I was very wrong about Tyrod & have to own it.

[TigerJ]

7 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

Honestly- what is there to blow up? It’s rubble already.  You can’t blow up Rubble. The thing is freshly blown up!

 

 

I stand by what I said.  Prior to the Indy game, Buffalo's defense was looking like it was near elite.  In the words of Fred Jackson, it looked like Indy's offensive coordinator was able to take advantage of the youth of the linebackers; Edmunds and Milano.  By all accounts they are promising young linebackers, who just need to gain more experience.  On offense, there is more work to be done, admittedly.  The Bills need to upgrade their starters on the offensive line and at wide receiver.  I'm not against drafting another QB next spring, but I don't want to trade picks to move higher to do it, and I don't think the Bills should even go after one in the first round.  I also think the Bills should try and get younger at running back.  I don't think any of that constitutes a full rebuild.  I also don't think Buffalo should make wholesale changes in their coaching staff.  If McDermott decides to tweak his coaching staff, that's one thing, but I continue to believe the most important thing for the Bills to strive for is continuity.   You are welcome to disagree.  

[TigerJ]

20 hours ago, Chemical said:

They get blown out far too often. And now another one against a bad team. NYJ being the other.

Game results are rarely as bad or as good as they might appear.  I think that is true this season, and in the Indianapolis game in particular.  I think the young players on the Bills are somewhat fragile in terms of their psyche, and when things go bad, they can start go goo bad in a hurry, but I think experience will fix a lot ofo that.  As far as Derek Anderson's performance is concerned, I said before the game, I was concerned about how things would turn out.  It's not that he can't turn in a competent performance.  I was just concerned that it would be hard to do so on ten days practice.  While he and Brian Daboll are familiar with each other, there have been a lot of years that have passed, and Daboll's offense has changed significantly.  As the game went on, and the Bills were forced to pass more to try and catch up, the limited number of plays Anderson could run made it easier for Indianapolis to anticipate what the Bills were going to do.

 

I think the game next week is going to be similarly ugly, not because Anderson wont make strides.  I think he will;.  He's not going to get comfortable enough and have a strong enough command of the playbook to look good versus the New England Patriots, however.  Also, right now, the youth of the Bills defense makes them particularly vulnerable to crafty high end veteran QBs like Luck, Rodgers, and Brady.  So, I expect another round of fingerpointing and scapegoating after next Monday's game, and it will be wrong and misdirected.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

3 minutes ago, TigerJ said:

I stand by what I said.  Prior to the Indy game, Buffalo's defense was looking like it was near elite.  In the words of Fred Jackson, it looked like Indy's offensive coordinator was able to take advantage of the youth of the linebackers; Edmunds and Milano.  By all accounts they are promising young linebackers, who just need to gain more experience.  On offense, there is more work to be done, admittedly.  The Bills need to upgrade their starters on the offensive line and at wide receiver.  I'm not against drafting another QB next spring, but I don't want to trade picks to move higher to do it, and I don't think the Bills should even go after one in the first round.  I also think the Bills should try and get younger at running back.  I don't think any of that constitutes a full rebuild.  I also don't think Buffalo should make wholesale changes in their coaching staff.  If McDermott decides to tweak his coaching staff, that's one thing, but I continue to believe the most important thing for the Bills to strive for is continuity.   You are welcome to disagree.  

 

Not disagreeing.  The is literally nothing to blow up. 

 

Its like finding a piece of the Hindenburg and wabring to blow it up. 

 

Beane has barely been there a year, McDermott not much longer. 

 

Resume right now is taking a proejected 5-6 win team to the playoffs in the first year. 

 

Rookies lead both O and D. 

 

They have barely started to build anything blowup-able 

[mjd1001]

20 hours ago, apuszczalowski said:

And those are all their choices that they need to be held accountable for. They decided to cut or trade the talented players currently on the roster. They decided they valued picks and take on dead cap more then the current talent

 

They decided they wanted to draft the QB that would take the longest to be ready to play, if he ever reached the ceiling some felt he may have the potential to reach. To help this QB succeed they hired a WR as a QB coach, and bring in a OC who hasnt had any real success at the NFL level. They also decided that it was better to have the other QB choices to have a total of 1/2 a seasons worth of career starts between them. Then after trading away the one guy who did crap the bed in his previous start and break a record for one of the worst starts in league history, they waited til week 6 to bring in a veteran to mentor the rookie. They brought in no upgrades at WR to add to one of the leagues worst groups to help the QB, and after losing more then half their line from last year, they didnt attempt to upgrade or replace the guys lost.

 

They have shown no significant improvements in any positions this year and it doesnt matter how.much cap space they have available if no one worth spending money on wants to sign here, and why would they accept for a paycheck? They also haven't shown much ability to be able to judge talent, specifically on the offensive side.

 

It wont matter if they keep these guys for another year or 2 or fire them now of they arent the right guys. These guys haven't proven anything that they are capable of building a winner, all they have shown is that they know how to take a team backwards.

 

It wont matter if they fire them and blow things up cause theres nothing left to blow up. The team is a pile of rubble

They should be held accountable by the owner, but not this year.  I'm sure those choices were run by the ownership, and they may have even been an option presented to ownership BEFORE they were hired and that is why they were hired.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

On 10/22/2018 at 10:15 AM, Mrbojanglezs said:

noone was wrong about Tyrod except the national media... we all knew what we had in him. He was  good enough to get you to 8-9 wins and maybe the playoffs with good defense. He was careful with the ball, made plays with his legs, but wasn't a good or consistent passer.

 

Bills could have kept him around for this year but eventually we would have moved on. He was never going to light the world on fire passing and he wouldn't have won us a super bowl.

 

Are we worse now? Yes, but that doesn't change the facts about Tyrod. He lasted how many weeks in Cleveland?

It's too difficult to say how TT would have done had he stayed.

My guess is we'd still have seen 0-2 and seen a switch soon after. 

 

BTW ...... 

Didn't people say CLE had better talent than BUF?  

[reddogblitz]

On 10/22/2018 at 7:10 AM, pop gun said:

To think Tyrod would be the remedy for the current Bills ails is comical. 

 

Would Tyrod be better than Allen has been, sure probably but it's no guarantee, 19 pass yards in a half and being benched for a rookie suggests that. Oh and Cleveland has way way way better offensive weapons than what is here in Buffalo. Heck I don't even know if McDermott is better than Hue Jackson anymore.

 

82 yards > 59 yards

 

But really, is anyone saying "Tyrod would be the remedy for the current Bills ails"?  I think we would be better on offense which would take pressure off our defense.  Would give us a better chance to win (which is the point) IMHO.

[kota]

Not sad he is gone.  If we hadn't traded AJ we would be fine.

[Foreigner]

The only reason this offense is not 33rd is because there are only 32 teams in the league. Welcome to Monday night. 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

53 minutes ago, Foreigner said:

The only reason this offense is not 33rd is because there are only 32 teams in the league. Welcome to Monday night. 

Look at the ESPN power rankings 

 

i thoigh they said 2 maybe 3 teams had a worse O than the Bills in certain stats 

 

[Patrick Duffy]

5 hours ago, kota said:

Not sad he is gone.  If we hadn't traded AJ we would be fine.

Lol, I really don't think we would.

[Norcalbillsfan]

On 10/21/2018 at 11:41 PM, transplantbillsfan said:

Look, I'm not going to rub this in for one simple reason I'm finally and truly accepting... despite my belief before this season we could make another playoff run:

 

It's not about this season.

 

Yes, Tyrod Taylor was very underrated by a lot of hyperbolic Bills fans like yourself.

 

Yes, Tyrod Taylor would have been massively better to have on our roster than AJ McCarron during the Summer if we're talking about 2018.

 

Yes, he was still under contract, anyway, so keeping him much to the chagrin of fans like yourself was absolutely an option.

 

But honestly, it's not about this season.

 

I don't remember where I saw it, but I think we have the most 1st or 2nd year players starting or seeing significant time on the field in the NFL. And guys like Edmunds, Phillips, Taron Johnson, Dawkins, Milano, Zay (lately) and White all look good to spectacular.

 

Allen is obviously still a question mark.

 

The biggest and most important one.

 

But if Allen improves and becomes a Franchise QB, our future looks incredibly bright... maybe as soon as next year.

 

If he doesn't, well that sucks, because it all hinges on him.

 

But keeping Taylor might have helped us this year, but I actually personally think Allen--when healthy--just needs to be on the field playing. Trial by fire. Let him learn on the field. Keeping Taylor would have hindered that.

Agree with almost everything. I totally agree with trial by fire, but so far it's been an inferno for Allen. Put a rookie behind one of the worst Olines in football, with hands down the worst reciever core in football. Hes already almost had a season ending injury and the toll on his confidence can be doing more harm than good. 

[Cusefan66214]

Ummm I’m pretty sure Tyrod would get massacred behind this oline 

[billsfan89]

I honestly would like to see Tyrod get traded to Jacksonville. Bortles stinks and he is holding the team back with his turnovers and general bad play. Tyrod would protect the ball and make just enough plays with his legs to buy the offense some first downs. Basically Tyrod would be a cheap way to improve their QB play. Right now Bortles doesn't allow that team to play the football that makes them successful. Granted their defense hasn't been crushing it either but at least a risk averse QB with the ability to move the chains with his legs might just be "good enough" for the Jags to make a run at the playoffs if their defense can get on track. 

[Big Gun]

1 hour ago, billsfan89 said:

I honestly would like to see Tyrod get traded to Jacksonville. Bortles stinks and he is holding the team back with his turnovers and general bad play. Tyrod would protect the ball and make just enough plays with his legs to buy the offense some first downs. Basically Tyrod would be a cheap way to improve their QB play. Right now Bortles doesn't allow that team to play the football that makes them successful. Granted their defense hasn't been crushing it either but at least a risk averse QB with the ability to move the chains with his legs might just be "good enough" for the Jags to make a run at the playoffs if their defense can get on track. 

No, Tyrod is nowhere as good as Bortles and Bortles stinks.

[Bing Bong]

Duh?! QB play can get a lot worse than Tyrod. Top 64 QB by the worst definition we have #s 80, 100, and some dude that's like the 1000th best QB in the world. I found that argument ludicrous. "BUT THE SAINTS GAME".. At least he can do the Dolphins game and pull a few more out of his ***, huh, maybe he can win a few games. As he did!

 

Of course you can be worse than a career .500 QB. Especially an athletic one that hides your offensive defencenies

On 10/22/2018 at 5:18 AM, twoandfourteen said:

They were right to see what they had in NP last year. Taylor was a mess and something had to be done. I don't blame them for starting NP last year. 

Eh they were dead wrong. While in the playoff hunt the Bills NP decision was nationally a surprise (in a bad way) before and certainly after the game. And these guys hardly follow the Bills they just knew Tyrod had a few bad games on a horrible offense and knew NP wasn't going to do better on that same offense.

[John from Riverside]

5 hours ago, Cusefan66214 said:

Ummm I’m pretty sure Tyrod would get massacred behind this oline 

Tyrod would make this OL look better then it is....but ultimately defenses would figure out how to play him and continue to stifle the offense and frustrate fans......

 

It was always gonna get worse before it got better and most knew that......

[twoandfourteen]

3 hours ago, PetermanThrew5Picks said:

Duh?! QB play can get a lot worse than Tyrod. Top 64 QB by the worst definition we have #s 80, 100, and some dude that's like the 1000th best QB in the world. I found that argument ludicrous. "BUT THE SAINTS GAME".. At least he can do the Dolphins game and pull a few more out of his ***, huh, maybe he can win a few games. As he did!

 

Of course you can be worse than a career .500 QB. Especially an athletic one that hides your offensive defencenies

Eh they were dead wrong. While in the playoff hunt the Bills NP decision was nationally a surprise (in a bad way) before and certainly after the game. And these guys hardly follow the Bills they just knew Tyrod had a few bad games on a horrible offense and knew NP wasn't going to do better on that same offense.

 

The bar was 56 yards passing for an entire game. Not to mention all of the other missed opportunities he left on the field during the season. Carolina, Cincinnati, and the New England games also come to mind. TT was able to pull it together twice against the Dolphins, I suppose.

 

Here's a fun game -- name Tyrod's "signature" throw from last year. There isn't one. 

 

When the decision was made, it was unlikely that NP was going to be worse than that. Now, we all know that he managed to beat the odds and found a way to pull it off. 

 

Also, how would people who "hardly follow" the Bills "just know" anything at all about their back-up QB? 

 

1 hour ago, John from Riverside said:

Tyrod would make this OL look better then it is....but ultimately defenses would figure out how to play him and continue to stifle the offense and frustrate fans......

 

It was always gonna get worse before it got better and most knew that......

 

This is false, false, false. Mobile QBs who take forever to read the defense and throw the football almost always make O-lines look far worse than they really are. This isn't my opinion, it's a fact. 

 

1. Holding on to the ball too long gives extra time to the pass rush. The problem there should be self-explanatory. 

 

2. Their inclination to move around and scramble means that lineman have no idea where the QB is going to be or go on any given play. This causes issues because the oncoming pass rush CAN see the QB and can react accordingly, meaning they have an advantage over the O-line. This results in lots of sacks and holding penalties. 

 

So, this idea that TT would somehow improve the pass protection is not even close to reality. Also, Josh Allen has more than proven to be every bit the "running threat" that Tyrod was. 

[Thurman#1]

On ‎10‎/‎22‎/‎2018 at 4:56 AM, twoandfourteen said:

Last year, I said that the passing offense couldn't get worse than it was under Tyrod. 

 

Boy was I wrong.

 

I honestly didn't think it was really possible for a collection of professional coaches & players to perform as poorly on offense as they have this season. 

 

Beane & McDermott deserve to be fired at the end of this season. 

 

 

You sure were wrong.

 

Why would you think things couldn't get worse at QB than having a QB who was around the 20th to 22nd best in the league. There are 10 - 12 QBs worse than that every year, and those usually include the rookies who end up starting and plenty of other very young guys.

 

Of course it was capable of being much much worse, and it was always likely to get worse for a year or two. That was the likelihood. We had a chance if McCarron had been good, but with their Whaley-inherited salary cap woes, they weren't going to get a more expensive vet, and the flier on McCarron didn't work out. That was too bad, but bad QB play this year .... the second year of a rebuild and the year we drafted a rookie well-known to need a ton of development ... was always likely to be worse.

 

So, no, Beane and McDermott work for an owner who understands rebuilds. In the third and fourth years,  their seats will indeed become hot if things don't look up. Not this year. The Pegulas get it.

[Teddy KGB]

8 hours ago, billsfan89 said:

I honestly would like to see Tyrod get traded to Jacksonville. Bortles stinks and he is holding the team back with his turnovers and general bad play. Tyrod would protect the ball and make just enough plays with his legs to buy the offense some first downs. Basically Tyrod would be a cheap way to improve their QB play. Right now Bortles doesn't allow that team to play the football that makes them successful. Granted their defense hasn't been crushing it either but at least a risk averse QB with the ability to move the chains with his legs might just be "good enough" for the Jags to make a run at the playoffs if their defense can get on track. 

 

Forgot about the playoff game already?   

 

Forgot about the benching after 3 games already ?   

 

Tyrod is done, he ain’t helping any NFL team 

[mannc]

On 10/21/2018 at 1:24 PM, Bfanlc said:

Keep the coaches, bring in talent, and rebuild. Firing anyone will only compound the mistakes made.

Who do you want to “bring in the talent” (as if you can just go down to the corner store and pick up a bag of “talent”), the guys who have methodically stripped the franchise of it?  

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

On 10/23/2018 at 6:04 PM, billsfan89 said:

I honestly would like to see Tyrod get traded to Jacksonville. Bortles stinks and he is holding the team back with his turnovers and general bad play. Tyrod would protect the ball and make just enough plays with his legs to buy the offense some first downs. Basically Tyrod would be a cheap way to improve their QB play. Right now Bortles doesn't allow that team to play the football that makes them successful. Granted their defense hasn't been crushing it either but at least a risk averse QB with the ability to move the chains with his legs might just be "good enough" for the Jags to make a run at the playoffs if their defense can get on track. 

A strategy defenses use against Tyrod and Blake ......  Make them a QB.

 

As we saw in the playoff game ......   Blake out shined Tyrod. 

 

case closed.  

On 10/23/2018 at 11:25 PM, John from Riverside said:

Tyrod would make this OL look better then it is....but ultimately defenses would figure out how to play him and continue to stifle the offense and frustrate fans......

 

It was always gonna get worse before it got better and most knew that......

John,   The O Line has lost talent.  We can all agree on that.

 

5 games 21 sacks 4.2 spg
14 games 46 sacks 3.2 spg

 

There really isn't that much of a difference.  

[John from Riverside]

7 hours ago, twoandfourteen said:

 

The bar was 56 yards passing for an entire game. Not to mention all of the other missed opportunities he left on the field during the season. Carolina, Cincinnati, and the New England games also come to mind. TT was able to pull it together twice against the Dolphins, I suppose.

 

Here's a fun game -- name Tyrod's "signature" throw from last year. There isn't one. 

 

When the decision was made, it was unlikely that NP was going to be worse than that. Now, we all know that he managed to beat the odds and found a way to pull it off. 

 

Also, how would people who "hardly follow" the Bills "just know" anything at all about their back-up QB? 

 

 

This is false, false, false. Mobile QBs who take forever to read the defense and throw the football almost always make O-lines look far worse than they really are. This isn't my opinion, it's a fact. 

 

1. Holding on to the ball too long gives extra time to the pass rush. The problem there should be self-explanatory. 

 

2. Their inclination to move around and scramble means that lineman have no idea where the QB is going to be or go on any given play. This causes issues because the oncoming pass rush CAN see the QB and can react accordingly, meaning they have an advantage over the O-line. This results in lots of sacks and holding penalties. 

 

So, this idea that TT would somehow improve the pass protection is not even close to reality. Also, Josh Allen has more than proven to be every bit the "running threat" that Tyrod was. 

When you have a qb that has a propensity to not sit in the pocket and throw defenses focus more on keeping them in the pocket

 

the o line protection is not actually better I do think defenses play them differently

[Nelius]

Apparently there are still quite a few people who are willing to give Daboll some rope.

 

This poor, abused fanbase. Stockholm Syndrome for real. Daboll is awful, folks.

[dave mcbride]

9 hours ago, twoandfourteen said:

 

The bar was 56 yards passing for an entire game. Not to mention all of the other missed opportunities he left on the field during the season. Carolina, Cincinnati, and the New England games also come to mind. TT was able to pull it together twice against the Dolphins, I suppose.

 

Here's a fun game -- name Tyrod's "signature" throw from last year. There isn't one. 

 

When the decision was made, it was unlikely that NP was going to be worse than that. Now, we all know that he managed to beat the odds and found a way to pull it off. 

 

Also, how would people who "hardly follow" the Bills "just know" anything at all about their back-up QB? 

 

 

False. He made a huge deep throw against TB late that effectively helped them win the game. The throw to a stumbling Zay Jones (who failed at his route too) against Carolina was a perfect read and throw too. Too bad the receiver messed it up. It would have been a game winner.

[billsfan89]

6 hours ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

A strategy defenses use against Turod and Blake ......  Make them a QB.

 

As we saw in the playoff game ......   Blake out shined Tuhrod. 

 

case closed.  

 

 

Jacksonville could have a good enough defense where a QB that doesn't turn the ball over and makes some plays with his legs could be a winning formula. Tyrod avoids turnovers and makes plays with his legs. In 2007 when the Jags went 11-5 they had David Gerrad who basically just managed games and let a great defense handle things. Blake turns the ball over and doesn't really use his legs that great even though he has some mobility. If I am the Jags I toss The Browns a 4th for Tyrod, you can ***** on Tyrod all you want to but he was a competent QB who if asked to manage a game could be successful. 

1 hour ago, Nelius said:

Apparently there are still quite a few people who are willing to give Daboll some rope.

 

This poor, abused fanbase. Stockholm Syndrome for real. Daboll is awful, folks.

 

Personally I don't know how good or bad Daboll is because I don't know if there is any scheme that can get much out of the current offensive group. My best guess is to give Daboll the rest of the season to see if he improves but I would not be shocked or disappointed to see him gone in the off-season. 

7 hours ago, Teddy KGB said:

 

Forgot about the playoff game already?   

 

Forgot about the benching after 3 games already ?   

 

Tyrod is done, he ain’t helping any NFL team 

 

I don't think there are many teams Tyrod would help but Jacksonville might be the one team where Tyrod would represent and upgrade (Because of how bad Bortles is) and Tyrod's conservative game would fit with how the team plays (Avoid Turnovers, let the defense and the running game win the game, maybe Tyrod makes a few plays with his legs.)

 

I think Tyrod ventures off into being a high end backup or a starter for a team with a rookie the rest of his career but if there was one team that might actually benefit from kicking the tires on him it would be the Jags.

[Bing Bong]

10 hours ago, twoandfourteen said:

 The bar was 56 yards passing for an entire game.

Come on with that. Did JA set the bar with his worst game? The bar was Tyrod's season to date. We yanked after one particularly bad game and several mediocre games. I don't feel comfortable yanking a mediocre Quarterback on a clearly ****y offense and for a 5th round rookie against a monster pass rush in the playoff hunt. You're fine with playing the 10% odds (or whatever you felt it to be) that dude is better, I'm not.. agree to disagree there I guess. But it's ultimately who is the better Quarterback between the 2.. and McDermott HAD NO IDEA 7 WEEKS IN JUST HOW BAD PETERMAN WAS. From a fan perspective sure we can say maybe he should start we can't see that practice. A good coach should have known who the better quarterback is regardless of who had a poor game the week before.

 

Like I can't think of one single thing Peterman is better at than Tyrod.. I would say the anticipation throws but Peterman is so freaking reckless with that I'd rather have a guy that didn't throw his first read with reckless abandon. A good coach would probably see that recklessness decision making if he was paying attention in practice, would think to himself "hmm good completion on a throw Tyrod is hesistant to make.. but was that telegraphed and would a defense blitzing take advantage of a reckless gunslinger who throws his last progression route to a terrible receiver when under pressure.. no matter what? Probably not a good idea"

Edited October 24, 2018 by PetermanThrew5Picks

[ngbills]

Which Tyrod do you prefer:

 

Tyrod 1

28-42, 274 YD, 1 TD, 1 INT

21-38, 291 YD, 3 TD

18-30, 297 YD,  3 TD, 1 INT

27-38, 289 YD, 1 TD, 1 INT

26-39, 329 YD, 3 TD

29-40, 285 YD, 2 TD

21-38, 281 YD

 

Tyrod 2

10-17, 109 YD, 1 TD

11-12 , 181 YD, 1 TD

17-27, 158 YD, 1 TD

20-27, 165 YD, 1 TD

12-18, 166 YD, 1 TD

17-24, 174 YD, 1 TD

14-19, 195 YD,  1 TD

 

Tyrod 1 breaks all kinds of passing records. Throws for over 4,000 yards and 30+ TD's. Tyrod 2 must suck, leads to 30th passing attack in the league. He should be replaced by Peterman. Wait Tyrod 1 team is 0-7. Tyrod 2 team is 7-0. 

 

 

[Stank_Nasty]

i'm just patiently waiting for @xRUSHx to come barreling into this thread at mach speeds, then smearing crap all over the walls like a pissed off ape at the zoo.

 

 

please don't let me down... wherever you are.

Edited October 24, 2018 by Stank_Nasty

[Gigs]

On 10/21/2018 at 5:00 PM, ChattanoogaBills said:

No... no they dont deserve to be fired the first pair to break the drought ...

Jauron , Rex and others got multiple years McDermott and co deserve longer

It was a Whaley built team that broke the drought but even he was fired. The QB that led us there was traded away. They don’t know what they’re doing and it’s pretty bad to watch. This all reminds me of when Tim Murray ran the Sabres into the ground. The Pegulas should be well versed in reckless trading but here we are where you can’t just trade for young talent and let them develop somewhere hopefully. These trades directly affect the team’s performance. 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

5 hours ago, Nelius said:

Apparently there are still quite a few people who are willing to give Daboll some rope.

 

This poor, abused fanbase. Stockholm Syndrome for real. Daboll is awful, folks.

Rookie Josh Allen, Nate pick 6 Peterman, Retired DA.  

 

#1  WR that plain out has played like  ? 

 

What more do you expect?  

 

(Not saying Dabol is the answer) 

[twoandfourteen]

13 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

You sure were wrong.

 

Why would you think things couldn't get worse at QB than having a QB who was around the 20th to 22nd best in the league. There are 10 - 12 QBs worse than that every year, and those usually include the rookies who end up starting and plenty of other very young guys.

 

Of course it was capable of being much much worse, and it was always likely to get worse for a year or two. That was the likelihood. We had a chance if McCarron had been good, but with their Whaley-inherited salary cap woes, they weren't going to get a more expensive vet, and the flier on McCarron didn't work out. That was too bad, but bad QB play this year .... the second year of a rebuild and the year we drafted a rookie well-known to need a ton of development ... was always likely to be worse.

 

So, no, Beane and McDermott work for an owner who understands rebuilds. In the third and fourth years,  their seats will indeed become hot if things don't look up. Not this year. The Pegulas get it.

 

Nah. TT was in the 35-30 range, at best. 

 

There were easily 30 QBs that no team would have traded straight up for TT. 

3 hours ago, ngbills said:

Which Tyrod do you prefer:

 

Tyrod 1

28-42, 274 YD, 1 TD, 1 INT

21-38, 291 YD, 3 TD

18-30, 297 YD,  3 TD, 1 INT

27-38, 289 YD, 1 TD, 1 INT

26-39, 329 YD, 3 TD

29-40, 285 YD, 2 TD

21-38, 281 YD

 

Tyrod 2

10-17, 109 YD, 1 TD

11-12 , 181 YD, 1 TD

17-27, 158 YD, 1 TD

20-27, 165 YD, 1 TD

12-18, 166 YD, 1 TD

17-24, 174 YD, 1 TD

14-19, 195 YD,  1 TD

 

Tyrod 1 breaks all kinds of passing records. Throws for over 4,000 yards and 30+ TD's. Tyrod 2 must suck, leads to 30th passing attack in the league. He should be replaced by Peterman. Wait Tyrod 1 team is 0-7. Tyrod 2 team is 7-0. 

 

 

 

Great job of illustrating how "garbage time" in losses can grossly exaggerate production. 

[BringBackOrton]

3 hours ago, ngbills said:

Which Tyrod do you prefer:

 

Tyrod 1

28-42, 274 YD, 1 TD, 1 INT

21-38, 291 YD, 3 TD

18-30, 297 YD,  3 TD, 1 INT

27-38, 289 YD, 1 TD, 1 INT

26-39, 329 YD, 3 TD

29-40, 285 YD, 2 TD

21-38, 281 YD

 

Tyrod 2

10-17, 109 YD, 1 TD

11-12 , 181 YD, 1 TD

17-27, 158 YD, 1 TD

20-27, 165 YD, 1 TD

12-18, 166 YD, 1 TD

17-24, 174 YD, 1 TD

14-19, 195 YD,  1 TD

 

Tyrod 1 breaks all kinds of passing records. Throws for over 4,000 yards and 30+ TD's. Tyrod 2 must suck, leads to 30th passing attack in the league. He should be replaced by Peterman. Wait Tyrod 1 team is 0-7. Tyrod 2 team is 7-0. 

 

 

Imagine thinking throwing for 4000 yards is record breaking. In today’s NFL. Is there such thing as Tyrod Derangement Syndrome?

[Thurman#1]

11 hours ago, twoandfourteen said:

 

Nah. TT was in the 35-30 range, at best. 

 

There were easily 30 QBs that no team would have traded straight up for TT. 

 

 

Just because nobody would trade a rookie Goff or a rookie Wentz for Tyrod didn't mean Tyrod wasn't performing better that year. 

 

He was playing around 20th to 22nd best, probably. Which when that is your ceiling is just good enough to make sure that teams will constantly be trying to replace you. 

 

Yeah, there were a bunch more guys that teams hoped had the potential to become better than Tyrod. But around 20 - 22nd is probably how well you would rank his performance each year he was on the Bills, though the first seven games or so before teams got a bead on how to defend him he looked like he might really be something.

 

 

22 hours ago, mannc said:

Who do you want to “bring in the talent” (as if you can just go down to the corner store and pick up a bag of “talent”), the guys who have methodically stripped the franchise of it?  

 

 

It's called a rebuild. Rebuilds involve serious pain. It's part of the deal, unfortunately, especially rebuilds where the last GM left the team in a bad cap situation.

 

And it's not like the team they inherited was any better than sub-mediocre.

 

So yes, the guys who have started the rebuild should get to finish it. There are a few exceptions, such as if they totally lose the locker room or start making visibly dumb decisions and statements ala Rexy, but none of that has happened yet. At some point they will have no excuses, they will have to stand or fall by their record. A year and a half into a near-complete rebuild is not that time. Horrible pain at that time is built into the process.

 

Edited October 25, 2018 by Thurman#1

[Thurman#1]

15 hours ago, PetermanThrew5Picks said:

Come on with that. Did JA set the bar with his worst game? The bar was Tyrod's season to date. We yanked after one particularly bad game and several mediocre games. I don't feel comfortable yanking a mediocre Quarterback on a clearly ****y offense and for a 5th round rookie against a monster pass rush in the playoff hunt. You're fine with playing the 10% odds (or whatever you felt it to be) that dude is better, I'm not.. agree to disagree there I guess. But it's ultimately who is the better Quarterback between the 2.. and McDermott HAD NO IDEA 7 WEEKS IN JUST HOW BAD PETERMAN WAS. From a fan perspective sure we can say maybe he should start we can't see that practice. A good coach should have known who the better quarterback is regardless of who had a poor game the week before.

 

Like I can't think of one single thing Peterman is better at than Tyrod.. I would say the anticipation throws but Peterman is so freaking reckless with that I'd rather have a guy that didn't throw his first read with reckless abandon. A good coach would probably see that recklessness decision making if he was paying attention in practice, would think to himself "hmm good completion on a throw Tyrod is hesistant to make.. but was that telegraphed and would a defense blitzing take advantage of a reckless gunslinger who throws his last progression route to a terrible receiver when under pressure.. no matter what? Probably not a good idea"

 

 

If you could perfectly tell how good a rookie QB is from only watching him in practice, life would be a whole ton easier. You often can't.

 

If it wasn't sometimes quite difficult to tell what kind of guy you have, the Chargers would never have drafted Phillip Rivers after three years of seeing Brees in practice and two years of seeing him in games. Your argument that they should have known is simply not reasonable. Sometimes guys who look quite good in practice aren't good in games and sometimes they are. That's life in football. 

 

We knew Tyrod wasn't good enough to be with us the next year by then. We knew it was a good year to draft a QB the next year. We knew the team wasn't particularly good, as they were 5-4 against a not very good schedule (5-11 Jets, 11-5 Panthers who had been in a slump and were 5-4 at the time, 5-11 Broncos, 10-6 Falcons who had been in a slump and lost Julio and were 4-4 at that point, 7-9 Bengals, 5-11 Bucs, 6-10 Raiders and 5-11 Jets again) and we were likely going to be 5-5 regardless of who played QB against the Saints. And we obviously didn't know what we had with Peterman.

 

It certainly didn't turn out well. But that doesn't mean taking the risk was indefensible. It wasn't. 

Edited October 25, 2018 by Thurman#1

[mannc]

19 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Just because nobody would trade a rookie Goff or a rookie Wentz for Tyrod didn't mean Tyrod wasn't performing better that year. 

 

He was playing around 20th to 22nd best, probably. Which when that is your ceiling is just good enough to make sure that teams will constantly be trying to replace you. 

 

Yeah, there were a bunch more guys that teams hoped had the potential to become better than Tyrod. But around 20 - 22nd is probably how well you would rank his performance each year he was on the Bills, though the first seven games or so before teams got a bead on how to defend him he looked like he might really be something.

 

 

 

 

It's called a rebuild. Rebuilds involve serious pain. It's part of the deal, unfortunately, especially rebuilds where the last GM left the team in a bad cap situation.

 

And it's not like the team they inherited was any better than sub-mediocre.

 

So yes, the guys who have started the rebuild should get to finish it. There are a few exceptions, such as if they totally lose the locker room or start making visibly dumb decisions and statements ala Rexy, but none of that has happened yet. At some point they will have no excuses, they will have to stand or fall by their record. A year and a half into a near-complete rebuild is not that time. Horrible pain at that time is built into the process.

 

You are repeating a lot of myths.  The Bills were not “sub-mediocre” when McBeane arrived on the scene.  Yes, Rex was an awful coach, but they were a .500 team, with a competent offense.  NFL teams make the leap from .500 to Super Bowl contender all the time without tearing everything down and starting over.  

 

There was no need for a complete, tear-it-down rebuild and, to my knowledge, neither McDermott nor McBeane ever said any such thing was necessary.  And  I’m pretty sure neither said that as part of the rebuild the team might field the worst offense in the history of the league for a season or two.

 

Finally, the Bills weren’t in “cap jail” until McBeane put them there by purging all of the former regime’s players.

 

And I think there is a very real risk the they will lose the locker room at the rate they are going.  Some of the guys on defense are already making business decisions out there.  If we see a lot more Indy-like performances this year, McDermott’s seat will get very hot indeed.

[The_Dude]

On 10/21/2018 at 3:56 PM, twoandfourteen said:

Last year, I said that the passing offense couldn't get worse than it was under Tyrod. 

 

Boy was I wrong.

 

I honestly didn't think it was really possible for a collection of professional coaches & players to perform as poorly on offense as they have this season. 

 

Beane & McDermott deserve to be fired at the end of this season. 

 

You weren't wrong about Tyrod. Just because Beane and McDermott are awful at evaluating offense doesnt make you wrong on Taylor.

Taylor is a worthless starting QB. Hes a decent backup, if you have a super bowl team with a good defense. 

[fridge]

22 hours ago, ngbills said:

Which Tyrod do you prefer:

 

Tyrod 1

28-42, 274 YD, 1 TD, 1 INT

21-38, 291 YD, 3 TD

18-30, 297 YD,  3 TD, 1 INT

27-38, 289 YD, 1 TD, 1 INT

26-39, 329 YD, 3 TD

29-40, 285 YD, 2 TD

21-38, 281 YD

 

Tyrod 2

10-17, 109 YD, 1 TD

11-12 , 181 YD, 1 TD

17-27, 158 YD, 1 TD

20-27, 165 YD, 1 TD

12-18, 166 YD, 1 TD

17-24, 174 YD, 1 TD

14-19, 195 YD,  1 TD

 

Tyrod 1 breaks all kinds of passing records. Throws for over 4,000 yards and 30+ TD's. Tyrod 2 must suck, leads to 30th passing attack in the league. He should be replaced by Peterman. Wait Tyrod 1 team is 0-7. Tyrod 2 team is 7-0. 

 

 

 

Are the stats for Tyrod 1 supposed to be incredible? Only in Buffalo do those stats look like they break records.  At least 10 teams get that production week in and week out.

 

[ngbills]

26 minutes ago, fridge said:

 

Are the stats for Tyrod 1 supposed to be incredible? Only in Buffalo do those stats look like they break records.  At least 10 teams get that production week in and week out.

 

Try again. That would have led the league in passing yards. Brady avg 286 last season and led the league. 

[Bfanlc]

On 10/24/2018 at 5:42 AM, mannc said:

Who do you want to “bring in the talent” (as if you can just go down to the corner store and pick up a bag of “talent”), the guys who have methodically stripped the franchise of it?  

I'm not talking about right now. I'm talking about FA and drafts. Next year is the year for improvement. And what I mean by improvement is gradual not superbowl winning improvement. Something like a 8-8 to 9-7 record. If we see no improvement, another dumbest ever trade, and a losing record it would be time for a change. 

[mannc]

5 hours ago, Bfanlc said:

I'm not talking about right now. I'm talking about FA and drafts. Next year is the year for improvement. And what I mean by improvement is gradual not superbowl winning improvement. Something like a 8-8 to 9-7 record. If we see no improvement, another dumbest ever trade, and a losing record it would be time for a change. 

8-8 or 9-7 territory is where we were under Rex Ryan.  Why would it be desirable to tear down and rebuild in order to get back to where you started?