Mark Vader Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 2 hours ago, Foxx said: so, just because you have opposable thumbs... you somehow think this deserves it's own thread? I think this thread is completely necessary. Allen is not why we lost today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxx Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 3 minutes ago, Mark Vader said: I think this thread is completely necessary. Allen is not why we lost today. Jamarcus Russell has opposable thumbs too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Vader Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 2 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said: Yards are nice, but it's points that matter. Tell that to Charles Clay 1 minute ago, Foxx said: Jamarcus Russell has opposable thumbs too! So does Charles Clay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerlyofCtown Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 2 hours ago, Bangarang said: Bills fans: Yards don’t matter, wins do Also Bills fans: Yeah we lost but look at the amount of yards he had! Hes a Rookie QB. His developement is more important than wins at the moment. Jordan Phillips is to blame, he just couldnt let the play do the talking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxx Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 5 minutes ago, Mark Vader said: Tell that to Charles Clay So does Charles Clay oh good. you agree with me then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjd1001 Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 If you are going to use stats to make judgements on how good or bad a player is...at least don't use 1 game to justify your position. Some of the really bad QBs have had games where they have put up ton of numbers..and the greatest QBs ever have had awful games. With Allen look at the trend. it appears he is getting better as the season progresses. Is he a star now? No. Is he a lock to become one? No. The point is...the stats...over the SEASON so far and as a week to week trend show what he probably is...not a bust...but not a guaranteed long term answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick the Greek Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 2 hours ago, Doc said: He threw a perfect strike to Clay to win the game. Anyone who blames him for the loss is a moron. I donno if I’d call it a strike because the ball was wobbly.. but, it was definitely catchable. Oh well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Vader Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 15 minutes ago, Foxx said: oh good. you agree with me then. Yes, Josh Allen is not why we lost today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxx Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 6 minutes ago, Mark Vader said: Yes, Josh Allen is not why we lost today. whoa... we agree on two things today. who woulda thunk it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 36 minutes ago, VW82 said: And what about missing Zay in the endzone and the ugly INT, and dropped pick in the first half, and all the other missed throws throughout the game? There's blame to go around but Josh had way more bad throws than drops today by the receivers. If you listen to McDermott in his press conference, that miss was on Zay - he was supposed sit on that route. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 36 minutes ago, VW82 said: And what about missing Zay in the endzone and the ugly INT, and dropped pick in the first half, and all the other missed throws throughout the game? There's blame to go around but Josh had way more bad throws than drops today by the receivers. Jones was supposed to sit in the endzone not continue his route. The INT was bad, yes. But his receivers hurt him more than he hurt them. And yet despite that, the ST's salting-away 11 points, and the refs being crooked, and all the penalties, he threw a pass to Clay that any WR playing in the NFL should be able to catch, for what would have been the game-winning TD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VW82 Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Doc said: Jones was supposed to sit in the endzone not continue his route. The INT was bad, yes. But his receivers hurt him more than he hurt them. And yet despite that, the ST's salting-away 11 points, and the refs being crooked, and all the penalties, he threw a pass to Clay that any WR playing in the NFL should be able to catch, for what would have been the game-winning TD. And he made countless game changing runs throughout the game, and a bunch of big throws on that game winning drive. I credit Josh for even giving Clay the chance to win the game after that crazy Russell Wilson-esk double move to get away from the rush. He made plays. I just wish he could cut down on the percentage of really bad throws. He had 8-10 head scratchers today. Fix that and you have star QB and a chance at playoffs every year. But it needs to get fixed. Edited December 3, 2018 by VW82 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat68 Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 57 minutes ago, VW82 said: Why is that? Allen is above criticism? He made a lot of things happen out there today but ultimately we lost because we were only able to generate 17 points. That's not good enough and a big part of it was because Allen missed so many throws. It's ok to be excited and still see there are significant problems that need to be addressed. So many? One miscommunication with Jones in the endzone and one deep ball to foster? Including the pick he made 3 poor throws out of 30. You consistently see guys making plays in the elite offense. The last two plays sums up the season for Buffalo and the offense. Allen makes a perfect throw to Jones. Text book back shoulder fade. What looks like a big play on 3rd down with 50 sec left was actually dropped. The final play was chaotic, wreck less. Your saying no, no, no than crossed his body about 50 yards in the air to a wide open clay. Yes, yes, yes and bounces off Clay's chest game over. Neither play was easy but those are what is holding the team back. When guys start making those plays Buffalo will win alot of games. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teddy KGB Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 1 hour ago, VW82 said: Why is that? Allen is above criticism? He made a lot of things happen out there today but ultimately we lost because we were only able to generate 17 points. That's not good enough and a big part of it was because Allen missed so many throws. It's ok to be excited and still see there are significant problems that need to be addressed. Allen was the best player on the field today The rest of your post is a cool story. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nextmanup Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 3 hours ago, 78thealltimegreat said: Still waiting for Jamarcus Russell to appear freaking clowns Allen is pretty bad. He left 21 points on the field today by my count due to his accuracy issues, and almost all of his highlight plays for the season have come from his legs. He's a Tim Tebow with a bit more upside. 3 hours ago, billsfan11 said: How can you possibly blame Allen for that loss? If that’s what you’re trying to say Well, for starters, he cost us 3 TDs because he can't throw the ball accurately. So there's that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VW82 Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Mat68 said: So many? One miscommunication with Jones in the endzone and one deep ball to foster? Including the pick he made 3 poor throws out of 30. You consistently see guys making plays in the elite offense. The last two plays sums up the season for Buffalo and the offense. Allen makes a perfect throw to Jones. Text book back shoulder fade. What looks like a big play on 3rd down with 50 sec left was actually dropped. The final play was chaotic, wreck less. Your saying no, no, no than crossed his body about 50 yards in the air to a wide open clay. Yes, yes, yes and bounces off Clay's chest game over. Neither play was easy but those are what is holding the team back. When guys start making those plays Buffalo will win alot of games. Three bad throws? Your memory is very selective. I'm not going to go back and detail every single throw for you but did you remember to include the dropped pick in the first half? What about the throw when he escaped the pocket and tried to lob it 25 yards down the sideline to a wide open (Foster??) and missed badly (this play was called back on a penalty)? The ugly misses to Benjamin in the first half? The crossing routes where he kept missing Zay? It was more like ten bad throws. Josh makes lots of positive plays and sometimes puts it right in the numbers which is why this is so weird. The accuracy problem is real though. Edited December 3, 2018 by VW82 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WideNine Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 11 minutes ago, Nextmanup said: Allen is pretty bad. He left 21 points on the field today by my count due to his accuracy issues, and almost all of his highlight plays for the season have come from his legs. He's a Tim Tebow with a bit more upside. Back! Back under your bridge! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 24 minutes ago, VW82 said: And he made countless game changing runs throughout the game, and a bunch of big throws on that game winning drive. I credit Josh for even giving Clay the chance to win the game after that crazy Russell Wilson-esk double move to get away from the rush. He made plays. I just wish he could cut down on the percentage of really bad throws. He had 8-10 head scratchers today. Fix that and you have star QB and a chance at playoffs every year. But it needs to get fixed. Give him more than 7 games. Heck give him at least next season. Not to mention give him some offensive help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan130 Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 17 minutes ago, Nextmanup said: Allen is pretty bad. He left 21 points on the field today by my count due to his accuracy issues, and almost all of his highlight plays for the season have come from his legs. He's a Tim Tebow with a bit more upside. Well, for starters, he cost us 3 TDs because he can't throw the ball accurately. So there's that. Over 360 yards of offence by Allen alone with dropped touchdowns and you’re going to nitpick on a few throws? Jeez bud. Would hate to be your son bringing home an A minus report card.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putin Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 3 hours ago, Teddy KGB said: My grandma can make that catch After 9 shots of vodka 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Protocal69 Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 3 hours ago, buffalobillswin said: Are we just ignoring the INTs and the missed TD to Zay? Not saying he wasn't good, but let's not act like he was perfect Ints. You talking about the hall Mary at the end of the half and the other one where they fooled him on the coverage. Shame on the rookie SMH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zerovoltz Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 3 hours ago, billsfan_34 said: One of the picks was a hail mary - cant fault him there. He just needs to fix accuracy and he will be fine. I see this same though ALL over this board. As if fixing accuracy is just some forgone conclusion or that it is inevitable or easy. This is the entire reason why scouts questioned him as a round 1 prospect...it's what TEBOW never could do and it was the one thing holding him back as well. No one could "Fix" this in HS, or JUCO, or at Wyoming....Lamar Jackson is completing passes at a higher pct, with fewer turnovers, and his running ability is as good or better than Allens. Jackson wasn't considered a good prospect for Accuracy as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 Just now, Zerovotlz said: I see this same though ALL over this board. As if fixing accuracy is just some forgone conclusion or that it is inevitable or easy. This is the entire reason why scouts questioned him as a round 1 prospect...it's what TEBOW never could do and it was the one thing holding him back as well. No one could "Fix" this in HS, or JUCO, or at Wyoming....Lamar Jackson is completing passes at a higher pct, with fewer turnovers, and his running ability is as good or better than Allens. Jackson wasn't considered a good prospect for Accuracy as well. Golden boy down in kc had the same issues coming out oh wait he got to sit for a year and if he gets pressured it’s actually a thing down in kc 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zerovoltz Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 Just now, John from Riverside said: Golden boy down in kc had the same issues coming out oh wait he got to sit for a year and if he gets pressured it’s actually a thing down in kc No he didn't John....Mahomes was a 63% completion passer in his college career. The issues coming out were that he had poor footwork and would try too hard to improvise at times leading to poor choices. ....Not sure what you mean about Mahomes being pressured. He's performed well under pressure or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimeTime101 Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Zerovotlz said: I see this same though ALL over this board. As if fixing accuracy is just some forgone conclusion or that it is inevitable or easy. This is the entire reason why scouts questioned him as a round 1 prospect...it's what TEBOW never could do and it was the one thing holding him back as well. No one could "Fix" this in HS, or JUCO, or at Wyoming....Lamar Jackson is completing passes at a higher pct, with fewer turnovers, and his running ability is as good or better than Allens. Jackson wasn't considered a good prospect for Accuracy as well. The exact same reasons his accuracy numbers looked low in college is the same exact reasons here in NFL. Get a real TE, A real OL A Real #1 WR. then come back to me and talk about his accuracy #'s Edited December 3, 2018 by PrimeTime101 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 3 hours ago, buffalobillswin said: Stats are nice. Wins are better. Not really, not at this point. Progress is more important than squeaking out some fluke victory. Can you have both? Certainly, but winning is NOT the most important thing this year. This year is all about the progress of Allen and the young core of this team. Our off-season is crucial to our future success. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimeTime101 Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 (edited) 1 minute ago, Zerovotlz said: No he didn't John....Mahomes was a 63% completion passer in his college career. The issues coming out were that he had poor footwork and would try too hard to improvise at times leading to poor choices. ....Not sure what you mean about Mahomes being pressured. He's performed well under pressure or not. and you think 63% is good due to the players he had on that team? please. and by the way how did Mayfield do today with his grand accuracy? hmm? Edited December 3, 2018 by PrimeTime101 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 Just now, Zerovotlz said: No he didn't John....Mahomes was a 63% completion passer in his college career. The issues coming out were that he had poor footwork and would try too hard to improvise at times leading to poor choices. ....Not sure what you mean about Mahomes being pressured. He's performed well under pressure or not. It’s more often NOT prrssured and since your boy came from a air raid system built to make college qbs look good And was successful in his transition to the NFL you should not be so quick to think it cannot be done for Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zerovoltz Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 Just now, PrimeTime101 said: The exact same reasons his accuracy numbers looked low in college is the same exact reasons here in NFL. Get a real TE, A real OL. then come back to me and talk about his accuracy #'s How long can you keep using the supporting cast as a crutch? Derek Anderson has a 60% completion rate with these guys. Matt Barkley has a 60% completion rate with these guys. Nathan Peterman........has a 54% completion pct with these guys....wich is higher than Allens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zow2 Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 One crazy thing about Allen is ya never know from play to play what he will bring. It could be horrendous or something spectacular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 7 minutes ago, Zerovotlz said: I see this same though ALL over this board. As if fixing accuracy is just some forgone conclusion or that it is inevitable or easy. This is the entire reason why scouts questioned him as a round 1 prospect...it's what TEBOW never could do and it was the one thing holding him back as well. No one could "Fix" this in HS, or JUCO, or at Wyoming....Lamar Jackson is completing passes at a higher pct, with fewer turnovers, and his running ability is as good or better than Allens. Jackson wasn't considered a good prospect for Accuracy as well. Hmmm. Interesting last sentence. Care to ponder why Jackson is completing passes at a higher pct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zerovoltz Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 2 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: It’s more often NOT prrssured and since your boy came from a air raid system built to make college qbs look good And was successful in his transition to the NFL you should not be so quick to think it cannot be done for Alan ....I don't care what system any of them came from......Allen struggles with his accuracy....it was a problem in HS, a problem at JUCO...a problem at Wyoming....The scouts pointed it out in multiple reports....this is who Allen is....He is what his stats and scouting reports say he is....inaccurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimeTime101 Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 Just now, Zerovotlz said: How long can you keep using the supporting cast as a crutch? Derek Anderson has a 60% completion rate with these guys. Matt Barkley has a 60% completion rate with these guys. Nathan Peterman........has a 54% completion pct with these guys....wich is higher than Allens. Its not a crutch its a fact. Look at GB future hall of fame QB, His supporting cast fails then he fails, he threw for 62% today and if you saw replay catches of that game you would see 2 balls had no right being caught. they are having some of the same issues we are but there defense is bad on top of it and Josh Allen is a friggen ROOKIE! PLEASE! my gosh lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Boo Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 (edited) 4 hours ago, buffaloboyinATL said: Agreed, but he did enough to win. Clay should have caught that ball and Haushka did him no favors today. Allen should have put more on it and hit Clay in the endzone. It works both ways. In the end, it was a busted play with good effort from both guys, it just didn't work out. That's football. Edited December 3, 2018 by Chicken Boo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VW82 Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 Everyone is so defensive with Allen. Even the title of this thread is defensive. "Nearly 400 yards" despite the exact number being 352. Decent number for any QB. Why embellish it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zerovoltz Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 7 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said: Its not a crutch its a fact. Look at GB future hall of fame QB, His supporting cast fails then he fails, he threw for 62% today and if you saw replay catches of that game you would see 2 balls had no right being caught. they are having some of the same issues we are but there defense is bad on top of it and Josh Allen is a friggen ROOKIE! PLEASE! my gosh lol I know he is a rookie....I do think his pct will improve...I am not sure it ever improves enough to be a viable "franchise" QB. ....the idea that all you need to have him do is "just improve accuracy" is a funny statement to me...that isn't something that is easily done....and history shows it is highly unlikely it will ever improve very much. ...I'm just pointing out that many here seem to think that one day Allen is all of the sudden gong to go from a lifelong 50% passer to a 65% guy somehow...I just don't see how it is taken as something that WILL happen given enough time....etc.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimeTime101 Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 4 minutes ago, Zerovotlz said: I know he is a rookie....I do think his pct will improve...I am not sure it ever improves enough to be a viable "franchise" QB. ....the idea that all you need to have him do is "just improve accuracy" is a funny statement to me...that isn't something that is easily done....and history shows it is highly unlikely it will ever improve very much. ...I'm just pointing out that many here seem to think that one day Allen is all of the sudden gong to go from a lifelong 50% passer to a 65% guy somehow...I just don't see how it is taken as something that WILL happen given enough time....etc.... multiple factors in a QB's throwing percentage that has NOTHING to do with him? Examples.. Penalties that take away passes (yes every team has them but for us its an extreme event) Dropped balls (again every team has them but it happens to often here) the QB under abnormal pressure do to a garbage offensive line. Not able to get into a rhythm due to bad runs on first downs and massive penalties. I mean do you need me to continue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zerovoltz Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 24 minutes ago, Doc said: Hmmm. Interesting last sentence. Care to ponder why Jackson is completing passes at a higher pct? Yes...Jackson is completing passes at about the rate he did in College...it's not ideal, but it's in line with what he did in College....just like Allen. 1 minute ago, PrimeTime101 said: multiple factors in a QB's throwing percentage that has NOTHING to do with him? Examples.. Penalties that take away passes (yes every team has them but for us its an extreme event) Dropped balls (again every team has them but it happens to often here) the QB under abnormal pressure do to a garbage offensive line. Not able to get into a rhythm due to bad runs on first downs and massive penalties. I mean do you need me to continue? ...I have already pointed out that the other THREE QB who have played with the Bills this year, with the same guys and coaches etc...all have completed passes at a higher rate. At what point do you acknowledge that Allen isn't that accurate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 15 minutes ago, Zerovotlz said: Yes...Jackson is completing passes at about the rate he did in College...it's not ideal, but it's in line with what he did in College....just like Allen. So far, and it’s a small sample size, he’s been completing 3% more than he did in college. The answer you’re looking for is he has a better supporting cast on offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimeTime101 Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 1 minute ago, Zerovotlz said: Yes...Jackson is completing passes at about the rate he did in College...it's not ideal, but it's in line with what he did in College....just like Allen. ...I have already pointed out that the other THREE QB who have played with the Bills this year, with the same guys and coaches etc...all have completed passes at a higher rate. At what point do you acknowledge that Allen isn't that accurate? I acknowledge that he looks for the deeper passes more then the right pass and is not captain check down, doesn't throw more shorter passes (witch he needs to work on.) He is not a vet like the other guys that makes smarter plays, he is a rookie doing rookie things. Does he get to 65% next year? no one can say for sure. Cam Newton is hovering just under 60% career and I think Josh Allen will reach that when this offense gets fixed. I am going to name a perfect example for those of you that don't think a person/situation can fix QB stats. Steve Young first year was 53% Joe Montana first year was 56% Mitchell Trubisky 59% Troy Aikman who was on record saying you cant fix accuracy started his first year with bad accuracy, how did that work out Answer: Does Josh Allen have accuracy issues right now? yes? is that a lot do to the situation he is in and not sitting a raw talented player one year yes? Can he fix that? yes am I going to complain or even worry about it this year? hell no Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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