Lawsuit: Giants fans say they have the "civil right" to use bad language/gestures against their team

[\GoBillsInDallas/]

https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/12/24/brothers-claim-arrest-at-levis-stadium-violated-free-speech/

[PatsFanNH]

When will idiots realize you need to “ READ YOUR TICKET” you have a code of conduct you have to follow to have the privledge of sitting in those seats.  They had every right to kick you out of the stadium.

 

mind you they had no right to arrest them and detain them like they did, just escort them out and like most morons get a lifetime ban from the stadium from the team.

[buffalobillswin]

I'm always in favor of more security at football games and rapid removal of some of the trash I see present at the stadium. 

 

My worst experience was seeing a grown man berate a 10 year old in the other team's jersey and watching other Bills fans cheer him on. Absolutely disgusting. 

[PatsFanNH]

Just now, buffalobillswin said:

I'm always in favor of more security at football games and rapid removal of some of the trash I see present at the stadium. 

 

My worst experience was seeing a grown man berate a 10 year old in the other team's jersey and watching other Bills fans cheer him on. Absolutely disgusting. 

That’s wrong no matter what sport it is.. why do people forget it’s just a game?!  We watch for entertainment and hopefully have a fun time at the field.  

 

Worse thing I saw was on the Pop Warner field where a group parents from the other team kept swearing and saying “they need cripple that little bleep! He has to hurt get in on the quarterback like that!”  (They were talking about my son.. took a lot of restraint not to yell at them and create a scene.)

[The Bills Blog]

9 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

That’s wrong no matter what sport it is.. why do people forget it’s just a game?!  We watch for entertainment and hopefully have a fun time at the field.  

 

Worse thing I saw was on the Pop Warner field where a group parents from the other team kept swearing and saying “they need cripple that little bleep! He has to hurt get in on the quarterback like that!”  (They were talking about my son.. took a lot of restraint not to yell at them and create a scene.)

It's not just a game. That's the most ridiculous argument. To the players on the field, and actually, the entire organization, it's about careers and livelihood.

Edited December 26, 2018 by The Bills Blog

[\GoBillsInDallas/]

9 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

That’s wrong no matter what sport it is.. why do people forget it’s just a game?!  We watch for entertainment and hopefully have a fun time at the field.  

 

Worse thing I saw was on the Pop Warner field where a group parents from the other team kept swearing and saying “they need cripple that little bleep! He has to hurt get in on the quarterback like that!”  (They were talking about my son.. took a lot of restraint not to yell at them and create a scene.)

 

[MILFHUNTER#518]

3 minutes ago, The Bills Blog said:

It's not just a game. That's the most ridiculous argument. To the players on the field, and actually, the entire organization, it's about careers and livelihood.

It is just a game. At the end of the day, nobody is bleeding and dying. Try using that argument to a combat soldier, an EMS or Police Officer.

 

 They are getting paid a lot of $$$ to play the sport they love. We are paying them for our amusement through ticket sales, merchandise, etc. There is no excuse for the way some of these fans behave. That guy that berated a 10 yr old little girl (read patricheat fan from nh's post) should be ashamed of himself, and the fans that cheered him on as well.

[PatsFanNH]

7 minutes ago, The Bills Blog said:

It's not just a game. That's the most ridiculous argument. To the players on the field, and actually, the entire organization, it's about careers and livelihood.

Umm I was talking about the fans in the stands??  It’s not our livelihoods or careers.. there is no need act like little jerks in the stands ever.. boo yes swear and flipping the. Off is just childish and goes against a lot of stadium rules that are on your ticket. 

[Beast]

32 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

When will idiots realize you need to “ READ YOUR TICKET” you have a code of conduct you have to follow to have the privledge of sitting in those seats.  They had every right to kick you out of the stadium.

 

mind you they had no right to arrest them and detain them like they did, just escort them out and like most morons get a lifetime ban from the stadium from the team.

 

How in hell do you know they had no right?

[PatsFanNH]

19 minutes ago, Binghamton Beast said:

 

How in hell do you know they had no right?

Because every ticket states they can remove you from your seat and the stadium for acts not in accordance with their fan code of conduct (then in fine fine print it tells you exactly what that is) simple fact is the first amendment right only protects you from the Goverment stopping you, not  from any consequences of your actions.  For example I can yell “Trump is stupid” and the goverment can’t arrest me for it, but my boss can fire me for it if he feels that hurts his company.  

 

Key pojnt being “arrest”  what they did was not illegal and in a very liberal state like CA what they did was at best wrongful imprisonment and if they really wanted to stretch it Kidnapping.

Edited December 26, 2018 by PatsFanNH

[zow2]

The first amendment right of "Free Speech" I thought pertained to government.  You're allowed to peacefully protest the U.S. government.  Am I wrong about that?  

 

It does not protect all speech against sports teams, the workplace or wherever.  There are consequences to shouting obscenities and flipping off....and the organization can choose to enforce whatever they need to.   That's what I think. 

[row_33]

1 hour ago, buffalobillswin said:

I'm always in favor of more security at football games and rapid removal of some of the trash I see present at the stadium. 

 

My worst experience was seeing a grown man berate a 10 year old in the other team's jersey and watching other Bills fans cheer him on. Absolutely disgusting. 

 

Was at a game, not a Giants, when a lout was asked to leave and got hostile with security and wound up having his toupee torn off his head.

 

 

[Boca BIlls]

12 minutes ago, zow2 said:

The first amendment right of "Free Speech" I thought pertained to government.  You're allowed to peacefully protest the U.S. government.  Am I wrong about that?  

 

It does not protect all speech against sports teams, the workplace or wherever.  There are consequences to shouting obscenities and flipping off....and the organization can choose to enforce whatever they need to.   That's what I think. 

You have the right to free speech, but you are responsible for those things said. And if those things are against a policy that a place, you are being let into to view their product, that company has the right also to kick you out. 

 

 

Edited December 26, 2018 by Boca BIlls

[GRHater69]

Maybe the players should kneel when the fans start swearing at them in protest!

 

 

[C.Biscuit97]

Those Giants fans should be sued for being idiots.

 

personally, I’ve never booed another man.  It’s weird.  What kind of loser do you need to verbally abuse another human?  Because you paid money? What a joke some people are.

 

and id also be in favor of saying whatever you want as long as players can go after you. So many cowards in the stands and on social media.  I think the world would benefit from more talk ?, get hit. 

[NewEra]

4 hours ago, \GoBillsInDallas/ said:

 

And we all know where she’s from.  Big shock

[C.Biscuit97]

5 hours ago, buffalobillswin said:

I'm always in favor of more security at football games and rapid removal of some of the trash I see present at the stadium. 

 

My worst experience was seeing a grown man berate a 10 year old in the other team's jersey and watching other Bills fans cheer him on. Absolutely disgusting. 

I can’t imagine bringing kids to a Footbsll game and that’s so sad.

[EasternOHBillsFan]

17 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

personally, I’ve never booed another man.  It’s weird.  What kind of loser do you need to verbally abuse another human?  Because you paid money? What a joke some people are.

 

You mean not even when this happened??? 

 

https://thejefflane.wordpress.com/2015/03/27/the-day-bryan-cox-flipped-me-off/

 

Yeah, OK... whatever.

Edited December 26, 2018 by EasternOHBillsFan

[C.Biscuit97]

1 minute ago, EasternOHBillsFan said:

 

You mean not even when this happened??? 

 

https://thejefflane.wordpress.com/2015/03/27/the-day-bryan-cox-flipped-me-off/

 

Yeah, OK... whatever.

That’s fine.  Personally, I feel weird booing another man but that’s me.  I also heard there were some other pretty awful comments being said but I wasn’t there.

[Beast]

4 hours ago, PatsFanNH said:

Because every ticket states they can remove you from your seat and the stadium for acts not in accordance with their fan code of conduct (then in fine fine print it tells you exactly what that is) simple fact is the first amendment right only protects you from the Goverment stopping you, not  from any consequences of your actions.  For example I can yell “Trump is stupid” and the goverment can’t arrest me for it, but my boss can fire me for it if he feels that hurts his company.  

 

Key pojnt being “arrest”  what they did was not illegal and in a very liberal state like CA what they did was at best wrongful imprisonment and if they really wanted to stretch it Kidnapping.

 

You have no idea what they did or didn’t do. Lazy, ineffective, DA’s offices around the country dismiss these types of crimes all the time.

 

I sure hope your profession isn’t in the legal field because you don’t know what you are speaking about. Not to mention you are taking their account of what happened as being what truly happened.

[Golden*Wheels]

I wasn't booing. I was saying "boo-urns".

 

 

[Augie]

30 minutes ago, NewEra said:

And we all know where she’s from.  Big shock

 

I wonder if Miss Potty Mouth was there representing Holy Family University?   

[TigerJ]

As a grandparent, I think I have a right to bring my grandchild to a game and not have him subjected to the kind of crap these low life fans in Joisey want to engage in.  Civil liberties were never intended to be absolute because what one person would judge to be his right would cause another person to have his rights infringed upon.  The law, and the interpretation thereof needs to seek a balance so that it's fair fro everybody, not just a self entitled handful.

[PatsFanNH]

40 minutes ago, Binghamton Beast said:

 

You have no idea what they did or didn’t do. Lazy, ineffective, DA’s offices around the country dismiss these types of crimes all the time.

 

I sure hope your profession isn’t in the legal field because you don’t know what you are speaking about. Not to mention you are taking their account of what happened as being what truly happened.

Wow you get worked up easily.   I was going by the only information we HAVE.  I also stated the two were idiots and their first amendment rights were not violated.. 

[ICanSleepWhenI'mDead]

1 hour ago, Binghamton Beast said:

 

You have no idea what they did or didn’t do. Lazy, ineffective, DA’s offices around the country dismiss these types of crimes all the time.

 

I sure hope your profession isn’t in the legal field because you don’t know what you are speaking about. Not to mention you are taking their account of what happened as being what truly happened.

 

Would you expect a senior staff attorney at the ACLU's Speech, Privacy and Technology Project to know about this stuff?

 

From https://www.marketplace.org/2017/08/08/business/speaking-out-workplace

 

"Lee Rowland, senior staff attorney at the ACLU's Speech, Privacy, and Technology Project, joined us to talk about the role the First Amendment has in cases like these and when companies can fire you.

David Brancaccio: I know you tend to focus on public employee free speech rights. But if someone works for the private sector, help us understand what the law says about our ability to say what we want in the workplace.

Lee Rowland: Well, the law doesn't say a lot about it. The First Amendment really only acts as a restraint on government. In fact, the first few words of the First Amendment are: Congress shall make no law restricting freedom of speech or of the press or religion. So when you work for the private sector and your employer is not the government, the Constitution gives you zero protection in terms of keeping your job based on what you say."

[oldmanfan]

This is a microcosm of what is wrong with our society at large.

[hmsmystic]

You can go to a game and say and do whatever you want.  BUT- there are repercussions for what you say and do.  Act like an a@@clown?  then you get thrown out, detained, banned etc.

 

Too bad for these people

[Kmart128]

While the Giants have to the right to remove anybody from the stadium... It still violates their rights if they are arrested for free speech. You can't be arrested for swearing. Forced to leave yes but not arrested.

[LSHMEAB]

13 minutes ago, hmsmystic said:

You can go to a game and say and do whatever you want.  BUT- there are repercussions for what you say and do.  Act like an a@@clown?  then you get thrown out, detained, banned etc.

 

Too bad for these people

I have no problem with people being kicked out for language as the events are sanctioned by the NFL and thus governed by their rules. I do have a problem with detention. That would indeed be a civil rights violation unless there was some kind of threat involved.

[C.Biscuit97]

3 minutes ago, Kmart128 said:

While the Giants have to the right to remove anybody from the stadium... It still violates their rights if they are arrested for free speech. You can't be arrested for swearing. Forced to leave yes but not arrested.

They should hold that tough guy fan and let him say it to the player’s face.  Cowards.

[LSHMEAB]

1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

They should hold that tough guy fan and let him say it to the player’s face.  Cowards.

Did you see Marcus Peters "interaction" with the abusive fan? Great stuff.

[C.Biscuit97]

Just now, LSHMEAB said:

Did you see Marcus Peters "interaction" with the abusive fan? Great stuff.

Yup.  Though given the way Peters fears contact, he probably would have run away if there was a real fight haha.

[boater]

6 hours ago, Binghamton Beast said:

 

How in hell do you know they had no right?

Case law limits the right to free speech.

 

Freedom of Speech in the constitution means you are free from the government in expressing thought. You have the right to express your opinion free of government interference.

 

OTH, you do not have the right to say in my living room whatever you want, I can throw you out for cussing, I can throw you out for supporting Pee Wee Herman. You do not have the right in my house to flip the bird at will.

 

Take that one level higher, as a visitor in an NFL stadium, you do not have right to say whatever you want. You do not have the right to cuss, or flip the bird. You have no rights after you purchased that ticket and entered into a contract agreeing to a Code of Conduct.

[The Senator]

 

Does anyone remember those Jim Kelly commercials, “Don’t rock the boat,” about fan behavior (back when Bills fans were considered by some to be the most ill-behaved fans in the league)?

 

Everyone has a right to cheer or boo any team.  No one has the right to be a drunken idiot, drop the f-bomb in front of a bunch of children, or generally ruin the fan experience for everyone around them.

.

 

[boater]

38 minutes ago, Kmart128 said:

While the Giants have to the right to remove anybody from the stadium... It still violates their rights if they are arrested for free speech. You can't be arrested for swearing. Forced to leave yes but not arrested.

I venture to guess... anyone being thrown out of a game for being a douche nozzle, who ends up arrested: was arrested not because of what they said but because they were shitbag while being escorted from the stadium.

 

I've never heard of anyone, anywhere, being arrested for what they said. (can't yell fire in a crowded theater exception applies)

[Nextmanup]

7 hours ago, PatsFanNH said:

That’s wrong no matter what sport it is.. why do people forget it’s just a game?!  We watch for entertainment and hopefully have a fun time at the field.  

 

Worse thing I saw was on the Pop Warner field where a group parents from the other team kept swearing and saying “they need cripple that little bleep! He has to hurt get in on the quarterback like that!”  (They were talking about my son.. took a lot of restraint not to yell at them and create a scene.)

There are a lot of losers in the world and they like to project their own failings by asking their children to achieve the success they were incapable of themselves in all sorts of pursuits.  

 

Sports is one of them.

 

It's a shame.  The dumber the person is, the more they are likely to engage in this behavior.

 

 

 

[Punching Bag]

33 minutes ago, ICanSleepWhenI'mDead said:

 

Would you expect a senior staff attorney at the ACLU's Speech, Privacy and Technology Project to know about this stuff?

 

From https://www.marketplace.org/2017/08/08/business/speaking-out-workplace

 

 

Not always.  This is an advocacy organization and it has declared "rights" not written in constitution. 

 

I worked at Naval Research Laboratory and there was a member of "Act Up" working there with condoms expanded on several displays in his office and was told to take them down by representative of company and he  refused. He was told it was not a request and still did not and was suspended.  He asked for ACLU for help and they tried to represent him stating his "free speech" rights were violated and finally court said no.  He then got DC involved and they stated that his act was covered under DC's laws which were more extensive than US's (ACLU did not attempt to us DC laws in court) and he was reinstated. 

 

After this government agency decided to terminate contract with company which was within their rights and they tried to get to state this was due to this one employee and government agency stated there were concerns about their performance and provided metrics stating they were not meeting them; he was one of the worst performers but not only one and this just gave them reason for early review. Customer lost contract and 90% of the employees were offered employment with new company except "Act Up" member and a few others.  All took a salary cut. 

 

You can declare all you want about free speech but there are limits and like a certain football player need to accept consequences of your actions if you decrease the value to your employer.

[RaoulDuke79]

1 hour ago, LSHMEAB said:

Did you see Marcus Peters "interaction" with the abusive fan? Great stuff.

I think Peters referred to him as the N word if I heard it correctly. That's not so great, unless you're being sarcastic. 

[oldmanfan]

The attorneys here can correct me if I'm wrong, but I always thought when you purchase a ticket with policies set forth by the team you enter into a contract.   And if you violate the terms of the contract you can be dismissed.  And if you then challenge authorities you can get arrested.

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

Boy goes to game, boys acts the fool, girl intercedes to help boy when he blows are being rained upon him, girl gets tossed into seat, boy gets tossed over the railing, boy and girl sue because they are actually civil rights activists. 

 

An American love story if I ever heard one.