Sean McDermott: "Culture Trumps Strategy" ?​​​​​​​

[Gugny]

5 minutes ago, 4_kidd_4 said:

 

Ha!

 

Pay to play indeed. I chuckle at some of these “rah rah” locker room speeches because you know there’s at least a handful of guys rolling their eyes in there.

 

Didn’t someone on the Steelers film themself basically doing just that during a Tomlinson rahrah session?

 

I think it was Antonio Brown, actually!

[jkeerie]

1 minute ago, 4_kidd_4 said:

 

Ha!

 

Pay to play indeed. I chuckle at some of these “rah rah” locker room speeches because you know there’s at least a handful of guys rolling their eyes in there.

 

Didn’t someone on the Steelers film themself basically doing just that during a Tomlinson rahrah session?

That's because the Steelers are losing.  As much talent as they have, they are now losing.  They are not playing as a team.  When teams start losing despite the talent, the "business" end kicks in a lot quicker and players are not re-signed, leading to more dissatisfaction.  It's a vicious and flawed cycle.

[Gugny]

2 minutes ago, jkeerie said:

That's because the Steelers are losing.  As much talent as they have, they are now losing.  They are not playing as a team.  When teams start losing despite the talent, the "business" end kicks in a lot quicker and players are not re-signed, leading to more dissatisfaction.  It's a vicious and flawed cycle.

 

This was done last year .... after a playoff win.

[John from Riverside]

12 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Gregg Williams is a piece of crap and a miserable human being. SM seems like a genuine and nice guy.  If anything, he is young Dick Jauron.  We have essentially played Jauronball the last 2 years.  We “overachieved” because of the lack of talent they helped provided.  Last year was the greatest version of Jauronball ever besides Jauron’s 13-3 year.

I have absolutely no idea how anyone can make a comparison between the two

 

McD.....commands respect and his players play for him

 

Gregg Williiams.....I bet there are players on his own team that would love the kick the **** out of him

[BillsPride12]

1 minute ago, jkeerie said:

That's because the Steelers are losing.  As much talent as they have, they are now losing.  They are not playing as a team.  When teams start losing despite the talent, the "business" end kicks in a lot quicker and players are not re-signed, leading to more dissatisfaction.  It's a vicious and flawed cycle.

The Steelers are the perfect example why Culture does matter.  That team is like a freaking Soap Opera right now.  Talent is still the most important piece but you can have talent and still not have the winning recipe which is what's going on with the Steelers right now.  You need to have talent and culture.  It's not a one or the other argument.  What people don't realize is McDermott is not gonna throw his guys under the bus in press conferences by saying "We don't have any talent on this team" but he and Beane know they have alot of work to do with the personnel.  

[26CornerBlitz]

 

Meanwhile, elsewhere in the NFL.....

 

 

[ColoradoBills]

9 minutes ago, jkeerie said:

The team that McDermott refers to though is not the Bills "business."  It's playing for each other.  It's 53 individuals collectively playing for one goal.  Coaches coach the players they are given.  They recognize the business aspect of it...thus turnover...but move forward irrespective of it since most times they have little control over the business side of things.

 

 

 

It's McDermott's culture.

Every team and coach says these words.......................McDermott takes it as gospel.

And I used that word purposely.

[iinii]

2 minutes ago, nucci said:

The difference is McCoy got the big money contract extension and Thomas did not

Which he already has most of, right? Some RB needy team would probably gladly take a used Shady for 6 million a year. And he has to be looking around and wondering if the Bills dumped all those other younger talented players, when is my time up here? 

 

At this point in his career he probably wants a ring. Injuries tend to ruin earning potential is my point but more importantly for McCoy is that an injury would make a ring virtually non-existent. Something he realistically won’t see due to age and the length of time it will take for the process to evolve in Buffalo. 

[nucci]

2 minutes ago, BillsPride12 said:

The Steelers are the perfect example why Culture does matter.  That team is like a freaking Soap Opera right now.  Talent is still the most important piece but you can have talent and still not have the winning recipe which is what's going on with the Steelers right now.  You need to have talent and culture.  It's not a one or the other argument.  What people don't realize is McDermott is not gonna throw his guys under the bus in press conferences by saying "We don't have any talent on this team" but he and Beane know they have alot of work to do with the personnel.  

How do you explain the Steelers winning the previous 4 seasons with pretty much the same culture?

[Paulus]

56 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

See, this is kind of where I am.  Culture is important - do people want to be there?  Do they consistently put in their best effort to prepare, execute, evaluate, and improve?  Are they team first, and not memememe?

 

But I think it's hard - maybe impossible - to build a great culture if you don't have a sound strategy and have people believe in that strategy.

 

I think a lot of people in this thread are confusing strategy and tactics, which with I sympathize because it's always been a point I get mixed.

 

Are the Patriots a culture or a strategy?

 

Can an element of strategy be to have a strong culture? Perhaps even being culture first? 

 

The way through terms are used lends me to believe that people have differing definitions of each, at least within this context.

 

Is showing up to work on time a culture of strategy type of thing? What good is a strategy if the workers won't implement it? 

 

Bottom line, the twitter dolts are just trying to stir a pot of ignorance with their fans, and this is a HUGE NOTHING BURGER! 

[John from Riverside]

Just now, iinii said:

Which he already has most of, right? Some RB needy team would probably gladly take a used Shady for 6 million a year. And he has to be looking around and wondering if the Bills dumped all those other younger talented players, when is my time up here? 

 

At this point in his career he probably wants a ring. Injuries tend to ruin earning potential is my point but more importantly for McCoy is that an injury would make a ring virtually non-existent. Something he realistically won’t see due to age and the length of time it will take for the process to evolve in Buffalo. 

I still dont think Shady has slowed down....I think it that this OL is so bad that he literally has no room to operate.....

 

The OL might get better as the season goes on and they play together more....but right now they are opening NO running lanes

[blacklabel]

2 hours ago, Philo Beddoe said:

I don't believe he is saying strategy isn't important, just that a good culture - a WINNING culture - can overcome strategy flaws or personnel differences within a game. Take a look at the Pats*...plug in player X, Y, Z who may not be the most talented and they still roll along because they have had a sustained system and winning culture. That's where McDermott wants the Bills to be, IMO. 

 

I definitely agree with this.

 

Sometimes during games I'll get sucked into the Twitter-verse and see a lot of live tweeting, and over the last few seasons, one of the most common things I've seen mentioned by former players (and at times, those players' wives) would be that they'd look at the sideline and see no sense of brotherhood or unity with the Bills. And these former players were guys like Talley, Bennett, Kelly, Thomas, etc. They all have said at one point or another, one of the reasons they were so successful in the 90s was because, despite the egos, those guys really had a strong sense of family and unity. They all wanted to ball out for each other, not just for themselves. That's what McDermott is trying to build here. And we've seen already that it works. Last years team wasn't the most talented but they really enjoyed playing for each other. Just seeing that sideline erupt for Taiwan Jones, a career special teams and back up guy, playing in a regular season game against an NFC opponent in Week 5 was just awesome. 

 

These guys genuinely wanna see each other do well. And those are the kinds of players they'll continue to bring in here because, in their opinion, that's what's going to get them over the hump.

 

Now, the one concern I've had since the jump with this regime is I would hope that they don't pass up on an extremely talented player because of character concerns. I'm sure they have a threshold for what they're comfortable with, what kinda baggage they'll allow players to bring with them, but I get the sense that their threshold for that is pretty low. On the flip-side of this, if they have a strong locker room with dependable leaders, then they should feel more comfortable bringing in a guy who may have some character issues because they can lean on those players in leadership roles to take a young guy under their wing and really show him how to be a professional. So, yeah, I sincerely hope they don't talk themselves out of taking a really talented guy (if they have the chance at one) because they're afraid his baggage will mess with the locker room vibe. Have faith in your guys and your culture and if, after a season or two, the guy in question hasn't turned it around, they can trade him elsewhere. They have no problem doing that (see: Watkins/Darby/Dareus).

 

But yeah, I like where you're coming from here Phillo, good assessment. 

[Bob Chandler's Hands]

1 hour ago, stony said:

Do you think this would apply to the NFL where many regimes only get 3 years or less?

If the regime lasts 3 years or less then they failed anyway, due to some combination of factors. If you are aiming for long term success I think it applies. 

 

A recent article in Sports Illustrated on the Seahawks was illuminating. The premise of the article was that they built a very strong culture (based on competition and accountability) that had success and was primed for continued success, but they deviated from it and corrupted it, at least in part leading to their downfall. 

 

But yeah, for the three ring circus we're used to in Buffalo it's a foreign concept for sure. Have to go back to the Levy/Polian era for a strong winning culture that lasted many years. 

[BillsPride12]

Just now, nucci said:

How do you explain the Steelers winning the previous 4 seasons with pretty much the same culture?

I follow some Pittsburgh Sports Reporters on Twitter and have been following this situation for the last few years.  The Steelers have been underachieving for awhile and alot of things have been building up for the last couple years which has led to them imploding this season.  They have enough talent to win a Super Bowl but they have a ton of divas in the locker room and a lot of guys have friction with each other.  Steelers fans hate this current team and I've heard alot of comments saying for many of them they have never cared less about the Steelers before.  Do some research and you will see.  It hasn't been pretty over there regardless of their winning record the last few seasons.  

[BillsFanForever19]

I can't wait until the offseason when we have a Billion dollars to spend and sign no difference makers. 

 

There's a finite amount of Free Agents that will actually sign with us to begin with. And from that pool, McBeane will only sign the one's that fit their culture. Valuing character over talent.

 

It's feeling more and more like the Dick Jauron era every day.

Edited October 3, 2018 by BillsFanForever19

[iinii]

1 minute ago, John from Riverside said:

I still dont think Shady has slowed down....I think it that this OL is so bad that he literally has no room to operate.....

 

The OL might get better as the season goes on and they play together more....but right now they are opening NO running lanes

I am not trying to debate McCoy’s talent just his mindset. He still has wheels IS my point and would prefer to ride off into on winning sunset rather than keep the seat warm in a rebuild.

[jkeerie]

7 minutes ago, CountDorkula said:

 

1st bold he said "once our attitude changes the run game will improve" - which is entirely false. 

2nd bold This makes zero sense. in that case every team in the NFL is young because players and coordinators are constantly changing.

 

 

 

Find me a team that doesn't do this. 

I do agree with your first point.  If this is what McDermott said, I can't say I understand why he said it.

 

The Bills...these coaches and players have experienced wholesale change over the past two years.  Thus they are "younger."  McDermott has only been a head coach for two years.  Granted you could argue the same about McVay...but he inherited a core group that was severely mismanaged by the previous regime.  

 

The key is ALL 53 must be on the same page.  Yes...every team is shooting for the same goal.  All it takes is for one player to mess up...play stupidly (penalties and the like) to make the difference in winning and losing.

 

[Gugny]

5 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

I have absolutely no idea how anyone can make a comparison between the two

 

McD.....commands respect and his players play for him

 

Gregg Williiams.....I bet there are players on his own team that would love the kick the **** out of him

 

How many of the players who stood by and watched Tre White laying motionless on the ground after Gronk decked him last year, are still on the team?

 

How about the guys who watched Tyrod get his bell rung against Jacksonville?  Those players who said/did nothing to the opposing team?

 

Allen gets tossed around like a rag doll and thrown to the ground.  What do you see his teammates doing?  (answer: throwing an air flag and walking away)

 

These guys are not playing for McDermott.  They are not playing for each other.  They are playing for the paycheck.  Period.

 

This culture thing, I'm afraid, is an antiquated approach.

 

Just get some !@#$ing talent on the team (including an OC, O line coach and WR coach) and win some !@#$ing games.

[par73]

You want to build a winning culture, right? The buzzwords are getting tiresome.

[CommonCents]

It’s clear that McD doesn’t like saying quotable material so he will regret this one, even though it’s being taken out of context.

 

He was obviously trying to point towards the culture change and roster turn over being well underway. People saying he wants culture over talent are just sounding off for the sake of hearing themelseves speak. The most talented players on the roster were some of the most disinterested in the team first culture so they had to go. 

 

It is indeed a process. If they hit on Allen and Edmunds that should buy them enough time to see it through. 

 

Attitude fixing the running game? Another melt down from the melt down crew? He is most likely alluding to the frustration the Oline and backs have, have you not seen them yelling at eachother on Sundays? I’m sure that room is tense and some of those guys aren’t here long term and the coach knows that. 

 

Keep two feet on the ground, don’t need anyone jumping over a few quotes being taken out of context the first week of October. 

 

 

[John from Riverside]

2 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

How many of the players who stood by and watched Tre White laying motionless on the ground after Gronk decked him last year, are still on the team?

 

How about the guys who watched Tyrod get his bell rung against Jacksonville?  Those players who said/did nothing to the opposing team?

 

Allen gets tossed around like a rag doll and thrown to the ground.  What do you see his teammates doing?  (answer: throwing an air flag and walking away)

 

These guys are not playing for McDermott.  They are not playing for each other.  They are playing for the paycheck.  Period.

 

This culture thing, I'm afraid, is an antiquated approach.

 

Just get some !@#$ing talent on the team (including an OC, O line coach and WR coach) and win some !@#$ing games.

Not happening this year.....which actually may be part of the plan.

 

You gotta suck to get into the top 3 picks but at least they have their QB on board.

[ColoradoBills]

11 minutes ago, CountDorkula said:

 

1st bold he said "once our attitude changes the run game will improve" - which is entirely false. 

 

 

Everyone who knows anything about the Buffalo Bills offense knows the OL is playing truly horrible football.

He is giving his OL one more chance to prove that they have some sort of talent and can play the game better

with more effort.  He is not going to tell the media that the OL is made up of a bunch of "talentless" pu$$ys.

 

I'm still taking Beane and McDermott at their word.

 

I will however, have a completely different opinion of them IF guys like Benjamin and Miller are on the team next year.

Until then I will watch and see what happens.

 

 

[Gugny]

Just now, John from Riverside said:

Not happening this year.....which actually may be part of the plan.

 

You gotta suck to get into the top 3 picks but at least they have their QB on board.

 

I know they're not going to win a lot this year and I'm fine with it.

 

But for the love of Christ, at least PRETEND to have each other's backs. 

[jkeerie]

4 minutes ago, Bob Chandler's Hands said:

If the regime lasts 3 years or less then they failed anyway, due to some combination of factors. If you are aiming for long term success I think it applies. 

 

A recent article in Sports Illustrated on the Seahawks was illuminating. The premise of the article was that they built a very strong culture (based on competition and accountability) that had success and was primed for continued success, but they deviated from it and corrupted it, at least in part leading to their downfall. 

 

But yeah, for the three ring circus we're used to in Buffalo it's a foreign concept for sure. Have to go back to the Levy/Polian era for a strong winning culture that lasted many years. 

The citation of the Seahawks is a perfect example of why culture is important.  They are pretty much employing the same strategy this year, but as you said, the culture isn't the same. 

[teef]

Just now, ColoradoBills said:

 

Everyone who knows anything about the Buffalo Bills offense knows the OL is playing truly horrible football.

He is giving his OL one more chance to prove that they have some sort of talent and can play the game better

with more effort.  He is not going to tell the media that the OL is made up of a bunch of "talentless" pu$$ys.

 

I'm still taking Beane and McDermott at their word.

 

I will however, have a completely different opinion of them IF guys like Benjamin and Miller are on the team next year.

Until then I will watch and see what happens.

 

 

i think he realizes the talent isn't enough, but that being said, the ol still could be playing better.  that's what i got out of it.

 

the entire team needs to play better.  i don't expect the wins, but at least the fight.  i'm patient with this staff, but this is on coaching.  i do think he can right the ship though.

[nucci]

culture, process.......just get good players and good coaches and win some damn games. Football is not a complicated game

[iinii]

I find your ideas convincing and believe I am in the camp of talent breeds culture to an extent. Brady, Jordan all raised the bar on their teams and that created the culture of winning. If you only eat dandelions and raw eggs and are winning a lot of people around may say, I hate that diet but I do love winning so can I wash that down with a beer? 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

11 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

I still dont think Shady has slowed down....I think it that this OL is so bad that he literally has no room to operate.....

 

The OL might get better as the season goes on and they play together more....but right now they are opening NO running lanes

 

What John said.  Our run blocking is a total debacle.

[K-9]

13 minutes ago, Paulus said:

Are the Patriots a culture or a strategy?

 

Can an element of strategy be to have a strong culture? Perhaps even being culture first? 

 

The way through terms are used lends me to believe that people have differing definitions of each, at least within this context.

 

Is showing up to work on time a culture of strategy type of thing? What good is a strategy if the workers won't implement it? 

 

Bottom line, the twitter dolts are just trying to stir a pot of ignorance with their fans, and this is a HUGE NOTHING BURGER! 

Good point. When these  twitter dweebs refer to the “Patriot Way” they aren’t referring to a strategy, the are referring to a deeply ingrained culture. I like your suggestion that establishing a culture can be part of a strategy, too.

[CountDorkula]

6 minutes ago, jkeerie said:

The citation of the Seahawks is a perfect example of why culture is important.  They are pretty much employing the same strategy this year, but as you said, the culture isn't the same. 

Or they just lost their Legion of doom defense and were not able to play all their good players.......

Just now, K-9 said:

Good point. When these  twitter dweebs refer to the “Patriot Way” they aren’t referring to a strategy, the are referring to a deeply ingrained culture. I like your suggestion that establishing a culture can be part of a strategy, too.

 

What is the Patrirot way?

 

Please define it.

[Gugny]

3 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

What John said.  Our run blocking is a total debacle.

 

I'm not saying that the O Line has been good ... they haven't. 

 

But McCoy has averaged 4.3 YPC and Marcus Murphy, 4.1 YPC.

 

Can't run the ball if the OC doesn't call run plays.

 

 

[Mickey]

Do we have players who don't "love football" or who refuse to do things the "right way"?  What is the "right way"? I assume that means to work hard, be on time, know your playbook, stay in shape and stay out of trouble off the field. If that's basically it, are we losing games because people aren't doing those things??? Seems to me we are losing because we don't have the talent to win one on one matchups whether its blocking on the edge, beating a CB, making the right read or whatever. 

[CountDorkula]

4 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

What John said.  Our run blocking is a total debacle.

 

Hey, if they just pick their heads up and say "gosh darn golly" (no swearing in McDermotts church) "I am going to be better tomorrow. no more negative vibes" this offense is going to be unstoppable. 

[K-9]

1 minute ago, CountDorkula said:

Or they just lost their Legion of doom defense and were not able to play all their good players.......

 

What is the Patrirot way?

 

Please define it.

I leave that to whatever scribe first coined the phrase. I suspect it’s difficult to do though. 

[wppete]

I liked McDermott but this year and the way he is handling himself in the media is embarrassing. Coach speak all the time. He is trying to be clever and sounds like a fool. Trying to be Belichick too bad he is a loser with a loser record. 

 

Whats the purpose of having media Q&A if he answers all the questions like a fool??? Does he think that the fans dont deserve a straight up answer? This guy has a HUGE Ego.

 

 

 

Edited October 3, 2018 by wppete

[CountDorkula]

Just now, K-9 said:

I leave that to whatever scribe first coined the phrase. I suspect it’s difficult to do though. 

I'll tell you what the Patriot way is.

 

It was having very good players and one  the best QB's in the league along with a coach who broke a lot of rules to win. 

 

Once TB12 retires the Patriots are no longer the Patriots.  

 

[ColoradoBills]

6 minutes ago, teef said:

i think he realizes the talent isn't enough, but that being said, the ol still could be playing better.  that's what i got out of it.

 

the entire team needs to play better.  i don't expect the wins, but at least the fight.  i'm patient with this staff, but this is on coaching.  i do think he can right the ship though.

 

Without knowing what goes on other than the play on the field, I couldn't say it's all on coaching nor can I say coaching isn't the problem.

 

I do know one thing.  There are 6 Offensive Guards on the active 53.  They are not there for "injuries".

I think without a complete change of play from the interior line we all will start to see some changes very soon.

There just has to be some huge pressure on Juan Castillo (McDermott's friend) right now.

 

I would love to know how Daboll sees the OL and it's problems.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

15 minutes ago, teef said:

i think he realizes the talent isn't enough, but that being said, the ol still could be playing better.  that's what i got out of it.

the entire team needs to play better.  i don't expect the wins, but at least the fight.  i'm patient with this staff, but this is on coaching.  i do think he can right the ship though.

 

The OL is so strange.  If you go over to the All-22 thread, there are links to 3 Coach Sal tweets about the Bills 2nd series.

 

1st down: 21 personnel.  Good protection, though Matthews doesn't test Lee, instead dropping back.

2nd down: 11 personnel.  Mills and Miller beaten like drums.  It's difficult to describe how totally inadequate Mills is against Matthews.

3rd down: 10 with Shady kept in to block.  Good protection, this is a semi-throw-away (no one really open, but ball could be placed better so Benj had a shot)

 

It's like the OL takes every other play off or something.  Really strange.

 

I have watched run plays until I feel nauseous.  About 1/3 of the time, it's so bad I can't figure out what the blocking was supposed to look like if it had worked.  Part of it is execution - when we do cut blocks, they are rarely effective.  But even that is part coaching, how long do you need to watch cut blocks which end with your OL sprawled on the ground being hurdled by defenders, before you say "OK, this just doesn't work"?  There also just seems to be massive confusion about assignments.  Again, at least part coaching, how long do you need to watch your OL milling about aimlessly before you say "OK, they aren't getting it, let's try something else"

[K-9]

5 minutes ago, CountDorkula said:

I'll tell you what the Patriot way is.

 

It was having very good players and one  the best QB's in the league along with a coach who broke a lot of rules to win. 

 

Once TB12 retires the Patriots are no longer the Patriots.  

 

Can’t argue that. 

 

My my philosophy is that if you fill your organization with enough people that possess football character the culture, whatever tf that is and however tf it manifests,  will take care of itself. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

12 minutes ago, Mickey said:

Do we have players who don't "love football" or who refuse to do things the "right way"?  What is the "right way"? I assume that means to work hard, be on time, know your playbook, stay in shape and stay out of trouble off the field. If that's basically it, are we losing games because people aren't doing those things??? Seems to me we are losing because we don't have the talent to win one on one matchups whether its blocking on the edge, beating a CB, making the right read or whatever. 

 

That is part of it at times.  But part of it seems to be play calling and protection calls.  I don't understand our play calling at all sometimes, and when I say "I don't understand" I mean it seems inappropriate to me.  Protection, sometimes I see what appears to be massive confusion, where the OL doesn't seem to know who they're supposed to block.  But even when they do know - sometimes they get the job done, and sometimes they don't.

 

The D, two games now they seem to come out flat, let the opponent march them backwards 2-4x in the first half, then they're issued their backbones in the 2nd half and play much better, even when we didn't have a commanding lead (eg Pack)

 

So there may be something to be said for a variable amount of effort exerted at times.  Or maybe that's coaching too, different play calls.