Snow Game - Bills Colts 2017 - 2pt Conversion

[BillsM@fia]

What are your thoughts on the pass interference/illegal blocking on the 2pt conversion at the end of regulation.  If this doesn't get called, we are likely still in our playoff drought.

 

The highlights can be found on Youtube.

 

In your opinion, was it any of the following:

 

-Bad call by the refs?

-Good call by the refs?  The announcer comments that this should not have been called within 1 yard of the line of scrimmage.  If two point conversions start at the two yard line, it appears the incident happened about 1 yard from the line of scrimmage.  Very close situation.  

-The Bills were still alive in the playoff race at the time and the Colts were eliminated, did this play a factor in the call? (I don't care if it did, as the Bills had many calls go the other way during the drought)

 

Let me know you think!

Edited July 14, 2019 by BillsM@fia

[Stank_Nasty]

It was a bad call. Legal play. 

 

Oh well...It seems bad calls have happened against us way more than for us over the years. 

Edited July 14, 2019 by Stank_Nasty

[Another Fan]

No disrespect OP, it’s a play/game almost 2 years old now.  I tend to think more moving forward 

[BillsM@fia]

33 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said:

It was a bad call. Legal play. 

 

Oh well...It seems bad calls have happened against us way more than for us over the years. 

And the Colts had more opportunities to close the game out as well.  We threw a pick deep in our own territory right after this play happened and there was overtime.

 

I'm a firm believer things like make up calls or teams playing for something vs. an opponent who's season is over may get the benefit of the doubt as well.  I think there are some elements of that in play here.   You could also make the argument the snow impacted the decision by the ref as well.

 

9 minutes ago, Another Fan said:

No disrespect OP, it’s a play/game almost 2 years old now.  I tend to think more moving forward 

People talk about past games/plays all the time here.  May - July is the deadest time of the year for the NFL, so I thought it would be something interesting to discuss. 

 

 

Edited July 14, 2019 by BillsM@fia

[Epstein's Mother]

1 hour ago, Another Fan said:

No disrespect OP, it’s a play/game almost 2 years old now.  I tend to think more moving forward 

 

You probably haven't noticed but people love to "what if" the s**t out of stuff on this board.

[Cripple Creek]

5 minutes ago, Epstein's Mother said:

 

You probably haven't noticed but people love to "what if" the s**t out of stuff on this board.

Flutie was used up and playing Johnson was the right call.

[Stank_Nasty]

11 minutes ago, BillsM@fia said:

And the Colts had more opportunities to close the game out as well.  We threw a pick deep in our own territory right after this play happened and there was overtime.

 

I'm a firm believer things like make up calls or teams playing for something vs. an opponent who's season is over may get the benefit of the doubt as well.  I think there are some elements of that in play here.   You could also make the argument the snow impacted the decision by the ref as well.

 

 

 

 

I don’t really care about their opportunities after in this discussion. It was a bad call. That’s like saying the blatant Robey PI non-call last year wasn’t a big deal because the saints had opportunity after.  

 

Im not a big believer in makeup calls or other theories. Game moves to quick for that. It was a bad call. Snow may have been a factor. Like I said before, oh well, we’ve gotten way more bad breaks than good ones over the last 20 years. 

Edited July 14, 2019 by Stank_Nasty

[Cripple Creek]

 

[BillsM@fia]

4 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said:

I don’t really care about their opportunities after in this discussion. It was a bad call. That’s like saying the blatant Robey PI non-call last year wasn’t a big deal because the saints had opportunity after.  

 

That's fair.  Opportunities after are not important, I was digressing a bit.  You're absolutely correct the spirit of my question was the play/call itself.

[Cripple Creek]

9 minutes ago, BillsM@fia said:

That's fair.  Opportunities after are not important, I was digressing a bit.  You're absolutely correct the spirit of my question was the play/call itself.

It was a bad call. We were well past due for one in our favor.

 

We could go back to the year we lost to Pittsburgh's 3rd stringers to stay out of the playoffs and likely find a play or two that season if called correctly might have made all the difference.

[ALLEN1QB]

Interesting forgot about that play. 

[Boca BIlls]

Trying to care about a play from two years ago... Not working though. ***** happens both ways, people need to just accept it.

Edited July 14, 2019 by Boca BIlls

[Big Turk]

34 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said:

I don’t really care about their opportunities after in this discussion. It was a bad call. That’s like saying the blatant Robey PI non-call last year wasn’t a big deal because the saints had opportunity after.  

 

Im not a big believer in makeup calls or other theories. Game moves to quick for that. It was a bad call. Snow may have been a factor. Like I said before, oh well, we’ve gotten way more bad breaks than good ones over the last 20 years. 

The Saints didn't lose because of the Robey non call. They lost because they failed to bury a team that gave them every chance to bury them early in the game when they literally couldnt complete a pass or get a first down for the first quarter and a half.

 

They were up 10-0 with all the momentum and another score would have likely opened the floodgates. When a team gives you chances to bury them AT HOME with thw crowd going crazy and them looking scared to death and you fail to cash them in you have nobody to blame but yourself for losing. They should have won by 20+ points.

Edited July 14, 2019 by matter2003

[Doc]

It was the right call.   He was past 1yard from the LOS. 

[BillsM@fia]

41 minutes ago, Cripple Creek said:

 

 

So, under the new rules, this is challengeable?  Offensive pass interference. (well this would have come from the Booth being under two minutes/scoring play)

Edited July 14, 2019 by BillsM@fia

[Logic]

The Colts game is always the one I think of as being most pivotal in that season in terms of the Bills making the playoffs. I know that's silly, because obviously ALL wins were necessary to make the playoffs. But for some reason -- I suppose because that game swung back and forth so many times and was SO close to going the other way -- this is the one I come back to.

I remember being so irritated by all of the snow on the ground, because the Colts were awful that year and I just KNEW the Bills would've beaten them handily had the weather not been a factor. Instead, I knew the snow would be leveling the playing field. And sure enough, the Colts almost won.

The critical factors? Vinatieri's missed kick toward the end (by inches!), the two point call you mentioned, and most of all: Nathan Peterman and Kelvin Benjamin. We would not have won that game without Kelvin's big sideline catch followed by his toe-tapping end zone catch right before halftime. It was really the only thing of note that he contributed in his entire time as a Bill. And in fairness to Peterman, both of the aforementioned passes were right on the money, which was no sure thing based on the wind and Peterman's lack of arm strength.

Crazy game.

[Augie]

8 minutes ago, BillsM@fia said:

 

So, under the new rules, this is challengeable?  Offensive pass interference. (well this would have come from the Booth being under two minutes/scoring play)

 

I fear the new PI Challenge rule is going to be a horrible mess. Hope it’s not as bad as I envision. 

[BillsM@fia]

7 minutes ago, Logic said:

The Colts game is always the one I think of as being most pivotal in that season in terms of the Bills making the playoffs. I know that's silly, because obviously ALL wins were necessary to make the playoffs. But for some reason -- I suppose because that game swung back and forth so many times and was SO close to going the other way -- this is the one I come back to.

I remember being so irritated by all of the snow on the ground, because the Colts were awful that year and I just KNEW the Bills would've beaten them handily had the weather not been a factor. Instead, I knew the snow would be leveling the playing field. And sure enough, the Colts almost won.

The critical factors? Vinatieri's missed kick toward the end (by inches!), the two point call you mentioned, and most of all: Nathan Peterman and Kelvin Benjamin. We would not have won that game without Kelvin's big sideline catch followed by his toe-tapping end zone catch right before halftime. It was really the only thing of note that he contributed in his entire time as a Bill. And in fairness to Peterman, both of the aforementioned passes were right on the money, which was no sure thing based on the wind and Peterman's lack of arm strength.

Crazy game.

I agree with everything you said.  It was very frustrating, because the Bills would have waltz'd over this Colts team but the snow evened the playing field.  (Oh and Tyrod was injured as well).

 

Yep, it is silly as all games are important when making the playoffs, but I thought this was the most pivotal play in the most pivotal game.

 

But hey, if we have to play in another Blizzard again this season, we have a 1-2 punch at running back (Gore/McCoy) that is well equipped to weather the elements.

Edited July 14, 2019 by BillsM@fia

[SoCal Deek]

It was a pick. What’s the question?

[Cripple Creek]

Just now, SoCal Deek said:

It was a pick. What’s the question?

Within a yard of the LOS it's a legal play.

 

[Stranded in Boston]

20 minutes ago, Doc said:

It was the right call.   He was past 1yard from the LOS. 

Agreed, Doc -- and I never understood the debate on this call. Aiken takes a good 2-1/2 steps/hops forward before he makes contact with Hyde. That's gotta be >1 yard beyond LOS. A receiver (or lineman) can legally block beyond one yard from LOS as long as continuing contact that initiated within one yard, but Aiken's initial contact looked pretty clearly beyond 1 yard; close, but clearly over. Hell, you can even measure the distance from the tracks in the snow. OTOH, if the Patriots had been running that play, I can imagine the outcome ... ?

[Cripple Creek]

Just now, Stranded in Boston said:

Agreed, Doc -- and I never understood the debate on this call. Aiken takes a good 2-1/2 steps/hops forward before he makes contact with Hyde. That's gotta be >1 yard beyond LOS. A receiver (or lineman) can legally block beyond one yard from LOS as long as continuing contact that initiated within one yard, but Aiken's initial contact looked pretty clearly beyond 1 yard; close, but clearly over. Hell, you can even measure the distance from the tracks in the snow. OTOH, if the Patriots had been running that play, I can imagine the outcome ... ?

It occurred at the 1.  (IMO)

[MJS]

1 hour ago, Cripple Creek said:

 

Looks like a block into the end zone to me.

[SoCal Deek]

1 minute ago, Cripple Creek said:

Within a yard of the LOS it's a legal play.

 

I go more to the intent of the rule. There’s bound to be contact that close to the line of scrimmage. In this case the receiver actually turns back towards the center of the field to block (pick) the defender. I believe he was a ‘victim’ of his own poor execution of the move.

[Stranded in Boston]

9 minutes ago, Cripple Creek said:

It occurred at the 1.  (IMO)

Hmm, my view is that Hyde does not move forward more than one yard from the (dug-out) goal line. Ball is snapped at the 2; ergo Aiken's contact is >1 yard from LOS. But I could imagine somebody seeing it differently. Just good thing for us you weren't ref'ing that day, Cripple!   Also, I never understood the "blocked into the endzone" bit. Seems irrelevant to the rule at hand.

 

Edited July 14, 2019 by Stranded in Boston

[Cripple Creek]

9 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

I go more to the intent of the rule. There’s bound to be contact that close to the line of scrimmage. In this case the receiver actually turns back towards the center of the field to block (pick) the defender. I believe he was a ‘victim’ of his own poor execution of the move.

Players are blocking on screen passes, no?

[SectionC3]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

It was the right call.   He was past 1yard from the LOS. 

 

Yup.  Covered the tackle and took more than one full step off the LOS before initiating contact.  It was the right call. 

[wppete]

What an amazing game! I was hungover really bad watching that game ?. 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

The bigger issue with this game was McD played for a tie when a tie eliminated them from playoff race. 

23 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

 

Yup.  Covered the tackle and took more than one full step off the LOS before initiating contact.  It was the right call. 

Agree

[BillsM@fia]

2 hours ago, Augie said:

 

I fear the new PI Challenge rule is going to be a horrible mess. Hope it’s not as bad as I envision. 

 

Oh, I'm certain it will be terrible

 

 

41 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

The bigger issue with this game was McD played for a tie when a tie eliminated them from playoff race. 

Agree

 

I like McD as a coach, but yeah...that was bad.

[Captain Murica]

The Colt's also should've been flagged for the entire team clearing a spot for the holder on Vinatieri's game winning attempt. Yes, he missed but still should've been flagged. Thing tend balance themselves out throughout the course of the game. Unless you're the Saints, then you're just *****. 

[BillsM@fia]

2 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

I go more to the intent of the rule. There’s bound to be contact that close to the line of scrimmage. In this case the receiver actually turns back towards the center of the field to block (pick) the defender. I believe he was a ‘victim’ of his own poor execution of the move.

 

That's a good point. All Aiken had to was get in the path of the defender (he could have literally just stood there), no reason to engage.  Couple this with the poor traction, there is no way any DB can recover. Very poor execution.

 

7 minutes ago, Captain Murica said:

The Colt's also should've been flagged for the entire team clearing a spot for the holder on Vinatieri's game winning attempt. Yes, he missed but still should've been flagged. Thing tend balance themselves out throughout the course of the game. Unless you're the Saints, then you're just *****. 

 

Hmm, I thought this was instituted starting in 2018.  I was under the impression this game was a driving force behind it.  Maybe they redefined the rule in 2018? 

[Bills fan since 87]

3 hours ago, matter2003 said:

The Saints didn't lose because of the Robey non call. They lost because they failed to bury a team that gave them every chance to bury them early in the game when they literally couldnt complete a pass or get a first down for the first quarter and a half.

 

They were up 10-0 with all the momentum and another score would have likely opened the floodgates. When a team gives you chances to bury them AT HOME with thw crowd going crazy and them looking scared to death and you fail to cash them in you have nobody to blame but yourself for losing. They should have won by 20+ points.

 

The Saints didn't lose because of the call.  But had the correct call been made, pass interference OR helmet to helmet they have a first and goal inside the 5 and a chip shot FG to win at the gun, as they could have run the clock down having a fresh set of downs.  They simply would have won if either right call was made.  We'd have lost our minds had our season ended like that.

Edited July 14, 2019 by Bills fan since 87

[Orlando Tim]

3 hours ago, Cripple Creek said:

It was a bad call. We were well past due for one in our favor.

 

We could go back to the year we lost to Pittsburgh's 3rd stringers to stay out of the playoffs and likely find a play or two that season if called correctly might have made all the difference.

I just watched it and the 2 pt for NE to beat ATL in superbowl and if the Colts were even questionable then NE clearly had 2 guys breaking the same rule. I know why bother but it is why the NFL officials are a joke-they find reasons to make calls some moments and ignore obvious ones depending on game.

40 minutes ago, Captain Murica said:

The Colt's also should've been flagged for the entire team clearing a spot for the holder on Vinatieri's game winning attempt. Yes, he missed but still should've been flagged. Thing tend balance themselves out throughout the course of the game. Unless you're the Saints, then you're just *****. 

I disagree on them balancing themselves out. I think the NFL officals look for certain things and miss a ton of obvious fouls because they expect certain things and run the game accordingly.

[eball]

It takes a special type of person to create a thread like this. 

And by special I mean “someone I’ll never invite to my home.”

[folz]

The call was very close and probably could have gone either way. More often than not, they probably don't call that. But, by the letter of the law, I do think it was a foul. If you pause the video at the exact moment that he makes contact, his left foot is about one foot from the goal line (which you can see because it has been cleared off). When his foot next moves, it is on the goal line. So, at best, his back (right) foot could have been on or near the the one yard line, but the majority of his body had to be beyond the one yard line. It was a clear pick play. He wasn't going out for a pattern, he was there to pick the defenders off. I believe the one yard rule is really to allow a WR to block on a running play, not to allow pick plays (as long as its near the line of scrimmage). So, by both the letter and the spirit of the law, it was probably the right call, even if the refs often don't make that call on similar plays.

[Cripple Creek]

1 hour ago, eball said:

And by special I mean “someone I’ll never invite to my home.”

and for that we're thankful

[Captain Murica]

1 hour ago, BillsM@fia said:

 

That's a good point. All Aiken had to was get in the path of the defender (he could have literally just stood there), no reason to engage.  Couple this with the poor traction, there is no way any DB can recover. Very poor execution.

 

 

Hmm, I thought this was instituted starting in 2018.  I was under the impression this game was a driving force behind it.  Maybe they redefined the rule in 2018? 

 

 

"The snow-clearing policies are in the game day operations manual, since it largely applied to grounds crews. (It also includes when and where they do authorized line clearing.) Since the provision wasn’t in the rule book, Allen had to warn the sideline before assessing any penalties. Now, if non-player personnel attempt to clear snow off the field on a kick play, a 15-yard unsportsmanlike penalty will be enforced without any warnings, which is the only practical difference between 2017 and 2018."

 

Yup, you're correct. Which is dumb because you could clear a spot and just receive a warning which makes it worth it. 

Edited July 14, 2019 by Captain Murica

[Just Joshin']

4 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

It was a pick. What’s the question?

Is the implied point being made that the Bills should not have been in the playoffs?  If so, don't care.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

my spidey senses are going off. i sense a troll nearby