Brian Dabol's Offense

[BillsFan130]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

When you take the Quarterback runs out (which are not currently an option with Josh injured) they have the 3rd worst running game too.  There are no strengths on this offense - that is the problem.

Oh I agree. But I still think you have a much better chance of converting a first down running it on 3rd and 2 or 3. Cause if you’re short by a yard, then run it again. (If the field position applies of course)

[Maine-iac]

1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

The offense has no strengths, especially when you consider that keying on a good RB is about the easiest thing in the world to do if you have no fear of either the QB, the receivers, or the pass blocking ability of the line. 

My problem with this is that Daboll is not only in charge of playcalling but who's on the field and also making sure they know the playbook.  When you know they are keying on the run and you need runs that pick up positive yards Daboll needs to sit Shady and put Ivory in there.  When they are constantly calling time outs because people don't know where to line up some blame has to fall on him.  All of that said I thought he has called a number of decent games.  Execution is my largest problem with the offense and to this point in the season I'm not jumping on the "fire him" wagon but there does need to be visible improvement over the course of the season.  Even with the players he's fielding.   I've come away from the last couple of games thinking that McCoy is really handcuffing him.  If we start games off trying to establish the run and McCoy starts off each series with negative runs we fall flat on our faces.  If we bang out 3 and 4 yard runs a few times and then work Shady in on some screen passes or wheel routes we could have them loosened up by the second half and then McCoy might hit a home run or two.  Used to argue the same thing with Freddie and Spiller.  Jackson should have been starting long before he did.

Edited November 1, 2018 by Maine-iac

[Gugny]

4 minutes ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

yeah ok, we run alot, you're just pissed and want a scapgoat, McVay couldn't make these players look good.

 

 

 

I'm sorry, but you are incorrect.  We do not run a lot.  We ran a lot in our two wins.  We passed too much in our losses.

[Reed83HOF]

There is an article this week regarding this topic:

 

https://theathletic.com/623370/2018/10/31/what-was-up-with-the-wildcat-analyzing-brian-dabolls-eccentric-playcalling-vs-the-patriots-through-film/

 

Daboll was dealt a tough hand in 2018. The organization only has 30 percent of its entire salary cap (fifth least) this season committed to the offensive side of the ball and the lack of talent has shown every Sunday. But the Buffalo area native isn’t making any excuses.

 

“We all have a job to do” stated Daboll, “and my job is to help run the offense, put guys in position, improve them and win games, and right now we are falling short of that.”

 

Though the Bills lack talent, we can still evaluate the job Daboll has done so far. It comes down to what his intentions were with each play and if he put his players in the best positions to succeed.

 

The Bills offense is embarrassing — there’s no sugarcoating it — but fans do need to consider what Daboll is working with, which is very little talent at the skill positions. He’s also had to gameplan for three different quarterbacks, including whittling down the playbook for Anderson, who had six practices under his belt before his second start against the Patriots. 

 

All things considered, it appeared Daboll understood his opponent, what they were going to show on defense and how to attack. But, with the Bills’ execution lacking, the Patriots were able to run away with the game in the fourth quarter.

Edited November 1, 2018 by Reed83HOF

[ganesh]

6 hours ago, fansince88 said:

@Buffalo Barbarian Great post.I have been of the opinion that we need to stay the course like this for another year. 4 weeks ago the brilliant minds of TBD wanted the DC fired too.  We really are not as smart as it seems. I don't want Allen learning a new offence next year.

I don't think there is any problem wiht the offense...It is how Brian has been doing the play calling has been suspect.

[dave mcbride]

24 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

I'm sorry, but you are incorrect.  We do not run a lot.  We ran a lot in our two wins.  We passed too much in our losses.

Running or not running is HIGHLY dependent on the score of the game. What was the run pass ratio in each of the last two games while the games were still competitive?

 

Until the Colts score was 14-0, the Bills ran it 8 times and passed it 8  times. Of the first 29 plays against the Pats, 14 were running plays and 15 passing plays. Outside of the first run by McCoy, most of the other runs did nothing. That rushing ratio is significantly above the league average.

Edited November 1, 2018 by dave mcbride

[LSHMEAB]

2 hours ago, billsfan11 said:

The thing I don't understand Is why do people either completely blame it on the lack of talent, or completely blame it on Daboll?

 

In my opinion it is BOTH. The talent sucks, but at the same time Daboll has been awful as well.

 

Not a fan of his predictable play calling, throwing it on 3rd and shorts when they have Derek Anderson as their QB, running it on 2nd and longs into a stacked box, and his game planning as well. (I still don't understand how he thought running east/west against a Bills Belichick defence was a good strategy)

 

It does not have to be one or the other. It is very possible and actually even very probable that the talent and the OC is killing them at the same time.

This is what's so god*amn frustrating about the current state of affairs.

 

Everyone gets more time because there's a valid excuse to be made that it's someone else's fault. The QB sucks, but that's only because the offensive talent sucks. The OC sucks, but that's only because the QB's suck. 

 

At some point, it's OK to say they all suck.

[dave mcbride]

18 minutes ago, ganesh said:

I don't think there is any problem wiht the offense...It is how Brian has been doing the play calling has been suspect.

How so, specifically?

[Coach Tuesday]

I wouldn't be surprised if Daboll leaves to take a college OC (or lower-tier HC) job at the end of the year.  Not only has he been given zero support from the FO in terms of personnel, he hasn't even been allowed to hire his own staff - he's saddled with McD's horrible hires coaching the line and quarterback.  He's being set up to fail and if he's smart, he'll try to save his resume somewhere else.

[BuffaloHokie13]

40 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

When you take the Quarterback runs out (which are not currently an option with Josh injured) they have the 3rd worst running game too.  There are no strengths on this offense - that is the problem.

DVOA has us as the 29th rush offense (-19.5% with 32 being -26.8%) and the 32nd pass offense by an absurd margin (-71.0% with 31 being -37.8%).

[GunnerBill]

33 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

DVOA has us as the 29th rush offense (-19.5% with 32 being -26.8%) and the 32nd pass offense by an absurd margin (-71.0% with 31 being -37.8%).

 

Feels about right. 

[John from Riverside]

37 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

I wouldn't be surprised if Daboll leaves to take a college OC (or lower-tier HC) job at the end of the year.  Not only has he been given zero support from the FO in terms of personnel, he hasn't even been allowed to hire his own staff - he's saddled with McD's horrible hires coaching the line and quarterback.  He's being set up to fail and if he's smart, he'll try to save his resume somewhere else.

Lets see what happens here......

 

The fact that Deboll is still here despite the horrid offensive output actually leads me to beleive he may ore pull in the offseason on asst coach hires on the offensive side of the ball

 

 

[bills11]

Dabolls offence obviously is rooted in the pats system..but it's definitely his own spin on their variant of the e.p . We don't seem to run most of their usual plays which personnel has alot to do with. I think in year 2 well see the playbook open up more because there's alot of plays daboll hasn't had a chance to run due to lack of talent 

[Fadingpain]

The more one supports Daboll in the context of this discussion, the more one is also admitting that our quarterbacks, including Allen, just aren't very good.

 

 

[FistingBot]

I want to suck at my job everywhere I go (4 1/2 year and 4 different teams) and have people lining up to sing my praise. Daboll has been terrible as an offensive coordinator at every NFL stop. Buffalo so far is no different. Two TDs in the last 5 games and counting. No TDs our last 50 drives starting in our own territory. The worst scoring offense the league has seen since the 2006 Raiders. There is not a shred of empirical evidence that the guy can run an NFL offense as an OC given stops in Cleveland, Miami, Kansas City, and now Buffalo. Every place he goes his team is last in the league in offense, or close to it. But, yeah, his play calling and schemes are great. Because one talking head said so on twitter or the radio. Data and empirical evidence play not role in today's society.

 

I get that we're trotting out rookies and street free agents at the QB position and I don't expect miracles. Not a single person on this forum won't agree that our talent on offense is sub-par. But, we're historically terrible on offense. It's a level of incompetence rarely seen in modern NFL history. And, there is no way in hell Daboll doesn't play a significant role in that level of ineptitude. You can hear the frustration in Coach McD's voice when he answers questions about the offense (e.g., the post-game interview on Monday). Personally, I'd be stunned if Daboll is here next season (and he might not make it through the bye week).

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

37 minutes ago, Fadingpain said:

The more one supports Daboll in the context of this discussion, the more one is also admitting that our quarterbacks, including Allen, just aren't very good.

 

 

 

This is wrong. 

 

It is not that Allen isn't good, it is that he is a rookie, and an extremely raw one at that.  The rest of the QBs obviously suck, but to lump in Allen with them creates a fallacy. 

[Nihilarian]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think you're wrong I don't think he is even in the top 5 problems on offense.

 

The talent stinks. Not just a bit. A lot. It is historically bad.

I did mention that the lack of talent was a problem and coaches are supposed to make do with what they have on the roster. I just think Bills fans are using this as the ONLY excuse and the talent isn't as bad as they make it sound. 

 

Look at the first five games to see the discrepancy between the run vs pass:

Ravens 22 rushes vs 33 passes. 

Chargers 22 rushes vs 33 passes. 

Vikings 38 rushes vs 22 passes. WIN

Green Bay 16 rushes vs 38 passes.

Titans 43 rushes vs 20 passes.  WIN

Houston 27 rushes vs 29 passes.

Colts 22 rushes vs 31 passes.

Patriots 19 rushes vs 41 passes. 

 

Now, some of the passes Daboll was asking the rookie QB in to make are middle to deep passes with a bad line and knowing he has difficulty reading defense and setting protections. What's wrong with that picture? The Run game gets stuffed so he stops calling run plays and calls for more passes KNOWING he is making a rookie QB carry the offense. 

 

Now look at the Vikings game and the Bills rushed 38 times for 128 yards, 2 TDs. The thing is QB Josh Allen 10 rushes for 39 yards had both of those rushing TDs. Passing Josh Allen was 15 for 22, for 196 yards, 1 TD.  Bills 38 rushes vs 22 passes which is a reverse of what happened in the first two games. 

 

The Bills got the lead early and the run game worked, the passing game worked and the Bills literally dominated the Vikings 27-6.  So why didn't this happen in other games? 

 

It did against the Titans, the Bills rushed for 43 times vs 20 passes, controlled the clock more and won the game.

 

Against the Patriots Anderson threw for 290 yards! Alas, 19 rushes vs 41 passes. Anderson can make some of those throws that Allen and Peterman don't see and it doesn't always help with no run game. What QB would work in this offense without the run game to support him? 

 

LeSean McCoy is by far the best talent on this offense and this OC needs to find a way to get him the ball in space in both the run game and pass game. Gailey could do it... why cant Daboll? 

[Coach Tuesday]

51 minutes ago, Fadingpain said:

The more one supports Daboll in the context of this discussion, the more one is also admitting that our quarterbacks, including Allen, just aren't very good.

 

 

 

100% wrong, impressively so.  Literally you can't be much more wrong than this.

 

The reasons you can't yet evaluate Allen are the same reasons you can't yet evaluate Daboll - the surrounding cast is too poor.

[Nihilarian]

12 minutes ago, October 1918 said:

I want to suck at my job everywhere I go (4 1/2 year and 4 different teams) and have people lining up to sing my praise. Daboll has been terrible as an offensive coordinator at every NFL stop. Buffalo so far is no different. Two TDs in the last 5 games and counting.

 

No TDs our last 50 drives starting in our own territory. The worst scoring offense the league has seen since the 2006 Raiders. There is not a shred of empirical evidence that the guy can run an NFL offense as an OC given stops in Cleveland, Miami, Kansas City, and now Buffalo.

 

Every place he goes his team is last in the league in offense, or close to it. But, yeah, his play calling and schemes are great. Because one talking head said so on twitter or the radio. Data and empirical evidence play not role in today's society.

 

I get that we're trotting out rookies and street free agents at the QB position and I don't expect miracles. Not a single person on this forum won't agree that our talent on offense is sub-par. But, we're historically terrible on offense. It's a level of incompetence rarely seen in modern NFL history. And, there is no way in hell Daboll doesn't play a significant role in that level of ineptitude. You can hear the frustration in Coach McD's voice when he answers questions about the offense (e.g., the post-game interview on Monday). Personally, I'd be stunned if Daboll is here next season (and he might not make it through the bye week).

Very well said!

 

It almost makes me wonder if Daboll is still on Robert Kraft's payroll to throw games. Then I look at his history and say nah, he just sucks and always has. Now that Patriots game was week 8 and I'm kind of surprised a change wasn't made this week. Although you might be right in that he won't make it past the bye week. 

 

The team has an experienced NFL HC and OC in WR coach Terry Robiskie.

[BuffaloHokie13]

25 minutes ago, October 1918 said:

I want to suck at my job everywhere I go (4 1/2 year and 4 different teams) and have people lining up to sing my praise. Daboll has been terrible as an offensive coordinator at every NFL stop. Buffalo so far is no different. Two TDs in the last 5 games and counting. No TDs our last 50 drives starting in our own territory. The worst scoring offense the league has seen since the 2006 Raiders. There is not a shred of empirical evidence that the guy can run an NFL offense as an OC given stops in Cleveland, Miami, Kansas City, and now Buffalo. Every place he goes his team is last in the league in offense, or close to it. But, yeah, his play calling and schemes are great. Because one talking head said so on twitter or the radio. Data and empirical evidence play not role in today's society.

 

I get that we're trotting out rookies and street free agents at the QB position and I don't expect miracles. Not a single person on this forum won't agree that our talent on offense is sub-par. But, we're historically terrible on offense. It's a level of incompetence rarely seen in modern NFL history. And, there is no way in hell Daboll doesn't play a significant role in that level of ineptitude. You can hear the frustration in Coach McD's voice when he answers questions about the offense (e.g., the post-game interview on Monday). Personally, I'd be stunned if Daboll is here next season (and he might not make it through the bye week).

If anything I think Daboll stays and requests his own staff. Out with Castillo, Culley, and Robiskie; in with coaches of his choosing instead of the ones he was saddled with.

[TroutDog]

From an article in the Athletic:

 

”The Bills offense is embarrassing — there’s no sugarcoating it — but fans do need to consider what Daboll is working with, which is very little talent at the skill positions. He’s also had to gameplan for three different quarterbacks, including whittling down the playbook for Anderson, who had six practices under his belt before his second start against the Patriots. Anderson is currently in concussion protocol, so there’s a good chance Daboll will need to tweak things again for Nathan Peterman in Sunday’s matchup against the Bears.

 

All things considered, it appeared Daboll understood his opponent, what they were going to show on defense and how to attack. But, with the Bills’ execution lacking, the Patriots were able to run away with the game in the fourth quarter.”

 

https://theathletic.com/623370/2018/10/31/what-was-up-with-the-wildcat-analyzing-brian-dabolls-eccentric-playcalling-vs-the-patriots-through-film/

[GunnerBill]

46 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

I did mention that the lack of talent was a problem and coaches are supposed to make do with what they have on the roster. I just think Bills fans are using this as the ONLY excuse and the talent isn't as bad as they make it sound. 

 

Look at the first five games to see the discrepancy between the run vs pass:

Ravens 22 rushes vs 33 passes. 

Chargers 22 rushes vs 33 passes. 

Vikings 38 rushes vs 22 passes. WIN

Green Bay 16 rushes vs 38 passes.

Titans 43 rushes vs 20 passes.  WIN

Houston 27 rushes vs 29 passes.

Colts 22 rushes vs 31 passes.

Patriots 19 rushes vs 41 passes. 

 

Now, some of the passes Daboll was asking the rookie QB in to make are middle to deep passes with a bad line and knowing he has difficulty reading defense and setting protections. What's wrong with that picture? The Run game gets stuffed so he stops calling run plays and calls for more passes KNOWING he is making a rookie QB carry the offense. 

 

Now look at the Vikings game and the Bills rushed 38 times for 128 yards, 2 TDs. The thing is QB Josh Allen 10 rushes for 39 yards had both of those rushing TDs. Passing Josh Allen was 15 for 22, for 196 yards, 1 TD.  Bills 38 rushes vs 22 passes which is a reverse of what happened in the first two games. 

 

The Bills got the lead early and the run game worked, the passing game worked and the Bills literally dominated the Vikings 27-6.  So why didn't this happen in other games? 

 

It did against the Titans, the Bills rushed for 43 times vs 20 passes, controlled the clock more and won the game.

 

Against the Patriots Anderson threw for 290 yards! Alas, 19 rushes vs 41 passes. Anderson can make some of those throws that Allen and Peterman don't see and it doesn't always help with no run game. What QB would work in this offense without the run game to support him? 

 

LeSean McCoy is by far the best talent on this offense and this OC needs to find a way to get him the ball in space in both the run game and pass game. Gailey could do it... why cant Daboll? 

 

Dave Mcbride answered the run v pass thing on the previous page. While games are close this is a balanced offense. The large number of pass attempts is because games get away from us. 

 

As for why Gailey could get CJ going when Daboll can't get McCoy going.... Gailey had an offensive line. Two guards who could get out and set up a screen plus Cordy Glenn and Eric Wood. Try running a screen with Ducasse and Miller as your guards and the results are unblocked defenders sniffing it out before it has a chance. 

 

Did you see Jordan Mills try and execute a cut block on Monday Night and succeed only in taking himself and Miller out of the play? Yea. That is a thing. A real thing. An offensive line with 1 player. Wide receivers who couldn't block a sink or catch a cold. Oh and Gailey had Fitz. Who wouldn't just be a starter on this offense who would immediately become its second best player (after Shady). The Bills would kill to have Fitz right now. 

 

The talent is atrocious. Most of it will never start in the NFL again once the Bills cut ties. A lot of it will be lucky to make a 53 ever again. 

[CaptnCoke11]

9 hours ago, ProcessTruster said:

I love this offense.   Certainly has worked for the Patriots for 15+ years. 

Sorry i don’t see any resemblance 

[Nihilarian]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Dave Mcbride answered the run v pass thing on the previous page. While games are close this is a balanced offense. The large number of pass attempts is because games get away from us. 

 

As for why Gailey could get CJ going when Daboll can't get McCoy going.... Gailey had an offensive line. Two guards who could get out and set up a screen plus Cordy Glenn and Eric Wood. Try running a screen with Ducasse and Miller as your guards and the results are unblocked defenders sniffing it out before it has a chance. 

 

Did you see Jordan Mills try and execute a cut block on Monday Night and succeed only in taking himself and Miller out of the play? Yea. That is a thing. A real thing. An offensive line with 1 player. Wide receivers who couldn't block a sink or catch a cold. Oh and Gailey had Fitz. Who wouldn't just be a starter on this offense who would immediately become its second best player (after Shady). The Bills would kill to have Fitz right now. 

 

The talent is atrocious. Most of it will never start in the NFL again once the Bills cut ties. A lot of it will be lucky to make a 53 ever again. 

Just because the team gets behind in points.. it should never cause them to throw the baby out the window with the bathwater. Run your game plan no matter what because they don't have an elite QB...as they have a rookie behind center. Throwing 33 times a game with a rookie QB (or an inexperienced QB Peterman, or a guy just 3 weeks off the street) and no run game is just plain stupid. 

 

While I agree that the talent is lacking...very much so. It's also lacking in the coaching with all the stupid penalties, the bad schemes, game plans. 

 

Did I mention that Daboll isn't the only culprit here as the line coach/run game coordinator Juan Castillo also stinks.

 

This OC shouldn't be calling for mid to deep passes that require time to throw when the line can't conceivably give him that time. Thus all the sacks, throw aways, errant throws.

 

Chan Gailey had Fitz, like Anderson who can read a defense and set protections. Anderson threw 41 times for 290 yards against NE and what did it accomplish?  The Bills weren't down by that much against NE and there was no reason in the world to rush the ball only 19 times. 1st QTR down by 3 pts, 2nd QTR down by 3 pts, 3rd QTR down by 3 pts.

 

The Patriots were keying on McCoy 12 rushes for 13 yards and yet Ivory 6 rushes for 34 yards a 5.7 YPC avg. SO WHY NOT RUN IVORY MORE? 19 rushes vs 41 throws was simply moronic.

 

 

BTW, Gailey also ran a spread formation which was easier to run from because the defense was so spread out that all the RB needed to do was beat one defender and it was a race. That's scheme! 

[GunnerBill]

17 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

 

BTW, Gailey also ran a spread formation which was easier to run from because the defense was so spread out that all the RB needed to do was beat one defender and it was a race. That's scheme! 

 

There have been plenty of spread concepts in what Daboll is running too. 

19 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

Chan Gailey had Fitz, like Anderson who can read a defense and set protections. Anderson threw 41 times for 290 yards against NE and what did it accomplish?  The Bills weren't down by that much against NE and there was no reason in the world to rush the ball only 19 times. 1st QTR down by 3 pts, 2nd QTR down by 3 pts, 3rd QTR down by 3 pts.

 

Anderson isn't even in the same class as Fitz. 

[LSHMEAB]

2 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

Lets see what happens here......

 

The fact that Deboll is still here despite the horrid offensive output actually leads me to beleive he may ore pull in the offseason on asst coach hires on the offensive side of the ball

 

 

Are you spelling it Deboll on purpose?

[John from Riverside]

1 minute ago, LSHMEAB said:

Are you spelling it Deboll on purpose?

naaaaaaa

[Boatdrinks]

1 hour ago, Nihilarian said:

Very well said!

 

It almost makes me wonder if Daboll is still on Robert Kraft's payroll to throw games. Then I look at his history and say nah, he just sucks and always has. Now that Patriots game was week 8 and I'm kind of surprised a change wasn't made this week. Although you might be right in that he won't make it past the bye week. 

 

The team has an experienced NFL HC and OC in WR coach Terry Robiskie.

I agree on Robiskie. He has 37 years of experience in the NFL, including OC of better offenses than Daboll. That’s a low bar, and some of that experience was really a different age of NFL offense. However , Daboll should be gone when the bye week rolls around. Maybe TR will realize that you have to throw on first down a fair amount of the time. In the offseason a sweeping overhaul will be required on the offensive side. I don’t see McD making the necessary changes to save his job, but perhaps he will surprise. 

[Augie]

1 hour ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

100% wrong, impressively so.  Literally you can't be much more wrong than this.

 

The reasons you can't yet evaluate Allen are the same reasons you can't yet evaluate Daboll - the surrounding cast is too poor.

 

....and..... don’t forget....he’s a ROOKIE! 

[TigerJ]

3 hours ago, bills11 said:

Dabolls offence obviously is rooted in the pats system..but it's definitely his own spin on their variant of the e.p . We don't seem to run most of their usual plays which personnel has alot to do with. I think in year 2 well see the playbook open up more because there's alot of plays daboll hasn't had a chance to run due to lack of talent 

This is close to what I'm thinking and expecting.

[vincec]

The guy has never been successful as an NFL offensive coordinator in stints with multiple teams and is currently running the worst offense in the NFL and possible franchise history. I appreciate that we don’t want to judge him to soon but he has a LOT yet to prove.

Edited November 1, 2018 by vincec

[Nihilarian]

52 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

There have been plenty of spread concepts in what Daboll is running too. 

 

Anderson isn't even in the same class as Fitz. 

Don't think I've ever seen Daboll call a run play from a 5 WR shotgun spread. Fitz and Anderson are both backups and the latter only had 3 weeks to prepare and still threw for 290 yards. 

 

Anyway, You seem to have nonchalantly glossed over the more important points.

 

1st. With Daboll the run game goes out the window even being down by as little as 3 points as this happened for 3 quarters against New England. He likes to go pass happy! the score shouldn't change the game plan unless its late in the 4th quarter and the team is down by a ton.

 

2nd. Fails to see which RB has the hot hand and then utilize them to build a decent ground game, Ivory had the hot hand against NE with a 5.7 YPC AVG, and he saw only 6 carries. This has happened in other games too. Against the Colts Marcus Murphy a 13.3 YPC and he saw only 4 carries. Ivory was getting a 5.1 YPC and he saw 16 carries. He should have seen 25+. week 6 against the Texans McCoy was getting 4.6 YPC and saw only 16 carries. week 4 against the Packers McCoy was getting 4.8 YPC and saw 5 carries...WTF! 

 

3rd. calling for mid to deep passes when he must know that offensive line won't give the QBs the time needed to make those throws. Thus the sacks, INTs, errant throws, throw aways. 

 

4th. running the ball should be the top priority and finding different ways to get the best player on offense in space (McCoy)should also be a top priority. The way this team is running the ball up the middle or off left guard is making McCoy look bad. Against the Patriots he had 12 rushes for 13 yards. This tells me he is getting hit in the backfield and has no room to run. On the coaches! 

 

Daboll stunk in his former jobs as OC and he is even worse with less talent in Buffalo. No TDs on 50 drives! 87-200 point differential. Yikes! 

 

 

[US Egg]

"Brian Daboll's Offense"

 

With the offense that McBeane assembled this is what Daboll's playbook might as well look like:

 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

...let's assume the53 roster count is split evenly between offense & defense, giving the odd guy to defense......so now the offense tally is 26.......you mean that one should assume that other than Shady, Daboll has 25 empty suits to work with, extorting 1/2 or maybe $80 mil in paychecks?....so I should believe his offensive process, creativeness and innovativeness has been "victimized" by forcing him to work with 25 empty suits raking in $80 mil?......interesting.............

[Gray Beard]

11 hours ago, Gugny said:

 

 

This is exactly what the problem is. 

 

This is exactly why fans don't like Daboll.

 

This is exactly why Daboll has failed everywhere he's gone in the NFL, outside of New England.

 

There is one reason - and only one reason - the Patriots offense is successful for the Patriots.  Running that offense on a team that doesn't have a QB of Brady's caliber is stupid.  Running that offense with the QBs on the Bills' roster is nothing short of asinine.

 

He was a bad hire.

Thank you for writing this. I agree completely. 

Brady throws to a spot within about a second of receiving the snap.

He and his receivers have read the defense.  They know what to do.

His throws are not only instantaneous, but they are also accurate. 

Many people, including me, have been screaming for an offense with quick throws to open receivers.  I have assumed that Daboll was the problem. Perhaps I am wrong. Perhaps it’s the talent difference that is the issue, not the play calling. 

This goes back to that argument that has been discussed mostly about the defense.... why do coaches claim they need different players to make their scheme work, why can’t they design a scheme based on the players they have?

[Maine-iac]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Dave Mcbride answered the run v pass thing on the previous page. While games are close this is a balanced offense. The large number of pass attempts is because games get away from us. 

 

As for why Gailey could get CJ going when Daboll can't get McCoy going.... Gailey had an offensive line. Two guards who could get out and set up a screen plus Cordy Glenn and Eric Wood. Try running a screen with Ducasse and Miller as your guards and the results are unblocked defenders sniffing it out before it has a chance. 

 

Did you see Jordan Mills try and execute a cut block on Monday Night and succeed only in taking himself and Miller out of the play? Yea. That is a thing. A real thing. An offensive line with 1 player. Wide receivers who couldn't block a sink or catch a cold. Oh and Gailey had Fitz. Who wouldn't just be a starter on this offense who would immediately become its second best player (after Shady). The Bills would kill to have Fitz right now. 

 

The talent is atrocious. Most of it will never start in the NFL again once the Bills cut ties. A lot of it will be lucky to make a 53 ever again. 

To be fair Gailey also understood when to use which back.  If you look at starts, Freddie started as many games as Spiller and was much better between the tackles.  Spiller used to drive me nuts dancing around also.  In his better years he seemed more decisive and other years he was guilty of too many negative plays.  Daboll would be wise to learn when to use Ivory a little more and in my opinion it would actually help to get McCoy going.  See also Karlos Williams, and Gillislee.  McCoy has always benefited from someone who can take a few carries and soften them up.

[Formerly Allan in MD]

It's offensive.

[Thurman#1]

13 hours ago, Gugny said:

 

The run pass ratio is ridiculous in the Bills' losses.  Not coincidentally, the run pass ratio is quite different in the Bills' wins.

 

He likes the pass too much.  He needs to realize that Tom Brady isn't the QB here.

 

His game plans in every loss have been horrible and, for lack of a better term, just plain stupid.

 

 

Yeah, it must be the game plan.

 

It certainly couldn't be because when a team is losing by a lot they have to pass a whole lot to catch up, could it? And we've - you know - been behind by a lot ... a lot. Couldn't be that, could it? Or that on plays like 3rd and 11 a pass is more likely to get a first down then a run and that we've seen a lot of situations like 3rd and 11 this year? Or that teams are laughing at our pass game and loading the box making it very diff

 

Oh, wait, it could. So it is indeed not a coincidence that the ratio is different between wins and losses. But you're confusing cause and effect. Teams that suffer big losses pretty much always are slanted towards far more passing than running.

 

You need far more evidence to make this point.

 

 

Edited November 2, 2018 by Thurman#1

[Thurman#1]

11 hours ago, October 1918 said:

I want to suck at my job everywhere I go (4 1/2 year and 4 different teams) and have people lining up to sing my praise. Daboll has been terrible as an offensive coordinator at every NFL stop. Buffalo so far is no different. Two TDs in the last 5 games and counting. No TDs our last 50 drives starting in our own territory. The worst scoring offense the league has seen since the 2006 Raiders. There is not a shred of empirical evidence that the guy can run an NFL offense as an OC given stops in Cleveland, Miami, Kansas City, and now Buffalo. Every place he goes his team is last in the league in offense, or close to it. But, yeah, his play calling and schemes are great. Because one talking head said so on twitter or the radio. Data and empirical evidence play not role in today's society.

 

I get that we're trotting out rookies and street free agents at the QB position and I don't expect miracles. Not a single person on this forum won't agree that our talent on offense is sub-par. But, we're historically terrible on offense. It's a level of incompetence rarely seen in modern NFL history. And, there is no way in hell Daboll doesn't play a significant role in that level of ineptitude. You can hear the frustration in Coach McD's voice when he answers questions about the offense (e.g., the post-game interview on Monday). Personally, I'd be stunned if Daboll is here next season (and he might not make it through the bye week).

 

 

I'm glad that you want that. I wish it for you if it's your wish.

 

But that's not what Daboll has done. If he really had sucked, he wouldn't have been hired at Alabama. Or New England. He just wouldn't have.

 

Offensive success is based on many many different factors. One of them is the OC and the play-calling. Another is the quality of the offensive roster and the QB in particular. Bad rosters can hamstring good OCs. And vice-versa.

 

But Belichick and Saban are two of the canniest strategists in football. And both hired Daboll. Open your mind to the possibility that a lot of the offensive failure of those teams may have been due to the fact that he was working with truly awful QBs and rosters. Including the one here. If Wood and Incognito had been here, maybe we could have seen a bit better offense. But they're gone and the line is having problems, as is the QBs and the WRs. It isn't hard for teams to figure out where they should place their resources to stop the Bills when the one good position group on the offense is the RBs.

 

If Daboll isn't here next season, we'll know McDermott agrees with you. That could happen, easily. But it might not. We'll have to see.

[GunnerBill]

9 hours ago, Nihilarian said:

Don't think I've ever seen Daboll call a run play from a 5 WR shotgun spread. Fitz and Anderson are both backups and the latter only had 3 weeks to prepare and still threw for 290 yards. 

 

Anyway, You seem to have nonchalantly glossed over the more important points.

 

1st. With Daboll the run game goes out the window even being down by as little as 3 points as this happened for 3 quarters against New England. He likes to go pass happy! the score shouldn't change the game plan unless its late in the 4th quarter and the team is down by a ton.

 

2nd. Fails to see which RB has the hot hand and then utilize them to build a decent ground game, Ivory had the hot hand against NE with a 5.7 YPC AVG, and he saw only 6 carries. This has happened in other games too. Against the Colts Marcus Murphy a 13.3 YPC and he saw only 4 carries. Ivory was getting a 5.1 YPC and he saw 16 carries. He should have seen 25+. week 6 against the Texans McCoy was getting 4.6 YPC and saw only 16 carries. week 4 against the Packers McCoy was getting 4.8 YPC and saw 5 carries...WTF! 

 

3rd. calling for mid to deep passes when he must know that offensive line won't give the QBs the time needed to make those throws. Thus the sacks, INTs, errant throws, throw aways. 

 

4th. running the ball should be the top priority and finding different ways to get the best player on offense in space (McCoy)should also be a top priority. The way this team is running the ball up the middle or off left guard is making McCoy look bad. Against the Patriots he had 12 rushes for 13 yards. This tells me he is getting hit in the backfield and has no room to run. On the coaches! 

 

Daboll stunk in his former jobs as OC and he is even worse with less talent in Buffalo. No TDs on 50 drives! 87-200 point differential. Yikes! 

 

 

 

1. It was late in the 4th and we were down by more than a touchdown. After James White scored we ran 22 legal offensive plays. 21 pass plays and one run. Before that 19 pass v 18 rush. I'd call that pretty balanced.

 

2. Ah the hot hand. Cos change of pace backs never end up with better ypc than feature backs? Maybe every OC should go hot hand?

 

3. There really have not been many of these since the Green Bay game. Two that he did dial up vs New England worked.... except for Clay can't separate and on the second one Anderson fumbled the snap. Players. Not coaching.

 

4. Actually against New England they were trying to get Shady to the edge not run him behind the left guard. He kept getting swallowed in the backfield because.... NEWSFLASH our offensive line sucks. 

 

I am not trying to argue Daboll is good, his resume as an OC is not encouraging. But it is so hard to judge him when the talent is historically bad and the execution is brutal. Week after week after week. Eventually when patterns repeat you have say "maybe these guys just can't play". And they can't. That is the point.