Zeke now says he will hold out of TC unless he gets a new deal

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

Why would you say that?  They are 32-16 when he starts, and his career passer rating is 96.0 (95.7 in the postseason across three games) with 7.4 ypa and a 66 percent completion rate. He's also had 6 rushing TDs in all three seasons he's played in. He's young, but he has clearly produced at a fairly high level ever since he arrived in the league. 

 

 

He's not a passer.  They will need a better one to make it to the SB.  They have maxed out given his game and all that Zeke and that O-line have done.  There's no 5th gear for that kid.

[Punching Bag]

5 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

The crucial issue (at least with regard to Elliott) that you don't seem to be factoring in is that Dallas minus Elliott will be more likely to lose its games and hence its chances to win the elusive fourth Super Bowl that Jones craves. This is not about money for Jones. He will be 77 in a couple of months and is desperate to win another SB. 

Then Jones should take lesson from Krass and pay more in bribes.

[dave mcbride]

On 7/20/2019 at 6:28 AM, plenzmd1 said:

I may have missed it, but i dont think any site has developed WAR for football yet, but i could be wrong. Having said that, running back would never have that kind of value, they are too dependant on variables outside their control....OL, #s in the box, passing game efficency, etc. Running back numbers do not lead to wins. Looks at the Bills all the years they had a strong running game, hell look at the Giants last year with a    transcendentant talent at the postion

 

Zeke and Gordon have zero leverage...let em sit, they will be back to play their 4th and 5th year..guaranteed. Sucks to be a RB, but the numbers just do bear out playing the postion that takes the most hits, has the highest injuries rates, is the most easily replaced, and has the least effect on winning games.

 

It was funny heard Greeny  arguing the other day that is why you draft a RB high in the first round, pay him his 5 years and move on..and i was dumbfounded by how stupid that statement was. So waste a high round pick on a high injury postion, pay the position at the top of the pay scale for that position, and only plan to have them for the 4 or 5 years...ahh, JETS fans!

Thought you might like this based on your response re: WAR. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/ezekiel-elliott-is-not-worth-the-money-he-wants/

 

@MAJBobby , @BADOLBILZ, @YoloinOhio, @Kirby Jackson, @thebandit27 - interesting piece above. Curious to know what you think.

Edited July 24, 2019 by dave mcbride

[MAJBobby]

2 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

Thought you might like this based on your response re: WAR. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/ezekiel-elliott-is-not-worth-the-money-he-wants/

 

@MAJBobby , @BADOLBILZ, @YoloinOhio, @Kirby Jackson, @thebandit27 - interesting piece above. Curious to know what you think.

 

I will never advocate paying a RB the value is JUST NOT there 

[CowgirlsFan]

Less than 24 hours and we'll know.

[Kirby Jackson]

16 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

Thought you might like this based on your response re: WAR. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/ezekiel-elliott-is-not-worth-the-money-he-wants/

 

@MAJBobby , @BADOLBILZ, @YoloinOhio, @Kirby Jackson, @thebandit27 - interesting piece above. Curious to know what you think.

Zeke is probably my favorite Buckeye player ever. He has the entire game and is one of the few backs in the NFL that the offense can run through. This is because of his well-rounded skill set & ability to be a workhorse in terms of touches. I’d say McCaffrey is like that as is Saquon and maybe Gordon. David Johnson, Todd Gurley and Le’Veon have done that too but I’m not sure if they are there in 2019. That’s part of the reason that I’d tread carefully before paying any RB. As much as I believe Zeke is one of the best players in football, life comes at you fast as an RB. A year ago we might have said the same thing about Todd Gurley and now we don’t even know if he’s still good. It’s a risky proposition to tie up a lot of guarantees in that position. 

[CowgirlsFan]

Regretfully Zeke did NOT travel with the team today.

 

And....now the wait until tomorrow.

[Turk71]

Cowboys have Zeke under contract for two more years before having to use the franchise tag. The Cowboys don't need to extend his contract yet and Zeke has no leverage imo, if he wants to sit out he still has to play two more years before he can play elsewhere. I think they should extend Prescott now and tell Zeke he has to wait.

[CowgirlsFan]

Tomorrow is here.

 

Still no Zeke ?

 

And the drama continues. 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

...does anybody seriously give a rat's azz about this clown?....would certainly be a good process fit (cough)...has been a model citizen(BIGGER cough)...and now expects an extension with two years left on his original deal (CHOKING COUGH)...he's all yours Jurrah........

[Doc Brown]

On 7/23/2019 at 1:12 PM, dave mcbride said:

The crucial issue (at least with regard to Elliott) that you don't seem to be factoring in is that Dallas minus Elliott will be more likely to lose its games and hence its chances to win the elusive fourth Super Bowl that Jones craves. This is not about money for Jones. He will be 77 in a couple of months and is desperate to win another SB. 

That's why I think Zeke gets a deal done before the season.  The Cowboys "America's team" hasn't won a title or been in a Superbowl since '96?  He's seen a lot of his fellow owners die relatively recently (Pat Bowlen, Al Davis, Bob McNair, Paul Allen) and he's not getting any younger.

[dave mcbride]

On 7/23/2019 at 1:21 PM, MAJBobby said:

 

I absolutely am factoring it it.  Fact is their QB needs to be put on a new deal before a RB.  So that should be Jones Priority because they are not sniffing another Super Bowl without a QB.

Consider this, though: https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/bs-xpm-1993-09-17-1993260192-story.html

 

That happened right after the Cowboys lost to the Bills in Dallas. 

Edited July 27, 2019 by dave mcbride

[MAJBobby]

4 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Consider this, though: https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/bs-xpm-1993-09-17-1993260192-story.html

 

That happened right after the Cowboys lost to the Bills in Dallas. 

 

Different Era. And know With Theo Riddick cut sign him and you have your Zeke holdout insurance. While not as Dynamic will provide much better value than leap frogging Gurleys Contract. 

[aristocrat]

 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

....and the Zeke plot thickens.....quite the prize.......

 

 

Lawsuit accuses Cowboys, police of covering up severity of Ezekiel Elliott car accident

Posted by Mike Florio on July 30, 2019, 4:57 PM EDT

 

When the holdout of running back Ezekiel Elliott became official, Cowboys owner Jerry Jones mentioned his support of Elliott in connection with his 2017 suspension. There’s another incident that could comes to mind for Jones, if the allegations of a new lawsuit are true.

 

Via TMZ.com, the civil action filed regarding a January 2017 car accident involving Elliott claims that the Cowboys “conspired with the Frisco Police Dept. to cover up the severity of the accident to assure that Elliott’s health would not be placed in question before their playoff game.”

 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/07/30/lawsuit-accuses-cowboys-police-of-covering-up-severity-of-ezekiel-elliott-car-accident/

[Mr. WEO]

He'll probably get his money.  Bad move.  This Offense has gotten steadily worse with yard and points production with a great O-line, Prescott and Elliot over the past 3 years.

 

2 playoff games, 2 losses.   This combo will never get them to the NFCC.  Pay Elliot all that money, for what?  They need a new offensive philosophy.  That will require a new and better QB. 

 

The Cowboys are the Giants with a better Defense.

[Big C]

On 7/25/2019 at 4:51 AM, Kirby Jackson said:

Zeke is probably my favorite Buckeye player ever. He has the entire game and is one of the few backs in the NFL that the offense can run through. This is because of his well-rounded skill set & ability to be a workhorse in terms of touches. I’d say McCaffrey is like that as is Saquon and maybe Gordon. David Johnson, Todd Gurley and Le’Veon have done that too but I’m not sure if they are there in 2019. That’s part of the reason that I’d tread carefully before paying any RB. As much as I believe Zeke is one of the best players in football, life comes at you fast as an RB. A year ago we might have said the same thing about Todd Gurley and now we don’t even know if he’s still good. It’s a risky proposition to tie up a lot of guarantees in that position. 

 

Little late to this post, but good thoughts all around. The Gurley contract looms large over the next crop of dudes. Gordon probably wants something like that but has produced far less than Gurley to date. And now that Gurley might be permanently damaged, he won't be living up to that contract. Zeke seems a little more built to last, but who knows? Look at his Dallas predecessor DeMarco Murray. 

 

Backs are simply the most replaceable position in the league.

[JoPar_v2]

4 hours ago, Big C said:

 

Little late to this post, but good thoughts all around. The Gurley contract looms large over the next crop of dudes. Gordon probably wants something like that but has produced far less than Gurley to date. And now that Gurley might be permanently damaged, he won't be living up to that contract. Zeke seems a little more built to last, but who knows? Look at his Dallas predecessor DeMarco Murray. 

 

Backs are simply the most replaceable position in the league.

 

Doubtful these current holdouts are going to get Gurley money - I think there is prevailing thought in the league that the Rams overpaid. Bell tried to get it and failed. Gurley’s potential chronic knee condition is probably making some front offices balk as well. Good luck to Elliott and Gordon, but they may have to adjust their expectations.

[Thurman#1]

On 7/16/2019 at 3:17 AM, nucci said:

But you could always get a RB in the later rounds.............so I've been told

 

 

Not so much after the draft, though.

 

I don't think RBs need camp all that badly. I love to see people hold the Cowgirls over a barrel. I hope they pay him too much.

[Mr. WEO]

9 hours ago, JoPar_v2 said:

 

Doubtful these current holdouts are going to get Gurley money - I think there is prevailing thought in the league that the Rams overpaid. Bell tried to get it and failed. Gurley’s potential chronic knee condition is probably making some front offices balk as well. Good luck to Elliott and Gordon, but they may have to adjust their expectations.

 

Gordon sys he is a top 5 back and the Chargers just offered him top 5 money and he turned it down.  He's on Gordon Island now. That team is not going to up the offer.

[aristocrat]

https://twitter.com/wingoz/status/1158725187531104256?s=20

[Canadian Bills Fan]

Saw a news alert that the Cowboys have submitted long term offers to Zeke, Dak and Cooper

[Mr. WEO]

Cowboys are in a tough spot.

 

Their QB is so mediocre, Zeke knows he can hold the owner hostage even though he has 2 years left on his current contract.  Plus Cooper will be looking for top 5 WR money for his (maybe) top 25 play.

 

Sucks to be jerry right now..

[from_dunkirk]

On 7/27/2019 at 12:46 AM, Doc Brown said:

That's why I think Zeke gets a deal done before the season.  The Cowboys "America's team" hasn't won a title or been in a Superbowl since '96?  He's seen a lot of his fellow owners die relatively recently (Pat Bowlen, Al Davis, Bob McNair, Paul Allen) and he's not getting any younger.

 

You're forgetting a certain Hall of Fame owner.

[Doc Brown]

9 minutes ago, from_dunkirk said:

 

You're forgetting a certain Hall of Fame owner.

Fine.  Add Dan Rooney and Ralph to the list.

[MR8]

This is really going to be a hard situation for the NFL.  The rookie wage scale and rookie contracts were a major part of the last CBA, and they're already negotiating the next CBA.  IF they start to change rookie deals after just 2-3 years and give guys massive contracts, it's going to set the precendent for all rookies to just say after a year or two "Okay I want a massive raise or I won't play."  

 

Of course some guys have more leverage than others, Tremaine Edmunds couldn't just hold out now for more money... but what would stop Matt Milano who has absolutely out performed his rookie deal?

 

For the rookie wage scale to be a success, the league has to enforce it... they can't give in and allow players to just stand up and say "NOPE! GIMME MORE MONEY!"  

 

The league needs to get a new clause with a tiered "Negotiation" time tables for different rounds ... What I mean is players cannot extend their contract until after the 4th year for first round picks (provided they exercised the 5th year option following the 3rd year).  If they don't pick up the option for the player after the 3rd season, they can negotiate a long term deal after the 3rd year.  For 2nd and 3rd round players they couldn't negotiate before the 3rd year as there would still be a 4th year for those contracts, but there is no option for a 5th.... and so on for the different rounds.

 

This is obviously not a final plan, but there needs to be something to prevent players from subverting the rookie wage scale going forward or this precedent could catch on and it will be a free for all for all rookies who are good or out perform their deal early.

[C.Biscuit97]

11 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

Cowboys are in a tough spot.

 

Their QB is so mediocre, Zeke knows he can hold the owner hostage even though he has 2 years left on his current contract.  Plus Cooper will be looking for top 5 WR money for his (maybe) top 25 play.

 

Sucks to be jerry right now..

At least, Jerry’s face is only 10 years old.  

 

But all those guys Will get paid.  Elliott is a chipmunk who is a moron off the field but he is their best player.  

1 hour ago, MR8 said:

This is really going to be a hard situation for the NFL.  The rookie wage scale and rookie contracts were a major part of the last CBA, and they're already negotiating the next CBA.  IF they start to change rookie deals after just 2-3 years and give guys massive contracts, it's going to set the precendent for all rookies to just say after a year or two "Okay I want a massive raise or I won't play."  

 

Of course some guys have more leverage than others, Tremaine Edmunds couldn't just hold out now for more money... but what would stop Matt Milano who has absolutely out performed his rookie deal?

 

For the rookie wage scale to be a success, the league has to enforce it... they can't give in and allow players to just stand up and say "NOPE! GIMME MORE MONEY!"  

 

The league needs to get a new clause with a tiered "Negotiation" time tables for different rounds ... What I mean is players cannot extend their contract until after the 4th year for first round picks (provided they exercised the 5th year option following the 3rd year).  If they don't pick up the option for the player after the 3rd season, they can negotiate a long term deal after the 3rd year.  For 2nd and 3rd round players they couldn't negotiate before the 3rd year as there would still be a 4th year for those contracts, but there is no option for a 5th.... and so on for the different rounds.

 

This is obviously not a final plan, but there needs to be something to prevent players from subverting the rookie wage scale going forward or this precedent could catch on and it will be a free for all for all rookies who are good or out perform their deal early.

What about non guarantee contracts and cutting players the second they get hurt or are deemed replaceable?  I’d rather see the millionaires who are putting their body on the line get paid more than the billionaire sitting in a press box. 

 

 

[MR8]

7 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

 

What about non guarantee contracts and cutting players the second they get hurt or are deemed replaceable?  I’d rather see the millionaires who are putting their body on the line get paid more than the billionaire sitting in a press box. 

 

 

 

Rookie contracts are guaranteed money my man.  

[whatdrought]

Why not treat holding out like breach of contract and sue the players? If I was an owner I’d sue them for every dollar I had paid them until that point. Any other business if you sign a contract and then just decide “nah...” there are consequences beyond losing future assets. 

 

 

[mannc]

12 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

Cowboys are in a tough spot.

 

Their QB is so mediocre, Zeke knows he can hold the owner hostage even though he has 2 years left on his current contract.  Plus Cooper will be looking for top 5 WR money for his (maybe) top 25 play.

 

Sucks to be jerry right now..

How is Dak “so mediocre”?  He’s pretty clearly a top 10 guy,  although probably not yet in the elite category.

[Mr. WEO]

25 minutes ago, mannc said:

How is Dak “so mediocre”?  He’s pretty clearly a top 10 guy,  although probably not yet in the elite category.

 

Top 10 at what?

 

He's a low wattage guy who will never be asked to win a game with his passing as long as Zeke is there.  He's a 3500 yd, 22 TD, 8-9 int a year game manager--really, he's indistinguishable from Alex Smith.

[Victory Formation]

Zeke should be the highest paid RB, some may laugh at me for this but I think the case could easily be made.

 

Dak should get top 10 money. One would argue that Garoppolo got 100m and Dak is far far superior to Jimmy. QBs always get overpaid and to be honest, I take care of Dak before anyone else if I'm Jerry Jones.

 

Cooper is a guy I'd let play out his deal, he is a streaky player, if he has another solid year, franchise him and extend him at that point.

 

1. Dak

2. Zeke

3. Cooper

 

In that order.

[mannc]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Top 10 at what?

 

He's a low wattage guy who will never be asked to win a game with his passing as long as Zeke is there.  He's a 3500 yd, 22 TD, 8-9 int a year game manager--really, he's indistinguishable from Alex Smith.

Rubbish.  What QB has put up better numbers his first three years in the league?  Definitely not Alex Smith....

[Buffalo Junction]

4 hours ago, MR8 said:

This is really going to be a hard situation for the NFL.  The rookie wage scale and rookie contracts were a major part of the last CBA, and they're already negotiating the next CBA.  IF they start to change rookie deals after just 2-3 years and give guys massive contracts, it's going to set the precendent for all rookies to just say after a year or two "Okay I want a massive raise or I won't play."  

 

Of course some guys have more leverage than others, Tremaine Edmunds couldn't just hold out now for more money... but what would stop Matt Milano who has absolutely out performed his rookie deal?

 

For the rookie wage scale to be a success, the league has to enforce it... they can't give in and allow players to just stand up and say "NOPE! GIMME MORE MONEY!"  

 

The league needs to get a new clause with a tiered "Negotiation" time tables for different rounds ... What I mean is players cannot extend their contract until after the 4th year for first round picks (provided they exercised the 5th year option following the 3rd year).  If they don't pick up the option for the player after the 3rd season, they can negotiate a long term deal after the 3rd year.  For 2nd and 3rd round players they couldn't negotiate before the 3rd year as there would still be a 4th year for those contracts, but there is no option for a 5th.... and so on for the different rounds.

 

This is obviously not a final plan, but there needs to be something to prevent players from subverting the rookie wage scale going forward or this precedent could catch on and it will be a free for all for all rookies who are good or out perform their deal early.

Might work, but they’d have to compromise by increasing RFA contract amounts and performance escalators for late round picks that really play well. 

[nucci]

3 hours ago, whatdrought said:

Why not treat holding out like breach of contract and sue the players? If I was an owner I’d sue them for every dollar I had paid them until that point. Any other business if you sign a contract and then just decide “nah...” there are consequences beyond losing future assets. 

 

 

The NFL and other major sports are not like any other business. Most people in this country who have a job usually don't have a contract. 

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, mannc said:

Rubbish.  What QB has put up better numbers his first three years in the league?  Definitely not Alex Smith....

 

Dak at this point in his career is Alex Smith (you know Smith didn't start all games his first 3 seasons)  at his prime as well.  And that's with that top O-line in Dallas, and Zeke.  And Cooper. 

 

To answer your question:  Carr, Goff (if he started his full rookie year, o doubt), Newton, Winston, Tannehill...

 

Let's make this easy:  If Mahomes was the Cowboys QB, do you think Jones would be sweating out the Zeke demands right now?  Of course not. 

 

 

[whatdrought]

1 minute ago, nucci said:

The NFL and other major sports are not like any other business. Most people in this country who have a job usually don't have a contract. 

 

Im aware of that, obviously. But it’s still a breach of contract. When teams breach contract, (cutting a player) they pay whatever penalty is outlined in the contract (usually just giving them the guaranteed money). I just don’t understand how players get off with holding out.

[nucci]

1 minute ago, whatdrought said:

 

Im aware of that, obviously. But it’s still a breach of contract. When teams breach contract, (cutting a player) they pay whatever penalty is outlined in the contract (usually just giving them the guaranteed money). I just don’t understand how players get off with holding out.

Because they are usually star players and needed by the team. The backup C won't hold out...only players who think they have a bit of leverage. There are penalties for holding out but just never collected. Not a perfect situation

[whatdrought]

10 minutes ago, nucci said:

Because they are usually star players and needed by the team. The backup C won't hold out...only players who think they have a bit of leverage. There are penalties for holding out but just never collected. Not a perfect situation

 

Yeah, that’s the issue. I understand wanting to get paid a fair price, but don’t sign a contract unless you’re willing to keep it. Sign a 1 year deal each year and earn a raise if that’s what you want to do, otherwise, play the contract you signed. It’s all just a ploy to get out of training camp and work. 

[nucci]

11 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

 

Yeah, that’s the issue. I understand wanting to get paid a fair price, but don’t sign a contract unless you’re willing to keep it. Sign a 1 year deal each year and earn a raise if that’s what you want to do, otherwise, play the contract you signed. It’s all just a ploy to get out of training camp and work. 

Rookie draft picks don't have much of a choice and most would not sign a 1 year deal. That's also not helpful to the team