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Bills offensive talent trade value.

PlayoffsPlease

By PlayoffsPlease
in The Stadium Wall Archives

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SCBills All Pro

SCBills

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All you really need to know about how bad the offensive talent is around Allen...

 

Would anyone object to cutting anyone outside of Allen, Foster, Dawkins, Teller and Zay?  

 

Even with that, Dawkins is possibly looking at a position change next year and Teller/Zay are purely potential that could be moved to depth in 2019.  

 

Foster is a rookie 2/3 playing WR1 this year.  

 

I mean.... 

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papazoid All Pro

papazoid

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50 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I’ll ask the question: what could we trade Allen for now?  

 

one first round pick.

 

if allen was in the upcoming draft....he might be the first QB off the board.

 

id say the Jets (4), Tampa (6) giants (8) jax (9) would all give us their pick for Allen.

 

and I only see Allen as a solid starter....never a Top 10 QB

 

 

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C.Biscuit97 Hall of Famer

C.Biscuit97

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3 minutes ago, papazoid said:

 

one first round pick.

 

if allen was in the upcoming draft....he might be the first QB off the board.

 

id say the Jets (4), Tampa (6) giants (8) jax (9) would all give us their pick for Allen.

 

and I only see Allen as a solid starter....never a Top 10 QB

 

 

I think Haskins would be the first qb off the board.  

 

For the sake of discussion:

 

- is Allen an improvement over Jameis?  As a guy he is, but Jameis is a much better passer

 

- giants could have taken Allen last year 

 

- the Jags probsbly would have Bortles flashbacks with Allen

 

- the Jets?

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PatsFanNH Veteran

PatsFanNH

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2 hours ago, 4merper4mer said:

Lol.

 

Khalil Mack is exceptional.  Name an offensive player on the Jets, Dolphins, or Pats that would get anything more than a 4th.  Darnold doesn't count.

 

I get a grand total of zero.  

Edelman get a second from a contender. And you know someone give us a first for Brady

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Shaw66 All Pro

Shaw66

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47 minutes ago, PlayoffsPlease said:

Your question on coaching and talent levels are not mutually exclusive.   The Browns in fear of being embarrassed hung on to a coach that was 3-36 during his tenure and the guy replacing him has gone 5-2 since.  This is exhibit A in the case against the insane idea that good coaching needs many years to show up in the results.  McDermott has a number of pretty ugly strikes against him.  Never winning a challenge.  His ridiculous inability to separate Allen from Peterman and McCarron early on,  clock management issues, and the problem he has with the team committing penalties.  Personally I think he is a prima donna that will never deliver the goods.  I will be happy to be wrong. 

I tend to be optimistic about McDermott, but you certainly could be right.   I've said it a few times.   There are a lot of things about the Bills over the past two years that are evidence that the coaching isn't as good as it should be.   Penalties.  The whole Peterman saga.  The absence of a veteran backup for Allen. 

 

However, there's a big learning curve to being a good head coach.   It takes years to learn to be really good at it, and there are plenty of examples of guys who weren't great at it to begin with, including Belichick and Gregg Williams.  So I'm willing to wait.  As I said, 2019 is when McDermott has HIS team, and when he's had a couple of years to learn things.  

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PlayoffsPlease Veteran

PlayoffsPlease

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28 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I tend to be optimistic about McDermott, but you certainly could be right.   I've said it a few times.   There are a lot of things about the Bills over the past two years that are evidence that the coaching isn't as good as it should be.   Penalties.  The whole Peterman saga.  The absence of a veteran backup for Allen. 

 

However, there's a big learning curve to being a good head coach.   It takes years to learn to be really good at it, and there are plenty of examples of guys who weren't great at it to begin with, including Belichick and Gregg Williams.  So I'm willing to wait.  As I said, 2019 is when McDermott has HIS team, and when he's had a couple of years to learn things.  

 

I hope you are right.  My main concern is that lessons don't seem to be learned. Same issues week in and week out.  Even in a game, nothing seems learnable.  I practically lost my mind on the fifth jet sweep that went for a big gain yesterday.  That seems like incompetence, not someone simply on a learning curve. 

 

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Buffalo03 Veteran

Buffalo03

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6 hours ago, mannc said:

Robbie Anderson, Kenny Still, Kenyan Drake, Gesecki, Ballage and probably quite a few offensive linemen who I couldn’t name.  

 

I think Dawkins is worth a fourth.  

You’re kidding, right?  He’s not worth a 7th, at this point.

It's not all him. We have one of the worst offensive lines in the league especially at run blocking. It's still LeSean McCoy

6 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

.......not if a GM values his job......

It's not all him. If you haven't noticed our run blocking sucks. Todd Gurley would be horrible behind our oline. Give me a break

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RocCityRoller Veteran

RocCityRoller

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11 hours ago, MrEpsYtown said:

I'd offer Zay Jones to the Chargers for Forrest Lamp and a late pick. Phil McGeoghan can get his boy back and the Chargers get a reciever to replace Tyrell Williams. 

 

Zay and and Lamp are both disappointing second round picks. Chargers throw in a late pick becuase Lamp hasn't actually played yet so they are getting the more know commodity. 

we'd be lucky to get Forrest Gump back.

 

heck I'd take Gump, at least he could return kicks

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klos63 Veteran

klos63

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12 hours ago, NewDayBills said:

Dion Dawkins and Robert Foster have value. It would take a 1st in my mind for us to let Dawkins go. Average LT, above average G. Foster's value is unclear, maybe he's worth a 2nd, I certainly wouldn't trade him for a 3rd. We got some value on offense, there's a couple guys.

You're basing Dawkins value on hopeful potential.  He'd be coming off a tough season so no GM would be generous in a trade offer. We are in a bad position with leverage in trades. After last season,  probably a 2nd

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Victory Formation Veteran

Victory Formation

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10 hours ago, klos63 said:

You're basing Dawkins value on hopeful potential.  He'd be coming off a tough season so no GM would be generous in a trade offer. We are in a bad position with leverage in trades. After last season,  probably a 2nd

You're right, that's absolutely what I'm doing. The few good players we have around Allen I value highly.. As it should be. I wouldn't sell my stocks prematurely if I felt the value was likely to climb even higher.

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Alphadawg7 Hall of Famer

Alphadawg7

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On 12/24/2018 at 6:31 AM, 4merper4mer said:

I knew someone would say that because he had a solid fantasy week.  He also has been in trouble and has had dime a dozen results overall.  I see a 4th for him but someone might cough up a 3rd.  I seriously doubt it.

 

Yup.  

 

Plus, Better WRs than Anderson got traded for a 4th many times.  He may not even get a 4th, could be a 5th with some kind of kicker that could turn into a 4th.  He’s been a sporadic producer.  Yet somehow he is still twice as good as any WR on the Bills ha...sad but true.

 

And why is the OP citing Khalil Mack (on defense) and then asking about our offense lol?  If we traded Tre White he would fetch at least a first, and probably more.  Young emerging top end corner on a rookie contract would fetch quite a bit.

 

And I guarantee that if we were to try and trade Josh Allen he would fetch more than we paid for him right now.

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dave mcbride Hall of Famer

dave mcbride

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On 12/24/2018 at 10:58 AM, Shaw66 said:

Whether you agree or not, McDermott believes that young players grow and improve from year to year.  I think if we could get McDermott to come on here and talk about his perception of the Bills' starting offensive talent, a lot of posters here would be disappointed.   I think McDermott would say that he thinks a lot of guys, including Croom, Foster, McKenzie, Jones, Dawkins, Miller, Teller and probably a few others will continue to improve. I also think he would say that as each guy improves, he makes the players around him better.   It's particularly true with Allen - as he plays better, all of his offensive teammates will play better.   But it's also true about linemen, and even about receivers. 

 

Many people have commented that what hurt the Bills more than anything else this season was losing Incognito and Wood.  That's true, and not simply because they played well, but because they also helped make the people beside them better.    It doesn't take a lot of new talent to have a big impact on the team.   Suppose, for example, that the Bills get a stud left tackle in the draft and a quality veteran guard in free agency.   What's the impact on the offensive line?   It could be huge.   Maybe move Dawkins to the right side, send Miller or Teller to the bench.  Those are two completely possible changes, things that could be done very comfortably within the Bills' draft situation and position and their cap space, causing no real disruption at all.  But they could mean a huge improvement in the offensive line.  Add one quality receiver to go with Foster and Jones (and maybe some better offensive line coaching), and think about what happens:  Run game improves (with or without Shady),  pass protection improves (and we've seen how well Allen throws when he has protection), receiving game improves and passing gets easier.   More importantly, think about the complementary effect of all those things:  running game improving makes play action more effective, which helps the passing game.  Play action effectiveness makes pass protection easier for the offensive line.  Having a complementary offense reduces three and outs, which helps the defense.   

 

I'd be amazed if the Bills clean house like some people would like to see.   I think the Bills go to camp with all of the people who end the season as starters (except for any retirements and free agent departures).   But I don't think they start the 2019 season with all those guys still starting, or even on the team.   I think what we're going to see is a lot of rookies and free agents in camp, AND WINNING JOBS.   We're going to see Milanos and Fosters and guys like that taking jobs from guys like Mills and Miller.   It's going to be the process in full bloom, with competitions at many, many positions, and the smartest, hardest working, toughest guys are going to win the jobs.   

 

For me the big question is whether McDermott has what it takes and whether he will have the right team of coaches to be able to compete with the best coaches in the league.  

Good post. I think Foster is a player who has the potential to be quite good, but they need a stud *and* a real #3 because Jones looks very low-ceiling to me. I suspect a decent #3 can be found in FA or, say,  the 3rd-4th round. I wouldn't hitch my wagon to Jones after what I've seen, but perhaps he continues to improve. 

28 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Then McDermott won't be here past 2019 because the team will suck.

 

McKenzie, Jones, Miller, Croom, and even Foster are not starting NFL players. They should be back ups or role players in just about every quality NFL offense. 

 

To your point about adding one quality receiver to go with Foster and Jones, that receiver needs to be among the best in the league to have that type of impact with this sad group of recievers. I've discussed it before, but a trade for Julio Jones(along with upgrades on the offensive line)would do wonders for this team. 

Foster appears to be better than what you're pegging him at here. He gets open, he has good hands, and he can blow by good CBs. 

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