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WHO DESERVES THE BLAME?? THE PEGULAS!


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1 hour ago, oldmanfan said:

Tough times this year.  With respect to the culture stuff that gets criticized around here, go to si.com today and look at the article on the Pats victory yesterday, then read what Dwayne Allen says about the team.  Yep, it's all about culture. 

 

I am as frustrated as anyone with the way they looked yesterday.  People are blasting Peterman again, but he looked like what he is supposed to be yesterday, a backup QB.  When you hit WRs right in the numbers and they can't hold onto the ball, there isn't much you can do.  But he also went brain dead with his run at the end of the half, and that can't be accepted.

 

Despite all the howling at the moon, you cannot just continue to recycle HCs and GMs all the time and ever expect success.  Just won't happen.  The current GM and HC have said continually that the rebuild will take some time.  They're right.  They have to rebuild the O line; yesterday's performance up front was an embarrassment.   They have to find WRs other than Jones that will compete for balls and actually catch balls that hit them right in the hands.  They need to get their young franchise potential QB back on the field. 

 

So this year sucks, but I guess my age and history with the BIlls makes it less painful than for others.  I can still think back to the AFL championships of 1964 and 1965.  But I can also remember the days of Dan Darragh playing QB, or Joe Dufek, or coaches like John Rauch, Jim Ringo, Hank Bulllough.   So I know it can be way worse.

What the current situation reminds me of more than anything was the early 80's, when a young assistant GM named Bill Polian came on board as the new GM.  And the first thing he told Ralph was that he could not win with the players he had, and that he had to start spending money if he wanted to compete.  Even under Polian the first couple years were lean years, but after getting their QB, after drafting well, after judicious trades and FA acquisitions, you all know what happened.

 

Is Beane another Polian?  Or McD another Marv?  Have no way to tell right now.  If you think Beane and McD don't understand they need to do a serious upgrade on the offensive side of the ball, you're being willfully ignorant.  Can they accomplish that?  We will see.  They set themselves up to have a bunch of cap space and a bunch of picks.  It's on them to use them wisely.  if they don't, then they will deservedly be looking for employment down the road.

Truly the best and most intelligent post ever on TBD; thanks again oldmanfan! Remember 1968 and Ed Rutkowski at QB or Hank Bullough as the HC or Stew Barber as GM; if they only knew!

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51 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

Exactly. 

 

Note to Terry and Kim:  Anthony Lynn, who wasn't good enough for you, took the mediocre/can't win the big ones Chargers and got them to 9-7 years last season.  This season, they are 6-2 and have only lost to the Rams and Chiefs ... and Lynn's crew are 2-0 against McDermott and his sorry-assed offense.  He did that by building on what he had inherited on both sides of the ball, not tearing everything down to bring in "his guys".

 

I like ALynn but...   While some guys go to bed fantasizing about Playboy pinups,  McD fantasizes about having Phillip Rivers and a $170 million dollar  roster, instead of trotting out NP and the Bills talent-poor $127 million dollar roster.

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Here’s my take: People were exhausted  from finishing 7-9 every year...so people, THIS is what bad looks like! It isn’t pretty!  Train yourself not to get too upset and pray things turn around in the next couple of years. And yes, I said it...this is going to take a couple years or more just to get back to 7-9. There’s a bit more demolition to do before the foundation gets poured! 

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16 minutes ago, RochesterRob said:

  Last year was supposed to be the "tear it down and start the rebuild year" but we finished hot.  So this year serves that purpose.  We had some bad contracts to purge and 50M in dead cap.  How many teams are playoff caliber that have a similar cap problem?  None that I am aware of.  People think that we can get juice from a rock and it ain't happen'ed.  I understand people being upset at another lost season but there is a reason that nearly all of the people here are not working for a NFL team.  If it were as easy as some suggest our problems would have been fixed well before today.  I know that I am going to change very few minds here because it makes people feel good to criticize others without having to come up with real world solutions on their own.

It's fair criticism that the team is horrible. 100% fair. Everyone has an opinion about what should come next, but we all agree this team blows. 

 

I'm not saying its right, fair or optimal. No doubt some choices were made that stink. No doubt some things went the wrong way on the line with players no longer with the team. 

 

I was really just commenting on the ownership approach and what went into the selection of Beane and McDermott. It would be foolish to agree to a plan and bail on the plan when it's working so well that your fan base hates you. Again, that assumes this was all laid out as some, many have suggested. 

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19 minutes ago, billsfan61184 said:

 

The point was if Allen doesn't work out, we are going to be left to yet again use a high pick on a QB and hope it works out again.  Where else are you going to get a Franchise QB? Free Agency? Trade? Good luck

That is the same situation for 32 teams in the league.  Quit making it like the Bills are unique.

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55 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

Exactly. 

 

Note to Terry and Kim:  Anthony Lynn, who wasn't good enough for you, took the mediocre/can't win the big ones Chargers and got them to 9-7 years last season.  This season, they are 6-2 and have only lost to the Rams and Chiefs ... and Lynn's crew are 2-0 against McDermott and his sorry-assed offense.  He did that by building on what he had inherited on both sides of the ball, not tearing everything down to bring in "his guys".

  Anthony Lynn still has a lot to prove.  The Chargers have had periods where they were a great regular season team only to have done nothing in the playoffs.  As it stands today I don't see them getting past KC or NE in the playoffs.  If a championship is the measuring stick then I don't see where they have accomplished their mission.

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41 minutes ago, klos63 said:

I actually hope they told them to expect a really bad team, because if they thought this team was going to be good, I would be worried about their assessment of talent.

So if he told the Pegulas that what did he tell Kyle Williams that enticed him to come back? 

 

Somebody lied to somebody along the way and my money is on McBeane!

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1 minute ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

I like ALynn but...   While some guys go to bed fantasizing about Playboy pinups,  McD fantasizes about having Phillip Rivers and a $170 million dollar  roster, instead of trotting out NP and the Bills talent-poor $127 million dollar roster.

 

Yes but this was what Mcdermott brought on himself! He is the one who decided to release Tyrod and move on with no clear answer for the next year. He and Beane decided not to fill the holes made by departures of Wood and Incgonito. They decided to trade away Sammy and Darby and not re-sign Robert Woods.  He decided to have a 3 man competition of Allen, Peterman, and McCaron.  Mcdermott decided Peterman was the best of the 3. Peterman couldn't win against UB yet alone ANY NFL team. If we can all see it and Mcdermott couldn't then and he has no choice but to play him now, in my eyes he brought this all on himself and covered it up by calling it a "re-build"

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9 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

It's fair criticism that the team is horrible. 100% fair. Everyone has an opinion about what should come next, but we all agree this team blows. 

 

I'm not saying its right, fair or optimal. No doubt some choices were made that stink. No doubt some things went the wrong way on the line with players no longer with the team. 

 

I was really just commenting on the ownership approach and what went into the selection of Beane and McDermott. It would be foolish to agree to a plan and bail on the plan when it's working so well that your fan base hates you. Again, that assumes this was all laid out as some, many have suggested. 

  Anybody can see that the team is terrible (well, not the defense) but is the team heading in the right direction or do we have reason to believe they are heading in the right direction?  I think that the plan went a little different than expected so we are paying for a rebuild this year versus last year.  Let's see how they use their first 3 picks in 2019 and some of that 90 million dollars before we jump off of the bridge.

Edited by RochesterRob
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1 hour ago, pop gun said:

IMO the Pegulas were misled and lied to from these two clowns, I guess you could blame them for being nice people that are too naive and gullible.  

 

I have a very hard time believing that Terry and Kim, who have been very successful in business, are "naive and gullible."   They see what's going on.  Bean has not been a disaster, he has brought in talent (Edmunds, Phillips, White, Hyde, etc.).  MCD has zero help on offense.  The biggest failing is the failure to get good coaches for the  QB, OL and OC. 

 

 

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27 minutes ago, pop gun said:

So if he told the Pegulas that what did he tell Kyle Williams that enticed him to come back? 

 

Somebody lied to somebody along the way and my money is on McBeane!

No one lied.  Quit acting like a three year old.

26 minutes ago, billsfan61184 said:

 

Yes but this was what Mcdermott brought on himself! He is the one who decided to release Tyrod and move on with no clear answer for the next year. He and Beane decided not to fill the holes made by departures of Wood and Incgonito. They decided to trade away Sammy and Darby and not re-sign Robert Woods.  He decided to have a 3 man competition of Allen, Peterman, and McCaron.  Mcdermott decided Peterman was the best of the 3. Peterman couldn't win against UB yet alone ANY NFL team. If we can all see it and Mcdermott couldn't then and he has no choice but to play him now, in my eyes he brought this all on himself and covered it up by calling it a "re-build"

OK, enough of this nonsense. Some of the issues ae on them but some of the stuff here is just pure nonsense.  One by one:

 

1.  They released Tyrod because they felt he was not the kind of QB to get them where they wanted to go, and to pay 16 million for a backup is ridiculous. They should have brought a veteran in to back up Allen when they traded McCarron; that even Beane has said he regrets.  That is one them, as it as starting Peterman game 1.  

 

2.  Wood:  they had Groy who they felt was an adequate replacement based on his play a couple years ago.  They brought in Bodine.  There simply aren't that may good centers around the league, and Groy for whatever reason didn't come close to meeting expectations.  And Richie went nuts. 

 

3.  Sammy, Darby, Woods:  They did not fail to resign Woods, that was Whaley.  Beane wasn't even here.  They traded Sammy because they did not see paying a guy the kind of money he wanted.  He didn't earn that kind of money in LA, the Rams didn't think so either.  Darby isn't lighting the world on fire in Philly.

 

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2 hours ago, LabattBlue said:

Maybe you should wait a little while before proclaiming that the Sabres have turned it around.  After all, it's not hard to show improvement, when you were so bad the prior year.  Come talk to me when they have made the playoffs in a league where it shouldn't be that hard to achieve that(half the teams make the playoffs), but somehow the Sabres under the Pegula's have been a train wreck since they took over.

 

As of right now, as owners of the Bills and Sabres, they have shown NOTHING in terms of being competent owners, except their willingness to spend a lot of money.  Excuse me if I want more out of my local sports teams.

 

No one should be mad about Peterman.  Instead direct your anger at the buffoon of a HC who keeps trotting him out there, and the clueless owners who hired said HC.

 

Sounds good, I'll come talk to you in a few months when they make the playoffs. Perhaps you should grab a beer and enjoy the game Thursday night. Because based on your comments you haven't seen a Sabres game all season. This team is hardly a train wreck any more.

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I think the short sighted gents and ladies on here need to calm down a little bit. 

This season blows.. We knew it would. 

They ignored the offense. Yes. Basically on purpose. 

All their plans have not worked out, understood. 

But with the cap and draft next year (I know the 10 picks don’t mean much since the extras are later rounds) 

there is no reason these guys can’t upgrade the talent all across the board on offense. 

No matter your hate, frustration whatever the ENTIRE organization and their success is all on Allen developing. 

Beane and McDermotts jobs are linked to Allen’s success. 

Firing anyone now or in the offseason is just not good. 

You can argue maybe crossman Castillo or Frazier. 

But the others should be safe. 

In the end, this is either a playoff contender for years to come, or another rebuild in 3 years. 

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1 hour ago, RyanC883 said:

 

I have a very hard time believing that Terry and Kim, who have been very successful in business, are "naive and gullible."   They see what's going on.  Bean has not been a disaster, he has brought in talent (Edmunds, Phillips, White, Hyde, etc.).  MCD has zero help on offense.  The biggest failing is the failure to get good coaches for the  QB, OL and OC. 

 

 

If you think the biggest problem with the OL is coaching, you need to open your eyes.  They are beyond bad, and that falls in the laps of Beane and McClappy, or whomever is making the personnel decisions.

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1 hour ago, CuddyDark said:

Not really. When they fired Whaley Terry said it was because Whaley wouldn't allow him to walk in the building and talk football whenever he wanted to. He said with Beane/McDermott he can just show up and they'll stop what they're doing to talk football with him. Said Whaley made him have appointment. So some of the hiring process is whoever makes them feel good. Same with Rex. Rex was good at talking them up. Some of it has to be on the owners for the type of people they want to hire. They need this kiss ass culture where ownership is worshipped. I can't ever see them hiring a football man who does his job and tells them he's got it. Looking at their hires so far I'd say this is the type of organization they want.

 

Same as Ralph. Same as Jerry Jones. Some owners want credit and could never deal with a coach like Belichick or Jimmy Johnson. A lot of owners are very smart people and just can't imagine something they put so much into is too hard for them to control. They're controlling personalities and in their lives being controlling got them to a position of NFL ownership.

 

So, if your boss walks into your office and wants to talk about your job with you....do you tell him to make an appointment?

 

:lol:

 

You're sliding off into moron oblivion, man.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Woodman19 said:

The blame lay with the previous regime who capped us out being an 8-8 team.  Yes, we could have rebuilt slower and maintained a 7-9 type team to make everyone feel better but we chose to bite the bullet and take our medicine to fix it in one go.  This off-season is going to be what makes or breaks this regime since they will have the cap room, young players and surplus draft picks 

This. We could have kept Tyrod for another two years and backed into a wild card loss or two. But we weren't getting any further than that.

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Who deserves blame?  It starts from the top down. Yes, the Pegulas. They've been the owners for 4 years now with only 1 winning season, and overall for the 4 yrs,

an overwhelming losing record.

 

But the Pegulas are only partly the blame.The front office is, especially the decision-making during this past off-season for not getting better players in positions

that glaringly needed upgrading ,O-line, WR, & a veteran QB to keep. And, of course, the players. The defense is doing a good job, especially in light of the impotent

offense. But also, the coaches, especially on offense & spec teams are not cutting it either.

 

This is why, once again, we're playing basically pre-season football for the final 8 games because those games really don't count for anything, except for getting a little

playing experience for the younger guys. It's Groundhog Day all over again.

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12 minutes ago, The Real Buffalo Joe said:

This. We could have kept Tyrod for another two years and backed into a wild card loss or two. But we weren't getting any further than that.

And that is bad? Build a winning culture and start to sustain some success. I didnt realize the only option was to be awful before being good enough to win the super bowl. 

 

Lets look at the past super bowl champs

 

Eagles - many mediocre seasons. 

NE - when did they suck last? 

Den - Nope

Sea - Nope

Balt - Nope

NYG

GB

NO

PIT

 

 

And on and on. None of these teams used a bottom out and blow up approach. They were mostly consistent teams that make some good moves etc and get over the hump. 

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31 minutes ago, joesixpack said:

 

So, if your boss walks into your office and wants to talk about your job with you....do you tell him to make an appointment?

 

:lol:

 

You're sliding off into moron oblivion, man.

 

 

It's not about the appointment. Terry wanted to watch tape. He wanted the GM to sit down and explain to him what he's looking at and how to evaluate players. He wanted to be involved in the football side for which he has zero expertise. It's meddling ownership and it almost always fails. Look around the league. The best owners understand they are not football people and take a step back to a guy running the show. So far Terry hires yes men.

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21 minutes ago, PeterDude said:

 45 years and counting.

I see.....

 

If you did not live in the area and were spouting crap about not needing the team.....I would have a different message for you.

 

As it is.....you are definately in the minority of your thinking if you live in the area.....Pegula could have easily moved the team and frankly the NFL seemed to be encouraging it at the time.  This would not have bothered you but it DEF would have bother the ones that outnumber you.

 

 

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1 hour ago, vorpma said:

Truly the best and most intelligent post ever on TBD; thanks again oldmanfan! Remember 1968 and Ed Rutkowski at QB or Hank Bullough as the HC or Stew Barber as GM; if they only knew!

The important take away is the SB 1990's began in 1985, a 2-14 season and a process over a five year period. Over a 14 year period the Bills were in the playoffs 10 seasons (Just missing 1987, 1994, 1997, and 2000) and I remember all hell breaking lose when they lost a game despite ten win and over seasons. Great drafting, FA signings, and coaching made it happen just not overnight.

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What is the point of complaining about the owners. There is no way to change who owns the team the Pegulas were probably literally the only people who could purchase the bills and Sabres for what they did and keep them in Buffalo. From what we have been told there is no limitation on funds to give the coaches and players what they need to succeed. it may be questionable that Kim is the president with literally no sports experience but other than that what can you possibly be complaining about

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3 hours ago, pop gun said:

IMO the Pegulas were misled and lied to from these two clowns, I guess you could blame them for being nice people that are too naive and gullible.  

 

What specifically do you feel they lied about??

 

IMO what Beane and McD told the P's were they have too many overpaid contracts that need to be purged.  Until those are off the books we're going to be be pretty bad, but will have high draft choices. Maybe they mislead them last year  by winning 9 games when they thought they'd only win 5 or 6.

 

Admittedly they likely didn't think they'd be looking this bad. In hindsight they would have maybe been better developing some offense and some defense as opposed to all emphasis on one side.   But again, they likely didn't think they'd be anywhere this bad on offense either.

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3 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

What specifically do you feel they lied about??

 

IMO what Beane and McD told the P's were they have too many overpaid contracts that need to be purged.  Until those are off the books we're going to be be pretty bad, but will have high draft choices. Maybe they mislead them last year  by winning 9 games when they thought they'd only win 5 or 6.

 

Admittedly they likely didn't think they'd be looking this bad. In hindsight they would have maybe been better developing some offense and some defense as opposed to all emphasis on one side.   But again, they likely didn't think they'd be anywhere this bad on offense either.

I think it goes something like this

 

Kim and Terry "This offense SUCKS!
Bean and McD "Kim and Terry we told you it was going to get worse before it got better and you hired us to get this done for you.   We did not anticipate how bad the QB play was going to be and we didnt think we would be replacing over half of the offensive line......but give us a chance to carry out our plan and if you dont like the product next season....we will fire ourselves"

 

Kim and Terry "Sigh......."

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25 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

I see.....

 

If you did not live in the area and were spouting crap about not needing the team.....I would have a different message for you.

 

As it is.....you are definately in the minority of your thinking if you live in the area.....Pegula could have easily moved the team and frankly the NFL seemed to be encouraging it at the time.  This would not have bothered you but it DEF would have bother the ones that outnumber you.

 

 

Every Bills fan seems to dismiss the other Pro Team in town. The Sabres are a young and exciting team on their way up. 

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27 minutes ago, vorpma said:

The important take away is the SB 1990's began in 1985, a 2-14 season and a process over a five year period. Over a 14 year period the Bills were in the playoffs 10 seasons (Just missing 1987, 1994, 1997, and 2000) and I remember all hell breaking lose when they lost a game despite ten win and over seasons. Great drafting, FA signings, and coaching made it happen just not overnight.

So McD must be Kay Stephenson. Guess we have to wait until week 4 next year for him to be fired. 

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2 minutes ago, Jrb1979 said:

It seems a lot of the Bills fans don't follow hockey. Hockey is fast and entertaining sport. No down time between plays. 

I love hockey and there are signs the Sabres are coming to life....I just don't dismiss how awful they have been for the last 7-8 years. Buffalo fans should not have crappy teams most of the time

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44 minutes ago, CuddyDark said:

It's not about the appointment. Terry wanted to watch tape. He wanted the GM to sit down and explain to him what he's looking at and how to evaluate players. He wanted to be involved in the football side for which he has zero expertise. It's meddling ownership and it almost always fails. Look around the league. The best owners understand they are not football people and take a step back to a guy running the show. So far Terry hires yes men.

 

this is what i fear, and what fans should be tuned into. The whole structure of coach and GM are separate entities and both report directly to ownership is folly.  IMO, with both teams, they need an exec between the Pegulas and GM-level to call the shots.  They had that with LaFontaine (although inexperienced) and he left due to some unknown hi-jinks (I have heard some rumors of what led to that).

 

When the Sabres and Bills were both without coaches/GMs a few years ago... Terry Pegula was very careful to assert himself (and Kim) into the decision process of everything, and how moving forward everything is going to be done in collaboration.  They did not want to cede control to an individual.

 

If this works out, great.  But if it doesnt, then they need to find help at the top.  Involved ownership will also lead to a shelf life of successful management because a catastrophic rift is only right around the corner. 

Edited by May Day 10
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8 minutes ago, Jrb1979 said:

Every Bills fan seems to dismiss the other Pro Team in town. The Sabres are a young and exciting team on their way up. 

Really? They are the joke of the NHL. The worst record the past 7 seasons. Yes early in the season they are barely holding onto a playoff spot that could end one of the longest NHL droughts ever. 

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Just now, ngbills said:

Really? They are the joke of the NHL. The worst record the past 7 seasons. Yes early in the season they are barely holding onto a playoff spot that could end one of the longest NHL droughts ever. 

And the Bills are that much better. It seems Bills fans just look at the Sabres record and don't even watch then play.  At least the Sabres look to be turning it around and are exciting to watch.  

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