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Mitch Morse in concussion protocol

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, thebandit27 said:

 

I don't mean to make this about Watkins, but boy do I disagree there.

 

They didn't have to extend him, all they had to do was pick up his 5th year option, which would've paid him a bit over $10M (totally reasonable considering Tyrell Williams is currently getting $11M). After that, they could've tagged him for 2 straight years.  They basically gave up on him 3 years early, and as a result they've had nothing that resembles a downfield threat at WR for 2 full seasons.

 

They Made the decision not to pick up his option after the draft right when Beane was coming in and Whaley was being shown the door.  I wonder if the decision would've been the same if Beane had more time in the front office before he had to make the decision.

 

Regardless they decided not to pick up the option on a guy who had been hurt often, and they were in the process of revamping a roster.  Then when they got to Camp they saw an opportunity to move Sammy to get draft assets to help ensure they could get their QB.  They obviously valued that above all else... and I don't blame them.  

 

Regardless of if they'd picked up Sammy's option or not I think he would've been traded so they could add that 2nd and Gaines, which allowed them to feel comfortable trading away Darby for a 3rd and Matthews.  

 

That 2nd helped them get Allen, and that 3rd helped them get Edmunds...

 

Would you rather have Allen and Edmunds, or just Allen... the reason I put it that way, is if we didn't have a 2 seconds, we would've needed to give up our second 1st rounder to get Allen.  And we wouldn't have had the extra third we used to go up for Edmunds either. 

Edited by MR8
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13 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

What??? When was the last time a Bills' pass catcher even sniffed 700 yards in a season?

 

His departure didn't cost us? He had over 2,000 yards receiving in the '14/'15 seasons playing on an offense that threw the ball less than any other unit in the league (this despite playing with a QB triumverate of EJ Manuel, Kyle Orton, and Tyrod Taylor).

 

Further, to say that this wasn't a good football team at the time is kind of crazy. The team was loaded on offense: McCoy, Watkins, Woods, Goodwin, Hogan, and an offensive line that was performing near the top of the league.

 

As for what the trade returns contributed, EJ Gaines missed parts of 8 games that season, and the pick that came back was used in a trade.

 

Lastly, why would they have kept Watkins? Probably so that they didn't have to spend $16M in free agency this season to bring in multiple players that they're hoping will produce 80% of what Watkins produced here when healthy.

 

Not pursuing Watkins was a really good decision by Bills brass for numerous reasons that have been discussed ad nauseum.   Not sure how this is even still a debate in some quarters. 

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29 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

Watkins statements on his own immaturity while here have been twisted and overblown. Besides, plenty of Diva WRs have been retained by their teams over the years. The strategy described for retaining SW could have been employed , and wouldn’t have been considered unusual at the time. No one knows how it may have turned out, and he was easily the Bills biggest receiving threat when here. 

 

When he was on the field, maybe.

 

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2 hours ago, MR8 said:

 

Did you even bother to read the rest of my post that you cut off?  Because it entirely disproves your inaccurate statements... I don't think you understand how the Salary cap or dead cap works...  Dead cap hits are the remainder of guaranteed money...  He got $11M at signing (money which has already been paid and needs to be accounted for over the 4 years of the deal at $2.75M per year), and $9.4M across the first 2 years of the deal.  Add up $11 + 9.4 and you get how much?  OHHHH right $20.4... the exact same as his dead cap hit if we cut him this year.

 

 

 

 

I understand how the salary cap works bud.

 

But here is something you apparently can't get your head around...................because you can roll forward all unused cap dollars at the end of a league year...............cap room spent on a player who is not playing that year is NOT "cap room saved" by waiting to cut them next year.

 

You spend $10M of cap space this year that's $10M you can't roll forward.    Understand?      

 

It's ultimately very simple........they are on the hook for AT LEAST Morse's guaranteed money.......$26.125M.

 

I mean do you or do you NOT understand what "guaranteed" means?

 

A minimum of $26.125M in cap space is allotted to Mitch Morse over the next two or three cap years depending on how the choose to account for it.

 

That's just the way it is.   

 

Whether you call it "dead" money or not is just semantics if the player doesn't play.   You don't get "salary cap credits" back for a player not being on the roster(aka "dead") as opposed to him being on IR or inactive on gamedays.    It's cap room spent for no play either way.

 

Now before anyone assumes I am writing Morse off for 2019 that is not the case.............I am just trying to explain how the salary cap ACTUALLY works to someone who clearly does not.    

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

Think Dareus was a little career threatening too as one incident away from a suspension from what I recall.

 

Of the 4 you mention, don't recall any attitude or at least not much with either Woods or Gilmore.  As far as I recall neither of them were not welcomed back if they had wanted to sign here.  Dareus, didn't I hear him being taken out last year for passing downs.  Is it really because he's it's been figured out that not very good or is it still related to attitude?  He may not be making the 11 O'clock news anymore, but is he really playing as well as he can?  Sammy well he's kind of faded to oblivion.

 

As for McCoy, so when exactly did he mature, after the 2013 incident when he kicked some woman off his party bus, or after the fight with the off-duty police in Philly, or was it after the domestic violence incident last year.  Does being out of the news over the last year changed him?  I'll grant you, he seems to be a locker room leader, just as Dareus may have been, but in a bad way.

 

 

1) Don't even go down the suspension path:

 

On Tuesday, anyone who didn’t already know of Pegula’s interest in the athlete representation business learned about it after he announced he had acquired Atlanta-based France AllPro Athlete Management, the agency of prominent NFL player agent Todd France.

 

Guess who the agent who negotiated that unprecedented contract without language protecting the team against suspension was.😲

 

Dareus not playing well is on him..........but he had earned the contract with first team All Pro play.........the extraordinary language or lack thereof is on a couple of long time business pals.

 

2)  Gilmore had quit in him as a Bill.........most of his big plays allowed were at the end of plays that he had otherwise well covered but let up on....... and he wouldn't wrap up a ball carrier to save his life.   Woods was a walking tantrum for the first couple years as a Bill.   Own worst enemy.  That's really where the "Bob Woods is F'in crazy" stuff began.

 

 

Edited by BADOLBILZ

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3 hours ago, CommonCents said:

False. 

 

It’s a simple point and if you could get down from the hill of everything’s awesome then you’d see it.

 

Morse has a lengthy history of concussions, do you think it’s likely, possible, or impossible that someone in KC knew that Morse was either suffering severely or just not able to get past the mental block of sacrificing his health?

 

Obviously the story isn’t finished yet, this will be talked about a ton if he never comes back or plays less than a handful of games. 

 

I think they still made some nice oline decisions, heck I loved the Morse signing this winter. This just feels off though, the guy got concussed playing in the first practice then out for who knows how long.

Give me a break with the everything’s awesome junk.  I said Beane made a calculated gamble on Morse and if he can’t play then Beane lost.  

 

What I will absolutely guarantee is that Beane had a helluva lot more date available to him before pulling the trigger than any blowhard on a message board.

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1 hour ago, Magox said:

 

Not pursuing Watkins was a really good decision by Bills brass for numerous reasons that have been discussed ad nauseum.   Not sure how this is even still a debate in some quarters. 

 

Pretty simple: the team went from having a WR that could threaten defenses at every level to having zero WRs that any D.C. even paid mind.

 

And they did it of their own volition when they had the player's rights for 3 more seasons uncontested.

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1 hour ago, MR8 said:

 

 

That 2nd helped them get Allen, and that 3rd helped them get Edmunds...

 

Would you rather have Allen and Edmunds, or just Allen... the reason I put it that way, is if we didn't have a 2 seconds, we would've needed to give up our second 1st rounder to get Allen.  And we wouldn't have had the extra third we used to go up for Edmunds either. 

The 3rd that was traded to Baltimore in the Edmunds trade was the 3rd they got from Cleveland for Tyrod Taylor.  The Edmunds trade has nothing to do with the Darby trade. The Philly pick was used to draft Harrison Phillips.  

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15 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Pretty simple: the team went from having a WR that could threaten defenses at every level to having zero WRs that any D.C. even paid mind.

 

And they did it of their own volition when they had the player's rights for 3 more seasons uncontested.

 

 

Not picking up his option was just dumb.............all that did was de-value the player in trade.

 

For some reason people can't understand that they weren't going to be obligated to give Watkins a multi-year deal for several years.

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26 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Give me a break with the everything’s awesome junk.  I said Beane made a calculated gamble on Morse and if he can’t play then Beane lost.  

 

What I will absolutely guarantee is that Beane had a helluva lot more date available to him before pulling the trigger than any blowhard on a message board.

You don’t think the problem with that?  That people on a message board know about his concussion history and yet we made him the highest paid C in the nfl?  It was always a hugely risky signing.  Fingers crossed it works out but if it doesn’t, they should be ripped. 

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6 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

You don’t think the problem with that?  That people on a message board know about his concussion history and yet we made him the highest paid C in the nfl?  It was always a hugely risky signing.  Fingers crossed it works out but if it doesn’t, they should be ripped. 

 

I don't recall anyone bringing up his concussion history when we were pursuing him. 

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1 minute ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

I don't recall anyone bringing up his concussion history when we were pursuing him. 

It was well known 

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Just now, PromoTheRobot said:

 

I don't recall anyone bringing up his concussion history when we were pursuing him. 

I definitely remember some people saying it.  I don’t really pay attention to o linemen so I freely admit I didn’t know about it.  Really good player but this is going to hang over the signing.

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11 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

You don’t think the problem with that?  That people on a message board know about his concussion history and yet we made him the highest paid C in the nfl?  It was always a hugely risky signing.  Fingers crossed it works out but if it doesn’t, they should be ripped. 

I think you’re one of those who believes you have as much knowledge as Beane when making decisions.  You’re wrong.  Doesn’t mean his decisions will all be correct.  

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Pretty simple: the team went from having a WR that could threaten defenses at every level to having zero WRs that any D.C. even paid mind.

 

And they did it of their own volition when they had the player's rights for 3 more seasons uncontested.

The wide receiver you are talking about was a pariah with his Bill's teammates, was often injured, inconsistent and was going to want a huge contract.   He massively underperformed his contract with the Rams and the Chiefs and he has continue to prove to be very injury prone.

 

There is very little doubt that it was the right move.  You know I respect you but this is not even reasonably debatable.

Edited by Magox

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3 hours ago, Boatdrinks said:

Not true, again because of the protocol. It could be really bad or mostly precautionary. Even if Morse wasn’t visible at camp there would be scant details and we’d likely not know anything more than we do now. It’s just handled differently than any other injury a player could sustain on the field. 

 

 

It wasJust opinion on my part 

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1 hour ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Pretty simple: the team went from having a WR that could threaten defenses at every level to having zero WRs that any D.C. even paid mind.

 

And they did it of their own volition when they had the player's rights for 3 more seasons uncontested.

yep

 it was purely about process.
coulda chized him the following year as well.
 

Robert Wood though...

19 minutes ago, Magox said:

The wide receiver you are talking about was a pariah with his Bill's teammates, was often injured, inconsistent and was going to want a huge contract.   He massively underperformed his contract with the Rams and the Chiefs and he has continue to prove to be very injury prone.

 

There is very little doubt that it was the right move.  You know I respect you but this is not even reasonably debatable.

when he was a Bill  we were never sure what was going on in regard to Watkins.

but he sure made some plays

when he played

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21 minutes ago, Magox said:

The wide receiver you are talking about was a pariah with his Bill's teammates, was often injured, inconsistent and was going to want a huge contract.   He massively underperformed his contract with the Rams and the Chiefs and he has continue to prove to be very injury prone.

 

There is very little doubt that it was the right move.  You know I respect you but this is not even reasonably debatable.

 

No worries.

 

You're right that he was clearly a better WR here than he's been since leaving. 

 

I just believe that the self-inflicted loss at the WR spot still hurts the team to this day.

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Posted (edited)

But Morse was a great pickup in my view when it occurred. I liked it better than the other guy who had more injury risk.

 There were two high rated centers available in FA and we took one of them

  we would B word regardless.
but thats fair.

Let hope Morse clears his head and gets one of the new helmets A Brown refuses to wear and we are good at center for years to come

2 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

No worries.

 

You're right that he was clearly a better WR here than he's been since leaving. 

 

I just believe that the self-inflicted loss at the WR spot still hurts the team to this day.

its a fair cop. but the team set themselves back in more than one way under new management post Rex/ Marrone

Edited by 3rdand12

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1 hour ago, oldmanfan said:

Give me a break with the everything’s awesome junk.  I said Beane made a calculated gamble on Morse and if he can’t play then Beane lost.  

 

What I will absolutely guarantee is that Beane had a helluva lot more date available to him before pulling the trigger than any blowhard on a message board.

Oh look the get off my lawn guy gets mouthy. Grow up you curmudgeon.

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1 minute ago, CommonCents said:

Oh look the get off my lawn guy gets mouthy. Grow up you curmudgeon.

Did I or did I not say Beane would lose on his calculated gamble if the Morse thing did not work?  So quit telling me and others I approve everything they do.  I don’t.  I just realize that and I dont’ go berserk if a decision doesn’t pan out.

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4 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Did I or did I not say Beane would lose on his calculated gamble if the Morse thing did not work?  So quit telling me and others I approve everything they do.  I don’t.  I just realize that and I dont’ go berserk if a decision doesn’t pan out.

Berserk? As in saying that if this doesn’t work out then I will question their personnel evaluations on the pro level? 

 

Put things in context, I’m not here to bash Beane. I was probably the biggest JA supporter leading up to and after his selection. This would be a big swing and miss. No doubt about it. I don’t see why that conversation can’t take place without being nasty towards other fans.

 

Everyone wants the same thing. Ws.

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1 minute ago, CommonCents said:

Berserk? As in saying that if this doesn’t work out then I will question their personnel evaluations on the pro level? 

 

Put things in context, I’m not here to bash Beane. I was probably the biggest JA supporter leading up to and after his selection. This would be a big swing and miss. No doubt about it. I don’t see why that conversation can’t take place without being nasty towards other fans.

 

Everyone wants the same thing. Ws.

Not saying you are berserk and apologize for giving you that impression.

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18 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

No worries.

 

You're right that he was clearly a better WR here than he's been since leaving. 

 

I just believe that the self-inflicted loss at the WR spot still hurts the team to this day.

 

 

In his year and half in Buffalo Kelvin Benjamin cost them almost exactly what the Watkins 5th year option cost and was nearly worthless..........he might as well have had a broken foot:lol:.

 

And they gave up a pick that was less than a full round later than what the Rams gave the Bills for Watkins. :doh:

 

Their culture somehow survived KB I think they might have gotten by with Ol' Sammy.

 

Whether some people want to admit it or not the decisions to not pick up his option and then to trade him were both poor ones.

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7 minutes ago, CommonCents said:

Berserk? As in saying that if this doesn’t work out then I will question their personnel evaluations on the pro level? 

 

Put things in context, I’m not here to bash Beane. I was probably the biggest JA supporter leading up to and after his selection. This would be a big swing and miss. No doubt about it. I don’t see why that conversation can’t take place without being nasty towards other fans.

 

Everyone wants the same thing. Ws.

Grow up ?
Curmudgeon.


us old farts earned our narrow opinions.

show some respect.

 

: )

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