I actually like Daboll!

[BillsFan130]

1 minute ago, John from Riverside said:

I think you cannot evaluate him when this offense is almost completely devoid of talent.......

 

I know its hard....but fans should look a little deeper at what is actually happening here.

The talent on the offence blows. No disagreement there.

 

He is definitely not the whole problem, but I do believe he is a part of the problem.

 

I was literally guessing what plays he was going to run last week before the snap and I got them right at about a 75/80 percent clip. That’s how predictable he is. If I can figure it out, defensive coordinators and players can surely figure it out.

[ColoradoBills]

7 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

I agree.

 

Yes, the talent is somewhat lacking with the offense as the only real elite player is RB LeSean McCoy. Now, stating that, why hasn't he been used more effectively this season? The team got behind in points the first few games and the rushing attack went right out the window. Still, this doesn't explain why McCoy wasn't used in the passing scheme more often as he is probably the best receiver on the team too. 

 

Daboll has been mostly attempting to run a pass first offense with a rookie QB who has great difficulty reading defenses. Simply moronic! 

 

Sorry, but Brian Daboll stinks! Great coaches get the best out of their players...you know, kinda like McD has done with the defense. He should have simplified the offense to mostly run plays and screens, short outs, misdirection plays. For most of the season Daboll has been calling plays like he has an experienced veteran QB behind center.

 

The offense is out of control with penalties and stupid drive killing penalties at that. How is it that a pro player doesn't know where to line up? I can see an incidental penalty like an occasional hold or false start. But some of these are ridiculous and make it impossible for any QB to do his job much less a rookie QB.  

 

54 penalties for 428 is downright ludicrous. 

 

The Buffalo Bills are ranked 27th in Pass play %.  They rank 29th in the last 3 games.

Compared to the league Bills don't look like a pass first offense to me.

 

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/passing-play-pct

 

                                  2018   Last 3   Last 2  Home   Away    2017

1	NY Giants	68.46%	70.56%	67.74%	70.27%	67.08%	61.97%
2	Green Bay	68.19%	66.82%	70.00%	65.20%	73.94%	61.36%
3	Minnesota	67.73%	59.69%	63.08%	66.02%	69.06%	54.07%
4	Pittsburgh	67.33%	66.85%	68.66%	72.25%	62.86%	59.70%
5	Indianapolis	66.67%	60.87%	38.33%	65.45%	67.68%	54.63%
6	Cincinnati	66.03%	65.88%	64.81%	63.98%	67.67%	59.33%
7	Atlanta	64.88%	68.88%	67.74%	61.54%	72.59%	56.14%
8	Jacksonville	64.71%	71.21%	67.65%	62.92%	67.19%	50.51%
9	Tampa Bay	64.25%	66.82%	63.64%	66.98%	61.08%	62.32%
10	Oakland	63.61%	68.72%	66.07%	66.23%	61.92%	61.13%
11	Philadelphia	62.50%	61.70%	63.08%	60.54%	64.84%	55.78%
12	Baltimore	62.04%	62.27%	64.06%	59.13%	63.99%	56.36%
13	Arizona	61.96%	62.35%	68.18%	62.90%	60.54%	61.32%
14	Denver	61.40%	65.24%	43.64%	61.18%	61.70%	57.49%
15	Detroit	60.58%	50.60%	39.66%	60.82%	60.33%	62.96%
16	Cleveland	60.04%	65.71%	62.90%	60.91%	58.67%	61.90%
17	Kansas City	58.73%	60.42%	58.57%	57.97%	59.40%	59.44%
18	Carolina	58.24%	64.13%	70.69%	46.39%	70.88%	52.96%
19	New Orleans	58.19%	48.50%	44.29%	62.84%	54.21%	56.37%
20	Miami	57.84%	61.90%	64.81%	58.85%	56.44%	63.82%
21	San Francisco	57.37%	57.07%	58.62%	59.05%	55.88%	61.44%
22	Chicago	56.68%	56.28%	67.53%	58.08%	55.28%	54.82%
23	Houston	56.54%	52.82%	40.32%	62.05%	52.69%	56.38%
24	LA Chargers	56.48%	48.45%	63.64%	60.00%	53.11%	58.92%
25	New England	56.18%	57.28%	57.81%	54.33%	59.30%	59.78%
26	NY Jets	54.61%	50.51%	65.22%	55.17%	53.76%	56.61%
27	Buffalo	54.44%	48.02%	60.00%	47.58%	57.34%	52.12%
28	Washington	54.15%	57.84%	44.83%	53.39%	55.56%	59.16%
29	Dallas	54.14%	51.81%	63.93%	45.45%	61.02%	52.24%
30	Tennessee	53.28%	55.00%	50.75%	57.58%	50.41%	55.41%
31	LA Rams	51.56%	46.94%	42.62%	54.64%	49.22%	55.83%
32	Seattle	50.55%	42.13%	39.34%	41.80%	54.96%	59.38%

[John from Riverside]

1 minute ago, billsfan11 said:

The talent on the offnce blowes. No disagreement there.

 

He is definitely not the whole problem, but I do believe he is a part of the problem.

 

I was literally guessing what plays he was going to run last week before the snap and I got them right at about a 75/80 percent clip. That’s how predictable he is. If I can figure it out, defensive coordinators and players can surely figure it out.

What is there to figure out.....THEY CANNOT EVEN EXECUTE BLOCKS DOWNFIELD FOR SCREENS

 

This is what I dont understand about fans like you.....you recognize that we dont have the horses....you want to win the race anyway

[BillsFan130]

1 minute ago, John from Riverside said:

What is there to figure out.....THEY CANNOT EVEN EXECUTE BLOCKS DOWNFIELD FOR SCREENS

 

This is what I dont understand about fans like you.....you recognize that we dont have the horses....you want to win the race anyway

Ok, John.

 

Have a good day

[John from Riverside]

Just now, billsfan11 said:

Ok, John.

 

Have a good day

You as well

 

Look.....just wait until we see what they are gonna do on offense before passing a determination.....being in a losing season sucks I dont like it either

[BmarvB]

I would think he would be able to get the most out of what little talent he has to work wit. Granted that's asking a lot with this group, but still......
Let's hope Beane does all the right things in the off season to upgrade the offense

[Rebel101]

11 hours ago, Estelle Getty said:

The man is atleast attempting to run a real NFL offense. Very rarely do you see the run, run, pass combo we have come so accustom to over the last few years. Gone are the days of draw up the middle out of the shotgun for 1 yard over and over. 

 

The only issue is he is trying to run a modern day NFL offense with Junior College talent.  I think his stubbornness will pay off in the long run by helping to weed out the players who can’t hack it in a real offense. Much like we saw a defensive overhaul this year I would expect the same on offense next year.  

 

I have confidence that McBeane have the ability to figure it out, as they did on defense.  As far as McDermott, let’s not forget he got us to the playoffs with a joke of a roster last year.  This year any educated fan could see we were not built to win although there was always the outside chance much like last year.     

Do you actually watch the games? Because run run pass is all we do. I stopped reading once you said those days are gone

[MikeSpeed]

The nice thing about Daboll right now, we do not have to worry about another team poaching him to be their head coach.

[TheBrownBear]

I don't know how anyone could draw much of a conclusion on Daboll, good or bad, based on the talent level on the offensive side of the ball.  We have like one good playmaker (who happens to be a 30yr old RB) and one serviceable offensive lineman and that's it.  We have the worst group of quarterbacks in the league.  Our best receiver would be a #3 on most teams and after him I'm not sure if we have another receiver who would be active on Sundays for 75% of the teams in the league.  If there ever was someone set up to fail, it's Daboll. 

[BillsInWilmingtonNC]

We are not trying to install an offense that is best for RIGHT now....  We want to teach Allen the offense for who we plan on becoming next year and the year after. You don't spend a year teaching your rookie QB a scheme that you will toss out next year when you get talent on the offensive side of the ball.  As painful as it is now, everything needs to be done to help Allen learn.

[Nihilarian]

6 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

The Buffalo Bills are ranked 27th in Pass play %.  They rank 29th in the last 3 games.

Compared to the league Bills don't look like a pass first offense to me.

 

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/passing-play-pct

 

                                  2018   Last 3   Last 2  Home   Away    2017

1	NY Giants	68.46%	70.56%	67.74%	70.27%	67.08%	61.97%
2	Green Bay	68.19%	66.82%	70.00%	65.20%	73.94%	61.36%
3	Minnesota	67.73%	59.69%	63.08%	66.02%	69.06%	54.07%
4	Pittsburgh	67.33%	66.85%	68.66%	72.25%	62.86%	59.70%
5	Indianapolis	66.67%	60.87%	38.33%	65.45%	67.68%	54.63%
6	Cincinnati	66.03%	65.88%	64.81%	63.98%	67.67%	59.33%
7	Atlanta	64.88%	68.88%	67.74%	61.54%	72.59%	56.14%
8	Jacksonville	64.71%	71.21%	67.65%	62.92%	67.19%	50.51%
9	Tampa Bay	64.25%	66.82%	63.64%	66.98%	61.08%	62.32%
10	Oakland	63.61%	68.72%	66.07%	66.23%	61.92%	61.13%
11	Philadelphia	62.50%	61.70%	63.08%	60.54%	64.84%	55.78%
12	Baltimore	62.04%	62.27%	64.06%	59.13%	63.99%	56.36%
13	Arizona	61.96%	62.35%	68.18%	62.90%	60.54%	61.32%
14	Denver	61.40%	65.24%	43.64%	61.18%	61.70%	57.49%
15	Detroit	60.58%	50.60%	39.66%	60.82%	60.33%	62.96%
16	Cleveland	60.04%	65.71%	62.90%	60.91%	58.67%	61.90%
17	Kansas City	58.73%	60.42%	58.57%	57.97%	59.40%	59.44%
18	Carolina	58.24%	64.13%	70.69%	46.39%	70.88%	52.96%
19	New Orleans	58.19%	48.50%	44.29%	62.84%	54.21%	56.37%
20	Miami	57.84%	61.90%	64.81%	58.85%	56.44%	63.82%
21	San Francisco	57.37%	57.07%	58.62%	59.05%	55.88%	61.44%
22	Chicago	56.68%	56.28%	67.53%	58.08%	55.28%	54.82%
23	Houston	56.54%	52.82%	40.32%	62.05%	52.69%	56.38%
24	LA Chargers	56.48%	48.45%	63.64%	60.00%	53.11%	58.92%
25	New England	56.18%	57.28%	57.81%	54.33%	59.30%	59.78%
26	NY Jets	54.61%	50.51%	65.22%	55.17%	53.76%	56.61%
27	Buffalo	54.44%	48.02%	60.00%	47.58%	57.34%	52.12%
28	Washington	54.15%	57.84%	44.83%	53.39%	55.56%	59.16%
29	Dallas	54.14%	51.81%	63.93%	45.45%	61.02%	52.24%
30	Tennessee	53.28%	55.00%	50.75%	57.58%	50.41%	55.41%
31	LA Rams	51.56%	46.94%	42.62%	54.64%	49.22%	55.83%
32	Seattle	50.55%	42.13%	39.34%	41.80%	54.96%	59.38%

Lies, damned lies and statistics. Look at the pass vs the run 201 pass attempts vs 190 rush attempts.

 

Go back and re-watch the games. (1) Ravens 22 rushes vs 33 passes. (2) Chargers 22 rushes vs 33 passes.(4) Packers 16 rushes vs 33 passes.(5) Houston 27 rushes vs 29 passes. (6) Indy 22 rushes vs 31 passes. 

 

Now, the only game in which the OC called for more run plays was against (3) Minnesota which was 38 rushes vs 22 passes. This is what Daboll should have been doing each and every week and not just when the team got the lead. Pounding the ball will not only help that rookie QB do his job it also helps the defense. Look at what happened against Indy when they ran the ball on Buffalo. It basically negated that Buffalo Bills 3rd best sacking team in the League. 

 

Another thing is McCoy only has 13 receptions so far and he was the Bills leading receiver last year with 59 receptions. Daboll has been calling for more downfield passes. 

[Scott7975]

I am undecided. On one hand the guy hasn’t had any success in the NFL as an OC. On the other hand it might not be fair to judge him yet with all the grocery baggers on offense. 

[LSHMEAB]

I didn't like Daboll coming in and I didn't like drafting Allen and now because the talent is so decimated offensively, neither can be judged properly.

 

So not only do we get to suck for the immediate future, they'll be around until they can properly be assessed. 

 

As someone who doesn't like either's track record, it's the worst possible scenario. I'd like to find out as soon as possible if we have the right people in charge so we can move on if need be.

[416BillsFan]

4 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Hot take, he might not be a good OC.  https://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/DaboBr0.htm

 

I get his talent sucks but how much more talent does SF have than us right now?  They are 15th in the nfl. 

 

They have more talent on offense at every position except for RB.

[NoHuddleKelly12]

5 hours ago, Cripple Creek said:

What did undermanned NCAA schools do? The wing T spread seems like a good fit.

Triple option ala Marshall or the latest iteration with Paul Johnson here locally Ga Tech come to mind ?

[cgg716]

2 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

No, the Bills' talent under Gailey was actually far, far superior to what we have now. I think many people simply don't realize the historic badness of the Bills' offensive talent right now. It's unprecedented.

Every single member of that offense washed out of the NFL, never made even a slight impact anywhere else, except for Fitz, once again under Gailey. Gailey implemented a modern offense capable of producing despite severely deciefint talent. You don’t think it was deficient because Gailey made it look way better than it had any right to be, even under rules that weren’t as soft as now. Daboll can’t do this 

[C.Biscuit97]

2 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

No, the Bills' talent under Gailey was actually far, far superior to what we have now. I think many people simply don't realize the historic badness of the Bills' offensive talent right now. It's unprecedented.

I think you are overrating the talent of those Gailey’s teams. SJ was a 7th round, Jones and Nelson weren’t drafted, Chandler bounced around the nfl, Fitz was a journeyman 7th rounder, and we all know about F Jax.  Benjamin was a 1st rounder, Zay is a first rounder, McCoy is one if the best rbs, Clay is a good TE, and Allen was a top 10 pick.

 

i think our current offensive evaluation sucks.  But I also think coaches could get more out of the talent.  Look back at the Jauron teams and their rosters.  It is amazing they got 7 wins.  Gailey maximized his talent.  So while our talent isn’t good, the coaches aren’t maximizing it either.

1 hour ago, Scott7975 said:

I am undecided. On one hand the guy hasn’t had any success in the NFL as an OC. On the other hand it might not be fair to judge him yet with all the grocery baggers on offense. 

He played a huge part in the talent failure on offense I would assume. 

1 hour ago, Scott7975 said:

I am undecided. On one hand the guy hasn’t had any success in the NFL as an OC. On the other hand it might not be fair to judge him yet with all the grocery baggers on offense. 

Maybe but I don’t think it’s nearly as huge as you think to make CJ beathard look so much better as a qb.  I would argue that Shanahan is just a much better coach than Daboll.  

[MJS]

6 hours ago, T master said:

 

!st yr OC with this team, 1st yr new scheme, loss of 3 veteran starting offensive linemen one of which was a pro bowler, well below average WR corp, Rookie QB after a 2nd round 2nd yr QB with less than NFL potential starts the yr, then insert almost retired average at best QB with a career 20-27 win percentage after rookie gets hurt to carry the team .

 

Sounds logical to me why you would think this OC sucks yah he has plenty to work with & there was no uphill battle here at all so WTF Dabol get off your A** & get this team on the winning side of things !!  

 

I didn't say he sucks. The offense sucks and there is a lot to overcome, obviously, but that doesn't mean that Daboll is good or that he is the right one going forward. There's no reason to believe that.

[PolishPrince]

12 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

What offense should he run to improve the talent of his players?

Designing more than 1 pass play to McCoy would be a start.

Also not throwing only one screen all game... and it be to ANDRE HOLMES of all players on our roster.

[dave mcbride]

14 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I think you are overrating the talent of those Gailey’s teams. SJ was a 7th round, Jones and Nelson weren’t drafted, Chandler bounced around the nfl, Fitz was a journeyman 7th rounder, and we all know about F Jax.  Benjamin was a 1st rounder, Zay is a first rounder, McCoy is one if the best rbs, Clay is a good TE, and Allen was a top 10 pick.

 

i think our current offensive evaluation sucks.  But I also think coaches could get more out of the talent.  Look back at the Jauron teams and their rosters.  It is amazing they got 7 wins.  Gailey maximized his talent.  So while our talent isn’t good, the coaches aren’t maximizing it either.

He played a huge part in the talent failure on offense I would assume. 

Maybe but I don’t think it’s nearly as huge as you think to make CJ beathard look so much better as a qb.  I would argue that Shanahan is just a much better coach than Daboll.  

You're fixating on draft position, which isn't relevant. Stevie Johnson was way better than a seventh rounder, and Fred Jackson was a bona fide good player.  Fitz was and is better than what we have. 

[blacklabel]

Honestly, if I was Brian Daboll... I would go and see if I could get my hands on some Chan Gailey playbooks and schemes. That's right, good ol' Chan. Not a great head coach, but a pretty solid offensive coordinator. Don't recall what year it was, but when he was here with his island of misfit toys (Fitz, Stevie, Freddy, etc.) he really did a lot with a little. Of that receiving group, only Stevie Johnson had the ability to run his routes and get open on a routine basis, everyone else was open by scheme. Daboll has shown the ability to do that but yeah, why not take a look at what Chan was able to do with a not-so-talented group like they currently have.

[dave mcbride]

26 minutes ago, cgg716 said:

Every single member of that offense washed out of the NFL, never made even a slight impact anywhere else, except for Fitz, once again under Gailey. Gailey implemented a modern offense capable of producing despite severely deciefint talent. You don’t think it was deficient because Gailey made it look way better than it had any right to be, even under rules that weren’t as soft as now. Daboll can’t do this 

This just isn't true. Stevie Johnson washed out because of *injury* and injury alone. Even still, he had 80 catches over his final two seasons, and he missed significant time in both of them. Spiller was actually an elite player for a couple of seasons before dings added up and took away his one saving asset (quickness/blazing speed). Jackson was flat out good, to the point where he was leading the league in rushing 11 weeks into the season in 2011 (he broke his leg). The o-line wasn't great, but it was better than what it is now. And the QB, for all of his manifold flaws, was a LOT better than what we currently have. 

Edited October 25, 2018 by dave mcbride

[C.Biscuit97]

3 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

You're fixating on draft position, which isn't relevant. Stevie Johnson was way better than a seventh rounder, and Fred Jackson was a bona fide good player.  Fitz was and is better than what we have. 

What did any of those guys do after Buffalo?  Also, better coaches are better at finding talent.  Daboll got to hand pick a qb in the top 10.  I’m betting he had a major say on offensive personnel.  He deserves blame for that too.  

 

Gailey maximized journeymen type players.  Honest question:  would our offense be better with Chan or Daboll? To me, it’s no brainer.  And that said, our offensive talent sucks. 

[Scott7975]

1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

What did any of those guys do after Buffalo?  Also, better coaches are better at finding talent.  Daboll got to hand pick a qb in the top 10.  I’m betting he had a major say on offensive personnel.  He deserves blame for that too.  

 

Gailey maximized journeymen type players.  Honest question:  would our offense be better with Chan or Daboll? To me, it’s no brainer.  And that said, our offensive talent sucks. 

I loved Chans offense.

[C.Biscuit97]

3 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

This just isn't true. Stevie Johnson washed out because of *injury* and injury alone. Even still, he had 80 catches over his final two seasons, and he missed significant time in both of them. Spiller was actually an elite player for a couple of seasons before dings added up and took away his one saving asset (quickness/blazing speed). Jackson was flat out good. The o-line wasn't great, but it was better than what it is now. And the QB, for all of his manifold flaws, was a LOT better than what we currently have. 

Good point about Spiller.  Chan was the only coach who maximized him.

 

Youre a good poster Dave.  It’s ok to admit Gailey was a good OC. ?

1 minute ago, Scott7975 said:

I loved Chans offense.

He should have been an OC. It also was really stupid he never drafted a qb to develop under Fitz. It could have been a Mahomes type situation.

[dave mcbride]

6 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

What did any of those guys do after Buffalo?  Also, better coaches are better at finding talent.  Daboll got to hand pick a qb in the top 10.  I’m betting he had a major say on offensive personnel.  He deserves blame for that too.  

 

Gailey maximized journeymen type players.  Honest question:  would our offense be better with Chan or Daboll? To me, it’s no brainer.  And that said, our offensive talent sucks. 

Fred spent his entire career here except for the one season in Seattle when he was like 52 years old!! Come on, C. Biscuit. Johnson was doing fine in SF but was hurt a lot in 2014. He was also in decline, which he wasn't from 2010-2012. He got banged up a lot after 2012. 

 

Saying players didn't perform well after leaving one team where they performed well is a red herring. Does that make Adrian Peterson and LaDanian Tomlinson lesser talents? All players have windows, and they tend to be in their younger years. There are exceptions, but they're few and far between.

3 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Good point about Spiller.  Chan was the only coach who maximized him.

 

Youre a good poster Dave.  It’s ok to admit Gailey was a good OC. ?

He should have been an OC. It also was really stupid he never drafted a qb to develop under Fitz. It could have been a Mahomes type situation.

I like Gailey as OC - I never said I didn't! All I'm saying is that this unit is straight up garbage (starting with the QB position) and worse than what Chan had. At least Chan had a vet QB with mobility who could run a sophisticated offense. That counts for a TON. 

Edited October 25, 2018 by dave mcbride

[cgg716]

23 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

This just isn't true. Stevie Johnson washed out because of *injury* and injury alone. Even still, he had 80 catches over his final two seasons, and he missed significant time in both of them. Spiller was actually an elite player for a couple of seasons before dings added up and took away his one saving asset (quickness/blazing speed). Jackson was flat out good, to the point where he was leading the league in rushing 11 weeks into the season in 2011 (he broke his leg). The o-line wasn't great, but it was better than what it is now. And the QB, for all of his manifold flaws, was a LOT better than what we currently have. 

Two 40 catch years is impact? And CJ wasn’t a all the time injuried Guy, he just wasn’t good, even under Sean Payton. Freddy was the best player we had, but was still lacking speed in an increasingly faster league. Gailey made them all way better than they were. Hence the zero impact anywhere else. Daboll can’t do this, even though this team might have better talent. Especially when Allen is in

[C.Biscuit97]

26 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Fred spent his entire career here except for the one season in Seattle when he was like 52 years old!! Come on, C. Biscuit. Johnson was doing fine in SF but was hurt a lot in 2014. He was also in decline, which he wasn't from 2010-2012. He got banged up a lot after 2012. 

 

Saying players didn't perform well after leaving one team where they performed well is a red herring. Does that make Adrian Peterson and LaDanian Tomlinson lesser talents? All players have windows, and they tend to be in their younger years. There are exceptions, but they're few and far between.

I like Gailey as OC - I never said I didn't! All I'm saying is that this unit is straight up garbage (starting with the QB position) and worse than what Chan had. At least Chan had a vet QB with mobility who could run a sophisticated offense. That counts for a TON. 

Daboll or Gailey?  Who does better with this offense?  I think there is not one thing special Daboll does.  Good coaches find a way to maximize their talent.  Daboll is a replacement level OC who probably had a huge say in picking our qbs.  It’s kinda scary.

 

also, what does it say about this season that we’re debating Chan vs. Daboll? ?

[Nihilarian]

20 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

I like Gailey as OC - I never said I didn't! All I'm saying is that this unit is straight up garbage (starting with the QB position) and worse than what Chan had. At least Chan had a vet QB with mobility who could run a sophisticated offense. That counts for a TON. 

Gailey had some time as OC with the NY Jets with Fitz as his QB and they went 10-6 in 2015 in HC Todd Bowles first year. Fitz threw for almost 4k yards with 31 TDs, 15 INTs.

 

What happened the next year is what happens with Fitz and Gailey as teams figure out how to beat Gailey's smoke and mirror offense. And Fitz is well, Fitz as he tends to get hot and cold. 2016 saw him throw for 2700 yards with 12 TDs, 17 INTs and go 3-8. The Jets crashed to 5-11. 

[C.Biscuit97]

6 minutes ago, cgg716 said:

Two 40 catch years is impact? And CJ wasn’t a all the time injuried Guy, he just wasn’t good, even under Sean Payton. Freddy was the best player we had, but was still lacking speed in an increasingly faster league. Gailey made them all way better than they were. Hence the zero impact anywhere else. Daboll can’t do this, even though this team might have better talent. Especially when Allen is in

The Spiller thing killed me.  For a year and a half, he was one of the most explosive players in the nfl.  I was shocked he did nothing in NO.  Also, Reid couldn’t do anything with him.  

 

Chan might be the best offensive coach we have had since the SB years.

[dave mcbride]

14 minutes ago, cgg716 said:

Two 40 catch years is impact? And CJ wasn’t a all the time injuried Guy, he just wasn’t good, even under Sean Payton. Freddy was the best player we had, but was still lacking speed in an increasingly faster league. Gailey made them all way better than they were. Hence the zero impact anywhere else. Daboll can’t do this, even though this team might have better talent. Especially when Allen is in

CJ Spiller's 2012 season is probably the best season by a Bills offensive player since Eric Moulds in 1998. This will sound strong, but I actually don't even think it's all that debatable. He averaged 6.0 ypc and over 10 yards per reception!

7 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

The Spiller thing killed me.  For a year and a half, he was one of the most explosive players in the nfl.  I was shocked he did nothing in NO.  Also, Reid couldn’t do anything with him.  

 

Chan might be the best offensive coach we have had since the SB years.

Spiller was just not the same player. He had a truly unique speed/quickness combo that had clearly eroded by 2014. He got banged up a LOT. Nothing really major, but lots of small tears and sprains. Those guys tend to have short shelf lives, but in their elite years, they're game breakers.

8 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Daboll or Gailey?  Who does better with this offense?  I think there is not one thing special Daboll does.  Good coaches find a way to maximize their talent.  Daboll is a replacement level OC who probably had a huge say in picking our qbs.  It’s kinda scary.

 

also, what does it say about this season that we’re debating Chan vs. Daboll? ?

I'm not disputing that Gailey was good, but I also think it's unfair to judge Daboll given the talent here. And I gotta say, anyone who thinks that the talent this year even remotely resembles the 2011-12 teams is smoking something. They weren't elite talent teams, but my god. The one genuinely good player on this team (McCoy) has been banged up all season and may well be traded soon. 

 

One other point about guys who did well elsewhere and declined afterward: Chris Ivory. He was elite for a little while, and now he's just decent (not bad, mind you). It's the curse of the 30-year old RB (and Ivory is actually 30 with a lot miles). Guys wear down at the RB position fast. 

9 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

The Spiller thing killed me.  For a year and a half, he was one of the most explosive players in the nfl.  I was shocked he did nothing in NO.  Also, Reid couldn’t do anything with him.  

 

Chan might be the best offensive coach we have had since the SB years.

 

PS - Scroll down. https://sportsinjurypredictor.com/player/cj-spiller/3363

Edited October 25, 2018 by dave mcbride

[The Process]

9 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

There is no way to fairly evaluate Daboll as OC this season. There are things you can look at and assess in terms of scheme but overall he signed up for a train wreck and should be given at least 2 years and some talent to work before judging him.

Our players make the coaches look bad....the coaches make the players look bad....what came first the chicken or the egg?

[Nihilarian]

15 hours ago, blacklabel said:

Honestly, if I was Brian Daboll... I would go and see if I could get my hands on some Chan Gailey playbooks and schemes. That's right, good ol' Chan. Not a great head coach, but a pretty solid offensive coordinator. Don't recall what year it was, but when he was here with his island of misfit toys (Fitz, Stevie, Freddy, etc.) he really did a lot with a little. Of that receiving group, only Stevie Johnson had the ability to run his routes and get open on a routine basis, everyone else was open by scheme. Daboll has shown the ability to do that but yeah, why not take a look at what Chan was able to do with a not-so-talented group like they currently have.

Daboll has something better, the NE Patriots playbook and he has been running with it to a degree calling for the downfield passes like Brady throws. The biggest difference is that Josh McDaniel's calls for more outlet passes to move the chains with RB James White who is seeing a lot of passes. White leads the team in receptions with 45 right now and second is Gronk with 26. What does that tell you about what Daboll isn't doing?

 

Chan Gailey got the HCing job in Buffalo because he told Ralph Wilson he could win without big money stars on offense. (from Peter King SI) So, Gailey who ran a pistol type offense as OC in KC went to a 5 WR spread set in Buffalo. This scheme worked for a while because of Fitz who knew protections and barked them out to set the line and Stevie Johnson who didn't run precise routes but what he did do was he was able to find a way to get separation and get open against even the very best DBs. 

 

Gailey ran what was dubbed a "smoke and mirror" offense because he would put 5 WRs on the field and spread the offense out sideline to sideline and yet Stevie Johnson was the guy who saw the most targets. Fitz would throw a very quick, fast out to Steve that was almost unstoppable. After a while most teams realized that if they bumped Stevie on the line and took him out of the equation that pass offense didn't work so well. 

 

Gaileys spread offense was a delight to watch because Fitz would gun sling his way to almost 4000 yards. The run game worked out of that shotgun spread formation because the defense was so spread out that the RBs usually only had to beat one guy and it was a race after that. Both Spiller and Fred Jackson had over 5.0 YPC average in 2011. 

 

Fun to watch on offense but the best the team ever did under Gailey was 6-10 and the best the offense under Gailey was 14th, Yards, Points. Interesting stat, 27 in rush attempts, 13th in yards. 

 

2011 stats.

Stevie Johnson, 134 targets, 76 catches for 1004 yards, 7 TDs. 56.7 catch%. 

David Nelson, 97 targets, 61 catches for 658 yards, 5 TDs, 62.9 catch%

Fred Jackson, 50 targets, 39 catches for 442 yards, 0 TDs, 78.0 catch %

CJ Spiller, 54 targets, 39 catches for 269 yards, 2 TDs, 72.2 catch%

Scott Chandler, 46 targets, 38 catches for 389, 6 TDs, 82.6 catch%

 

[GunnerBill]

17 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

The o-line wasn't great, but it was better than what it is now.

 

Glenn - Levitre - Wood - Urbik - Pears which was the line his final year as head coach is about a million times better than now. As for washing out outside Buffalo.... other than Wood who obviously retired here they all started games elsewhere in the league. Glenn has been a massive upgrade in Cincy, Levitre has started in a Superbowl, Pears started two more seasons here and then the entire season for the 49ers after the Bills released him and Urbik continued to be a starter / rotational depth guy here and then in Miami. 

 

I maintain of our existing offensive lineup only Shady and probably Charles Clay (not great but better than Chandler) would start on that Chan Gailey offense. You can make an argument for Benjamin based on his production in Carolina but not on his play in Buffalo. 

[Estelle Getty]

22 hours ago, Rebel101 said:

Do you actually watch the games? Because run run pass is all we do. I stopped reading once you said those days are gone

 

Simply not true, but ok!

[Maine-iac]

On 10/25/2018 at 7:42 AM, T master said:

 

!st yr OC with this team, 1st yr new scheme, loss of 3 veteran starting offensive linemen one of which was a pro bowler, well below average WR corp, Rookie QB after a 2nd round 2nd yr QB with less than NFL potential starts the yr, then insert almost retired average at best QB with a career 20-27 win percentage after rookie gets hurt to carry the team .

 

Sounds logical to me why you would think this OC sucks yah he has plenty to work with & there was no uphill battle here at all so WTF Dabol get off your A** & get this team on the winning side of things !!  

All of this explains why he's averaging 12ppg instead of his usual 16ppg. 

[Rebel101]

11 hours ago, Estelle Getty said:

 

Simply not true, but ok!

I didn’t watch the entire colts game I turned it off. But Daboll runs on first down constantly. And he has ran the ball twice in a row multiple times. The only time he begins to pass is late in the game when we are behind. And for some reason began to throw the ball with peterman in and game and a lead where running the ball was actually the smart move. We are 27th in the league in passing percentage and we play from behind from behind almost every game. But you are right we throw the ball all the time

Edited October 27, 2018 by Rebel101

[iinii]

On 10/25/2018 at 12:02 AM, Estelle Getty said:

The man is atleast attempting to run a real NFL offense. Very rarely do you see the run, run, pass combo we have come so accustom to over the last few years. Gone are the days of draw up the middle out of the shotgun for 1 yard over and over. 

 

The only issue is he is trying to run a modern day NFL offense with Junior College talent.  I think his stubbornness will pay off in the long run by helping to weed out the players who can’t hack it in a real offense. Much like we saw a defensive overhaul this year I would expect the same on offense next year.  

 

I have confidence that McBeane have the ability to figure it out, as they did on defense.  As far as McDermott, let’s not forget he got us to the playoffs with a joke of a roster last year.  This year any educated fan could see we were not built to win although there was always the outside chance much like last year.     

Dalton got us in the playoffs. 

[mrags]

Stop making false posts about 

 yourself Brian. Your terrible. Just quit 

Edited October 27, 2018 by mrags

[Nelius]

Daboll is terrible. I guess we're in some strange world where people who hate the guy who hasn't done his job for half a season are haters, and those willing to withstand this all-time miserable offense are hipster pragmatists or something, but the guy sucks. If he's so damn creative and new-age then our athletic freak of a quarterback wouldn't have averaged something like 91 yards passing a game before getting injured. C'mon people.