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Mitch Morse in concussion protocol

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1 minute ago, Ittakestime said:

 

Can people stop saying Long can play center?  Just because a guy was put there and failed miserably, doesn't mean he can play it.

 

They guy can't play it and was not brought here to play it.

 

 

They brought in Long when they needed 2 guards AND a center.    I am guessing they wouldn't have brought him in at all if they knew they were going to get all the players they did in UFA plus Ford in the draft.   I give credit to Beane for not giving up the pursuit of better.    Spain might prove to be the best of the group and they could easily have been "out" on him after all the players they added.    

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14 minutes ago, Ittakestime said:

 

Can people stop saying Long can play center?  Just because a guy was put there and failed miserably, doesn't mean he can play it.

 

They guy can't play it and was not brought here to play it.

He played it with a messed up hand last year. And it seems clear Feliciano is the main backup.

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18 minutes ago, DJB said:

Still very concerning  he hasn't fully practiced or recovered yet .

Concerning yes, but it's also possible they are being cautious with him since they are still a month away from the first game.  No reason to rush him back.

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12 minutes ago, CommonCents said:

If a guy you just inked to a premium contract is one soft practice away from retiring due to injury would you atleast say wow we screwed up? 

 

If Morse is toast I’d begin doubting the staffs ability to evaluate players. They couldn’t find a connection in KC or around the league who knew more about this? 

 

It’s not the end of the world, but if we are evaluating the FO this would be a huge black eye on the pro personnel side of things. 

If you look back at Morse’s interview with WGR he talks about some extensive testing in the offseason which indicated he didn’t have much recurrence risk.  I presume the front office knew something about that.

 

I think this is a classic case of folks

here thinking have more knowledge that the fromt office.  Beane took what I’d call a calculated gamble perhaps, but he had a lot more data available to make that play.  And if it doesn’t work out then he lost.

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22 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

The worst case scenario is that Morse cannot come back and they reach an injury settlement.  In which case it was pretty smart for Beane to have also brought on both Feliciano and Long, both of which can play the position. 

 

Morse had $20.4M guaranteed at signing. That is what the Bills are on the hook for.  There’s no point in any injury settlement if he’s done.  Those are only in cases where a team and player both want to move on and the player wants to play elsewhere later in the same season.  That would not be the case here.

 

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1 hour ago, Putin said:

Soooo what your saying is Trump is to blame ?

Well, he certainly can't be blamed for YOUR bad grammar. Once again, your and you're are not interchangeable

youre3.png

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10 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

I think this is a classic case of folks here thinking have more knowledge that the front office. 

 

Hmmmmmmm, doesn't sound like the TBD *I* know 🤣

 

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2 hours ago, Jpsredemption said:

Morse and Kroft, signings that should have come under immediate scrutiny due to lofty contracts and injury concerns and in Krofts case production concerns, do not look good right now. This front office wants to take gambles and a part of me respects that but the concussion concerns should no longer be overlooked. Careers will now end prematurely because of it and for good reason. 

 

The Kroft and Morse deals LOOK "Lofty" but in reality they are not... Morse's is a bit more firm than Kroft, but both are deals the Bills can get out of fairly easily...

 

Kroft's Deal:

Year Age Base Salary Prorated Bonus Roster Bonus Per Game Roster Bonus Workout Bonus   Guaranteed Salary   Cap
Number
Cap %  
Dead Money & Cap Savings
Cut (pre-June 1)Cut (post-June 1)Trade (pre-June 1)Trade (post-June 1)RestructureExtension 
Total   $10,950,000 $2,400,000 $3,600,000 $1,500,000 $300,000   $3,900,000   $18,406,250    
2019 📝 27 $1,800,000 $800,000 $2,100,000 $500,000 $100,000   $3,900,000   $4,956,250 2.6%  
$6,300,000
($1,343,750)
2020 📝 28 $4,450,000 $800,000 $750,000 $500,000 $100,000   $0   $6,600,000 3.3%  
$1,600,000
$5,000,000
2021 📝 29 $4,700,000 $800,000 $750,000 $500,000 $100,000   $0   $6,850,000 --  
$800,000
$6,050,000

 

So he'a s Cap hit of just $4.95M in 2019, which increases to $6.6M in 2020.  HOWEVER in 2020 if we want to cut him we wear just a $1.6M cap hit with $5M in cap savings.  In 2021, he would be $6.85M against the cap, but if we cut him we wear just a $800K cap hit and save $6.05M.  

 

This deal is by definition a 1 year deal with team option years.  Kroft gets nice guaranteed salary for 2019, but going into 2020 and 2021 there is nothing guaranteed, so he needs to EARN IT.  If he can't stay healthy this year, they can put him on IR and come to an injury settlement, OR just wait until the 2020 league year, release him, and wear a small cap penalty and move on.  It's not the end of the world by any means.

 

Morse Deal:

 

Year Age Base Salary Prorated Bonus Roster Bonus Per Game Roster Bonus Workout Bonus   Guaranteed Salary   Cap
Number
Cap %  
Dead Money & Cap Savings
Cut (pre-June 1)Cut (post-June 1)Trade (pre-June 1)Trade (post-June 1)RestructureExtension 
Total   $25,100,000 $11,000,000 $5,000,000 $3,000,000 $400,000   $9,400,000   $44,187,500    
2019 26 $4,400,000 $2,750,000 $3,000,000 $1,000,000 $100,000   $7,400,000   $10,937,500 5.8%  
$20,400,000
($9,462,500)
2020 📝 27 $6,775,000 $2,750,000 $1,000,000 $1,000,000 $100,000   $2,000,000   $11,625,000 5.8%  
$10,250,000
$1,375,000
2021 28 $7,025,000 $2,750,000 $0 $500,000 $100,000   $0   $10,375,000 --  
$5,500,000
$4,875,000
2022 📝 29 $6,900,000 $2,750,000 $1,000,000 $500,000 $100,000   $0   $11,250,000 --  
$2,750,000
$8,500,000

 

WHAT?!?!?!? $44M??? HIT THE PANIC BUTTON!!!!! Oh, what's that? only $9.4M is guaranteed?

 

The Morse deal is a bit more than a 1 year deal like Kroft's, it's essentially a 2 year deal with SIGNIFICANT protection to the Bills considering the dangers of injuries for Morse.  The first year, this year, 2019, he is $10.9M against the cap, and it would be a SIZEABLE $20M to cut him... well he'd be post June 1st now so it would be $12M in 2019 and $8M in 2020... but I digress.... Sure that's big, we can't get rid of him in 2019, HOWEVER in 2020, his cap hit goes up to $11,625, but if we decided to opt out of the experiment and go in a different direction, he can be release for a $10.25M dead cap hit, and actual cap savings of $1.3M.  

 

After that 2 year period, the Bills realize much larger cap savings if they want to get out from under the Morse deal... in 2021, they could cut him for a $5.5M cap hit and $4.87M savings and in 2022 the final year, we could cut him and only wear the final $2.75M of his signing bonus and save $8.5M

 

While it was a risk to sign Morse to a deal with this much money, they structured it with outs every year following the 2019 season where they would eat cap, but could also get relief if they chose to move on from Morse, or Morse needed to retire etc...

 

If they or Morse himself decides he's done after 2019, we do wear $10M in dead cap, but it comes in a year when we are FLUSH with cap to replace him, and after 2020, that is off the books and we move on.  If he gets healthy and stays a few years, our ability to get out from under the deal only gets better and better. 

 

....

 

People complain about the deal like it's going to kill us in the future, however those same people tend to run around complaining without actually looking at the details of the contract and the ability for the Bills to get out of them.  There's a new sheriff in town and unlike years past, Beane is structuring deals to benefit the Bills long term, while throwing the players a bone short term to get them to ink the deal.

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21 minutes ago, MR8 said:

 

The Kroft and Morse deals LOOK "Lofty" but in reality they are not... Morse's is a bit more firm than Kroft, but both are deals the Bills can get out of fairly easily...

 

Kroft's Deal:

Year Age Base Salary Prorated Bonus Roster Bonus Per Game Roster Bonus Workout Bonus   Guaranteed Salary   Cap
Number
Cap %  
Dead Money & Cap Savings
Cut (pre-June 1)Cut (post-June 1)Trade (pre-June 1)Trade (post-June 1)RestructureExtension 
Total   $10,950,000 $2,400,000 $3,600,000 $1,500,000 $300,000   $3,900,000   $18,406,250    
2019 📝 27 $1,800,000 $800,000 $2,100,000 $500,000 $100,000   $3,900,000   $4,956,250 2.6%  
$6,300,000
($1,343,750)
2020 📝 28 $4,450,000 $800,000 $750,000 $500,000 $100,000   $0   $6,600,000 3.3%  
$1,600,000
$5,000,000
2021 📝 29 $4,700,000 $800,000 $750,000 $500,000 $100,000   $0   $6,850,000 --  
$800,000
$6,050,000

 

So he'a s Cap hit of just $4.95M in 2019, which increases to $6.6M in 2020.  HOWEVER in 2020 if we want to cut him we wear just a $1.6M cap hit with $5M in cap savings.  In 2021, he would be $6.85M against the cap, but if we cut him we wear just a $800K cap hit and save $6.05M.  

 

This deal is by definition a 1 year deal with team option years.  Kroft gets nice guaranteed salary for 2019, but going into 2020 and 2021 there is nothing guaranteed, so he needs to EARN IT.  If he can't stay healthy this year, they can put him on IR and come to an injury settlement, OR just wait until the 2020 league year, release him, and wear a small cap penalty and move on.  It's not the end of the world by any means.

 

Morse Deal:

 

Year Age Base Salary Prorated Bonus Roster Bonus Per Game Roster Bonus Workout Bonus   Guaranteed Salary   Cap
Number
Cap %  
Dead Money & Cap Savings
Cut (pre-June 1)Cut (post-June 1)Trade (pre-June 1)Trade (post-June 1)RestructureExtension 
Total   $25,100,000 $11,000,000 $5,000,000 $3,000,000 $400,000   $9,400,000   $44,187,500    
2019 26 $4,400,000 $2,750,000 $3,000,000 $1,000,000 $100,000   $7,400,000   $10,937,500 5.8%  
$20,400,000
($9,462,500)
2020 📝 27 $6,775,000 $2,750,000 $1,000,000 $1,000,000 $100,000   $2,000,000   $11,625,000 5.8%  
$10,250,000
$1,375,000
2021 28 $7,025,000 $2,750,000 $0 $500,000 $100,000   $0   $10,375,000 --  
$5,500,000
$4,875,000
2022 📝 29 $6,900,000 $2,750,000 $1,000,000 $500,000 $100,000   $0   $11,250,000 --  
$2,750,000
$8,500,000

 

WHAT?!?!?!? $44M??? HIT THE PANIC BUTTON!!!!! Oh, what's that? only $9.4M is guaranteed?

 

The Morse deal is a bit more than a 1 year deal like Kroft's, it's essentially a 2 year deal with SIGNIFICANT protection to the Bills considering the dangers of injuries for Morse.  The first year, this year, 2019, he is $10.9M against the cap, and it would be a SIZEABLE $20M to cut him... well he'd be post June 1st now so it would be $12M in 2019 and $8M in 2020... but I digress.... Sure that's big, we can't get rid of him in 2019, HOWEVER in 2020, his cap hit goes up to $11,625, but if we decided to opt out of the experiment and go in a different direction, he can be release for a $10.25M dead cap hit, and actual cap savings of $1.3M.  

 

After that 2 year period, the Bills realize much larger cap savings if they want to get out from under the Morse deal... in 2021, they could cut him for a $5.5M cap hit and $4.87M savings and in 2022 the final year, we could cut him and only wear the final $2.75M of his signing bonus and save $8.5M

 

While it was a risk to sign Morse to a deal with this much money, they structured it with outs every year following the 2019 season where they would eat cap, but could also get relief if they chose to move on from Morse, or Morse needed to retire etc...

 

If they or Morse himself decides he's done after 2019, we do wear $10M in dead cap, but it comes in a year when we are FLUSH with cap to replace him, and after 2020, that is off the books and we move on.  If he gets healthy and stays a few years, our ability to get out from under the deal only gets better and better. 

 

....

 

People complain about the deal like it's going to kill us in the future, however those same people tend to run around complaining without actually looking at the details of the contract and the ability for the Bills to get out of them.  There's a new sheriff in town and unlike years past, Beane is structuring deals to benefit the Bills long term, while throwing the players a bone short term to get them to ink the deal.

I [heart] any poster willing to do this kind of analysis. 

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1 hour ago, Ittakestime said:

Can people stop saying Long can play center?  Just because a guy was put there and failed miserably, doesn't mean he can play it.

 

They guy can't play it and was not brought here to play it.

 

Exactly right.  Except that he's listed as the backup center.  Oops.

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1 hour ago, Ittakestime said:

 

Can people stop saying Long can play center?  Just because a guy was put there and failed miserably, doesn't mean he can play it.

 

They guy can't play it and was not brought here to play it.

They started practice yesterday with him at center with the 1's

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6 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Exactly right.  Except that he's listed as the backup center.  Oops.

 

And what is Feliciano listed on the depth chart?

 

The depth chart means nothing.  Sal C was on WGR today saying Long has barely played center in TC and the team has no agenda to play him there.  He only played a couple snaps in a pinch during TC.

 

 

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Even if (horror of horrors) he did retire today, I wouldn't blame Beane. Others have rightly said that many players have injury histories, and the only way to get a big name like that is to outbid everyone else. You just have to pull the trigger and hope you're not unlucky with them. Hopefully we get enough games out of him that it's worth it. If he is going to miss some games this season I hope we have him for the run in, because that looks on paper like the really tough part of the schedule and obviously leads into the playoffs.

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1 hour ago, Ittakestime said:

 

Can people stop saying Long can play center?  Just because a guy was put there and failed miserably, doesn't mean he can play it.

 

They guy can't play it and was not brought here to play it.

 

11 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Exactly right.  Except that he's listed as the backup center.  Oops.

 

5 minutes ago, CBD said:

They started practice yesterday with him at center with the 1's

 

JMO but I think Ittakestime is kind of right... to a degree.  What I mean is that Long was an abysmal failure at Center last year, and I agree that he was brought in to Buffalo to play OG.  Where I think the disparity is, McDermott and Beane value guys who can play multiple positions.  While they added Long to be in the mix at OG, I think they always also valued his ability to "in a pinch" play Center.

 

Proof of this is that Long has been listed as a C/G on the Bills roster on their website since he was signed.  He was always viewed as a guy who could play center, but IMO he was supposed to come in and compete for either the starting OG spot, or a back up OG/C spot because of his versatile skill set.

 

Right now Long is playing Center because Bodine was a tire fire, and Morse is obviously not able to play right now.  So out of necessity he's running with the 1s, but I think it's 100% proof he will be on the 53 man either as a starting OG, or a backup OG and backup C.

 

Long Battled through A LOT of injuries last year, and the Jets signed him to a rich C contract last off-season because he has had success at Center.  He's more of an OG by trade and skill, but he CAN Be successful at Center.  

 

Bodine is only still on this roster because there isn't a viable replacement out there to take reps.  Look for the Bills to trade for a Center if they can using some of their depth.  But at this point no team is giving away starting caliber centers or guards. So we're making due with what we have.

 

 

So I guess in summary, Long was brought here to play OG as it's more his natural position, but he can play Center and has been successful there just like he's been a disaster there.  Hopefully Morse can come back and Long can slide back to OG, but for now, he's the best we have and teams aren't just giving away Centers right now.

 

 

We'll be combing cuts for depth on the line, but for now this is the best we can do.

4 minutes ago, RobbRiddick said:

Even if (horror of horrors) he did retire today, I wouldn't blame Beane. Others have rightly said that many players have injury histories, and the only way to get a big name like that is to outbid everyone else. You just have to pull the trigger and hope you're not unlucky with them. Hopefully we get enough games out of him that it's worth it. If he is going to miss some games this season I hope we have him for the run in, because that looks on paper like the really tough part of the schedule and obviously leads into the playoffs.

 

That wouldn't happen IMO.  He would be screwing the Bills over HARD CORE if he just up and retired.  The classy thing to do would be to let the team put him on IR and wait until 2020 so it would be year 2 of his deal and the cap hit would be SIGNIFICANTLY decreased.  Just like what Eric Wood did by waiting until after June 1st to file his retirement paperwork so the cap hit for his retirement would be amortized over 2 years instead of all hitting at once. 

 

It was always a risky signing, but they needed to take a swing! And they did... hopefully he can go, but if not, at least there were out there trying.  And like I said in my previous post, the contract is not the end of the world like people seem to think. 

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If Morse can't go it would seem Feliciano is the starter.  Long then backs him up.

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2 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

If you look back at Morse’s interview with WGR he talks about some extensive testing in the offseason which indicated he didn’t have much recurrence risk.  I presume the front office knew something about that.

 

I think this is a classic case of folks

here thinking have more knowledge that the fromt office.  Beane took what I’d call a calculated gamble perhaps, but he had a lot more data available to make that play.  And if it doesn’t work out then he lost.

I don’t think that’s the case at all. I don’t see anyone playing smartest man in the room. All we can do is look at the facts, why did KC let such an important piece walk away? Did they know his “head” was out of football and he wasn’t in it for the long term. We don’t know the answer but if he never plays a game in Buffalo or retires after say one season...that’s the question many will be asking. Rightfully so. 

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16 minutes ago, CommonCents said:

I don’t think that’s the case at all. I don’t see anyone playing smartest man in the room. All we can do is look at the facts, why did KC let such an important piece walk away? Did they know his “head” was out of football and he wasn’t in it for the long term. We don’t know the answer but if he never plays a game in Buffalo or retires after say one season...that’s the question many will be asking. Rightfully so. 

 

I don't think it counts as looking at the "facts" if you then proceed to posit a series of questions you do not know the answer to. 

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