Is this a playoff team with Tyrod?

[Formerly Allan in MD]

Not again.

[Augie]

2 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

Really? 

 

Me calling Josh Allen, who currently ranks dead last in pretty much every passing category for starting QBs, a long shot of being successful isn't being objective?

 

Maybe you should look in the mirror. 

 

A) I get that you want Allen to succeed, but it probably won't happen. B) That's reality when you pick a QB in round 1. 

 

A) YOU don’t? Just to be right? I think you do too, but.....

 

B) Then why hold it up as a “we must clean house point”. It IS the reality. I wished we had gotten to #3 and lucked into Darnold. Now even that looks questionable. We don’t know at this point. I post here a lot, but very rarely get too riled up about anything. It’s a game and we’ll just have to wait and see. 

[jrober38]

1 minute ago, Augie said:

 

A) YOU don’t? Just to be right? I think you do too, but.....

 

B) Then why hold it up as a “we must clean house point”. It IS the reality. I wished we had gotten to #3 and lucked into Darnold. Now even that looks questionable. We don’t know at this point. I post here a lot, but very rarely get too riled up about anything. It’s a game and we’ll just have to wait and see. 

 

Wrong.

 

I want Allen to succeed. I want the Bills to be successful and contend for Super Bowls.

I just don't think the current franchise make up at GM, HC, or QB are going to make that happen. 

 

I go to 4, sometimes 5 Bills games a year. This year has been the least entertaining team I've ever seen. I'm locked into going to the Jets and Lions games in December and couldn't have less interest in going to either game. 

 

I go to the games because I want to be entertained, and I want to see the team win. 

 

Neither of those things is happening this year. 

Edited November 16, 2018 by jrober38

[billsfan1959]

2 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

Really? 

 

Me calling Josh Allen, who currently ranks dead last in pretty much every passing category for starting QBs, a long shot of being successful isn't being objective?

 

Maybe you should look in the mirror. 

 

I get that you want Allen to succeed, but it probably won't happen. That's reality when you pick a QB in round 1. 

Well, let me see. I have never stated that Allen was going to be good or bad, only that I was willing to wait through next season before drawing any definitive conclusions. You have been declaring him a bust in every other post you have written since he was drafted and use stats from 20 quarters of play and 139 attempts to justify a conclusion you reached before he ever stepped on the field.

 

It sure does sounds like one of us is not being objective and reasonable. I wonder which one?  Hmmm...

[LSHMEAB]

1 minute ago, jrober38 said:

 

Nope.

 

The Bills should have tanked in 2017 and walked away from the draft with a franchise QB, another 1st round pick, two 2nd round picks, and three 3rd round picks.

 

We could have had a franchise altering draft. Instead we traded away almost all of our assets for Josh Allen and Tremaine Edmunds and went all in on two players. 

Yeah, but then we'd be saddled with Mayfield instead of surefire HOF'er Josh Allen who brings his lunchpail to work.

 

We don't need any of that swagger around these parts.

[CuddyDark]

1 minute ago, Augie said:

 

A) YOU don’t? Just to be right? I think you do too, but.....

 

B) Then why hold it up as a “we must clean house point”. It IS the reality. I wished we had gotten to #3 and lucked into Darnold. Now even that looks questionable. We don’t know at this point. I post here a lot, but very rarely get too riled up about anything. It’s a game and we’ll just have to wait and see. 

There's a difference between wanting a player to succeed and having blinders for that player. Everyone of us want to win the SB but that doesn't mean we have to say JA is great and the Bills are better without TT when that is just not true.

[HOUSE]

17 hours ago, gobills1212 said:

If a tree falls in the woods and no oneis around to hear it, does it make a sound?

[Royale with Cheese]

1 minute ago, CuddyDark said:

The conclusion I draw from his 8 year career is TT would be the best QB on the Bills roster and we'd probably have 5 or 6 wins. No way in hell TT throws 3 Ints in Indy or the 7 Peterman threw in his games. It's more likely TT would have 300+ rushing yards and 2INT at this point.

 

We were down 24 to nothing to Indy by halftime.  Anderson threw one INT in the first half that lead to 3 points.  That game was well over before Anderson threw 2 more picks.

So you think with this offense, Taylor would win a shootout against Andrew Luck to win that game?

[BobChalmers]

17 hours ago, TigerJ said:

I think the odds are against it given the degraded state of the offensive line.  One of the negatives on Tyrod is the time it takes him to read a defence and decide what he's going to do with the ball.  It led to a quite a few sacks even with his scrambling ability.  He would have had less time this year before the pockiet collapsed.  We'll see how the line does moving forward if Teller and Sirles continue to start in place of Ducasse and Mills.  

 

YES - this "TT can mask a bad OL" trope is flat-out wrong.  Sure he can run fast - so can Allen.

 

TT had terrible pocket awareness, poor vision in the pocket, and absolutely glacial decision making.  He made the OL look WORSE in pass coverage, not better.

[jrober38]

1 minute ago, LSHMEAB said:

Yeah, but then we'd be saddled with Mayfield instead of surefire HOF'er Josh Allen who brings his lunchpail to work.

 

We don't need any of that swagger around these parts.

 

McDermott said it himself - he values culture more than strategy. 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

22 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

Nobody expected it would be good enough at this point. They are gambling that they can mold him into something that WILL BE good enough. You seem to very very doubtful (at best) they can do it. I have my own reservations but I’ll remain hopeful, because that’s all I can do. But nobody knows for sure yet. So we wait and pray..... 

 

 

. 

 

..agree bud, but they whiffed badly on the offensive side of the ball.....Castillo is not a talent developer....and despite Culley's accolades, not sure how his WR coaching experience translates into QB development.....beside if he has 25+ years' experience along with Robiskie's 35 years WR Coach experience, how the hell do we have guys that cannot run routes?...think that is "elementary my dear Watson"....10 picks and FA $$$ will be this gang's defining year in 2019, perhaps one of the most pivotal since Polian era....same place as in 2-7 next year at this time may be "color me pink" as in slips.....just a thought......

[Soda Popinski]

This isn't a .500 team with Taylor.  

[Augie]

4 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

Wrong.

 

I want Allen to succeed. I want the Bills to be successful and contend for Super Bowls.

I just don't think the current franchise make up at GM, HC, or QB are going to make that happen. 

 

I go to 4, sometimes 5 Bills games a year. This year has been the least entertaining team I've ever seen. I'm locked into going to the Jets and Lions games in December and couldn't have less interest in going to either game. 

 

I go to the games because I want to be entertained, and I want to see the team win. 

 

Neither of those things is happening this year. 

 

OK, you answered point A. And it was the right answer! 

[Royale with Cheese]

7 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

Because we had a bottom 5 starting QB.

 

Why is it worse this year?

 

 

Maybe it's because we have $12 million invested in the offensive line, no running game a revolving door at WR with a rookie QB who wasn't supposed to start?

Allen's issues right now are the same as Taylor's i.e leaving the pocket early, holding onto the ball, inaccurate etc....

That's been my point this entire time.  I know our offense is bad and what Taylor has shown, especially the last few years is he wouldn't have done much better with this same exact squad.

[BobChalmers]

7 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

 

Tyrod Taylor sucks.

 

Josh Allen is worse.

 

I get that a lot of people don't want to accept that, but that's not my problem. 

 

No, you're problem is a you're a troll.

 

How anyone complains at this stage about a rookie 7th overall pick who's 2-3 on a team that's 1-4 without him really can only have one explanation. 

 

HINT: It doesn't involve a surplus of objectivity or intellect.

[CuddyDark]

3 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

We were down 24 to nothing to Indy by halftime.  Anderson threw one INT in the first half that lead to 3 points.  That game was well over before Anderson threw 2 more picks.

So you think with this offense, Taylor would win a shootout against Andrew Luck to win that game?

Shootout? I remember that game differently. Luck barely threw the ball at all. Ints, fumbles, punts. That's what I remember.

[jrober38]

2 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Maybe it's because we have $12 million invested in the offensive line, no running game a revolving door at WR with a rookie QB who wasn't supposed to start?

Allen's issues right now are the same as Taylor's i.e leaving the pocket early, holding onto the ball, inaccurate etc....

That's been my point this entire time.  I know our offense is bad and what Taylor has shown, especially the last few years is he wouldn't have done much better with this same exact squad.

 

Pretty sure the GM and HC hand picked the WRs and had plenty of time to make changes to the OL.

 

Not trading away all their draft picks might have helped them upgrade their blocking. No one forced them to go all in on Allen or Edmunds. 

[Augie]

9 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

..agree bud, but they whiffed badly on the offensive side of the ball.....Castillo is not a talent developer....and despite Culley's accolades, not sure how his WR coaching experience translates into QB development.....beside if he has 25+ years' experience along with Robiskie's 35 years WR Coach experience, how the hell do we have guys that cannot run routes?...think that is "elementary my dear Watson"....10 picks and FA $$$ will be this gang's defining year in 2019, perhaps one of the most pivotal since Polian era....same place as in 2-7 next year at this time may be "color me pink" as in slips.....just a thought......

 

I’m NOT arguing they got the offense right. That would be foolish. I’m just saying I don’t pull the plug after this year, and if they continue to get things going generally in the right direction (cap, drafts, etc.) I’d give them another shot at QB after next year if it’s the thing to do. Bottom line is, it doesn’t matter what WE think, because WE don’t get a say. 

 

And I don’t get too worked up about stuff I can’t control. That’s an important life lesson, to me anyway. 

 

 

. 

Edited November 16, 2018 by Augie

[Royale with Cheese]

Just now, CuddyDark said:

Shootout? I remember that game differently. Luck barely threw the ball at all. Ints, fumbles, punts. That's what I remember.

 

He threw 3 TD's in the first half.  He didn't need to throw the ball a lot because they were up by 3+ scores early on.  We would have to throw to keep up which hasn't been our strength in years.

[Augie]

 

 

I get that this team totally lacks offense, and that’s largely what fun to watch. THAT is why the NFL is doing everything possible to encourage more offense and points. We don’t have that now, so it’s less fun than it should be. I’m just having more patience than many, it seems. 

[hondo in seattle]

3 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

McDermott said it himself - he values culture more than strategy. 

 

Show us that quote because I don't recall it.

McD has talked about the importance of culture.  And he's right, it's important.  

 

Bill Walsh valued culture, too.  Walsh - who went 2-14 in his first year with the 49ers - wrote that "Culture precedes positive results."  

[Royale with Cheese]

2 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

Pretty sure the GM and HC hand picked the WRs and had plenty of time to make changes to the OL.

 

Not trading away all their draft picks might have helped them upgrade their blocking. No one forced them to go all in on Allen or Edmunds. 

 

Not with the room we had in the salary cap this past year.

But again, my point, with this same exact squad, the outcomes wouldn't have been much different.  

[billsfan1959]

1 minute ago, Augie said:

 

 

I get that this team totally lacks offense, and that’s largely what fun to watch. THAT is why the NFL is doing everything possible to encourage more offense and points. We don’t have that now, so it’s less fun than it should be. I’m just having more patience than many, it seems. 

I think the majority of us are with you on a patient, wait and see approach.

[billieve420]

17 hours ago, Rc2catch said:

In my opinion no way it’s a playoff team. Tyrod has regressed horribly the more he plays. He only gets worse. He has been trending down for what 3 years? Every season here his game went farther and farther downhill. One could argue he’s worse than our current 3 quarterbacks. Sure he can scramble a couple first downs for you every game. And he will take care of the ball. The majority of our losses were blowouts, are we in those games if the offense doesn’t throw picks? Is Tyrod bringing us back down 10? Down 20? We seen enough to know the answer is no. He is gonna 3 and out non stop. He is going to ignore portions of the field. More than likely make one read and run. 

First year here I thought Taylor was gonna be a star, man that guy threw the most gorgeous 50 yard bombs I may have ever seen. Just dropped them in there like it was nothing. 

Yet after that first season he couldn’t do it anymore. He couldn’t do anything. I feel like he was coached terribly into this scared little shell of himself. He took ball security more seriously than any other aspect of the game. And that ruined his whole game and probably his career 

 

Was it because guys were injured constantly and there was no continuity at WR? Tought to tell plus the FO went out and got a bunch of bigger possession WRs who don't fit Tyrod's style. I think Tyrod would benefit by having quick shifty WRs who have speed and can get open in space. Even with that I think at his best Tyrod is a .500 QB and the ideal backup QB.

Edited November 16, 2018 by billieve420

[GoBills808]

19 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

Nope.

 

The Bills should have tanked in 2017 and walked away from the draft with a franchise QB, another 1st round pick, two 2nd round picks, and three 3rd round picks.

 

We could have had a franchise altering draft. Instead we traded away almost all of our assets for Josh Allen and Tremaine Edmunds and went all in on two players. 

 

Exactly.

 

Tyrod Taylor sucks.

 

Josh Allen is worse.

 

I get that a lot of people don't want to accept that, but that's not my problem. 

If that's your conclusion you're in for a tough 10+ years ahead.

[OldTimer1960]

Holy cow, how can some here already have written Allen off?  I can’t think how you could have put a rookie into a worse situation.  

Mediocre OL to worse with loss of Wood and Incognito- check.  

WR group with maybe 1 NFL level starter - and that was “last year’s sure bust” Zay Jones - check. 

Keep Allen taking 3rd team reps through most of training camp and then throw him into starting lineup with this mess - check.

 

How many games has he started, no supporting group- 6?  Yep, let’s conclude that he is terrible 

[dgrochester55]

51 minutes ago, CuddyDark said:

We had the Packers on the ropes too. And in other games I don't think we have as many turnovers so in a close game who knows?

You guys are the same people who told us the offense would be better if TT left.

 

You cant have a team on the ropes when you put no points on the board.   There are some other games when Its tough to tell though.    I look more at the games where Anderson and Peterman started, those games weren't close, but the team came in with a very modified game plan on offense.   It may have been a completely different game with an established quarterback, even a mediocre one.   

 

For the record, I do think that we should have ideally kept Taylor and still drafted Allen so I don't think our viewpoints are as different as you think.  

[billsfan1959]

2 minutes ago, OldTimer1960 said:

Holy cow, how can some here already have written Allen off?  I can’t think how you could have put a rookie into a worse situation.  

Mediocre OL to worse with loss of Wood and Incognito- check.  

WR group with maybe 1 NFL level starter - and that was “last year’s sure bust” Zay Jones - check. 

Keep Allen taking 3rd team reps through most of training camp and then throw him into starting lineup with this mess - check.

 

How many games has he started, no supporting group- 6?  Yep, let’s conclude that he is terrible 

You apparently haven't heard: He didn't put up great stats in college. 

[reddogblitz]

16 hours ago, gobills1212 said:

If a tree falls in the woods and no oneis around to hear it, does it make a sound?

 

If a man says something in the middle of a forest where no woman can hear it, is it still wrong?

[billsfan1959]

Just now, reddogblitz said:

 

If a man says something in the middle of a forest where no woman can hear it, is it still wrong?

Yes

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

8 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

I’m NOT arguing they got the offense right. That would be foolish. I’m just saying I don’t pull the plug after this year, and if they continue to get things going generally in the right direction (cap, drafts, etc.) I’d give them another shot at QB after next year if it’s the thing to do. Bottom line is, it doesn’t matter what WE think, because WE don’t get a say. 

 

And I don’t get too worked up about stuff I can’t control. That’s an important life lesson, to me anyway. 

 

 

. 

 

 

...way, WAAAY to early to talk about pulling the plug despite the TBD'ers "demands"........listen to them and you'll be institutionalized....last year making the playoffs ala DDI, a/k/a "Dalton Divine Intervention" was an unpredictable anomaly.....yet the TBD prognosticators  forecasted 4-12, 5-11, 6-10 etc in an expected "rebuild year"......and now on that very same PREDICTED path, "we suck"..Greenspan said "irrational exuberance"...Bi-Polar 101 ....the "course" is bound to be "rocky and trying" and maybe not as fast as other teams, but what are our choices now?...yup fire everybody and start over, looking for success in 2027.......

[nedboy7]

15 minutes ago, OldTimer1960 said:

Holy cow, how can some here already have written Allen off?  I can’t think how you could have put a rookie into a worse situation.  

Mediocre OL to worse with loss of Wood and Incognito- check.  

WR group with maybe 1 NFL level starter - and that was “last year’s sure bust” Zay Jones - check. 

Keep Allen taking 3rd team reps through most of training camp and then throw him into starting lineup with this mess - check.

 

How many games has he started, no supporting group- 6?  Yep, let’s conclude that he is terrible 

 

You have a point. But I think it proves the coaching has been horrible. All those things were decided by the coaches. So the coaches have put him in a place where he most likely will become terrible. 

[reddogblitz]

23 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

Yes

 

thank you Mam

[Thurman Kelly]

Despite the tire fire that this season has become, I'm still glad we let Tyrod go.  If Josh Allen is ever going to be successful, it's as a pocket passer who can get through his route tree.  Tyrod had nothing to teach Allen about that (Tyrod couldn't even see receivers over the middle, never mind decide whether to throw to them!).  Not sure yet whether Anderson or Barkley can show Allen (on or off the field) how it's done, but at least, at this point, there's a hope of them doing so.

[Augie]

21 minutes ago, nedboy7 said:

 

You have a point. But I think it proves the coaching has been horrible. All those things were decided by the coaches. So the coaches have put him in a place where he most likely will become terrible. 

 

I think that’s more big picture planning and prioritizing resources than “coaching”. Even the best coaches need talent to work with. We ain’t got much of that on offense. We couldn’t get it all that quickly and hopefully the offensive lack of offensive talent gets corrected in FA and the next draft. 

 

Having said that, I’m NOT saying the coaches are good. Only that you can’t tell while they work with JV level talent. I’ve got my reservations, but I’ll wait and see. 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

...despite being a likeable guy, one of supreme work ethic effort and a consummate teammate, I think this kid's ship has sailed, unfortunately, as far as living his lifelong dream as a starting NFL QB....or even a proven back up......he is not the first to fail in making it......and NOT the last.........

[BigDingus]

Were the Browns a playoff team with Tyrod? 

No, we wouldn't be a playoff team with Tyrod. Our offense would still look awful, just without the turnovers. 

Imagine it this way - 3 out of every 4 INT's this year would just be incompletions. And 9 out of 10 attempted deep passes would be checkdowns to the RB. We'd still be the 32nd ranked passing offense, we'd have 10+ game streaks of not scoring a TD in the first half, we'd lead the league in 3 & outs again, and we'd still have a crappy O-line & WR's.

Opposing defenses would still put up monster sack numbers, possibly even more so, only this time we'd watch Tyrod scramble backwards & lose extra yards in the process (except for the 1 time each game he keeps the play alive and the announcers talk about his great athleticism).

[Boca BIlls]

Tuhrod is GARBAGE no matter what team he is on.

[Teddy KGB]

26 minutes ago, Boca BIlls said:

Tuhrod is GARBAGE no matter what team he is on.

 

The numbers don’t lie. 

[The Red King]

46 minutes ago, BigDingus said:

Were the Browns a playoff team with Tyrod? 

No, we wouldn't be a playoff team with Tyrod. Our offense would still look awful, just without the turnovers. 

Imagine it this way - 3 out of every 4 INT's this year would just be incompletions. And 9 out of 10 attempted deep passes would be checkdowns to the RB. We'd still be the 32nd ranked passing offense, we'd have 10+ game streaks of not scoring a TD in the first half, we'd lead the league in 3 & outs again, and we'd still have a crappy O-line & WR's.

Opposing defenses would still put up monster sack numbers, possibly even more so, only this time we'd watch Tyrod scramble backwards & lose extra yards in the process (except for the 1 time each game he keeps the play alive and the announcers talk about his great athleticism).

 

Shh.  I already tried questioning them about that.  They've decided Tyrod never played this year, and instead insist Tyrod this year would perform just like he did in 2017.  I mean, who needs hard data from this year when you have wild speculation from last? ?