY 14. If Carl can do this so can I

[PromoTheRobot]

1 hour ago, May Day 10 said:

Baseball 81 dates in the summer is not comparable of 8 dates, many of them in poor weather

 

10  dates. Then there's 6 more dates if you bring UB Football in. What else?  MLS franchise? Monster truck shows?

[Augie]

4 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

10  dates. Then there's 6 more dates if you bring UB Football in. What else?  MLS franchise? Monster truck shows?

 

MLS games in Atlanta beat the hell out of Falcons games. Bigger, more involved crowd, greater vibe. Shocked me! Plenty of other opportunities for the venue, as well. 

[PromoTheRobot]

2 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

MLS games in Atlanta beat the hell out of Falcons games. Bigger, more involved crowd, greater vibe. Shocked me! Plenty of other opportunities for the venue, as well. 

 

I could see Buffalo getting behind an MLS team. All you need is 20K avg. 

[Augie]

1 minute ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

I could see Buffalo getting behind an MLS team. All you need is 20K avg. 

 

In Atlanta they drop screens/banners to cover the upper level. It’s a rockin’ event! You literally DO NOT SIT during play. If you do, it’s just to check out the tush in front of you. 

 

It didn’t hurt that the first time my son’s GF had passes to the Suntrust Club. You go hours early and it's open bar with free food and drink. Not steamed hot dogs....we’re talking carving stations. The players literally run thru to get from locker room to the field.  New marketing opportunities OP will never have. It’s SWEET! 

 

Went general admission too, and loved it. Not quite the same, but still a blast! 

[May Day 10]

I would love mls, but its a pipe dream here... and cart before the horse.  

[EmotionallyUnstable]

Idk if this has been covered, but I've seen a lot about the rebirth of the city in this thread. Despite all the growth in business and renovations we see at face value, it is important to note that the City of Buffalo is grossly behind budget. In fact, the past few school years they have had to borrow for the Buffalo Public School accounts just to make their payments/bills. So I ask, with a clear deficit and Mayor Brown refusing to raise taxes, how exactly is this stadium being paid for? 

[SoCal Deek]

21 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

You forget that half the stadium is in the ground, making expanding concourses impossible. And with an upper deck in questionable shape, how do you support a roof over seating?  Build new or nothing.

Not true at all. In fact having half the stadium in the ground makes both of those improvements much cheaper. (I’m an Architect.) The expanded concourse structures are simply built like conventional buildings, at grade level and you walk straight into the vomitiories (look it up) of both the upper and lower deck. And because the stadium is sunk into the ground it makes cantilevering a roof over the two sidelines not nearly as tall and therefore much less structurally  challenging.

[Locomark]

The big question is how much land is there for parking & tailgating. The tailgate experience in OP is great because of the open and expansive parking. I have a feeling that the parking will become a series of choppy lots and maybe even some multi story garages like it is in many cities. That stinks. There is little reason to stick it there because it has no sweeping vista of the water. I really don’t get that idea for those 2 reasons. Keep it in OP and build the new stadium right next to the old one. For one or two seasons you may have to have a creative parking solution but it could be done without having the Bills have to play at some second tier stadium like the Chargers did. 

Edited August 3, 2019 by Locomark

[PromoTheRobot]

What if they used the land at the Central Terminal for stadium parking and tailgating, and ran a rail shuttle downtown from there?

[Jrb1979]

1 hour ago, Locomark said:

The big question is how much land is there for parking & tailgating. The tailgate experience in OP is great because of the open and expansive parking. I have a feeling that the parking will become a series of choppy lots and maybe even some multi story garages like it is in many cities. That stinks. There is little reason to stick it there because it has no sweeping vista of the water. I really don’t get that idea for those 2 reasons. Keep it in OP and build the new stadium right next to the old one. For one or two seasons you may have to have a creative parking solution but it could be done without having the Bills have to play at some second tier stadium like the Chargers did. 

A stadium downtown will have smaller tailgating area, probably in Bills owned lots. Its also their way of getting people to go to the bars near the stadium to tailgate. With everything the Pegulas have done to downtown, why wouldn't they put a new Bills stadium there. 

 

Bills fans seem to be the only fanbase against a new stadium. Most other fanbases would love to have a new stadium. I would love a stadium like Atlanta has. Nice big concourses and better amenities. 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

...with the Harbor, you take away 25% of directional accessibility.....and (just my opinion) you would need a massive overhaul of the infrastructure to accommodate the traffic, probably BILLIONS..... and with the "lightning speed" of the Feds, downtown stadium may open by 2042....I'll be in "Hell's Kitchen" by then....

Edited August 3, 2019 by OldTimeAFLGuy

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

I'm not against the idea in theory. I would love it if we could remake the waterfront into a gorgeous piece of sports arena work. However, I am aware of the following:

 

A) The argument that downtown stadiums bring in tons of revenue to local establishments tends to be B.S. Very few people want to go right around the stadium while a game is happening unless they are going to the game already. During the games, and when there are no events, it is wasted space.

 

B) how bad is traffic on the night of a Sabres game when it lets out? Imagine that, with extreme lowball figures, to be three times worse on an NFL gameday.

 

Fixing that alone would be a massive infrastructure and public transportation upgrade. While I do think that might benefit the city as a whole, that's a buttload of money before we even consider the stadium construction costs.

 

 

[EmotionallyUnstable]

13 minutes ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said:

I'm not against the idea in theory. I would love it if we could remake the waterfront into a gorgeous piece of sports arena work. However, I am aware of the following:

 

A) The argument that downtown stadiums bring in tons of revenue to local establishments tends to be B.S. Very few people want to go right around the stadium while a game is happening unless they are going to the game already. During the games, and when there are no events, it is wasted space.

 

B) how bad is traffic on the night of a Sabres game when it lets out? Imagine that, with extreme lowball figures, to be three times worse on an NFL gameday.

 

Fixing that alone would be a massive infrastructure and public transportation upgrade. While I do think that might benefit the city as a whole, that's a buttload of money before we even consider the stadium construction costs.

 

 

 

Sabres parking can be simple or a nightmare. For those who don't mind walking, you can find pretty cheap or even free parking and hoof it to the stadium. If you want to be closer, you are forsaken to the congested crowd of 18 thousand plus all trying to go the same way on a single street. 

 

A DT standium with the current infastructure is not practical IMO.