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Zeke now says he will hold out of TC unless he gets a new deal

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Saw a news alert that the Cowboys have submitted long term offers to Zeke, Dak and Cooper

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Cowboys are in a tough spot.

 

Their QB is so mediocre, Zeke knows he can hold the owner hostage even though he has 2 years left on his current contract.  Plus Cooper will be looking for top 5 WR money for his (maybe) top 25 play.

 

Sucks to be jerry right now..

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On 7/27/2019 at 12:46 AM, Doc Brown said:

That's why I think Zeke gets a deal done before the season.  The Cowboys "America's team" hasn't won a title or been in a Superbowl since '96?  He's seen a lot of his fellow owners die relatively recently (Pat Bowlen, Al Davis, Bob McNair, Paul Allen) and he's not getting any younger.

 

You're forgetting a certain Hall of Fame owner.

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9 minutes ago, from_dunkirk said:

 

You're forgetting a certain Hall of Fame owner.

Fine.  Add Dan Rooney and Ralph to the list.

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This is really going to be a hard situation for the NFL.  The rookie wage scale and rookie contracts were a major part of the last CBA, and they're already negotiating the next CBA.  IF they start to change rookie deals after just 2-3 years and give guys massive contracts, it's going to set the precendent for all rookies to just say after a year or two "Okay I want a massive raise or I won't play."  

 

Of course some guys have more leverage than others, Tremaine Edmunds couldn't just hold out now for more money... but what would stop Matt Milano who has absolutely out performed his rookie deal?

 

For the rookie wage scale to be a success, the league has to enforce it... they can't give in and allow players to just stand up and say "NOPE! GIMME MORE MONEY!"  

 

The league needs to get a new clause with a tiered "Negotiation" time tables for different rounds ... What I mean is players cannot extend their contract until after the 4th year for first round picks (provided they exercised the 5th year option following the 3rd year).  If they don't pick up the option for the player after the 3rd season, they can negotiate a long term deal after the 3rd year.  For 2nd and 3rd round players they couldn't negotiate before the 3rd year as there would still be a 4th year for those contracts, but there is no option for a 5th.... and so on for the different rounds.

 

This is obviously not a final plan, but there needs to be something to prevent players from subverting the rookie wage scale going forward or this precedent could catch on and it will be a free for all for all rookies who are good or out perform their deal early.

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11 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

Cowboys are in a tough spot.

 

Their QB is so mediocre, Zeke knows he can hold the owner hostage even though he has 2 years left on his current contract.  Plus Cooper will be looking for top 5 WR money for his (maybe) top 25 play.

 

Sucks to be jerry right now..

At least, Jerry’s face is only 10 years old.  

 

But all those guys Will get paid.  Elliott is a chipmunk who is a moron off the field but he is their best player.  

1 hour ago, MR8 said:

This is really going to be a hard situation for the NFL.  The rookie wage scale and rookie contracts were a major part of the last CBA, and they're already negotiating the next CBA.  IF they start to change rookie deals after just 2-3 years and give guys massive contracts, it's going to set the precendent for all rookies to just say after a year or two "Okay I want a massive raise or I won't play."  

 

Of course some guys have more leverage than others, Tremaine Edmunds couldn't just hold out now for more money... but what would stop Matt Milano who has absolutely out performed his rookie deal?

 

For the rookie wage scale to be a success, the league has to enforce it... they can't give in and allow players to just stand up and say "NOPE! GIMME MORE MONEY!"  

 

The league needs to get a new clause with a tiered "Negotiation" time tables for different rounds ... What I mean is players cannot extend their contract until after the 4th year for first round picks (provided they exercised the 5th year option following the 3rd year).  If they don't pick up the option for the player after the 3rd season, they can negotiate a long term deal after the 3rd year.  For 2nd and 3rd round players they couldn't negotiate before the 3rd year as there would still be a 4th year for those contracts, but there is no option for a 5th.... and so on for the different rounds.

 

This is obviously not a final plan, but there needs to be something to prevent players from subverting the rookie wage scale going forward or this precedent could catch on and it will be a free for all for all rookies who are good or out perform their deal early.

What about non guarantee contracts and cutting players the second they get hurt or are deemed replaceable?  I’d rather see the millionaires who are putting their body on the line get paid more than the billionaire sitting in a press box. 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

 

What about non guarantee contracts and cutting players the second they get hurt or are deemed replaceable?  I’d rather see the millionaires who are putting their body on the line get paid more than the billionaire sitting in a press box. 

 

 

 

Rookie contracts are guaranteed money my man.  

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Why not treat holding out like breach of contract and sue the players? If I was an owner I’d sue them for every dollar I had paid them until that point. Any other business if you sign a contract and then just decide “nah...” there are consequences beyond losing future assets. 

 

 

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12 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

Cowboys are in a tough spot.

 

Their QB is so mediocre, Zeke knows he can hold the owner hostage even though he has 2 years left on his current contract.  Plus Cooper will be looking for top 5 WR money for his (maybe) top 25 play.

 

Sucks to be jerry right now..

How is Dak “so mediocre”?  He’s pretty clearly a top 10 guy,  although probably not yet in the elite category.

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25 minutes ago, mannc said:

How is Dak “so mediocre”?  He’s pretty clearly a top 10 guy,  although probably not yet in the elite category.

 

Top 10 at what?

 

He's a low wattage guy who will never be asked to win a game with his passing as long as Zeke is there.  He's a 3500 yd, 22 TD, 8-9 int a year game manager--really, he's indistinguishable from Alex Smith.

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Zeke should be the highest paid RB, some may laugh at me for this but I think the case could easily be made.

 

Dak should get top 10 money. One would argue that Garoppolo got 100m and Dak is far far superior to Jimmy. QBs always get overpaid and to be honest, I take care of Dak before anyone else if I'm Jerry Jones.

 

Cooper is a guy I'd let play out his deal, he is a streaky player, if he has another solid year, franchise him and extend him at that point.

 

1. Dak

2. Zeke

3. Cooper

 

In that order.

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1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Top 10 at what?

 

He's a low wattage guy who will never be asked to win a game with his passing as long as Zeke is there.  He's a 3500 yd, 22 TD, 8-9 int a year game manager--really, he's indistinguishable from Alex Smith.

Rubbish.  What QB has put up better numbers his first three years in the league?  Definitely not Alex Smith....

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4 hours ago, MR8 said:

This is really going to be a hard situation for the NFL.  The rookie wage scale and rookie contracts were a major part of the last CBA, and they're already negotiating the next CBA.  IF they start to change rookie deals after just 2-3 years and give guys massive contracts, it's going to set the precendent for all rookies to just say after a year or two "Okay I want a massive raise or I won't play."  

 

Of course some guys have more leverage than others, Tremaine Edmunds couldn't just hold out now for more money... but what would stop Matt Milano who has absolutely out performed his rookie deal?

 

For the rookie wage scale to be a success, the league has to enforce it... they can't give in and allow players to just stand up and say "NOPE! GIMME MORE MONEY!"  

 

The league needs to get a new clause with a tiered "Negotiation" time tables for different rounds ... What I mean is players cannot extend their contract until after the 4th year for first round picks (provided they exercised the 5th year option following the 3rd year).  If they don't pick up the option for the player after the 3rd season, they can negotiate a long term deal after the 3rd year.  For 2nd and 3rd round players they couldn't negotiate before the 3rd year as there would still be a 4th year for those contracts, but there is no option for a 5th.... and so on for the different rounds.

 

This is obviously not a final plan, but there needs to be something to prevent players from subverting the rookie wage scale going forward or this precedent could catch on and it will be a free for all for all rookies who are good or out perform their deal early.

Might work, but they’d have to compromise by increasing RFA contract amounts and performance escalators for late round picks that really play well. 

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3 hours ago, whatdrought said:

Why not treat holding out like breach of contract and sue the players? If I was an owner I’d sue them for every dollar I had paid them until that point. Any other business if you sign a contract and then just decide “nah...” there are consequences beyond losing future assets. 

 

 

The NFL and other major sports are not like any other business. Most people in this country who have a job usually don't have a contract. 

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1 hour ago, mannc said:

Rubbish.  What QB has put up better numbers his first three years in the league?  Definitely not Alex Smith....

 

Dak at this point in his career is Alex Smith (you know Smith didn't start all games his first 3 seasons)  at his prime as well.  And that's with that top O-line in Dallas, and Zeke.  And Cooper. 

 

To answer your question:  Carr, Goff (if he started his full rookie year, o doubt), Newton, Winston, Tannehill...

 

Let's make this easy:  If Mahomes was the Cowboys QB, do you think Jones would be sweating out the Zeke demands right now?  Of course not. 

 

 

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1 minute ago, nucci said:

The NFL and other major sports are not like any other business. Most people in this country who have a job usually don't have a contract. 

 

Im aware of that, obviously. But it’s still a breach of contract. When teams breach contract, (cutting a player) they pay whatever penalty is outlined in the contract (usually just giving them the guaranteed money). I just don’t understand how players get off with holding out.

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1 minute ago, whatdrought said:

 

Im aware of that, obviously. But it’s still a breach of contract. When teams breach contract, (cutting a player) they pay whatever penalty is outlined in the contract (usually just giving them the guaranteed money). I just don’t understand how players get off with holding out.

Because they are usually star players and needed by the team. The backup C won't hold out...only players who think they have a bit of leverage. There are penalties for holding out but just never collected. Not a perfect situation

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10 minutes ago, nucci said:

Because they are usually star players and needed by the team. The backup C won't hold out...only players who think they have a bit of leverage. There are penalties for holding out but just never collected. Not a perfect situation

 

Yeah, that’s the issue. I understand wanting to get paid a fair price, but don’t sign a contract unless you’re willing to keep it. Sign a 1 year deal each year and earn a raise if that’s what you want to do, otherwise, play the contract you signed. It’s all just a ploy to get out of training camp and work. 

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11 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

 

Yeah, that’s the issue. I understand wanting to get paid a fair price, but don’t sign a contract unless you’re willing to keep it. Sign a 1 year deal each year and earn a raise if that’s what you want to do, otherwise, play the contract you signed. It’s all just a ploy to get out of training camp and work. 

Rookie draft picks don't have much of a choice and most would not sign a 1 year deal. That's also not helpful to the team

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10 minutes ago, nucci said:

Rookie draft picks don't have much of a choice and most would not sign a 1 year deal. That's also not helpful to the team

 

I know- there’s a lot of issues to deal with, im just making the point about hold outs in general. 

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5 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

 

I know- there’s a lot of issues to deal with, im just making the point about hold outs in general. 

I get it...it's frustrating

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, MR8 said:

This is really going to be a hard situation for the NFL.  The rookie wage scale and rookie contracts were a major part of the last CBA, and they're already negotiating the next CBA.  IF they start to change rookie deals after just 2-3 years and give guys massive contracts, it's going to set the precendent for all rookies to just say after a year or two "Okay I want a massive raise or I won't play."  

 

Of course some guys have more leverage than others, Tremaine Edmunds couldn't just hold out now for more money... but what would stop Matt Milano who has absolutely out performed his rookie deal?

 

For the rookie wage scale to be a success, the league has to enforce it... they can't give in and allow players to just stand up and say "NOPE! GIMME MORE MONEY!"  

 

The league needs to get a new clause with a tiered "Negotiation" time tables for different rounds ... What I mean is players cannot extend their contract until after the 4th year for first round picks (provided they exercised the 5th year option following the 3rd year).  If they don't pick up the option for the player after the 3rd season, they can negotiate a long term deal after the 3rd year.  For 2nd and 3rd round players they couldn't negotiate before the 3rd year as there would still be a 4th year for those contracts, but there is no option for a 5th.... and so on for the different rounds.

 

This is obviously not a final plan, but there needs to be something to prevent players from subverting the rookie wage scale going forward or this precedent could catch on and it will be a free for all for all rookies who are good or out perform their deal early.

 

I understand your point, however, I also don't think its as quite as menacing as you think it is.

 

For example, LeVeon Bell just sat out a season...he literally will make less money over his career because of that decision.  His deal was no where near what he sat out to try and get, he will never recoup the lost season of earnings and we still haven't seen what kind of impact it might negatively have on him missing a year.  

 

Not to mention, these guys miss out on stats for their legacy, potential extra earnings from endorsement deals, losing their job or seeing reduced roles when they come back, etc.  I mean Bell is a poster child for this right now, Conner came in and proved they didnt need him.  No one saw Conner coming in and making anyone forget about Bell the way that he did.  He may not be as good as Bell, but he was close enough at a fraction of the price.  Dont know if there is a guy on the Cowboys roster that impact them the way Conner did, but in San Diego their certainly is and Gordon is in jeopardy of losing his job all together if he lets the other RBs come in and help them realize they dont need to pay Gordon some crazy money.  

 

Once out on the open market, RB's like this aren't going to get what they want...Bell an Elite RB had very little market interest, even with teams with cap room and even his own Team, The Jets, were split on him and the HC didnt want to sign him for that money.  And he had to take less money than what he sat out for.

 

So...in the end, I think the player is risking a LOT to make a move like this and the only ones who will really try this kind of move are the few top end guys who think they can get mega deals.  

 

If someone like Milano does it, sure he deserves a raise, but he hasn't played at a level to warrant sitting out for some top of the market deal for a LB or anywhere close to that.  He had one good partial season then got hurt.  He still has to prove he's back form the injury.  But lets say he never got hurt and finished last season the way he was playing before he got hurt.  He still wont have the leverage to hold out for some crazy deal and the raise he would ask for would probably be more palatable and of interest to Beane to lock up a young player on a good deal long term.  

 

For me, this situation is going to limited to more top of the their position type young players at most, and even then they will have great risk is going down this path as it already worked out POORLY for the guy who started this trend in Bell.  

Edited by Alphadawg7
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4 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I understand your point, however, I also don't think its as quite as menacing as you think it is.

 

For example, LeVeon Bell just sat out a season...he literally will make less money over his career because of that decision.  His deal was no where near what he sat out to try and get, he will never recoup the lost season of earnings and we still haven't seen what kind of impact it might negatively have on him missing a year.  

 

Not to mention, these guys miss out on stats for their legacy, potential extra earnings from endorsement deals, losing their job or seeing reduced roles when they come back, etc.  I mean Bell is a poster child for this right now, Conner came in and proved they didnt need him.  No one saw Conner coming in and making anyone forget about Bell the way that he did.  He may not be as good as Bell, but he was close enough at a fraction of the price.  Dont know if there is a guy on the Cowboys roster that impact them the way Conner did, but in San Diego their certainly is and Gordon is in jeopardy of losing his job all together if he lets them come in and help them realize they dont need to pay Gordon some crazy money.  

 

Once out on the open market, RB's like this aren't going to get what they want...Bell an Elite RB had very little market interest, even with teams with cap room and even his own Team, The Jets, were split on him and the HC didnt want to sign him for that money.  

 

So...in the end, I think the player is risking a LOT to make a move like this and the only ones who will really try this kind of move are the few top end guys who think they can get mega deals.  If someone like Milano does it, sure he deserves a raise, but he hasn't played at a level to warrant sitting out for some top of the market deal for a LB or anywhere close to that.  He had one good partial season then got hurt.  He still has to prove he's back form the injury.  But lets say he never got hurt and finished last season the way he was playing before he got hurt.  He still wont have the leverage to hold out for some crazy deal and the raise he would ask for would probably be more palatable and of interest to Beane to do to lock up a young player on a good deal long term.  

 

For me, this situation is going to limited to more top of the their position type young players at most, and even then they will have great risk is going down this path as it already worked out POORLY for the guy who started this trend in Bell.  

You could be right, but then again you keep saying it worked out poorly for Bell, and yet 2 RBs are doing it this year anyways.  If the lesson learned by these guys was that it wasn't worth it, they wouldn't be doing it right now.  Let's also not forget OBJ and Brown were in the same boat too, so thats what 4 top players in the NFL doing it in the same off-season. Sure it's only the top players who can do it, but the top players are the power brokers because without them teams don't win games.  If you give them the ability to set their own pricing, not honor deals, leave whenever they want, teams are left with no recourse and no way to build. 

 

It's starting to look more and more like Basketball where players can sign deals and then demand trades anyways.  It creates the bad precedent of teams allowing players to not honor deals, so why bother signing them?  

 

I don't claim to have all the answers, but the more this happens I see it spiraling not getting better. 

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16 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

Cowboys are in a tough spot.

 

Their QB is so mediocre, Zeke knows he can hold the owner hostage even though he has 2 years left on his current contract.  Plus Cooper will be looking for top 5 WR money for his (maybe) top 25 play.

 

Sucks to be jerry right now..

 

Cooper was a top 5 guy in Dallas...not the last few years in Oakland, but I will give him credit, he really looked like an impact player in Dallas.  

 

Which sucks even more for Dallas because Cooper is going to want to get paid on that small sample size and expect his drops problem and lack of consistency over the previous stop in Oakland to be overlooked.  

 

So which Cooper is Dallas getting when they have to pay him?  That will be the question.  Dak looked like a better QB too with Cooper...so if I am Cowboys, I pay Zeke before I pay Dak and Cooper as I want to see a full season of those guys together before I feel comfortable laying big contracts on either of those guys right now.  They have had good moments but also too many meh or bad moments to warrant top tier deals at this stage IMO.  

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