WHY is Allen really starting?

[Big Turk]

7 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

If Allen isn't ready, starting him does nothing too.

He isnt going to be anymore ready by sitting on the bench. Just like anything in life you learn a lot more by doing than you do by watching no matter how closely you pay attention.

[Bing Bong]

I don't understand the 180 we did from the beginning of the year clamoring for Allen to be put in bubble wrap so he doesn't get any of this offensive wreck goo on him. Developing bad habits and all.

 

I've always been of the position start the best Quarterback. THAT'S the real NFL experience for JA, nothing is handed to you and you gotta work for it. So if he's showing better than Barkley in practice then I"m all for him going in but if he's not and still getting handed the starting Quarterback keys he's not quite competing every day not just Sundays.. I want him to be Rodgers arrogant where he thinks he deserves the keys to the city (even behind a legend) and that gets lost when you realize you already have em cause you got picked high cause you had a big arm in college, and the backup next to you may be outperforming you with throws and reads you're failing at. NFL experience: step 1: EARN your job and be pissed off anybody ever thought you shouldn't have it step 2: show up every Sunday 

Edited November 15, 2018 by PetermanThrew5Picks

[GunnerBill]

9 minutes ago, NewDayBills said:

I think he will be ok and as far as drafting another goes, that needs to be done now. I'd take one as high as RD2. You don't mess around with QB and if you're McDermott, you're a fool if you go into next year with just Allen and Barkley. So long as Allen throws a 2:1 TD:INT ratio I'd leave him alone. Doesn't need to be jaw dropping numbers. 3,200 yards 21 TDs and 10 picks or something in that vicinity and I'd leave him alone. That to me is plausible improvement.

 

I'm not for drafting another this year. I think it's a pretty poor QB class and I think you have to show you believe in Josh Allen. The 2020 class looks to have potential though, and I'd be inclined to take one there if Allen only puts up the numbers you suggest next season.

[Mr. WEO]

11 hours ago, PUNT750 said:

 . It really isn't an NFL learning experience for him - 
 

 

 

WTF??? That's exactly what it is.  That's ALL it is, in fact.

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

Allen is going to be here for 3 seasons good or bad. I believe Allen gives us the best chance to win with the current QB's on this roster. Allen is still developing and has to work with below average O-Line, TE and WR. People that I'm praying get fired or released for the good of this team are. 

 

1. KB

2. Croom

3. Ducasse 

4. Castillo 

5. Mills

6. Clay

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

Allen is going to be here for 3 seasons good or bad. I believe Allen gives us the best chance to win with the current QB's on this roster. Allen is still developing and has to work with below average O-Line, TE and WR. People that I'm praying get fired or released for the good of this team are. 

 

1. KB

2. Croom

3. Ducasse 

4. Castillo 

5. Mills

6. Clay

 

 

I am with you on 5 of those 6. I want to see an upgrade for Mills in here before I am happy to release him.

[Victory Formation]

6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I'm not for drafting another this year. I think it's a pretty poor QB class and I think you have to show you believe in Josh Allen. The 2020 class looks to have potential though, and I'd be inclined to take one there if Allen only puts up the numbers you suggest next season.

Fair enough. I have done zero research on this QB crop so I cannot comment, I'm just open to another, doesn't have to be a high pick.

 

The numbers I suggested are the floor of what I find acceptable.

[H2o]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Is anyone suggesting that? I mean I agree it is mental if they are.... but I'm not seeing that. If anything I am seeing people say "put him on the shelf the whole year so he is 100% healthy for 2019. I think that is wrong too but that is the only "don't start" Allen sentiment I am saying.

Oh there have been many who have suggested he's a bust already, wasted pick, EJ II, and everything else. That's what I'm talking about as well as the fact he needs to start for experience purposes my friend. 

[1st Ammendment NoMas]

35 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

 

I am with you on 5 of those 6. I want to see an upgrade for Mills in here before I am happy to release him.

I'm ok with Croom for now, because we'd be short on depth if he and Clay were to depart.  He's show flashes on the field and must have shown a few in the bedroom to stick around. Pegs must like him, he's actually a Peterman, just this one actually uses his Peter for a roster spot.

[Soda Popinski]

11 hours ago, greeneblitz said:

By the end of next season we will have a answer on Allen one way or another.

I don't agree with that.  I think we will know in 2020.   Allen wasn't a 1 year project.   I think starting him every game he is healthy from now until the end of 2019 is good because he needs to accelerate his learning curve.   But I never thought he was less than a 2 year project.  I wouldn't cut ties with him even if he struggles in 2019.    There are some things he needs to show, but if you look back at this year, how much has he really been able to learn other than how to run for his life from a pass rush.   

 

He can't develop until he's got a clean pocket, we have only had that once this year and he was on the bench. 

[Da webster guy]

2 hours ago, H2o said:

Look at Goff in his 1st year, Trubisky in his, Peyton Manning in his first season. You play Allen, let him get experience, and improve the team around him in the offseason. The discussion of sh*t canning him after 6 starts as a ROOKIE is absolutely retarded. 

 

Yup.   And the best thing he's shown is that the game isn't too big for him.  He doesn't play scared and aside from a handful of plays, he's not forcing things out there.

He's shown a knack for escaping pressure, and he's improving at keeping his eyes downfield.  The rest of the way it's going to be reading coverages, pre snap adjustments, and footwork/throwing mechanics.  

 

Obviously tons to learn before he can be great, but the kid already has a huge road win in Minny and a come-from-behind 4th quarter drive to win a game.    And most of all (lest we forget) the kid is so FUN to watch.   I say enjoy it, we don't have the pressure of having to win to make the playoffs, and we have some easier opponents going down the stretch here, with three at home in December.  Can't wait to smoke the Jags.

[DasNootz]

Because "the process" says to start Allen and have him develop.  Not everything goes as planned, but with purpose and a plan every step gets you closer to your goal.  Don't let the results (stat-line) of last Sunday cloud the process.  Matt could have easily thrown 2 more picks, and we'd all be over-reacting, claiming he sucks. He appears to lack the arm strength to be a long-term starter.  Allen is our future - He has the physical tools, we just have to find out if we are capable of developing him into a franchise QB.  You can't do that without putting him on the field.

[PromoTheRobot]

1 hour ago, matter2003 said:

He isnt going to be anymore ready by sitting on the bench. Just like anything in life you learn a lot more by doing than you do by watching no matter how closely you pay attention.

 

That's a cliche. You have to learn what to do before you get reps and do it. I thought Allen was regressing his last few games. He started running soon after he snapped the ball. You aren't learning the QB job doing that.

[msw2112]

I worked on a project a few years ago with a sociologist who specialized in learning.  His theory was that everyone learns differently.  Some people learn by reading about how something is done.  Others learn by watching someone else do it.  Still others learn by actually doing it.  Successful leaders and managers have the ability to understand the people they have working for them and how they learn best, and then apply the best approach.  I have no idea how Josh Allen learns best, but I hope that McDermott is that kind of successful leader who can identify what works best for Allen and applies it.

[Miracle Bills]

13 hours ago, matter2003 said:

Because starting Anderson or Barkley does nothing for our future

Barkley starting does plenty. It lets you know if you need to lock him up with a deal or let him go at the end of the year.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

13 hours ago, Teddy KGB said:

Ahhh yes.     He’s not our guy if he doesn’t look like Tom Brady in his 6th start ??‍♂️??‍♂️

Nobody said that. 

 

That's you embellishing to make some point about Bills fans being impatient. 

 

(Even though any QB that has left Buffalo over the years, never resurfaced in the league as a great player.......)

[blacklabel]

The kid has to start regardless of the situation. There's no replacement for live game reps. He just recently said that he felt like the game was slowing down for him when they were playing Houston, just before his injury. And that makes sense because in that game he made a couple very nice, quick, decisive throws. The play he got injured on he put a 20-yard in-route on a rope to KB. He also had a great throw to Clay over the middle earlier in the game. And if OP has questions on a quick release for Allen, watch that Sports Science clip with him on YouTube. Kid has a lightning-fast release. But I assume you're talking about the hesitance he's shown to pull the trigger from time to time. That's typical rookie stuff and the more experience he gets, the better he should become.

 

At his ceiling, I think Allen could be a lot like Brett Favre. A guy who isn't afraid of any throw that will usually most of the time make the right decision and the right throw but will have some gambles he takes that backfire. And I'd be just fine with that after the 20+ years of "safe" quarterbacking we've seen here. I'm all in on the kid. He has the confidence, the work ethic, the intelligence, the athleticism and the natural arm talent. I realize that sounds a lot like EJ Manuel but where these two differ is the arm. EJ had this weird way of trying to aim the ball and half the time his throwing motion looked as if he was throwing a dart. Allen has a very natural quick release and the main things he'll need to work on are his processing, seeing the field and knowing when to and when not to run. 

 

I do feel better that he's now sharing the QB room with a 14-year vet who's seen a lot and a 6-year vet who has bounced around a handful of teams and while that's not necessarily good for Barkley himself, it can be good in the sense that Barkley has experience in numerous systems and can hopefully share that knowledge. I'm also glad to see that they made a clean break with Peterman. I thought they'd stick him on the practice squad but they didn't and that's probably for the best.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

10 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

If Allen isn't ready, starting him does nothing too.

When will you know definitively that he's ready?

 

What indicator light illuminates that tells you its time?

[quinnearlysghost88]

I almost got mad at this thread and the person judging a rookie after 6 games, but then I saw who wrote it. Sit out a few plays. Maybe stop starting bad threads. 

[iinii]

2 hours ago, matter2003 said:

He isnt going to be anymore ready by sitting on the bench. Just like anything in life you learn a lot more by doing than you do by watching no matter how closely you pay attention.

Much like simulators for fighter pilots? Just throw them in a plane and see what happens?

[Alphadawg7]

13 hours ago, PUNT750 said:

I feel the Bills are doing the right thing in starting Allen for the balance of the season. It really isn't an NFL learning experience for him - rather a gut check for the Bills HC and GM.

IF he doesn't show an awareness for the game, a quick release or can't MANAGE the game he's not our man. We've been through this before with Johnson, Losman and EJ. Great talent but not winners in the NFL.

I hope he's "the man" and he's getting his chance!

 

Whats the point of this thread?  To state the obvious?

[iinii]

43 minutes ago, blacklabel said:

The kid has to start regardless of the situation. There's no replacement for live game reps. He just recently said that he felt like the game was slowing down for him when they were playing Houston, just before his injury. 

You left out the part where Allen said that holding the clipboard and charting plays has been helpful.

[PittsforDave]

The leap in improvement will occur in year 2. Way too early to judge...

[SoTier]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I agree that so long as he is on an obvious upward curve after year 2 he gets to start year 3. But that benefit of the doubt doesn't last much beyond that. By mid-year 3 he needs to be playing at a high level or else I am drafting another.

 

Exactly this.  If a team keeps waiting and hoping that a high first round QB prospect who isn't playing consistently at a high level by his third season will eventually "get it" and play better, they'll end up with a Sanchez,Tannehill, Bortles or Winston.  The biggest cost of this isn't just the cap implications of giving these mediocre QBs big extensions, but that the team may very well pass on a much better QB.

 

1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

That's a cliche. You have to learn what to do before you get reps and do it. I thought Allen was regressing his last few games. He started running soon after he snapped the ball. You aren't learning the QB job doing that.

 

I agree.  Just getting thrown out there and left to "figure it out" on his own is a prescription for insuring a young QB prospect fails, especially a "project", and I'm afraid that's close to the situation with Allen.  If he wasn't regressing in his last few games, he certainly wasn't showing much, and he was playing poorly.

 

David Culley has never been a NFL QB and he hasn't been a QB coach even on the collegiate level in the last 30 years until he was hired by McDermott.  How can anyone believe Culley can help a QB who needs serious help with his fundamentals, especially his mechanics?   Allen needs a real mentor in a QB coach, not a fellow player to give him some pointers. 

[Big Turk]

1 hour ago, iinii said:

Much like simulators for fighter pilots? Just throw them in a plane and see what happens?

A simulator IS the same thing as flying a plane just without the possibility of death when you crash. 

 

Is Allen on the sidelines dropping back every play and wearing some virtual reality gear to make the throws against the AI?

 

Kind of a dumb example becauee you just proved my point.

 

For an equivalent point to him being on the bench, it would be like having no simulation training and just sitting and watching a pilot for a few months and then taking over the controls and flying the plane without the pilot there with you.

1 hour ago, Miracle Bills said:

Barkley starting does plenty. It lets you know if you need to lock him up with a deal or let him go at the end of the year.

 

Maybe we should figure out if we have a starting QB instead of trying to figure out if we have a back up...just a thought...just a thought.

Edited November 15, 2018 by matter2003

[ddaryl]

 I want to see him scan the field. Make the right reads and fire the ball into tight windows accurately. Something he has show very little ability to do with any consistency.

 

 

[PromoTheRobot]

4 hours ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

When will you know definitively that he's ready?

 

What indicator light illuminates that tells you its time?

 

That's the coaches call, not ours. All I'm saying is McDermott's statement about Allen starting "when healthy" does not necessarily mean "Allen starts vs Jax."

Edited November 15, 2018 by PromoTheRobot

[Augie]

4 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Whats the point of this thread?  To state the obvious?

 

You ask difficult questions! 

 

I’m afraid I don’t have an answer. 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

22 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

That's the coaches call, not ours. All I'm saying is McDermott's statement about Allen starting "when healthy" does not necessarily mean "Allen starts vs Jax."

Ok, well McDermott said he’s our starter, which means in his mind Allen is ready right now. 

 

 

[iinii]

3 hours ago, matter2003 said:

A simulator IS the same thing as flying a plane just without the possibility of death when you crash. 

 

Is Allen on the sidelines dropping back every play and wearing some virtual reality gear to make the throws against the AI?

 

Kind of a dumb example becauee you just proved my point.

 

For an equivalent point to him being on the bench, it would be like having no simulation training and just sitting and watching a pilot for a few months and then taking over the controls and flying the plane without the pilot there with you.

 

Maybe we should figure out if we have a starting QB instead of trying to figure out if we have a back up...just a thought...just a thought.

Or the possibility of damaging your elbow?

[Straight Hucklebuck]

3 minutes ago, iinii said:

Or the possibility of damaging your elbow?

That’s what team doctors are supposed to do. Assess the realistic chance he reinjures the elbow. If they clear him, he’s in. 

[dubs]

19 hours ago, PUNT750 said:

I feel the Bills are doing the right thing in starting Allen for the balance of the season. It really isn't an NFL learning experience for him - rather a gut check for the Bills HC and GM.

IF he doesn't show an awareness for the game, a quick release or can't MANAGE the game he's not our man. We've been through this before with Johnson, Losman and EJ. Great talent but not winners in the NFL.

I hope he's "the man" and he's getting his chance!

 

NOT trying to be a jerk but I read this 4 times and I don’t really get what you are saying. The first paragraph really is throwing me off. 

[PromoTheRobot]

1 hour ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Ok, well McDermott said he’s our starter, which means in his mind Allen is ready right now. 

 

 

 

That's not what he said.  He said "when healthy Allen is the starter." That doesn't mean "He's healthy. He's starting the next game."

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

7 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

That's a cliche. You have to learn what to do before you get reps and do it. I thought Allen was regressing his last few games. He started running soon after he snapped the ball. You aren't learning the QB job doing that.

 

...kid has a damn good work ethic and certainly seems to be a good teammate.....the whole QB situation was grossly mishandled, thrusting him into the starting role despite needing more work......and I'd bet he pressed to carry the team on his shoulders when he was not ready.....hence the purported regression along with the less than stellar supporting cast....

[PromoTheRobot]

2 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...kid has a damn good work ethic and certainly seems to be a good teammate.....the whole QB situation was grossly mishandled, thrusting him into the starting role despite needing more work......and I'd bet he pressed to carry the team on his shoulders when he was not ready.....hence the purported regression along with the less than stellar supporting cast....

 

I don't disagree. That's why I don't support just putting him back out there. For whatever reason, the same motley offense played better against the Jets under Barkley. Part of Allen's education should be watching a veteran make it work with the same guys who couldn't get it done under him earlier. He would benefit from it greatly. Even for a week or two.

[3rdand12]

10 hours ago, msw2112 said:

I worked on a project a few years ago with a sociologist who specialized in learning.  His theory was that everyone learns differently.  Some people learn by reading about how something is done.  Others learn by watching someone else do it.  Still others learn by actually doing it.  Successful leaders and managers have the ability to understand the people they have working for them and how they learn best, and then apply the best approach.  I have no idea how Josh Allen learns best, but I hope that McDermott is that kind of successful leader who can identify what works best for Allen and applies it.

where do you folks come from all of a sudden ?

 But you are correct. There are more than two types of learning of course. But kinetic is certainly one of them !

9 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

I don't disagree. That's why I don't support just putting him back out there. For whatever reason, the same motley offense played better against the Jets under Barkley. Part of Allen's education should be watching a veteran make it work with the same guys who couldn't get it done under him earlier. He would benefit from it greatly. Even for a week or two.

No reason not to put Barkley out there.

he might get concussed like Anderson was his first game in ??
 or accidently wet himself ala Nate.
He just won us a game huge , showed poise, plus awareness +he ran the Offense as intended by Daboll. That was how it IS done.
 with the O line and WRs still a ? mark ?

i would prefer to sacrifice Barkley over Allen.

but who knows, maybe just maybe .. last week against a team that had given up (Jets) is a trend.
process trumps all though

[PittsforDave]

We are creating a controversy here.

 

It’s not good to put Josh in a position like this, up against the wall. 

 

Its succeed or get benched for Barkley. ***** just got real real, way too quickly. 

 

Theyre about to kill all/ any momentum. 

 

 

Edited November 16, 2018 by PittsforDave

[26CornerBlitz]

1 minute ago, PittsforDave said:

We are creating a controversy here.

 

It’s not good to put Josh in a position like this, up against the wall. 

 

Its succeed or get benched for Barkley. ***** just got real real, way too quickly. 

 

That's not it at all and there is no controversy whatsoever. You are definitely misreading the situation as the primary concern is Allen gaining invaluable playing experience to acclerate his learning curve. 

[PittsforDave]

6 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

That's not it at all and there is no controversy whatsoever. You are definitely misreading the situation as the primary concern is Allen gaining invaluable playing experience to acclerate his learning curve. 

Predictably, Josh will come out flat for the Jax game and everyone will be calling for Barkley to start, this will create added pressure on Josh and he will continue to flounder. 

 

No controversy yet, Josh has to play well, very well, or there will be one, from the fans down to the media. 

 

It’s possible. It’s Billsy...

 

 

Edited November 16, 2018 by PittsforDave

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, PittsforDave said:

Predictably, Josh will come out flat for the Jax game and everyone will be calling for Barkley to start, this will create added pressure on Josh and he will continue to flounder. 

 

No controversy yet, Josh has to play well, very well, or there will be one, from

the fans down to the media. 

 

It’s possible. It’s Billsy...

 

The fans will not impact any decisions.  The team is committed to Allen's development and no journeyman factors into the equation.  Everyone should get this as it's obvious.