I actually like Daboll!

[Estelle Getty]

The man is atleast attempting to run a real NFL offense. Very rarely do you see the run, run, pass combo we have come so accustom to over the last few years. Gone are the days of draw up the middle out of the shotgun for 1 yard over and over. 

 

The only issue is he is trying to run a modern day NFL offense with Junior College talent.  I think his stubbornness will pay off in the long run by helping to weed out the players who can’t hack it in a real offense. Much like we saw a defensive overhaul this year I would expect the same on offense next year.  

 

I have confidence that McBeane have the ability to figure it out, as they did on defense.  As far as McDermott, let’s not forget he got us to the playoffs with a joke of a roster last year.  This year any educated fan could see we were not built to win although there was always the outside chance much like last year.     

[Bing Bong]

It sounds like Daboll isn't good at knowing offense if he has a system his players suck at.

[John from Riverside]

7 minutes ago, PetermanThrew5Picks said:

It sounds like Daboll isn't good at knowing offense if he has a system his players suck at.

What offense should he run to improve the talent of his players?

[Bing Bong]

1 minute ago, John from Riverside said:

What offense should he run to improve the talent of his players?

What offense will maximize each players talents? That's his job.

[John from Riverside]

1 minute ago, PetermanThrew5Picks said:

What offense will maximize each players talents? That's his job.

Which is?

[KOKO NFL]

I don't have a problem with Daboll either. I think his qualifications certainly exceed his current players on the offensive side of the ball. Am hoping he will be kept for year two to build some continuity. Having said that, it's unclear whether McDermott and Beane have the acumen to provide the O with impact starters in the upcoming draft and free agency. 2018 was a poor year for them. 2019 will be make or break for the FO with a lot riding on Josh Allen's progress.

[KD in CA]

The only certain things in life are death, taxes and TSW hating whoever holds the job of Bills OC.

 

[MJS]

7 minutes ago, KOKO NFL said:

I don't have a problem with Daboll either. I think his qualifications certainly exceed his current players on the offensive side of the ball. Am hoping he will be kept for year two to build some continuity. Having said that, it's unclear whether McDermott and Beane have the acumen to provide the O with impact starters in the upcoming draft and free agency. 2018 was a poor year for them. 2019 will be make or break for the FO with a lot riding on Josh Allen's progress.

 

I don't think he really has qualifications, to be honest. He sucked as a coordinator with the Browns and then eventually took a lesser role with New England. Then he coordinated in Alabama for a year. The qualification shelf is pretty bare.

 

I get it that the offensive talent is a joke, but there really isn't any reason to believe that Daboll is any good.

 

My 2 cents.

3 minutes ago, KD in CA said:

The only certain things in life are death, taxes and TSW hating whoever holds the job of Bills OC.

 

That means the other certain thing is that the Bills will always have a terrible offense?

 

When the offense doesn't suck, people won't hate the coordinator or the players. It's quite simple. When the results are bad, hate follows.

[GunnerBill]

6 hours ago, MJS said:

 

I don't think he really has qualifications, to be honest. He sucked as a coordinator with the Browns and then eventually took a lesser role with New England. Then he coordinated in Alabama for a year. The qualification shelf is pretty bare.

 

I get it that the offensive talent is a joke, but there really isn't any reason to believe that Daboll is any good.

 

My 2 cents.

 

That means the other certain thing is that the Bills will always have a terrible offense?

 

When the offense doesn't suck, people won't hate the coordinator or the players. It's quite simple. When the results are bad, hate follows.

 

I agree there isn't much to lead you to believe Daboll is up to it. But the talent is so bad I really struggle to evaluate the job he is doing here in Buffalo. The offense they ran the first 4 weeks was pretty creative. After the team layed an egg against Green Bay they have simplified and gone to a very vanilla look. I suspect that is on McDermott's orders but for me the problem is talent. You can run misdirection run plays with complex blocking schemes or you can run simpler rushing plays with straightforward blocking. Eventually your guy has to beat their guy. It isn't happening enough. Same with route combinations for the receivers you can innovate or simplify eventually your guys has to get open and catch the ball. The problem is clearly talent to my mind. Daboll may still suck with talent. But our guys can't execute anything at all with any consistency. 

 

As for fans only hating bad OCs.... nah. Plenty hated Greg Roman too and he was pretty good. But for plenty of fans here he ran it too much, too many 3 and outs, didn't let Tyrod loose (he got the best production of Tyrod's career out of Tyrod) etc. The Bills fans will only be happy when we have a coordinator who calls 60%+ pass plays and they are almost all well executed. Which is another way of saying what they really want is a Franchise Quarterback. 

[T master]

6 hours ago, MJS said:

 

I don't think he really has qualifications, to be honest. He sucked as a coordinator with the Browns and then eventually took a lesser role with New England. Then he coordinated in Alabama for a year. The qualification shelf is pretty bare.

 

I get it that the offensive talent is a joke, but there really isn't any reason to believe that Daboll is any good.

 

My 2 cents.

 

That means the other certain thing is that the Bills will always have a terrible offense?

 

When the offense doesn't suck, people won't hate the coordinator or the players. It's quite simple. When the results are bad, hate follows.

 

!st yr OC with this team, 1st yr new scheme, loss of 3 veteran starting offensive linemen one of which was a pro bowler, well below average WR corp, Rookie QB after a 2nd round 2nd yr QB with less than NFL potential starts the yr, then insert almost retired average at best QB with a career 20-27 win percentage after rookie gets hurt to carry the team .

 

Sounds logical to me why you would think this OC sucks yah he has plenty to work with & there was no uphill battle here at all so WTF Dabol get off your A** & get this team on the winning side of things !!  

[Bill from NYC]

6 hours ago, PetermanThrew5Picks said:

What offense will maximize each players talents? That's his job.

Seriously, did you look at your screen name before posting this?

 

I have seen this movie over and over. People have been blaming the Bills losses on coaches, assistants, and schemes.

 

We all have our own coping mechanisms but the truth is, this team has little to no talent and almost none at all on offense.

 

I am just hoping once again for a good, sensible draft and that Josh can stay healthy behind this high school level OL.

 

PS: There WERE coaches who were bad beyond words. Jauron comes to mind. Daboll is a good football man but his job would be impossible for the best coaches of all time.

[Coach Tuesday]

What's odd to me is that there are many folks here who contend that it's impossible to evaluate Josh Allen this season given the poor talent he has around him - yet have no problem criticizing Daboll.  If it's true for Allen, it's true for Daboll...

 

I have no idea if he's a good OC or not.  What I do know is that Brandon Beane's personnel department cannot evaluate offense and, I suspect, Beane lacks a coherent strategy for building an offense.  Hopefully at the very least Daboll knows what he looks for in the various positions on offense and can effectively communicate that to Beane ahead of this critical offseason.  It may be more important than his play calling abilities.

Edited October 25, 2018 by Coach Tuesday

[YoloinOhio]

There is no way to fairly evaluate Daboll as OC this season. There are things you can look at and assess in terms of scheme but overall he signed up for a train wreck and should be given at least 2 years and some talent to work before judging him.

[Cripple Creek]

6 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

What offense should he run to improve the talent of his players?

What did undermanned NCAA schools do? The wing T spread seems like a good fit.

[BigBuff423]

It is extremely hard to judge Daboll given the Rookie QB / total garbage dump that is behind Allen, the lazy WR who looks like he'd rather be playing shuffle board than football and the TE who received an inflated contract due to Greg Roman's scheme and then couldn't stay healthy or effective and an aging RB with as many miles as trailer trash hooker with Two-For-Tuesdays coupon book since 1970. 

 

I agree with the OP that I *do* think McBeane will get it all to come together and that they simply focused on building to their strengths first, cleaning off the Cap mess, and then completely overhaul the Offense. 

 

If you look at it objectively McD took their LT of the future to protect the QBs blindside, they took the all time leader in FBS history in catches to give the QB an outlet who was sure-handed and then took their QB. The motive and the plan was pretty well thought-out, but Zay had a torn labrum last year and then in the tripping incident at the Jets couldn't recover so he looked worse because of an injury no one knew about until after the season. Add in two retirements on the Offensive line they did not anticipate and a WR who just quit on the team and yazda - it's the mess that it is now. When the first Draft occurred they had both Wood and Incognito under contract for a couple more years and Drafted Dawkins and Clay was under contract so they had what they thought was their pass-catching TE. Yes, they had this last Off-season to address the Offense, but we know now that there was a commitment to clean up the Cap so they never planned on spending a lot of money in FA and when they did, they again decided to build on Defense so that they could try to keep the games close and hope the Offense could do something, just enough to win. But, they also knew once Wood and Richie left, it was going to be ugly.

 

Until next year, I reserve judgment on Daboll and believe McBeane will get players and talent to surround Allen. If they don't then next year will be McD's last along with Daboll. But, I think Beane gets a chance to pick one more HC before Pegula fires him IF it ever comes to that. 

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

What's odd to me is that there are many folks here who contend that it's impossible to evaluate Josh Allen this season given the poor talent he has around him - yet have no problem criticizing Daboll.  If it's true for Allen, it's true for Daboll...

 

I have no idea if he's a good OC or not.

 

100% correct. Both evaluations are almost impossible. 

[Wayne Arnold]

The guy was willing to leave quite possibly the greatest college team of all-time to come help out his home town team. Which happens to be a train wreck at no fault of his own.

 

I think we owe him at least a little bit of patience, no?

[Mr. WEO]

6 hours ago, MJS said:

 

I don't think he really has qualifications, to be honest. He sucked as a coordinator with the Browns and then eventually took a lesser role with New England. Then he coordinated in Alabama for a year. The qualification shelf is pretty bare.

 

I get it that the offensive talent is a joke, but there really isn't any reason to believe that Daboll is any good.

 

My 2 cents.

 

That means the other certain thing is that the Bills will always have a terrible offense?

 

When the offense doesn't suck, people won't hate the coordinator or the players. It's quite simple. When the results are bad, hate follows.

 

This is the correct take on Daboll.

[C.Biscuit97]

Hot take, he might not be a good OC.  https://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/DaboBr0.htm

 

I get his talent sucks but how much more talent does SF have than us right now?  They are 15th in the nfl. 

 

Edited October 25, 2018 by C.Biscuit97

[Matt_In_NH]

I like the sales job on the offense, lots of formation, player groups, try to find mismatches.  The results are historically bad though.  

[Soda Popinski]

I don't know what kind of playbook masks no wrs/no qb/no ol

[dave mcbride]

7 hours ago, PetermanThrew5Picks said:

What offense will maximize each players talents? That's his job.

He has no players. Seriously. 

 

Oftentimes, the Bills have had bad coordinators and it's not difficult to see. This time it's really impossible to judge. He is working with the worst receiving corps in the league by a mile, a terrible line, Derek Freaking Anderson, and an unimpressive cast of RBs given McCoy's injuries.

15 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Hot take, he might not be a good OC.  https://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/DaboBr0.htm

 

I get his talent sucks but how much more talent does SF have than us right now?  They are 15th in the nfl. 

 

SF has way better talent. I can't believe I'm saying this, but CJ Beathard is a superstar compared to the mooks we have playing qb now.

1 hour ago, Cripple Creek said:

What did undermanned NCAA schools do? The wing T spread seems like a good fit.

Um ... that doesn't work in the NFL. The Bills don't even have the personnel to run it well anyway.

[BillsFan130]

8 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

Which is?

Which is the job of the offensive coordinator who makes millions of dollars a year to figure out. Not posters on two bills drive

[Like A Mofo]

7 hours ago, KD in CA said:

The only certain things in life are death, taxes and TSW hating whoever holds the job of Bills OC.

 

 

 

Truer words have never been spoken here!

[Cripple Creek]

3 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

 

Um ... that doesn't work in the NFL. The Bills don't even have the personnel to run it well anyway.

Two things...

 

Because it's never been tried to the fullest. 

 

What scheme do the Bills have the personnel to run?

 

actually three things...

 

How much worse could it be? They have been shut out. They have twice scored 3 points offensively. They have twice scored 13 points.

[dave mcbride]

1 minute ago, Cripple Creek said:

Two things...

 

Because it's never been tried to the fullest. 

 

What scheme do the Bills have the personnel to run?

 

actually three things...

 

How much worse could it be? They have been shut out. They have twice scored 3 points offensively. They have twice scored 13 points.

They don't have the personnel to run any scheme well because the talent across the board is so terrible (and even more so if McCoy is traded, which i think is more likely than not).

[Cripple Creek]

2 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

They don't have the personnel to run any scheme well because the talent across the board is so terrible (and even more so if McCoy is traded, which i think is more likely than not).

So then why not toss the playbook. Take away Allen's choices (when he's back) and let him make one read and throw.

 

32 out of 32 cannot get worse.

[Success]

Honestly, he has shown flashes of being good.  When we haven’t been trailing or overwhelmed - the Vikings game - he has really mixed it up nicely.

 

He needs more to work with, obviously.  Any OC would have a hard time looking competent with what we have right now.

[cgg716]

Chan Gailey got all kinds of points from the same level of talent in a less wide open league 

[John from Riverside]

1 hour ago, billsfan11 said:

Which is the job of the offensive coordinator who makes millions of dollars a year to figure out. Not posters on two bills drive

I see....so ppl that dont have a fuking clue of what they are talking about themselves are trying to say that Deboll should do his job.

 

Got it.....carry on

3 hours ago, Cripple Creek said:

What did undermanned NCAA schools do? The wing T spread seems like a good fit.

The whole idea was to bring in college concepts to run a more modern offense.....

 

You still have to have the horses to do it

[KD in CA]

9 hours ago, MJS said:

 

When the offense doesn't suck, people won't hate the coordinator or the players. It's quite simple. When the results are bad, hate follows.

 

I can almost hear the reactionaries screaming "Fire Marchibroda!!"

 

 

[dave mcbride]

46 minutes ago, cgg716 said:

Chan Gailey got all kinds of points from the same level of talent in a less wide open league 

No, the Bills' talent under Gailey was actually far, far superior to what we have now. I think many people simply don't realize the historic badness of the Bills' offensive talent right now. It's unprecedented.

[K-9]

2 hours ago, mattynh said:

I like the sales job on the offense, lots of formation, player groups, try to find mismatches.  The results are historically bad though.  

Great point. I’ve noticed this about Daboll, too. It just sucks when you don’t have players talented enough to win matchup battles with any kind of regularity. 

[BillsFan130]

22 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

I see....so ppl that dont have a fuking clue of what they are talking about themselves are trying to say that Deboll should do his job.

 

Got it.....carry on

The whole idea was to bring in college concepts to run a more modern offense.....

 

You still have to have the horses to do it

Fans are not allowed to criticize/question the man in charge of one of the worst offences in the past 50 years?

 

We are just supposed to assume he’s doing his job correctly because we can’t come up with a professional solution? 

 

Who are we we to criticize right. Daboll must be doing his job just fine cause posters at two bills drive who have completely different occupations and don’t work 80 hours a week on the offence can’t find the solution for him.

Edited October 25, 2018 by billsfan11

[John from Riverside]

14 minutes ago, billsfan11 said:

Fans are not allowed to criticize/question the man in charge of one of the worst offences in the past 50 years?

 

We are just supposed to assume he’s doing his job correctly because we can’t come up with a professional solution? 

 

Who are we we to criticize right. Daboll must be doing his job just fine cause posters at two bills drive who have completely different occupations and don’t work 80 hours a week on the offence can’t find the solution for him.

How would you even know if he is doing his job?

 

This is the thing that gets me about "fans" if someone wants to bring a take on here like they actually know what they are watching I am all ears and worthy of discussion.....the fan that just says "he sucks because it isnt working" is just white  noise to me.

 

There are REASONS why it is not working.

 

But hey....carry on

[Nihilarian]

10 hours ago, MJS said:

 

I don't think he really has qualifications, to be honest. He sucked as a coordinator with the Browns and then eventually took a lesser role with New England. Then he coordinated in Alabama for a year. The qualification shelf is pretty bare.

 

I get it that the offensive talent is a joke, but there really isn't any reason to believe that Daboll is any good.

 

My 2 cents.

 

That means the other certain thing is that the Bills will always have a terrible offense?

 

When the offense doesn't suck, people won't hate the coordinator or the players. It's quite simple. When the results are bad, hate follows.

I agree.

 

Yes, the talent is somewhat lacking with the offense as the only real elite player is RB LeSean McCoy. Now, stating that, why hasn't he been used more effectively this season? The team got behind in points the first few games and the rushing attack went right out the window. Still, this doesn't explain why McCoy wasn't used in the passing scheme more often as he is probably the best receiver on the team too. 

 

Daboll has been mostly attempting to run a pass first offense with a rookie QB who has great difficulty reading defenses. Simply moronic! 

 

Sorry, but Brian Daboll stinks! Great coaches get the best out of their players...you know, kinda like McD has done with the defense. He should have simplified the offense to mostly run plays and screens, short outs, misdirection plays. For most of the season Daboll has been calling plays like he has an experienced veteran QB behind center.

 

The offense is out of control with penalties and stupid drive killing penalties at that. How is it that a pro player doesn't know where to line up? I can see an incidental penalty like an occasional hold or false start. But some of these are ridiculous and make it impossible for any QB to do his job much less a rookie QB.  

 

54 penalties for 428 is downright ludicrous. 

[ColoradoBills]

OBD is pretty tight lipped as to what goes on behind closed doors.

None of us really know what Beane, McDermott and Daboll true opinions are of the offensive talent.

 

I believe that there will be a lot of new starters on offense next year.

Whether Daboll deserves to be in Buffalo leading them...........I just don't know.

 

Personally, if I had to predict Daboll's future.......he will be the OC next year.

[BillsFan130]

2 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

How would you even know if he is doing his job?

 

This is the thing that gets me about "fans" if someone wants to bring a take on here like they actually know what they are watching I am all ears and worthy of discussion.....the fan that just says "he sucks because it isnt working" is just white  noise to me.

 

There are REASONS why it is not working.

 

But hey....carry on

Well he is the leader of the 32nd ranked offence in the NFL, which is also historically bad. We can start with that.. There are many things I don’t like about Daboll. Like his predictable play calling, obsession with go routes, etc.

 

I just don’t think it’s necessary to call out posters when they have an opinion on something they don’t like. You’ve done it to me multiple times and I find it very obnoxious.

 

We are FANS here that have different occupations to these coaches/players that make millions of dollars. We should be allowed to comment on something without getting called out by another poster asking for a detailed explanation of the Xs and Os on how to fix the problem.

 

 I don’t think anyone on this board is putting in their resume to become the offensive coordinator. So maybe just relax a little bit and let’s not take it so serious eh?

[John from Riverside]

4 minutes ago, billsfan11 said:

Well he is the leader of the 32nd ranked offence in the NFL, which is also historically bad. We can start with that.. There are many things I don’t like about Daboll. Like his predictable play calling, obsession with go routes, etc.

 

I just don’t think it’s necessary to call out posters when they have an opinion on something they don’t like. You’ve done it to me multiple times and I find it very obnoxious.

 

We are FANS here that have different occupations to these coaches/players that make millions of dollars. We should be allowed to comment on something without getting called out by another poster asking for a detailed explanation of the Xs and Os on how to fix the problem.

 

 I don’t think anyone on this board is putting in their resume to become the offensive coordinator. So maybe just relax a little bit and let’s not take it so serious eh?

I think you cannot evaluate him when this offense is almost completely devoid of talent.......

 

I know its hard....but fans should look a little deeper at what is actually happening here.

[GunnerBill]

44 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

No, the Bills' talent under Gailey was actually far, far superior to what we have now. I think many people simply don't realize the historic badness of the Bills' offensive talent right now. It's unprecedented.

 

Agreed. LeSean McCoy and probably Charles Clay are the only offensive starters on this team that would start on that team.