Josh Allen's progress

[JoPar_v2]

20 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Honestly did not see the “Allen/Peterman = Kelly/Reich” thread.  Talk about an insult to Reich lol...

 

But the MVP thread was more about enthusiasm than a declaration, at least how I took it.  I don’t really see an issue with enthusiasm about the future, not like they are making concrete declarations of what he IS, just some people excited about what they believe he will become.  Other People are calling him a bust now though.

 

And honestly it’s possible for Allen to be in those convos next year.  Guys like Goff, Wentz, Carr and Mahomes all were in those convos 2nd year and most struggled as a rookie.  So is it a “lock” he will be, of course not, but this team has a lot of good bones around it similar to Rams and Bears during their QBs rookie years where they both struggled.  If we get Allen the right help this year, it’s not unreasonable to think he could take a big leap next year.

 

Maybe and if certain people want to be that enthusiastic that’s fine and they should be ready and willing to take some criticism from some more realistic people on here. I don’t even mind josh allen he’s blown away my expectations for him this year but I find myself defending his critics just because they’re getting killed here recently.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

24 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

Allen’s two INT’s were HORRIBLE...and without significant rushing yards his performances become well below average.  

 

 

He needs a LOT of improvement at the start of next season just to be a middle of the pack QB. 

What about Toms 2 INT’s?

 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

The best thing about Allen is his ability to come up big under pressure which was show cased on his TD throw. Just needs to work on the easier stuff.

 

 

[Foxx]

28 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Good point about Arian's.  Do you think he was auditioning for the Bills head coaching job?  he lavished a lot of praise on the Pegula's and the Bill's chances in the future. 

 

The sense I got from Arian's comments were that on the one hand he was frustrated with Allen but in a good way.  He kept comparing Allen's play to Andrew Luck's game when he was a rookie. 

i think Ariens is on record as saying the only HC job he would want or accept is Clevelands.

[JoPar_v2]

11 minutes ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

The best thing about Allen is his ability to come up big under pressure which was show cased on his TD throw. Just needs to work on the easier stuff.

 

 

 

This is perfectly reasonable and accurate. We need more takes like this.

[Heitz]

45 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

Allen’s two INT’s were HORRIBLE...and without significant rushing yards his performances become well below average.  

 

He needs a LOT of improvement at the start of next season just to be a middle of the pack QB. 

 

And his 1 or 2 missed / dropped potential TDs were also horrible...

[Socal-805]

 

There is none.

 

[Augie]

28 minutes ago, JoPar_v2 said:

 

Maybe and if certain people want to be that enthusiastic that’s fine and they should be ready and willing to take some criticism from some more realistic people on here. I don’t even mind josh allen he’s blown away my expectations for him this year but I find myself defending his critics just because they’re getting killed here recently.

 

You’re blown away, but you defend his critics because they take heat? Classic! How about just not going to one extreme or the other?  

 

For me, he’s a bit better than I expected, but he has a long way to go. I am generally optimistic. Are you the judge of who is realistic? I think realistic is more toward the middle. Leaning toward the middle is not torching the negative folks, it’s just having a reasonable opinion. 

 

You’re all over, I can’t keep up. 

[Success]

It’s not like rookie development is supposed to follow some straight line, always showing improvement.

[Trogdor]

1 hour ago, CincyBillsFan said:

The 2 INT's were very bad passes but they only led to 3 NE points. 

 

Allen also had several passes that on ALMOST ANY OTHER NFL TEAM would have resulted in TD's. 

I think this gets thrown out a lot even when it's a low percentage pass. There are certainly some drops, but more often it's a bad throw that they could've but didn't haul in.

2 hours ago, Augie said:

 

He’s a rookie against BB, and his WR’s dropped multiple TD’s. He is EXPECTED to make mistakes! How do people NOT get that???

Those weren't fooled by the defense interceptions, they we're just awful throws. I feel like you try too hard to absolve him of his mistakes.

[zonabb]

Honestly want this kid to be the franchise. Love the attitude. Love competitiveness and fire. Love the leadership. Everything a team wants as far as the intangibles. 

 

But with that, I see zero progress, which pains me to say. Still horribly inaccurate. Can't overcome bad OL and WR play when you're at fault a lot for bad passes. Sorry but too much blame being paid to drops and too many "but his adjusted completion percentage..." homers who refuse to let their eyes and not their hearts judge. He's not improved here one bit. Part of that is likely because his footwork is still horrible. Today he threw many bad passes off his back foot, relying on his arm strength but that can't overcome bad mechanics. And I think he's slow to process the game, both pre-snap reads and progressions. 

 

7 TDs in 11 starts is a joke in this league. Part of it is a bad supporting cast but we've seen soooo many QBs with bad players around them at least overcome some of that and show promise. He's been outplayed by Mayfield and Darnold (queue the "they were drafted ahead of him so it's not the Bills fault... not a legit counter when they had draft capital and by all accounts were in love with this guy). And he's not looking better than Rosen. 

 

I'm not saying this because I want him to suck. I just spent about 20 minutes looking up the first few years of some great QBs since 2004, looking for bad rookie years followed by improvement. They exist. I want this guy to be it. But I never wanted him because he was the prototype I hate and rarely every succeeds...physical freak with years of embedded bad habits that are hard to overcome. We're see this now. 

 

If he comes out next week and plays like this again, we go into the offseason wondering what this guy is. Been watching every second of every game because of him and I'm not seeing the progress I had hoped and we're running out of season. If this week's performance is the same next week.... I'm wondering if anyone can honestly say there's improvement?

 

[Alphadawg7]

39 minutes ago, JoPar_v2 said:

 

Maybe and if certain people want to be that enthusiastic that’s fine and they should be ready and willing to take some criticism from some more realistic people on here. I don’t even mind josh allen he’s blown away my expectations for him this year but I find myself defending his critics just because they’re getting killed here recently.

 

All good, but there are a lot of critics who bring it on themselves, you have to admit that.  Some of these guys are over the top negative and its rooted to hating the pick, not what Allen is doing on the field. 

 

See, you are at least acknowledging there has been positive, while many refuse to acknowledge it and cherry pick a stat to prove he sucks and is a bust.  I mean there was a thread today about replacing him already next year as if the kid hasn’t earned the right to be the unquestioned starter yet for his second year.  

[billspro]

1 hour ago, LabattBlue said:

Allen’s two INT’s were HORRIBLE...and without significant rushing yards his performances become well below average.  

 

 

He needs a LOT of improvement at the start of next season just to be a middle of the pack QB. 

 

The ints were bad, but you should be able to trust your WR to at least knock those down. 

[Augie]

2 minutes ago, Trogdor said:

I think this gets thrown out a lot even when it's a low percentage pass. There are certainly some drops, but more often it's a bad throw that they could've but didn't haul in.

Those weren't fooled by the defense interceptions, they we're just awful throws. I feel like you try too hard to absolve him of his mistakes.

 

...and I feel like you have impaired reading comprehension. Rookie QB’s make mistakes against BB defenses. Fact. He made mistakes. I said it! Now go troll elsewhere. You are boring. 

[Alphadawg7]

3 minutes ago, zonabb said:

Honestly want this kid to be the franchise. Love the attitude. Love competitiveness and fire. Love the leadership. Everything a team wants as far as the intangibles. 

 

But with that, I see zero progress, which pains me to say. Still horribly inaccurate. Can't overcome bad OL and WR play when you're at fault a lot for bad passes. Sorry but too much blame being paid to drops and too many "but his adjusted completion percentage..." homers who refuse to let their eyes and not their hearts judge. He's not improved here one bit. Part of that is likely because his footwork is still horrible. Today he threw many bad passes off his back foot, relying on his arm strength but that can't overcome bad mechanics. And I think he's slow to process the game, both pre-snap reads and progressions. 

 

7 TDs in 11 starts is a joke in this league. Part of it is a bad supporting cast but we've seen soooo many QBs with bad players around them at least overcome some of that and show promise. He's been outplayed by Mayfield and Darnold (queue the "they were drafted ahead of him so it's not the Bills fault... not a legit counter when they had draft capital and by all accounts were in love with this guy). And he's not looking better than Rosen. 

 

I'm not saying this because I want him to suck. I just spent about 20 minutes looking up the first few years of some great QBs since 2004, looking for bad rookie years followed by improvement. They exist. I want this guy to be it. But I never wanted him because he was the prototype I hate and rarely every succeeds...physical freak with years of embedded bad habits that are hard to overcome. We're see this now. 

 

If he comes out next week and plays like this again, we go into the offseason wondering what this guy is. Been watching every second of every game because of him and I'm not seeing the progress I had hoped and we're running out of season. If this week's performance is the same next week.... I'm wondering if anyone can honestly say there's improvement?

 

 

A week ago, Allen was considered widely by many as the 2nd most impressive rookie QB.  Now after a tough week in NE in a game NE must win, suddenly he sucks and Darnold is god?  This is the fundamental issue with this board, too many people make NEW concrete declarations every week based on one game.  If Allen smokes Dolphins he will be god again...its incredibly annoying.  

 

This kids career is not going to be impacted by a rough game on the road in NE today.  In fact, he will learn a lot more from him mistakes than successes right now. This is the time to put them on tape to study.  

 

The weekly over reaction to good and bad things every week around here is out of control.

Edited December 24, 2018 by Alphadawg7

[billspro]

16 minutes ago, Heitz said:

 

And his 1 or 2 missed / dropped potential TDs were also horrible...

 

I thought Zay Jones, Foster, and Thomas could have brought those back shoulder throws in. If we had a guy like Hopkins those are all TDs.

[vincec]

Just now, billspro said:

 

I thought Zay Jones, Foster, and Thomas could have brought those back shoulder throws in. If we had a guy like Hopkins those are all TDs.

If they had Jerry Rice and Randy Moss then he might have even completed more than 50% of his passes today.

[Heitz]

1 minute ago, billspro said:

 

I thought Zay Jones, Foster, and Thomas could have brought those back shoulder throws in. If we had a guy like Hopkins those are all TDs.

 

How about an AB type?  O_O

[Augie]

6 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

A week ago, Allen was considered widely by many as the 2nd most impressive rookie QB.  Now after a though week in NE in a game NE must win, suddenly he sucks and Darnold is god?  This is the fundamental issue with this board, too many people make NEW concrete decelerations every week based on one game.  If Allen smokes Dolphins he will be god again...its incredibly annoying.  

 

This kids career is not going to be impacted by a rough game on the road in NE today.  In fact, he will learn a lot more from him mistakes than successes right now. This is the time to put them on tape to study.  

 

The weekly over reaction to good and bad things every week around here is out of control.

 

While I generally agree with this, I feel the haters are more extreme in their over-reaction. It validates them. I think the “pro-Allen” people are far more restrained. Heck, I don’t KNOW, but I like a lot of what I see. 

3 minutes ago, vincec said:

If they had Jerry Rice and Randy Moss then he might have even completed more than 50% of his passes today.

 

And had 400+ yards with 4 TD’s. Let’s try that! 

 

Sadly, that was not the case. 

Edited December 24, 2018 by Augie

[Alphadawg7]

1 minute ago, Augie said:

 

While I generally agree with this, I feel the haters are more extreme in their over-reaction. I validates them. I think the “pro-Allen” people are far more restrained. Heck, I don’t KNOW, but I like a lot of what I see. 

 

I agree a million percent with this...well said.  

 

Like I said earlier, I called this during the week that if Josh has a tough game in NE the haters will come out hard and fast and ignore all the positives of the last 4 weeks.  

[Foxx]

i put way more blame on the play calling today than on anything Allen did.

[thenorthremembers]

Just now, Foxx said:

i put way more blame on the play calling today than on anything Allen did.

Along the same line I put the blame of his playmakers inability to do anything with the opportunities he gives them.  Josh isn't perfect but there isn't a qb in the NFL that is.  Difference is teams usually have a wideout that makes plays like Robert foster missed.  McKenzie was horrendous today.  Logan Thomas had a beautiful opportunity.  Croom screwed the pooch and they have no running game to speak of.

 

He is the only playmaker they have on offense right now and his stats are lopsided because of it.  It could have easily been a three touchdown day but his warts are magnified because of the talent he has around him.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

11 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I agree a million percent with this...well said.  

 

Like I said earlier, I called this during the week that if Josh has a tough game in NE the haters will come out hard and fast and ignore all the positives of the last 4 weeks.  

 

That’s a no brainer. They’ve been lurking.

[JoPar_v2]

36 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

All good, but there are a lot of critics who bring it on themselves, you have to admit that.  Some of these guys are over the top negative and its rooted to hating the pick, not what Allen is doing on the field. 

 

See, you are at least acknowledging there has been positive, while many refuse to acknowledge it and cherry pick a stat to prove he sucks and is a bust.  I mean there was a thread today about replacing him already next year as if the kid hasn’t earned the right to be the unquestioned starter yet for his second year.  

 

Hell yes there are a lot of positives from Allen. Way more than I thought there would be at this point in his career given where he’s from; the jump in talent level and all that. Only thing I am really saying is the hyperbolic positive stuff about Allen should calm down a bit. And, if it doesn’t, then people calling that stuff out as homerism and maybe a little premature should not be branded as trolls or haters.

 

people on a mission to hate Josh Allen ignoring his progress and positives get no love from me though.

[Trogdor]

1 hour ago, Augie said:

 

...and I feel like you have impaired reading comprehension. Rookie QB’s make mistakes against BB defenses. Fact. He made mistakes. I said it! Now go troll elsewhere. You are boring. 

It had nothing to do with a BB defense. He wasn't exactly great with turnovers in college either. He mad bad throws. Adding the BB defense part is an attempt to absolve him and you do it a lot. When you take away his ability to run, he becomes a mediocre at best QB. If you can't handle differing opinions then maybe a message board isn't for you. 

[VW82]

Hard to say you had a good day when the offense only scores three points (outside of turnovers and garbage time). That said, it does feel like Allen’s accuracy is improving. There were definitely a few where he missed the dart board altogether but for the most part it felt like the vast majority of incompletions were some combination of screw up by the receiver, bad play calling, and/or poor decision making by Josh. I really hope that last part improves substantially in year two because right now it’s still bad even for a rookie QB. He just seems unable (or unwilling) to take easy yards when they’re staring him in the face.

Edited December 24, 2018 by VW82

[Augie]

1 minute ago, Trogdor said:

It had nothing to do with a BB defense. He wasn't exactly great with turnovers in college either. He mad bad throws. Adding the BB defense part is an attempt to absolve him and you do it a lot. When you take away his ability to run, he becomes a mediocre at best QB. If you can't handle differing opinions then maybe a message board isn't for you. 

 

I’m fine with open and intelligent opinions. Who did he play TODAY? He played a BB team who routinely trounces rookie QB’s. I have never sworn he was the next coming, but he shows positives. He DID make some bad throws. Check out the rest of the rookie QB’s this year....and every year.

 

Try to keep an open mind. I have not decided one way or the other. 

[BlueandRed]

Allen needs to stop panicking, especially  on 3rd down.  it’s a problem and getting worse. 

Edited December 24, 2018 by BlueandRed

[DJB]

20 minutes ago, BlueandRed said:

Allen needs to stop panicking, especially  on 3rd down.  it’s a problem and getting worse. 

 

But he runs for his life almost every play. Its not good. 

 

But honestly no way can he be properly evaluated until the oline and a couple real NFL WR are added to this team.  

 

If we add key pieces on offence and Allen shows no progress next year then we are in trouble 

[Seventeen]

25 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

I’m fine with open and intelligent opinions. Who did he play TODAY? He played a BB team who routinely trounces rookie QB’s. I have never sworn he was the next coming, but he shows positives. He DID make some bad throws. Check out the rest of the rookie QB’s this year....and every year.

 

Try to keep an open mind. I have not decided one way or the other. 

 

Generally, I would encourage all to go back and look at the rookie seasons of some of the greats before judging Allen. 

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[RocCityRoller]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

A week ago, Allen was considered widely by many as the 2nd most impressive rookie QB.  Now after a tough week in NE in a game NE must win, suddenly he sucks and Darnold is god?  This is the fundamental issue with this board, too many people make NEW concrete declarations every week based on one game.  If Allen smokes Dolphins he will be god again...its incredibly annoying.  

 

This kids career is not going to be impacted by a rough game on the road in NE today.  In fact, he will learn a lot more from him mistakes than successes right now. This is the time to put them on tape to study.  

 

The weekly over reaction to good and bad things every week around here is out of control.

 

I counted 4 passes hitting WRs and TEs in the hands that should have been caught. 2 were potential TDs. Allen can't throw and catch the passes too.

 

On one pick the WR did nothing to fight for the ball.

 

I like JA. He needs OL and WR/TE help. Foster has been a nice story. Zay is improving slightly, he may be one of those year 3 WRs. (Most WRs take 2-3 years to develop with a good Qb and system), but neither are studs.

 

JA has it. Losman, Edwards, EJ, Peterman did not.

 

A full offseason with Zay and Foster as 2 of 3 WRs should help with reads, timing etc.

 

Need a running game and help at OL. A wildcard at WR like a crafty vet like Tate might help a lot.

Edited December 24, 2018 by RocCityRoller

[thebandit27]

Anyone that didn't see today's performance coming doesn't watch much football aside from Bills' games.

 

NE was always going to play Man-Spy against us and force out pass catchers to make plays down the field.

 

They failed in spectacular fashion, and so Allen did what Allen does: try way too hard to make things happen.

 

Because, like it or not, he's the team's ENTIRE offense. He once again accounted for 86% of the team's offensive yardage and was victimized by brutal drops.

 

Does that excuse his critical mistakes? Of course not. He had 2 bad INTs and a few bad misses. He bailed at least 3 clean pockets as well. Rookies gonna rookie yo.

 

But anyone that doesn't see a difference between week 1 Josh Allen and Week 16 Josh Allen is blind.

[26CornerBlitz]

2 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

Anyone that didn't see today's performance coming doesn't watch much football aside from Bills' games.

 

NE was always going to play Man-Spy against us and force out pass catchers to make plays down the field.

 

They failed in spectacular fashion, and so Allen did what Allen does: try way too hard to make things happen.

 

Because, like it or not, he's the team's ENTIRE offense. He once again accounted for 86% of the team's offensive yardage and was victimized by brutal drops.

 

Does that excuse his critical mistakes? Of course not. He had 2 bad INTs and a few bad misses. He bailed at least 3 clean pockets as well. Rookies gonna rookie yo.

 

But anyone that doesn't see a difference between week 1 Josh Allen and Week 16 Josh Allen is blind.

 

Today was more like pre-injury Allen. It was not a good day for him irrespective of being let down by his receiving corps.  Not a real surprise given the venue and the coach he went up against.  On to the challenge of next week. 

[Seventeen]

17 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

 

Hard to read anything that is titled 'Allen's year of excuses nearly over'. Allen has not made any excuses .... ever.

 

[34-78-83]

1 minute ago, Looper said:

 

Hard to read anything that is titled 'Allen's year of excuses nearly over'. Allen has not made any excuses .... ever.

 

I know these guys are nearly unbearable with the fake timelines and standards they come up with as if the teams treat them the same way.

[26CornerBlitz]

1 minute ago, Looper said:

Hard to read anything that is titled 'Allen's year of excuses nearly over'. Allen has not made any excuses .... ever.

 

You're in the Allen Bunker Brigade I see. The author didn't write or say that he has.  

[Seventeen]

1 minute ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

You're in the Allen Bunker Brigade I see. The author didn't write or say that he has.  

 

No, I'm in the Allen is a rookie and expect some mistakes brigade. The title in the R-1st article implies he's been making excuses.

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, Looper said:

 

No, I'm in the Allen is a rookie and expect some mistakes brigade. The title in the R-1st article implies he's been making excuses.

 

It's the wrong inference being drawn by you. 

[Seventeen]

Just now, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

It's the wrong inference being drawn by you. 

 

Whatever bud - I'm sure there are others who would read the title and feel the same way.