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DE Jerry Hughes: Signs two-year extension

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36 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Perhaps. But isn't it possible the new contract doesn't kick in until his old one is completed after 2019? It's an extension, after all. Isn't also possible that the new contract structure is all salary and no signing bonus at $23m/$11.5m per year for '20 and '21 with $19.5m guaranteed? Just tossing that out there. 

 

It is. And if that is the deal it is too risky for my tastes. I am not going to criticise it though before that is confirmed. 

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1 minute ago, eball said:

 

I’ve never complained to a mod that I can recall; I’m happy to address issues directly with folks. 

 

That said, if calling someone “damaged” is an insult I think somebody is a wee bit sensitive. 

 

I’m pretty tired of hearing the same people say the same things over and over and over again, and I’ll keep calling them out for it. 

Pot meet kettle!  You post the same things about Bills just change the names.  

 

And my life is great thanks.  If I’ve become a “damaged” (realistic and non homer is the correct term) fan, it’s because of the Bills.  Much like you, I was the guy who apologized after girlfriend cheated on me.  Now, I don’t believe her when she says she is really different this this time and she has to show me! 😎

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2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

It is. And if that is the deal it is too risky for my tastes. I am not going to criticise it though before that is confirmed. 

Is it his age at that’s the concern? Because from a salary standpoint, when I look at upper echelon edge rushers (and I consider him to be one)  $11.5m per isn’t a huge number for a DE of his caliber. And guaranteeing less than $10m per year is a steal imo. And because of no bonus structure (that we know of currently) don’t they mitigate the risk of dead money in the future? 

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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Is it his age at that’s the concern? Because from a salary standpoint, when I look at upper echelon edge rushers (and I consider him to be one)  $11.5m per isn’t a huge number for a DE of his caliber. And guaranteeing less than $10m per year is a steal imo. And because of no bonus structure (that we know of currently) don’t they mitigate the risk of dead money in the future? 

 

Yes it is his age. When the end comes for pass rushers it comes quickly. I keep quoting the Mario Williams example and the Brian Orapko example from last year but he was still a pretty productive player in 2017 and then a total non factor in 2018. When the wall comes with Jerry (who I like a lot though I think talk of elite or upper echelon is a little over blown - he is a top 15 pass rusher not a top 5 guy - not dissimilar to Orakpo actually) I can see it coming quickly. He had maybe his best season as a Bill in 2018 so it would be a stretch to think it might come in 2019 but anyone who claims to know he will be equally as productive in 2020 or 2021 when he is 32 and 33 is reaching in my view. At the price - which I agree by the way in $ per year is a good one - I am prepared to bear that risk for one year but two feels too much. 

 

My preference would be for the Bills to have given him new money now - in the form of a signing bonus amortised for cap purposes - that makes him count more on the cap in 2019 but reduces the dead money for 2021. If it is just a totally unaffected final year of his old deal plus two new years that are all but fully guaranteed then I think it is a bigger risk that I'd have taken. Now Jerry might still be super productive in 2021 at the age of 33 and prove well worth his $11m but nobody can tell me now that they know he will be. And that to me feels like a punt. I am not saying it is a bad contract just a risky one... and a risk beyond what I'd have taken. 

Edited by GunnerBill
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Why don't people shout HUUUUGHES when he gets a SACK? Kind of like BRUUUCE. I feel we're missing out on a golden opportunity. 

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2 hours ago, TaskersGhost said:

 

Letting him walk w/o any other above-average edge rushers would have looked pretty silly, don't you think.  

 

Beane hasn't gone after a single edge-rusher in his time here thru three seasons.  What, Murphy?  

 

It was a no-brainer, if not pure necessity, to re-sign Hughes.  Without Hughes they go into the season with whom, Murphy and Yarbrough at the DE positions.  That would not have been good, and with what, Lawson and 7th-rounder Darryl Johnson from NC A&T as their immediate backups?  

 

So I agree, there aren't two sides to it.  Had to get done if for no other reason than poor planning otherwise.  

Agree 100%. I like Hughes. I really do. But what made the deal necessary were the question marks regarding ALL the other DE's on the roster. The position is far from set, so Hughes is a must keep guy for the time being.

1 hour ago, eball said:

 

 

I’m pretty tired of hearing the same people say the same things over and over and over again

Me too.

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1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I just don’t get why the other players, besides McKinley who I’m not a fan of, are able to get sacks.  It’s not a bad thing to tackle the qb. 

 

That would be a good question.  

 

image.thumb.png.3f4fa0cc26268031124e4029644747ae.png

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43 minutes ago, R Y G A R said:

Why don't people shout HUUUUGHES when he gets a SACK? Kind of like BRUUUCE. I feel we're missing out on a golden opportunity. 

 

Probably because Bruce was a game-changing player on a regular basis and logged sacks far more regularly.  

 

To be fair, Hughes hasn't had a double-digit sack season in five years.  He's averaged a mere 5.5 sacks/season over the past four years, his prime.  

 

From the same age range, to Hughes' 22 sacks, Bruce logged 48.5 sacks.  

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24 minutes ago, TaskersGhost said:

 

That would be a good question.  

 

image.thumb.png.3f4fa0cc26268031124e4029644747ae.png

Now do their most recent 3 years and not when he played with Mario, younger Kyle, and Dareus.

 

i like Hughes but most fan bases would sweat a stat like pressures so much over actual sacks.  And he’s getting older.  I mean you are stuck because we haven’t gotten another quality pass rusher in years. 

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4 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Now do their most recent 3 years and not when he played with Mario, younger Kyle, and Dareus.

 

i like Hughes but most fan bases would sweat a stat like pressures so much over actual sacks.  And he’s getting older.  I mean you are stuck because we haven’t gotten another quality pass rusher in years. 

 

What?  

 

Dude, forget it.  

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2 hours ago, eball said:

 

I’ve never complained to a mod that I can recall; I’m happy to address issues directly with folks. 

 

That said, if calling someone “damaged” is an insult I think somebody is a wee bit sensitive. 

 

I’m pretty tired of hearing the same people say the same things over and over and over again, and I’ll keep calling them out for it. 

Do you think it is OK if they disagree with you?

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1 hour ago, TaskersGhost said:

 

Probably because Bruce was a game-changing player on a regular basis and logged sacks far more regularly.  

 

To be fair, Hughes hasn't had a double-digit sack season in five years.  He's averaged a mere 5.5 sacks/season over the past four years, his prime.  

 

From the same age range, to Hughes' 22 sacks, Bruce logged 48.5 sacks.  

I wasn't comparing them as players. I just thought it would be cool. It's not like I'm saying he should change his number to #78. Bruce is an all time NFL great. 

 

It'd be the same as if say Hughes played FB and when he caught a pass, the crowd would do a HUUGGES chant, like Dallas did for Moose Johnston. I was just using the BRUCE chant for comparison, not the players, if that makes sense. 

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3 minutes ago, R Y G A R said:

I wasn't comparing them as players. I just thought it would be cool. It's not like I'm saying he should change his number to #78. Bruce is an all time NFL great. 

 

It'd be the same as if say Hughes played FB and when he caught a pass, the crowd would do a HUUGGES chant, like Dallas did for Moose Johnston. I was just using the BRUCE chant for comparison, not the players, if that makes sense. 

How shall I say it? Bruce was a generational talent...larger than life at times. He evoked a much larger response! Omnipotence! 

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2 hours ago, R Y G A R said:

Why don't people shout HUUUUGHES when he gets a SACK? Kind of like BRUUUCE. I feel we're missing out on a golden opportunity. 

We could always start singing "Under Pressure" when he almost gets there.

 

A lot more opportunities in that scenario.

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3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yes it is his age. When the end comes for pass rushers it comes quickly. I keep quoting the Mario Williams example and the Brian Orapko example from last year but he was still a pretty productive player in 2017 and then a total non factor in 2018. When the wall comes with Jerry (who I like a lot though I think talk of elite or upper echelon is a little over blown - he is a top 15 pass rusher not a top 5 guy - not dissimilar to Orakpo actually) I can see it coming quickly. He had maybe his best season as a Bill in 2018 so it would be a stretch to think it might come in 2019 but anyone who claims to know he will be equally as productive in 2020 or 2021 when he is 32 and 33 is reaching in my view. At the price - which I agree by the way in $ per year is a good one - I am prepared to bear that risk for one year but two feels too much. 

 

My preference would be for the Bills to have given him new money now - in the form of a signing bonus amortised for cap purposes - that makes him count more on the cap in 2019 but reduces the dead money for 2021. If it is just a totally unaffected final year of his old deal plus two new years that are all but fully guaranteed then I think it is a bigger risk that I'd have taken. Now Jerry might still be super productive in 2021 at the age of 33 and prove well worth his $11m but nobody can tell me now that they know he will be. And that to me feels like a punt. I am not saying it is a bad contract just a risky one... and a risk beyond what I'd have taken. 

I can appreciate this.

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21 minutes ago, Rocket94 said:

How shall I say it? Bruce was a generational talent...larger than life at times. He evoked a much larger response! Omnipotence! 

Yes Bruce is a legend. But not sure what that has to do with a Hughes chant. Would it be disrespectful to Bruce if Hughes had a similar sack chant? 

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Just now, R Y G A R said:

Yes Bruce is a legend. But not sure what that has to do with a Hughes chant. Would it be disrespectful to Bruce if Hughes had a similar sack chant? 

No...right on. What I was getting at, was that Bruce was just Bruce. He exuded that kind of attention. Hopefully if enough people read this they can start a chant for Hughes! 

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Posted (edited)

This is perfect. Exactly what I'm sure many of us were hoping for. Gotta say, I grow more impressed with McBeane with each transaction. It's so much more fun cheering for a team that isn't incompetent when making player personnel decisions. 

Edited by VW82

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On 5/21/2019 at 1:55 AM, Buffalo30 said:

Maybe now some fans can stop being so nervous about the DE position. 

Who's our long term answer opposite of Hughes?

 

The E in DE stands for End. There are 2 Ends to a Defensive Line.

 

Who's going to play opposite of Hughes and be productive for the next few years?

 

DE is still probably our biggest need going into the 2020 regular season.

 

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5 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

Who's our long term answer opposite of Hughes?

 

The E in DE stands for End. There are 2 Ends to a Defensive Line.

 

Who's going to play opposite of Hughes and be productive for the next few years?

 

DE is still probably our biggest need going into the 2020 regular season.

 

Ok...and they have an entire offseason plus to find a guy to fill 1 spot...nothing to be nervous about. With what Beane has done and attempted to do this offseason, I think we can trust that he will do what’s in his power to fill the hole. 

 

Some were losing their heads having only one player on the books at the position for next year and now we have a starting quality player on the books for two years. 

 

Dont know now why you were talking to me like a toddler. 1 player isn’t exactly hard to fill especially when you look at potential free agents next season and potential draftable players at the position. Beane filled many holes in one offseason. I think he can manage adding this piece next year haha. 

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13 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yes it is his age. When the end comes for pass rushers it comes quickly. I keep quoting the Mario Williams example and the Brian Orapko example from last year but he was still a pretty productive player in 2017 and then a total non factor in 2018. When the wall comes with Jerry (who I like a lot though I think talk of elite or upper echelon is a little over blown - he is a top 15 pass rusher not a top 5 guy - not dissimilar to Orakpo actually) I can see it coming quickly. He had maybe his best season as a Bill in 2018 so it would be a stretch to think it might come in 2019 but anyone who claims to know he will be equally as productive in 2020 or 2021 when he is 32 and 33 is reaching in my view. At the price - which I agree by the way in $ per year is a good one - I am prepared to bear that risk for one year but two feels too much. 

 

My preference would be for the Bills to have given him new money now - in the form of a signing bonus amortised for cap purposes - that makes him count more on the cap in 2019 but reduces the dead money for 2021. If it is just a totally unaffected final year of his old deal plus two new years that are all but fully guaranteed then I think it is a bigger risk that I'd have taken. Now Jerry might still be super productive in 2021 at the age of 33 and prove well worth his $11m but nobody can tell me now that they know he will be. And that to me feels like a punt. I am not saying it is a bad contract just a risky one... and a risk beyond what I'd have taken. 

 

 

It's definitely a risk but your top pass rusher is second only to your QB in value, IMO.

 

If you are going to exceed a comfortable risk level it's there.  

 

Was it necessary to do now?   I mean, if they think that the addition of Oliver is going to push more QB's into Hughes' grasp then it makes sense.

 

I think the fact that 37 year old Cameron Wake got 3 years $23M and $10M guaranteed after a 6 sack season says a good deal about the hunger for pass rushers around the league.

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10 hours ago, R Y G A R said:

I wasn't comparing them as players. I just thought it would be cool. It's not like I'm saying he should change his number to #78. Bruce is an all time NFL great. 

 

It'd be the same as if say Hughes played FB and when he caught a pass, the crowd would do a HUUGGES chant, like Dallas did for Moose Johnston. I was just using the BRUCE chant for comparison, not the players, if that makes sense. 

 

I hear ya, but implicit in my comment was simply that it would be similar to doing a "chant" for say any player that doesn't regularly produce.  It loses a little something if things don't happen regularly enough.  I could see it for Kyle because he was such a disruptive force that sacks simply didn't epitomize his play enough, but when he got them it was like icing on the cake and would have been sort of a recognition for the three plays prior in that game where he single-handedly blew up the play.  So too, Johnston was a role player, sort of like Tasker, but obviously in a different way.  When Dallas back then really needed a yard, Moose would come in and essentially get it. Same thing with Bruce, or Tasker with a TD or big coverage, but with Hughes, as I see it, when, as was the case last season, you sack Darnold, Bortles, Mariotta, Cousins, and Tannehill as your sack production in wins, and against teams that really weren't much better than you and in several cases worse, it loses a little bit.  A lot of that simply has to do with the status of the team now.  Today fans go to the games hoping to win.  Back then we went to the games expecting to win, and almost always did at home.  In the playoffs, from '88 - '95 we didn't lose a home playoff game.  

 

BTW, I posted that just thinking to myself now.   

 

Either way, I didn't mean it critically, I thought you were seriously wondering why it didn't happen.  

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

It's definitely a risk but your top pass rusher is second only to your QB in value, IMO.

 

If you are going to exceed a comfortable risk level it's there.  

 

Was it necessary to do now?   I mean, if they think that the addition of Oliver is going to push more QB's into Hughes' grasp then it makes sense.

 

I think the fact that 37 year old Cameron Wake got 3 years $23M and $10M guaranteed after a 6 sack season says a good deal about the hunger for pass rushers around the league.

 

I agree in positional value and I like them doing it now. As I say I await with interest the detail contract breakdown. I would hope that some of that new money has been paid upfront (which presumably Hughes would not object to) as a signing bonus that can be spread across the three years meaning he counts more against the 2019 cap - we have the space and the major signing phases are done so don't see a downside to it - and then is a manageable risk in 2021.

Edited by GunnerBill

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

It's definitely a risk but your top pass rusher is second only to your QB in value, IMO.

 

If you are going to exceed a comfortable risk level it's there.  

 

Was it necessary to do now?   I mean, if they think that the addition of Oliver is going to push more QB's into Hughes' grasp then it makes sense.

 

I think the fact that 37 year old Cameron Wake got 3 years $23M and $10M guaranteed after a 6 sack season says a good deal about the hunger for pass rushers around the league.

 

Don't you think that a good MLB is more critical?  

 

I mean if that middle is "wide-open" it really wreaks havoc with your D.  Point well taken however, you need a solid outside pass-rush as well either way.  Not sure we have that, but why not?  Poor planning appears to be the reason.  That and a reliance on a player like Trent Murphy.  

 

I don't share your (and everyone's) optimism on Oliver.  He played horrifically weak competition and essentially got skunked against the only two power-5 teams that he played against.  He was even first defensively on his own team, not even close.  A highlight reel of games in two seasons against teams none of which won more than 3 games and the likes of Rice, Tulsa, and East Carolina is problematic.  He faced no OL-men that got drafted in '18 or '19.  Phillips did and his production against a level of competition, many of the Gs and Cs he played against got drafted, was comparable.  Yet, he was no force last season and he's bigger.  I think that fans will be disappointed.  I think it was a horrible draft pick despite the wealth of narrative which frankly, I simply don't understand after watching Oliver's every-snap vids against Texas Tech and Arizona this past season.  

Edited by TaskersGhost

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Why are there 10 pages on this topic? The Bills have the cash and Hughes is by far the best, possibly only, pass rusher they have! Pay this guy and see if we can get his successor on the roster in the next two drafts. Where’s the debate here?

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