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CaptnCoke11

DE Jerry Hughes: Signs two-year extension

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22 hours ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

1. It is the offensive line, a group not as amenable to statistical analysis as others.  But this seems like a non-issue.  Are you actually contending that the offensive line last year was even close to 2017?  I didn't think anyone actually thought this...

 

2. Cordy Glenn was out after the fifth game.  With Cordy Glenn in the offense averaged 271 yards/game.  With Cordy Glenn out, the offense averaged 316 yards/game.  So no, the offense moved the ball better without Glenn.  

 

Your Incognito point is absolutely non-sensical.  I don't know how anyone argues he wasn't on the way to being a basket case.  I honestly had assumed everyone understood it was a large part of why they asked for his contract to be cut. 

 

3.  You act like the team was expecting Wood to retire.  Had he not retired, we would have been all set.  No one saw it coming.  The fact that you glaze over this piece is every reason your history is so revisionist.  

 

4.  There were problems with other parts of the line, but its the Center that leads the group and calls protections.  It starts with him.  The fact that the line not only played poorly, but suffered from constant miscommunications is an illustration that the problem started a the Center position. 

 

 

2.  Absolutely wrong.   Glenn started game 6, 7 and 8 after the bye.   He was out entirely from week 9 on.   But at least you are getting an idea of how to present some kind of arguable point. :thumbsup:  It's just wrong in this case.    

 

Incognito had an exchange with Ngakoue in the playoff game but otherwise there were no obvious signs that he was about to go off his rocker and if there were they wouldn't have been asking for a pay cut they'd have CUT HIM before guaranteeing him more money.:doh:

 

 

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17 hours ago, Logic said:

It's real simple, and there aren't two sides to it:

Jerry Hughes is a very good edge rusher. The Bills improved their team next year by re-signing him. Letting him walk away while he's still highly productive would have been silly.

 

Letting him walk w/o any other above-average edge rushers would have looked pretty silly, don't you think.  

 

Beane hasn't gone after a single edge-rusher in his time here thru three seasons.  What, Murphy?  

 

It was a no-brainer, if not pure necessity, to re-sign Hughes.  Without Hughes they go into the season with whom, Murphy and Yarbrough at the DE positions.  That would not have been good, and with what, Lawson and 7th-rounder Darryl Johnson from NC A&T as their immediate backups?  

 

So I agree, there aren't two sides to it.  Had to get done if for no other reason than poor planning otherwise.  

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1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yea we need to see the details. That 2019 number is just copied from the old deal. 

Perhaps. But isn't it possible the new contract doesn't kick in until his old one is completed after 2019? It's an extension, after all. Isn't also possible that the new contract structure is all salary and no signing bonus at $23m/$11.5m per year for '20 and '21 with $19.5m guaranteed? Just tossing that out there. 

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1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

I just don’t get why the other players, besides McKinley who I’m not a fan of, are able to get sacks.  It’s not a bad thing to tackle the qb. 

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11 hours ago, Bill from NYC said:

I'm not sure how cool it is for posters to be taunting someone like that. This would especially apply (imo of course) to people who cry to the mods about other "meanies."

I am NOT saying that you complain to mods e-man. That said, I have a hunch that a lot of posters are, but then feel free to insult Scott and others.

 

I’ve never complained to a mod that I can recall; I’m happy to address issues directly with folks. 

 

That said, if calling someone “damaged” is an insult I think somebody is a wee bit sensitive. 

 

I’m pretty tired of hearing the same people say the same things over and over and over again, and I’ll keep calling them out for it. 

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36 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Perhaps. But isn't it possible the new contract doesn't kick in until his old one is completed after 2019? It's an extension, after all. Isn't also possible that the new contract structure is all salary and no signing bonus at $23m/$11.5m per year for '20 and '21 with $19.5m guaranteed? Just tossing that out there. 

 

It is. And if that is the deal it is too risky for my tastes. I am not going to criticise it though before that is confirmed. 

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1 minute ago, eball said:

 

I’ve never complained to a mod that I can recall; I’m happy to address issues directly with folks. 

 

That said, if calling someone “damaged” is an insult I think somebody is a wee bit sensitive. 

 

I’m pretty tired of hearing the same people say the same things over and over and over again, and I’ll keep calling them out for it. 

Pot meet kettle!  You post the same things about Bills just change the names.  

 

And my life is great thanks.  If I’ve become a “damaged” (realistic and non homer is the correct term) fan, it’s because of the Bills.  Much like you, I was the guy who apologized after girlfriend cheated on me.  Now, I don’t believe her when she says she is really different this this time and she has to show me! 😎

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2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

It is. And if that is the deal it is too risky for my tastes. I am not going to criticise it though before that is confirmed. 

Is it his age at that’s the concern? Because from a salary standpoint, when I look at upper echelon edge rushers (and I consider him to be one)  $11.5m per isn’t a huge number for a DE of his caliber. And guaranteeing less than $10m per year is a steal imo. And because of no bonus structure (that we know of currently) don’t they mitigate the risk of dead money in the future? 

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15 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Is it his age at that’s the concern? Because from a salary standpoint, when I look at upper echelon edge rushers (and I consider him to be one)  $11.5m per isn’t a huge number for a DE of his caliber. And guaranteeing less than $10m per year is a steal imo. And because of no bonus structure (that we know of currently) don’t they mitigate the risk of dead money in the future? 

 

Yes it is his age. When the end comes for pass rushers it comes quickly. I keep quoting the Mario Williams example and the Brian Orapko example from last year but he was still a pretty productive player in 2017 and then a total non factor in 2018. When the wall comes with Jerry (who I like a lot though I think talk of elite or upper echelon is a little over blown - he is a top 15 pass rusher not a top 5 guy - not dissimilar to Orakpo actually) I can see it coming quickly. He had maybe his best season as a Bill in 2018 so it would be a stretch to think it might come in 2019 but anyone who claims to know he will be equally as productive in 2020 or 2021 when he is 32 and 33 is reaching in my view. At the price - which I agree by the way in $ per year is a good one - I am prepared to bear that risk for one year but two feels too much. 

 

My preference would be for the Bills to have given him new money now - in the form of a signing bonus amortised for cap purposes - that makes him count more on the cap in 2019 but reduces the dead money for 2021. If it is just a totally unaffected final year of his old deal plus two new years that are all but fully guaranteed then I think it is a bigger risk that I'd have taken. Now Jerry might still be super productive in 2021 at the age of 33 and prove well worth his $11m but nobody can tell me now that they know he will be. And that to me feels like a punt. I am not saying it is a bad contract just a risky one... and a risk beyond what I'd have taken. 

Edited by GunnerBill
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2 hours ago, TaskersGhost said:

 

Letting him walk w/o any other above-average edge rushers would have looked pretty silly, don't you think.  

 

Beane hasn't gone after a single edge-rusher in his time here thru three seasons.  What, Murphy?  

 

It was a no-brainer, if not pure necessity, to re-sign Hughes.  Without Hughes they go into the season with whom, Murphy and Yarbrough at the DE positions.  That would not have been good, and with what, Lawson and 7th-rounder Darryl Johnson from NC A&T as their immediate backups?  

 

So I agree, there aren't two sides to it.  Had to get done if for no other reason than poor planning otherwise.  

Agree 100%. I like Hughes. I really do. But what made the deal necessary were the question marks regarding ALL the other DE's on the roster. The position is far from set, so Hughes is a must keep guy for the time being.

1 hour ago, eball said:

 

 

I’m pretty tired of hearing the same people say the same things over and over and over again

Me too.

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1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I just don’t get why the other players, besides McKinley who I’m not a fan of, are able to get sacks.  It’s not a bad thing to tackle the qb. 

 

That would be a good question.  

 

image.thumb.png.3f4fa0cc26268031124e4029644747ae.png

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43 minutes ago, R Y G A R said:

Why don't people shout HUUUUGHES when he gets a SACK? Kind of like BRUUUCE. I feel we're missing out on a golden opportunity. 

 

Probably because Bruce was a game-changing player on a regular basis and logged sacks far more regularly.  

 

To be fair, Hughes hasn't had a double-digit sack season in five years.  He's averaged a mere 5.5 sacks/season over the past four years, his prime.  

 

From the same age range, to Hughes' 22 sacks, Bruce logged 48.5 sacks.  

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24 minutes ago, TaskersGhost said:

 

That would be a good question.  

 

image.thumb.png.3f4fa0cc26268031124e4029644747ae.png

Now do their most recent 3 years and not when he played with Mario, younger Kyle, and Dareus.

 

i like Hughes but most fan bases would sweat a stat like pressures so much over actual sacks.  And he’s getting older.  I mean you are stuck because we haven’t gotten another quality pass rusher in years. 

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4 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Now do their most recent 3 years and not when he played with Mario, younger Kyle, and Dareus.

 

i like Hughes but most fan bases would sweat a stat like pressures so much over actual sacks.  And he’s getting older.  I mean you are stuck because we haven’t gotten another quality pass rusher in years. 

 

What?  

 

Dude, forget it.  

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2 hours ago, eball said:

 

I’ve never complained to a mod that I can recall; I’m happy to address issues directly with folks. 

 

That said, if calling someone “damaged” is an insult I think somebody is a wee bit sensitive. 

 

I’m pretty tired of hearing the same people say the same things over and over and over again, and I’ll keep calling them out for it. 

Do you think it is OK if they disagree with you?

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1 hour ago, TaskersGhost said:

 

Probably because Bruce was a game-changing player on a regular basis and logged sacks far more regularly.  

 

To be fair, Hughes hasn't had a double-digit sack season in five years.  He's averaged a mere 5.5 sacks/season over the past four years, his prime.  

 

From the same age range, to Hughes' 22 sacks, Bruce logged 48.5 sacks.  

I wasn't comparing them as players. I just thought it would be cool. It's not like I'm saying he should change his number to #78. Bruce is an all time NFL great. 

 

It'd be the same as if say Hughes played FB and when he caught a pass, the crowd would do a HUUGGES chant, like Dallas did for Moose Johnston. I was just using the BRUCE chant for comparison, not the players, if that makes sense. 

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3 minutes ago, R Y G A R said:

I wasn't comparing them as players. I just thought it would be cool. It's not like I'm saying he should change his number to #78. Bruce is an all time NFL great. 

 

It'd be the same as if say Hughes played FB and when he caught a pass, the crowd would do a HUUGGES chant, like Dallas did for Moose Johnston. I was just using the BRUCE chant for comparison, not the players, if that makes sense. 

How shall I say it? Bruce was a generational talent...larger than life at times. He evoked a much larger response! Omnipotence! 

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2 hours ago, R Y G A R said:

Why don't people shout HUUUUGHES when he gets a SACK? Kind of like BRUUUCE. I feel we're missing out on a golden opportunity. 

We could always start singing "Under Pressure" when he almost gets there.

 

A lot more opportunities in that scenario.

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3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yes it is his age. When the end comes for pass rushers it comes quickly. I keep quoting the Mario Williams example and the Brian Orapko example from last year but he was still a pretty productive player in 2017 and then a total non factor in 2018. When the wall comes with Jerry (who I like a lot though I think talk of elite or upper echelon is a little over blown - he is a top 15 pass rusher not a top 5 guy - not dissimilar to Orakpo actually) I can see it coming quickly. He had maybe his best season as a Bill in 2018 so it would be a stretch to think it might come in 2019 but anyone who claims to know he will be equally as productive in 2020 or 2021 when he is 32 and 33 is reaching in my view. At the price - which I agree by the way in $ per year is a good one - I am prepared to bear that risk for one year but two feels too much. 

 

My preference would be for the Bills to have given him new money now - in the form of a signing bonus amortised for cap purposes - that makes him count more on the cap in 2019 but reduces the dead money for 2021. If it is just a totally unaffected final year of his old deal plus two new years that are all but fully guaranteed then I think it is a bigger risk that I'd have taken. Now Jerry might still be super productive in 2021 at the age of 33 and prove well worth his $11m but nobody can tell me now that they know he will be. And that to me feels like a punt. I am not saying it is a bad contract just a risky one... and a risk beyond what I'd have taken. 

I can appreciate this.

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