You’re GM of Giants...Do you take Barkley still in a redraft or Allen/Other QB?

[NewEra]

6 minutes ago, Dadonkadonk said:

There is no QB in 2019 that is the equal of the top 4 QB drafted in 2018.  There isn't one that should even be drafted in the first round though I'm sure a few will be overvalued. 

I’ll leave that up to the professionals to decide.  

[blacklabel]

I know Eli's best days are long gone at this point but Barkley is easily the ROTY and has been almost the entire offense for the Giants this season. Kid is electrifying. Still, I can see the questioning of going with an RB at #2 overall but he's the kind of player you take at #2, he's a game changer.

[Alphadawg7]

10 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

I think it’s too high personally.

 

Hunt, Kamara, David Johnson, Leveon Bell. Just a few guys to name that were taken in the 2nd round or later and are close or at equal talent as Barkley. 

 

There are also tons of other good RBs that you can get late rounds or even undrafted. Like Lindsay or Breida. Not too say those guys are Barkley good, but my point is you can find good RBs in the late rounds, and very good RBS in the 2nd-3rd round range

 

 

I get what you are saying, but isn’t that true for all positions?  I mean looking around the league there are so many of the Elite players, some the best to ever play that all come from rounds 2 and on.

 

Just stating with QBs, take the consensus top 4 QBs the last handful of years, only one was even taken first round and it was bottom of the first (Rodgers).  They are Rodgers, Brady, Wilson, Brees.  

 

I get why why people say that about RB, but it’s really true for all positions.  I do get that RB is an easier position to find a productive player at, but it’s more to do with the fact that a decent RB can be great in the right situation too.  It comes down to OL, system, and how they are used.  However, rare and special talents can succeed just about anywhere like Barry Sanders did for so long behind what was never a good OL.  Can you imagine what Sanders would have done had he played on Emmits Cowboy teams or behind the current Cowboys OL the last few years?

 

For example, look at what would happen if Buffalo had either Barkley or Lindsey this year.   I would bet that Barkley would significantly out produce and be better here than if we had Lindsey.  

[BillsFan130]

5 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I get what you are saying, but isn’t that true for all positions?  I mean looking around the league there are so many of the Elite players, some the best to ever play that all come from rounds 2 and on.

 

Just stating with QBs, take the consensus top 4 QBs the last handful of years, only one was even taken first round and it was bottom of the first (Rodgers).  They are Rodgers, Brady, Wilson, Brees.  

 

I get why why people say that about RB, but it’s really true for all positions.  I do get that RB is an easier position to find a productive player at, but it’s more to do with the fact that a decent RB can be great in the right situation too.  It comes down to OL, system, and how they are used.  However, rare and special talents can succeed just about anywhere like Barry Sanders did for so long behind what was never a good OL.  Can you imagine what Sanders would have done had he played on Emmits Cowboy teams or behind the current Cowboys OL the last few years?

 

For example, look at what would happen if Buffalo had either Barkley or Lindsey this year.   I would bet that Barkley would significantly out produce and be better here than if we had Lindsey.  

Fair points. I’m just saying if you have a chance at a franchise QB like the Giants did, I don’t think you should pass on it.

 

As we know as Bills fans, we have seen some good if not great running backs the last 10 years on this franchise. But it really doesn’t matter if you don’t have that franchise QB.

 

Also if you’re drafting at 2, I can almost guarantee you have way more needs than a RB. You most likely have QB issues, o line issues, and defensive issues to start. 

 

Now if a very good team like NE or KC was picking at 2 via a trade and they ended up getting that high pick, then that’s a different story.

[John from Riverside]

You just dont take running backs that high....no matter how good they are.

[Alphadawg7]

2 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

Fair points. I’m just saying if you have a chance at a franchise QB like the Giants did, I don’t think you should pass on it.

 

As we know as Bills fans, we have seen some good if not great running backs the last 10 years on this franchise. But it really doesn’t matter if you don’t have that franchise QB.

 

Also if you’re drafting at 2, I can almost guarantee you have way more needs than a RB. You most likely have QB issues, o line issues, and defensive issues to start. 

 

Now if a very good team like NE or KC was picking at 2 via a trade and they ended up getting that high pick, then that’s a different story.

 

Agreed, and mentioned all the same things myself earlier in this thread too.  And it’s why I personally voted Allen

[BillsFan130]

3 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Agreed, and mentioned all the same things myself earlier in this thread too.  And it’s why I personally voted Allen

Ahh ok sorry I didn’t read the full post

[Dadonkadonk]

21 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I’ll leave that up to the professionals to decide.  

The ones that are wrong 50% of the time. Sure thing. 

Justin Herbert is the consensus best at this point. He hasn't even had one signature win. Puts up lots of stats against lower tier teams. No big wins.

[Ramza86]

Hes done a lot for that garbage team. 

 

Hes def the guy you want to workhorse while you find the QB youre happy with.

[Alphadawg7]

140 votes in:

 

Lamar Jackson - 1

Josh Rosen - Still Zero

 

LMAO - So much for the “WRONG JOSH” crowd sticking by their proclamations, even Lamar has a vote lol.  

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

I voted other, just so I could mention I’d fire myself 

[Royale with Cheese]

I think I'm in the current mind set that you don't take a RB that high...especially when there's a good crop of QB prospects like last year.

 

I expect them to make a strong move for Flacco in the offseason....along with the Jags.

[Alphadawg7]

2 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

I think I'm in the current mind set that you don't take a RB that high...especially when there's a good crop of QB prospects like last year.

 

I expect them to make a strong move for Flacco in the offseason....along with the Jags.

 

Actually I think they are going to go after Carr.  Flacco could be in play if they don’t land Carr, but I don’t know he’s much of an upgrade over Eli.

[BuffaloHokie13]

14 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

140 votes in:

 

Lamar Jackson - 1

Josh Rosen - Still Zero

 

LMAO - So much for the “WRONG JOSH” crowd sticking by their proclamations, even Lamar has a vote lol.  

I'd still take Rosen personally. But in this exercise I am the GM of the Giants. I do not think Rosen has the temperament or filter to be in or near NYC.

[Royale with Cheese]

3 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Actually I think they are going to go after Carr.  Flacco could be in play if they don’t land Carr, but I don’t know he’s much of an upgrade over Eli.

 

Even with his regression...Carr will still command at least one first round pick?

[GoBills808]

I never draft an RB w/ a top5 pick. Don't care how good he might be. Value isn't there

[/dev/null]

Barkely was the best player in the draft and has played up to his potential.

[Alphadawg7]

22 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Even with his regression...Carr will still command at least one first round pick?

 

Yeah, I think they would offer their first rounder this year which will likely be out of the top 10 and not one they can use to get their desired QB without a costly trade up.  Raiders however will likely pick top 3 and take their successor to Carr there and use the Giants pick with their other firsts to jump start the rebuild.

26 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

I'd still take Rosen personally. But in this exercise I am the GM of the Giants. I do not think Rosen has the temperament or filter to be in or near NYC.

 

Fair enough...still shocks me Lamar has 1 vote and none for Rosen with around 80 votes casted for one of the QB's given how many people here were so vocal about Rosen and the "wrong Josh" stances.  

[BuffaloHokie13]

5 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Fair enough...still shocks me Lamar has 1 vote and none for Rosen with around 80 votes casted for one of the QB's given how many people here were so vocal about Rosen and the "wrong Josh" stances.  

True. I can only speak for myself. I went with Darnold for the poll.

[Captain Hindsight]

1 hour ago, billspro said:

 

It was a horrible pick. Like I said, he is probably good enough to cause them to win enough games to be in QB purgatory for the next decade. Never pass on a QB.

Right?

 

How many years we were in QB purgatory because CJ Spiller had a great game and got us the 3rd pick instead of the 1st?

 

Barkley is an elite talent. Tough to pass on, should have taken Darnold or Allen

[Jay_Fixit]

1 hour ago, BillsFan130 said:

And yet the Giants still suck because they have been inconsistent at the QB position all year and they have a hard time protecting the QB

They haven’t sucked because of Manning whatsoever. And they drafted a QB later.

 

Barkley at least keeps the offense relevant before other positions get better.

 

Awful post. 

[GoBills808]

18 minutes ago, Jay_Fixit said:

They haven’t sucked because of Manning whatsoever. And they drafted a QB later.

 

Barkley at least keeps the offense relevant before other positions get better.

 

Awful post. 

Tell us how you really feel though. 

[Kirby Jackson]

2 hours ago, mannc said:

But Lindsey’s not really much of an outlier.  Because of the position he plays, Chubb would have been a better pick than Barkley.

I don’t disagree that there are other viable options. My point is just that Barkley is a perfectly reasonable option. He’s a superstar. You need a few of them. He can score from anywhere on the field. He certainly not a bad pick. 

[Jay_Fixit]

8 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Tell us how you really feel though. 

It was the man bun of posts.

Edited December 14, 2018 by Jay_Fixit

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, Dadonkadonk said:

The ones that are wrong 50% of the time. Sure thing. 

Justin Herbert is the consensus best at this point. He hasn't even had one signature win. Puts up lots of stats against lower tier teams. No big wins.

Yeah, maybe I’ll trust your opinion over there’s.  Sure thing.

 

Herbert is similar to Josh Allen.  According to many, Allen was a 2nd or 3rd rd prospect.  Nobody was trading into the top 3 for mahomes or Watson, but now teams would Ben thinning differently.  All it takes is for Herbert, Haskins or whoever they draft to become This year’s version of mahomes or Watson.  Overlooked as worthy of a top 3 pick that slip out of the top 10 and become the franchise QBs.  Whoever they draft has a chance to be that guy 

[Alphadawg7]

2 hours ago, billspro said:

 

It was a horrible pick. Like I said, he is probably good enough to cause them to win enough games to be in QB purgatory for the next decade. Never pass on a QB.

 

That is actually a very good point, and it's already showing up this very next draft.  Instead of being in position to draft high to get their QB, they are staring down the barrel of dropping between 10 and 20 now depending how these remaining games go.  And with a punchers chance to still squeak into the playoffs if they can win out, they certainly will try even though they won't get very far once inside.  

 

That was what the Bills were so frustrating at doing...they weren't good at sucking.  They would always do just enough to miss out on the key QB prospects while also not being good enough to make the playoffs.  How many years in a row were we 7-9 again, like 3 or 4?  I mean we sucked back then but just kept shooting our selves in the foot.  And good point about Spiller as a comparison on how our run game (combined with Freddy) got us a few more wins each year while we had a putrid QB forcing us to miss out on drafting the better ones and instead getting stuck taking one in the worst QB draft in decades.

 

The one thing going for the Giants this year though is that there are some Vets, more than usual, that can be at least an adequate starter.  I could see Eli coming back, or grabbing someone like Fitz, Foles, Flacco, or Teddy.  The problem is, they dont have that defense like they did when Eli led them to 2 Super Bowls, so having a solid Vet won't be enough unless they get that defense built back up.  This is why I think they will offer their first round pick to the Raiders for Carr, who could see a major resurgence in NY playing with those WR's and TE along with Barkley.  

 

If they don't go after Carr or try and don't get him, out of all the other vet choices, I think I would be most intrigued by Teddy since he at least has potential to be a longer term starter where as the others are just aging Vet stop gaps at this point.

[mannc]

38 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I don’t disagree that there are other viable options. My point is just that Barkley is a perfectly reasonable option. He’s a superstar. You need a few of them. He can score from anywhere on the field. He certainly not a bad pick. 

He’s certainly no bust...nor was there any chance he would be.

[BillsFan130]

54 minutes ago, Jay_Fixit said:

They haven’t sucked because of Manning whatsoever. And they drafted a QB later.

 

Barkley at least keeps the offense relevant before other positions get better.

 

Awful post. 

They haven't sucked because of Manning? 18th in yards per game, 16th in points scored with an amazing RB and a star receiver.

 

Eli has absolutely no mobility left. He takes way too many sacks and he settles for way too many check downs

 

Inconsistent QB play and a mediocre line is the reason for their below average offence. 

 

 

[Juice_32]

I love Allen, but I'd go Darnold. Long term I think his odds of being a sure thing are better. Lower ceiling, higher floor. 

[Doc Brown]

2 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

140 votes in:

 

Lamar Jackson - 1

Josh Rosen - Still Zero

 

LMAO - So much for the “WRONG JOSH” crowd sticking by their proclamations, even Lamar has a vote lol.  

When you had Rosen rated at #3 and Allen at #4 behind Darnold and Mayfield, you obviously go with Darnold in this hypothetical if you think the Giants made the wrong move.

Edited December 14, 2018 by Doc Brown

[Alphadawg7]

6 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

When you had Rosen rated at #3 and Allen at #4 behind Darnold and Mayfield, you obviously go with Darnold in this hypothetical if you think the Giants made the wrong move.

 

Of course, but there were a lot of people who said Rosen was either 2nd behind Mayfield or the overall best QB, most pro ready, etc.  And Darnold hasn't done much more than Rosen on the field this year.  So not like Darnold came out and did a lot to win over the pro Rosen people who had Rosen ranked above him.  

 

I did fully expect Allen and Darnold to lead the pack in this poll, but as we sit Rosen still has zero votes and even Lamar has 1 and other has a few.  

[Doc Brown]

1 minute ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Of course, but there were a lot of people who said Rosen was either 2nd behind Mayfield or the overall best QB, most pro ready, etc.  And Darnold hasn't done much more than Rosen on the field this year.  So not like Darnold came out and did a lot to win over the pro Rosen people who had Rosen ranked above him.  

 

I did fully expect Allen and Darnold to lead the pack in this poll, but as we sit Rosen still has zero votes and even Lamar has 1 and other has a few.  

Obviously whoever had Rosen rated #1 are obviously disappointed at his performance so far with the Cardinals.  

[dollars 2 donuts]

14 hours ago, NewEra said:

Prior to the draft I thought they made a huge mistake passing on a QB.  As it stands, they may end up getting the best qb in the draft next year and may not have to give up much to do so.  If they can get a solid franchise qb this year, I’d say they made the right move.  

 

Unless josh Allen reaches his potential of course.  At that point, they had messed up

 

 

Couldn't agree more, NewEra and I have been thinking about this since the Fall. 

 

Sure, they have to endure a lot of pain these last two years, but they may be nicely set-up for the future.

[Alphadawg7]

6 hours ago, dollars 2 donuts said:

 

 

Couldn't agree more, NewEra and I have been thinking about this since the Fall. 

 

Sure, they have to endure a lot of pain these last two years, but they may be nicely set-up for the future.

 

I dont think they are going to be in position to get the best QB in the draft, they have an outside shot at playoffs and won 4 of last 5.  They are gonna play hard down the stretch, so I think they most likely finish in the "teens" in terms of draft position.  That would make a trade up quite expensive.  But like I said earlier, I have a feeling they will offer what ever first round pick they get to Raiders for Carr and then Raiders might bite and grab their QB at #3 with their own Pick.  

Edited December 15, 2018 by Alphadawg7

[billspro]

7 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

That is actually a very good point, and it's already showing up this very next draft.  Instead of being in position to draft high to get their QB, they are staring down the barrel of dropping between 10 and 20 now depending how these remaining games go.  And with a punchers chance to still squeak into the playoffs if they can win out, they certainly will try even though they won't get very far once inside.  

 

That was what the Bills were so frustrating at doing...they weren't good at sucking.  They would always do just enough to miss out on the key QB prospects while also not being good enough to make the playoffs.  How many years in a row were we 7-9 again, like 3 or 4?  I mean we sucked back then but just kept shooting our selves in the foot.  And good point about Spiller as a comparison on how our run game (combined with Freddy) got us a few more wins each year while we had a putrid QB forcing us to miss out on drafting the better ones and instead getting stuck taking one in the worst QB draft in decades.

 

The one thing going for the Giants this year though is that there are some Vets, more than usual, that can be at least an adequate starter.  I could see Eli coming back, or grabbing someone like Fitz, Foles, Flacco, or Teddy.  The problem is, they dont have that defense like they did when Eli led them to 2 Super Bowls, so having a solid Vet won't be enough unless they get that defense built back up.  This is why I think they will offer their first round pick to the Raiders for Carr, who could see a major resurgence in NY playing with those WR's and TE along with Barkley.  

 

If they don't go after Carr or try and don't get him, out of all the other vet choices, I think I would be most intrigued by Teddy since he at least has potential to be a longer term starter where as the others are just aging Vet stop gaps at this point.

 

They could definitely get lucky and hit on a vet QB. But Barkley is good enough to keep them 6-9 win range if they don’t. Which is exactly why the Bills never had a chance at a QB.

[dollars 2 donuts]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I dont think they are going to be in position to get the best QB in the draft, they are have an outside shot at playoffs and won 4 of last 5.  They are gonna play hard down the stretch, so I think they most likely finish in the "teens" in terms of draft position.  That would make a trade up quite expensive.  But like I said earlier, I have a feeling they will offer what ever first round pick they get to Raiders for Carr and they might bite and grab their QB at #3 with their own Pick.  

 

 

That’s interesting, Alpha.

 

Barkley is Bette than I thought he would be, but maybe I just was being fair to him because I wanted the Giants to trade with us.

[papazoid]

they absolutely screwed up by not taking a QB. you don't get many chances to draft that high.

 

they got a heck of a player instead...…(mahomes/ tre'davious anyone ?)

 

they may bail themselves out in this years draft if they can get a good QB

[LABILLBACKER]

A chance at a franchise qb will always outweigh a marquee rb who can be found in any round. Now the Giants are stuck with an aging Eli and no great prospects projected in the next year or 2.

[jr1]

hard to predict something weird like the incident with Lauletta and the traffic police

[papazoid]

On ‎12‎/‎15‎/‎2018 at 5:58 PM, papazoid said:

they absolutely screwed up by not taking a QB. you don't get many chances to draft that high.

 

they got a heck of a player instead...…(mahomes/ tre'davious anyone ?)

 

they may bail themselves out in this years draft if they can get a good QB

 

one less first round QB

 

Justin Herbert announces he'll return to Oregon

 

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/justin-herbert-announces-hell-return-to-oregon/