Book tells of up-and-down negotiations that led to Bills stadium lease deal

[PromoTheRobot]

https://buffalonews.com/2019/07/15/poloncarz-book-tells-of-up-and-down-negotiations-that-led-to-bills-2013-stadium-lease-deal/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_campaign=good-morning-buffalo

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

This is wild.  According to this, it was the STATE, and NOT Ralph Wilson, that required the $400 Billion non-relocation buy-out.  

 

Ralph got alot of credit for that term. Turns out he should not have. 

[Cynical]

Two things stand out to me:

 

1)  "... when two things became clear to the Cuomo administration: The Bills had no interest in a new stadium, and the county had already determined that a new stadium in downtown would not work for a host of financial and logistical reasons. "

I wonder if these reasons still exist today.

 

2) " Poloncarz said then-Bills President Russ Brandon told him that penalty ultimately kept many prospective owners – Poloncarz knew of about 10 – from placing bids on the Bills when Wilson died in March 2014. "

 

Without that relocation fee, the Bills were good as gone upon Wilson's death.

[Beast]

13 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

This is wild.  According to this, it was the STATE, and NOT Ralph Wilson, that required the $400 Billion non-relocation buy-out.  

 

Ralph got alot of credit for that term. Turns out he should not have. 

 

Agreed. At least that is the way I remember it....that Ralph was a hero for that. I guess he did have to agree to it? 

 

I am really interested to see how the Democratic ran New York State will deal with Terry Pegula, a man who made he fortune from Fracking. 

9 minutes ago, Cynical said:

Two things stand out to me:

 

1)  "... when two things became clear to the Cuomo administration: The Bills had no interest in a new stadium, and the county had already determined that a new stadium in downtown would not work for a host of financial and logistical reasons. "

I wonder if these reasons still exist today.

 

2) " Poloncarz said then-Bills President Russ Brandon told him that penalty ultimately kept many prospective owners – Poloncarz knew of about 10 – from placing bids on the Bills when Wilson died in March 2014. "

 

Without that relocation fee, the Bills were good as gone upon Wilson's death.

 

I would say it is totally different with Pegula so firmly entrenched in the Downtown area.  Ralph Wilson wasn’t and had no reason to make something like that work given his financial situation and his age.

[Jerry Jabber]

"Poloncarz said that meant the Bills anticipated the likelihood that the team would move after Wilson's death. That's part of the reason the Bills didn't seek a huge sum for stadium renovations or a new stadium, he said."

 

The scene was the Millennium Hotel in Cheektowaga on Oct. 2, 2012. When Glaser, the key state negotiator, dropped the $400 million relocation "bomb" on Littman, the Bills CFO, "Jeff was shocked and angry," Poloncarz wrote.

 

I remember thinking at the time that Ralph Wilson, Russ Brandon, etc... were doing everything they could to keep the Bills in Buffalo beyond Ralph's passing, but it turns out it was the NY politicians who made sure the Bills were staying. 

[MJS]

10 minutes ago, Jerry Jabber said:

"Poloncarz said that meant the Bills anticipated the likelihood that the team would move after Wilson's death. That's part of the reason the Bills didn't seek a huge sum for stadium renovations or a new stadium, he said."

 

The scene was the Millennium Hotel in Cheektowaga on Oct. 2, 2012. When Glaser, the key state negotiator, dropped the $400 million relocation "bomb" on Littman, the Bills CFO, "Jeff was shocked and angry," Poloncarz wrote.

 

I remember thinking at the time that Ralph Wilson, Russ Brandon, etc... were doing everything they could to keep the Bills in Buffalo beyond Ralph's passing, but it turns out it was the NY politicians who made sure the Bills were staying. 

I'm assuming Ralph wasn't much involved. He was incredibly old at the time. Russ Brandon probably didn't care, as long as he got paid.

[transplantbillsfan]

Aren't negotiations inherently "Up and Down," anyway?

[Jerry Jabber]

2 minutes ago, MJS said:

I'm assuming Ralph wasn't much involved. He was incredibly old at the time. Russ Brandon probably didn't care, as long as he got paid.

 

I agree 100% Not to bash the dead, but Ralph wasn't involved much with the team the last 15 years he owned them, which is why the product on the field was as bad as it was, so it wouldn't surprise me that most likely didn't have much (or anything) at all to do with the stadium lease negotiations.

[HurlyBurly51]

Stayin'!

[Happy]

25 minutes ago, Jerry Jabber said:

"Poloncarz said that meant the Bills anticipated the likelihood that the team would move after Wilson's death. That's part of the reason the Bills didn't seek a huge sum for stadium renovations or a new stadium, he said."

 

The scene was the Millennium Hotel in Cheektowaga on Oct. 2, 2012. When Glaser, the key state negotiator, dropped the $400 million relocation "bomb" on Littman, the Bills CFO, "Jeff was shocked and angry," Poloncarz wrote.

 

I remember thinking at the time that Ralph Wilson, Russ Brandon, etc... were doing everything they could to keep the Bills in Buffalo beyond Ralph's passing, but it turns out it was the NY politicians who made sure the Bills were staying. 

 

Littman seemed like a little turd who didn't care about the Bills or the fans; he was a bean counter who wanted to get paid...a lot.  Not surprised given how tight fisted he was while in the front office.

[May Day 10]

53 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

This is wild.  According to this, it was the STATE, and NOT Ralph Wilson, that required the $400 Billion non-relocation buy-out.  

 

Ralph got alot of credit for that term. Turns out he should not have. 

 

It always puzzled me when people gave wilson and brandon all the credit for the non relocation agreement, and have even seen it suggested russ brandon masterminded it and fooled everyone to save the bills.

  Generally the sides pull the other way and the county/state looking for the relocation fee and lease term as they potentially decrease the value of the asset.  Wilson did agree to it, which was good.  If the bills side wanted a strong NRA, ny and EC would have happily accepted a thousand year lease with a $3 trillion buyout. His passing was also right at the beginning of the NRA term which was also key in making an out of town purchase unattractive 

Edited July 15, 2019 by May Day 10

[Seasons1992]

49 minutes ago, Cynical said:

 

1)  "... when two things became clear to the Cuomo administration: The Bills had no interest in a new stadium, and the county had already determined that a new stadium in downtown would not work for a host of financial and logistical reasons. "

I wonder if these reasons still exist today.

 

Without that relocation fee, the Bills were good as gone upon Wilson's death.

 

I would imagine the county would have NO problems if a stadium were built, with private funds, to bring in more commerce/tax revenue. 

 

And I agree, that poison pill is the only reason they are still around.

[Mr Info]

9 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

Littman seemed like a little turd who didn't care about the Bills or the fans; he was a bean counter who wanted to get paid...a lot.  Not surprised given how tight fisted he was while in the front office.

Not going to disagree overall on the Littman assessment but that relocation fee would decrease the # of bidders and potentially lower the bids. A financial person working for Ralph was being responsible. Little did he know that one of the suitors would overpay significantly.

[Coach Tuesday]

1 minute ago, Mr Info said:

Not going to disagree overall on the Littman assessment but that relocation fee would decrease the # of bidders and potentially lower the bids. A financial person working for Ralph was being responsible. Little did he know that one of the suitors would overpay significantly.

 

"Responsible" is a stretch.  Littman squeezed every last nickel out of the state and county and secured a beautiful parachute for himself in the process.

[Steve Billieve]

Seems a little silly to give politicians the credit.  It was obvious as the time that state officials wanted the Bills to stay in Buffalo and merely by pursuing the renovation when he did Ralph was trying to keep the Bills in Buffalo.  It's Littman's job to focus on the financials, at the end of the day Ralph agreed to significantly reduce the the demand of his asset and presumably the value as well.  He didn't have to do it, but he did.  The politicians didn't loose anything by the deal Ralph Wilson did.  He gets the "credit".

 

Is Ralph's negotiator suppose to do the other sides job for them?

[Doc]

14 minutes ago, Steve Billieve said:

Seems a little silly to give politicians the credit.  It was obvious as the time that state officials wanted the Bills to stay in Buffalo and merely by pursuing the renovation when he did Ralph was trying to keep the Bills in Buffalo.  It's Littman's job to focus on the financials, at the end of the day Ralph agreed to significantly reduce the the demand of his asset and presumably the value as well.  He didn't have to do it, but he did.  The politicians didn't loose anything by the deal Ralph Wilson did.  He gets the "credit".

 

Is Ralph's negotiator suppose to do the other sides job for them?

 

Yup.  What was the downside to Ralph in rejecting the $400M relocation fee?  No new stadium lease and they move to greener pastures (LA)?  Not (much of) a penalty if you ask me.

Edited July 15, 2019 by Doc

[Jauronimo]

4 minutes ago, Mr Info said:

Not going to disagree overall on the Littman assessment but that relocation fee would decrease the # of bidders and potentially lower the bids. A financial person working for Ralph was being responsible. Little did he know that one of the suitors would overpay significantly.

That's what I was thinking.  As a fiduciary for the Wilson estate, as I believe he was, it was his legal responsibility to act in the best interest of the estate.  The estate said many times they were selling to the highest bidder.

[billsfanmiami(oh)]

11 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

"Responsible" is a stretch.  Littman squeezed every last nickel out of the state and county and secured a beautiful parachute for himself in the process.

 

That was his job

[BuffaloRebound]

The majority of the money was going to charitable work in Detroit and Buffalo.  Just seems like Wilson/Littman were playing a dangerous game of chicken.  Everybody hates politicians but give credit where it is due here.  

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

45 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

Littman seemed like a little turd who didn't care about the Bills or the fans; he was a bean counter who wanted to get paid...a lot.  Not surprised given how tight fisted he was while in the front office.

 

This is wrong. Like, "the sky is purple" wrong. There just isn't even an element of truth to it.  Littman represented his clients.  He did NOTHING he was not instructed to do. He did not have the type of discretion you are describing here. 

[Happy]

19 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

This is wrong. Like, "the sky is purple" wrong. There just isn't even an element of truth to it.  Littman represented his clients.  He did NOTHING he was not instructed to do. He did not have the type of discretion you are describing here. 

 

If it was so wrong without an element of truth, then why was Littman surprised and angry when the state dropped the $400 million relocation "bomb"?

I do believe Littman was acting in the best interest for the Wilson estate, but let's not pretend he didn't have a lot to gain from it.

[Steve Billieve]

Just now, Happy Gilmore said:

 

If it was so wrong without an element of truth, then why was Littman surprised and angry when the state dropped the $400 million relocation "bomb"?

I do believe Littman was acting in the best interest for the Wilson estate, but let's not pretend he didn't have a lot to gain from it.

 

I mean it is a negotiation.  What do you expect a negotiator to do? Vigorously agree?

[Happy]

6 minutes ago, Steve Billieve said:

 

I mean it is a negotiation.  What do you expect a negotiator to do? Vigorously agree?

 

I really don't care that Littman did not vigorously agree to the relocation fee.  Shouldn't have cared either way, since the team would be sold to the highest bidder, which it was.  

[Steve Billieve]

Just now, Happy Gilmore said:

 

I really don't care that Littman did not vigorously agree to the relocation fee.  Shouldn't have cared either way, since the team would be sold to the highest bidder, which it was.  

 

Just what do you think is being negotiated? The state wants the team to stay forever and ever.  The team wants the state to help provide facilities.  Why should a negotiator not care about an unusually large clawback that hadn't been previously discussed?

and even if he doesn't care why should he let that on.

[Happy]

1 minute ago, Steve Billieve said:

 

Just what do you think is being negotiated? The state wants the team to stay forever and ever.  The team wants the state to help provide facilities.  Why should a negotiator not care about an unusually large clawback that hadn't been previously discussed?

 

I don't think Littman could do anything about it.  If Littman cared about the Bills staying in Buffalo, he wouldn't have been so surprised, upset, or even minded this fee was attached to the deal.  

[zonabb]

1 hour ago, Cynical said:

Two things stand out to me:

 

1)  "... when two things became clear to the Cuomo administration: The Bills had no interest in a new stadium, and the county had already determined that a new stadium in downtown would not work for a host of financial and logistical reasons. "

I wonder if these reasons still exist today.

 

2) " Poloncarz said then-Bills President Russ Brandon told him that penalty ultimately kept many prospective owners – Poloncarz knew of about 10 – from placing bids on the Bills when Wilson died in March 2014. "

 

Without that relocation fee, the Bills were good as gone upon Wilson's death.

The downtown issues still and will remain. They are costly, time-consuming, and politically touchy.

 

1. Infrastructure. A new stadium would require massive upgrades to existing sewer and water systems. The systems in the downtown core simply can't handle that. The upgrades would be in the tens of millions if not hundreds, including addressing stormwater. The average person who hasn't spent a second in the development field tends to look only at the structure, missing out on the massive investment it often takes in upgrading existing or installing new public infrastructure. All of that exists on Abbott Rd. 

2. Transportation. This might be the biggest hurdle. There's not a site downtown, whether it's the Old First Ward, Waterfront, or somewhere else that offers easy access by auto OR a mix of public transportation and auto. Old First Ward comes closest but existing surface road system can't carry the traffic for a game. 

3. Land acquisition. This is a the politically touchy issue. Pegulas clearly have the financial ability to buy properties one at time in the Old First Ward or pretty much anywhere. However, the prices goes up as more property owners hold out for a sweetheart deal. The City could take properties by eminent domain on behalf of the team, but that's not a good look for a Mayor to take a property from a family to give it to a billionaire for fair market value. There are literally hundreds of small properties in the Old First Ward and surrounding areas owned by individuals that would require extensive legal work and costs to acquire. I have been told there are contracts to buy on some streets in the City but was not told which streets. Again, there's free land on Abbott St.

 

My money would be on continuing to walk along with this stadium as long as possible, hoping the fortunes of the city and region improve as climate change becomes and issue and the water wars take place, which make this region a sustainable place. Then if we see both an improvement in the overall economy and some population growth, it'll be a conversation for 10 years from now. Barring that, a new, simple stadium across from the current one would be my educated and informed guess.

[MacGyver]

40 minutes ago, zonabb said:

My money would be on continuing to walk along with this stadium as long as possible, hoping the fortunes of the city and region improve as climate change becomes and issue and the water wars take place, which make this region a sustainable place.

 

OMG...  WAT?

[CLTbills]

Wow. Great read. Thanks for posting

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

1 hour ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

If it was so wrong without an element of truth, then why was Littman surprised and angry when the state dropped the $400 million relocation "bomb"?

I do believe Littman was acting in the best interest for the Wilson estate, but let's not pretend he didn't have a lot to gain from it.

 

Did Littman have an equity interest in this deal? Or if the team sold? I am fairly certain the answer is no.  That would mean his compensation did not depend on the outcome of these negotiations.  The real truth: sometimes lawyers/representatives say things when advocating for their client, or as a result of the other parties conduct, that warrant that kind of reaction.  Its the nature of representation.  

[Steve Billieve]

1 hour ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

I don't think Littman could do anything about it.  If Littman cared about the Bills staying in Buffalo, he wouldn't have been so surprised, upset, or even minded this fee was attached to the deal.  

 

The details of clawback aggreeements are essential to any negotiation in which they are attached.  It was his job to mind, regardless of his feelings on where the franchise plays.  If one party has an unusual or excessive demand/request its your job as a negotiator to get something for it.

[Doc]

1 hour ago, Happy Gilmore said:

If it was so wrong without an element of truth, then why was Littman surprised and angry when the state dropped the $400 million relocation "bomb"?

I do believe Littman was acting in the best interest for the Wilson estate, but let's not pretend he didn't have a lot to gain from it.

 

Poloncarz could have been lying about Littman's reaction.  He's a politician you know.  And if Littman did indeed get angry, perhaps it was a "after all Ralph Wilson has done to remain in the area for decades?" kind of thing?

[Steve Billieve]

1 minute ago, Doc said:

 

Poloncarz could have been lying about Littman's reaction.  He's a politician you know.  And if Littman did indeed get angry, perhaps it was a "after all Ralph Wilson has done to remain in the area for decades?" kind of thing?

Or maybe it was because he hammered out a deal and then got sandbagged.

[RochesterLifer]

1 hour ago, zonabb said:

The downtown issues still and will remain. They are costly, time-consuming, and politically touchy.

 

1. Infrastructure. A new stadium would require massive upgrades to existing sewer and water systems. The systems in the downtown core simply can't handle that. The upgrades would be in the tens of millions if not hundreds, including addressing stormwater. The average person who hasn't spent a second in the development field tends to look only at the structure, missing out on the massive investment it often takes in upgrading existing or installing new public infrastructure. All of that exists on Abbott Rd. 

2. Transportation. This might be the biggest hurdle. There's not a site downtown, whether it's the Old First Ward, Waterfront, or somewhere else that offers easy access by auto OR a mix of public transportation and auto. Old First Ward comes closest but existing surface road system can't carry the traffic for a game. 

3. Land acquisition. This is a the politically touchy issue. Pegulas clearly have the financial ability to buy properties one at time in the Old First Ward or pretty much anywhere. However, the prices goes up as more property owners hold out for a sweetheart deal. The City could take properties by eminent domain on behalf of the team, but that's not a good look for a Mayor to take a property from a family to give it to a billionaire for fair market value. There are literally hundreds of small properties in the Old First Ward and surrounding areas owned by individuals that would require extensive legal work and costs to acquire. I have been told there are contracts to buy on some streets in the City but was not told which streets. Again, there's free land on Abbott St.

 

My money would be on continuing to walk along with this stadium as long as possible, hoping the fortunes of the city and region improve as climate change becomes and issue and the water wars take place, which make this region a sustainable place. Then if we see both an improvement in the overall economy and some population growth, it'll be a conversation for 10 years from now. Barring that, a new, simple stadium across from the current one would be my educated and informed guess.

I feel smarter, having read this. Thank you!

[ddaryl]

Pretty shocking considering most everyone was told it was Ralph that made sure the Bills stayed..

 

That's ok now I don't have to acknowledge Ralph's legacy.. Never really cared for him as an owner, only respected him because he kept the team here.. but this latest revelation now allows me to feel the way I truly do regarding Ralph. Horrible owner....  Got lucky in the early 90's.

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, zonabb said:

The downtown issues still and will remain. They are costly, time-consuming, and politically touchy.

 

1. Infrastructure. A new stadium would require massive upgrades to existing sewer and water systems. The systems in the downtown core simply can't handle that. The upgrades would be in the tens of millions if not hundreds, including addressing stormwater. The average person who hasn't spent a second in the development field tends to look only at the structure, missing out on the massive investment it often takes in upgrading existing or installing new public infrastructure. All of that exists on Abbott Rd. 

2. Transportation. This might be the biggest hurdle. There's not a site downtown, whether it's the Old First Ward, Waterfront, or somewhere else that offers easy access by auto OR a mix of public transportation and auto. Old First Ward comes closest but existing surface road system can't carry the traffic for a game. 

3. Land acquisition. This is a the politically touchy issue. Pegulas clearly have the financial ability to buy properties one at time in the Old First Ward or pretty much anywhere. However, the prices goes up as more property owners hold out for a sweetheart deal. The City could take properties by eminent domain on behalf of the team, but that's not a good look for a Mayor to take a property from a family to give it to a billionaire for fair market value. There are literally hundreds of small properties in the Old First Ward and surrounding areas owned by individuals that would require extensive legal work and costs to acquire. I have been told there are contracts to buy on some streets in the City but was not told which streets. Again, there's free land on Abbott St.

 

My money would be on continuing to walk along with this stadium as long as possible, hoping the fortunes of the city and region improve as climate change becomes and issue and the water wars take place, which make this region a sustainable place. Then if we see both an improvement in the overall economy and some population growth, it'll be a conversation for 10 years from now. Barring that, a new, simple stadium across from the current one would be my educated and informed guess.

Your analysis is clearly thought out and laid out in a way that a layman can understand. You did a terrific job is pointing out the monumental challenges associated with building a new stadium. As you noted in the real world you have to deal with real world issues/problems/complexities/costs that can't be ignored. 

 

Because there are so many complexities associated with building a downtown stadium or a stadium anywhere on land own by others it wouldn't be surprising that the simplest, cheapest and quickest approach is to build a new and less than exotic new stadium on the site where the current stadium is. The downtown and waterfront sites are steadily being developed and as you noted the infrastructure challenges for a new stadium in those locations make the hurdles even more daunting and costly. 

 

When all the plusses and minuses are added up the simplest approach from a building standpoint and the most cost effective approach is to build a new facility at the same location where the current stadium is located in Orchard Park. Staying within your means is not sexy and glamorous but when it comes to the owner's contribution and public funds it makes the most sense. 

[ddaryl]

1 hour ago, zonabb said:

The downtown issues still and will remain. They are costly, time-consuming, and politically touchy.  I'll play devils advocate here

 

1. Infrastructure. A new stadium would require massive upgrades to existing sewer and water systems. The systems in the downtown core simply can't handle that. The upgrades would be in the tens of millions if not hundreds, including addressing stormwater. The average person who hasn't spent a second in the development field tends to look only at the structure, missing out on the massive investment it often takes in upgrading existing or installing new public infrastructure. All of that exists on Abbott Rd. 

Buffalo is building up in the southern part of the city. Adding this infrastructure is going to happen with or without the stadium. The stadium would just be a catalyst to get it done earlier. That entire waterfront area south of the city all the way thru Woodlawn is going to get massive upgrades over the next decade.  I don't see this being a deterrent....  In fact I still see it as a huge positive for the city.  IMO

 

2. Transportation. This might be the biggest hurdle. There's not a site downtown, whether it's the Old First Ward, Waterfront, or somewhere else that offers easy access by auto OR a mix of public transportation and auto. Old First Ward comes closest but existing surface road system can't carry the traffic for a game. 

 

Take a look at MapQuest and all the railroad tracks that pour into this area already... I could see passenger trains coming in from the north south and west. Yes this is more investment but a Stadium would again serve a as catalyst for this huge wave of development that IS COMING to the southern part of the city IMO. Not ot mention givng Buffalo a huge boost in Public transportation. There is just so much railraods infrastructure that can be reclaimed and made very prosperous for the city. 

 

Quote

3. Land acquisition. This is a the politically touchy issue. Pegulas clearly have the financial ability to buy properties one at time in the Old First Ward or pretty much anywhere. However, the prices goes up as more property owners hold out for a sweetheart deal. The City could take properties by eminent domain on behalf of the team, but that's not a good look for a Mayor to take a property from a family to give it to a billionaire for fair market value. There are literally hundreds of small properties in the Old First Ward and surrounding areas owned by individuals that would require extensive legal work and costs to acquire. I have been told there are contracts to buy on some streets in the City but was not told which streets. Again, there's free land on Abbott St. 

This is the trickiest one to navigate. However for Future Buffalo I full y think it should happen. The SOuthern part of the city is going ot be the crown jewel area of Future Buffalo IMO

 

My money would be on continuing to walk along with this stadium as long as possible, hoping the fortunes of the city and region improve as climate change becomes and issue and the water wars take place, which make this region a sustainable place. Then if we see both an improvement in the overall economy and some population growth, it'll be a conversation for 10 years from now. Barring that, a new, simple stadium across from the current one would be my educated and informed guess.

You jumped the shark on this last paragraph. Water wars and climate change have no bearing on this decision. A new stadium will last 30 years. If the stadium is under water in 30 or water in encroaching on the city of Buffalo we got a lot more serious problems then watching football on Sundays. I don't think this thing drags out for 10 years....  5 years at most IMO. COuld very well be in OP

 

Edited July 15, 2019 by ddaryl

[Cynical]

1 hour ago, zonabb said:

The downtown issues still and will remain. They are costly, time-consuming, and politically touchy.

 

1. Infrastructure. A new stadium would require massive upgrades to existing sewer and water systems. The systems in the downtown core simply can't handle that. The upgrades would be in the tens of millions if not hundreds, including addressing stormwater. The average person who hasn't spent a second in the development field tends to look only at the structure, missing out on the massive investment it often takes in upgrading existing or installing new public infrastructure. All of that exists on Abbott Rd. 

2. Transportation. This might be the biggest hurdle. There's not a site downtown, whether it's the Old First Ward, Waterfront, or somewhere else that offers easy access by auto OR a mix of public transportation and auto. Old First Ward comes closest but existing surface road system can't carry the traffic for a game. 

3. Land acquisition. This is a the politically touchy issue. Pegulas clearly have the financial ability to buy properties one at time in the Old First Ward or pretty much anywhere. However, the prices goes up as more property owners hold out for a sweetheart deal. The City could take properties by eminent domain on behalf of the team, but that's not a good look for a Mayor to take a property from a family to give it to a billionaire for fair market value. There are literally hundreds of small properties in the Old First Ward and surrounding areas owned by individuals that would require extensive legal work and costs to acquire. I have been told there are contracts to buy on some streets in the City but was not told which streets. Again, there's free land on Abbott St.

 

My money would be on continuing to walk along with this stadium as long as possible, hoping the fortunes of the city and region improve as climate change becomes and issue and the water wars take place, which make this region a sustainable place. Then if we see both an improvement in the overall economy and some population growth, it'll be a conversation for 10 years from now. Barring that, a new, simple stadium across from the current one would be my educated and informed guess.

 

I agree with all of this.

You just do not drop a 60-65k seat stadium into the downtown area where nothing of that size presently exits now, and think some parking decks and widening a couple of roads will be all that's needed.

 

If we assume the economy improves and there is population growth, so will the demand for real estate and housing. Land acquisition will become even more problematic.

 

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

This is wrong. Like, "the sky is purple" wrong. There just isn't even an element of truth to it.  Littman represented his clients.  He did NOTHING he was not instructed to do. He did not have the type of discretion you are describing here. 

 

 

It's generally believed that Littman received a % of the team sale.......likely due to ownership stock given.......thus he had a personal, vested interest in maximizing the sale price.

 

I don't doubt Ralph preferred the team be kept in Buffalo...........he wanted more than anything to be remembered.........hence allowing the stadium to be named after him while he was still living?............. and he'd be totally forgotten by fans in a new city.............my guess is that he was open to the $400K relocation fee by then because he and Littman had already extracted about that out of the player payroll during the drought to cover inheritance tax concerns..........which became moot when the sales price became double what it would have been about 5 years earlier.

 

 

[WhoTom]

4 hours ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

This is wild.  According to this, it was the STATE, and NOT Ralph Wilson, that required the $400 Billion non-relocation buy-out.  

 

Ralph got alot of credit for that term. Turns out he should not have. 

 

"Gaining a non-relocation agreement, which included a $400 million penalty "bomb" if the team were to move, was a sticking point. Instead of that agreement, the team wanted lease language in which the Bills promised to reimburse the state and county stadium for renovation costs if the team moved."

 

I'd say it was a little of both, since the Bills' proposal would have included a $210M relocation penalty.

 

 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

4 hours ago, MJS said:

I'm assuming Ralph wasn't much involved. He was incredibly old at the time. Russ Brandon probably didn't care, as long as he got paid.

 

 

...yes Ralph got public credit for the $400 mil relo penalty, BUT who launched the press?.......I seriously doubt it was his family or Foundation...it was media driven I believe........yes the Estate got paid, but he wrote his Will to read that his ENTIRE $1.2 billion fortune must be wholly donated to charity within 20 years after his death...still remains an honorable man IMO...

Edited July 15, 2019 by OldTimeAFLGuy