THE ROCKPILE REVIEW - Don't Look to Me for Answers

[Shaw66]

“Don’t Look at Me for Answers”

 

Did you come here looking for something that would make you feel better about the Bills’ performance against the Packers?  I may be an optimist, but I’m not a psychiatrist.  Nothing I write will straighten out those ugly thoughts in your head.  Take two aspirin and call me in the morning.

 

I’m pretty good at finding silver linings.  I’m still looking for them following the Bills shutout loss at Lambeau Field on Sunday. 

 

I was looking for improvement Sunday.  Not necessarily improvement over the show the Bills put on against the Vikings, because I knew that game was an aberration.  I wanted improvement over the second half of the Chargers game.  I wanted to see a young team continuing to put things together.

 

Instead, I saw a mess, pretty much everywhere.

 

Josh Allen finally looked like a rookie.  Who but a rookie throws that wounded duck floater near the end zone to blow the best scoring opportunity of the day?  Who but a rookie repeatedly fails to read the defensive front seven and identify where the rush is coming from?  Who but a rookie holds the ball too long over and over?  Who but a rookie hangs his receiver out there to dry on the hit that knocked Benjamin silly?  

 

I’m a big Allen fan.  All I can say about his performance Sunday is that most QBs have to make those mistakes to learn how not to make them. 

 

The offensive line reverted to pitiful.  Didn’t John Miller play pretty well his rookie season?  I mean, well enough to look like a keeper?  Aren’t players supposed to get better through the early seasons of their careers? 

 

Brian Daboll should have had a sleepless Sunday night.  Every team in the league, except the Bills, seems to be able to get receivers open for quick throws to wide outs on short patterns.  Not the Bills.  The Bills ran one wide receiver screen pass against the Packers, but they forgot the screen – there were ZERO blockers lined up wide when the Bills tried it.  It was bubble screen without the bubble.  Who runs a play like that?  Where are the rubs, the slants, the sideline patterns?  Yes, receivers were covered, but the QB and the receivers are supposed to recognize defenses and take what the defense is giving. 

 

Nothing worked, all day.  Nothing.  Daboll was supposed to send his team onto the field with a couple dozen plays that will work against particular Packer sets, so that over the course of the game they can run 20 or 25 or 40 plays that actually work.  The Bills had about 10.   That’s like being in 8^th grade and getting 10 correct on a 25-word spelling test.  How am I supposed to make you feel better about that?  “You should feel good, son.  You spelled your name right”?

 

The defense wasn’t as bad as the offense.  Giving up 22 points when your offense is going three and out and giving the ball away isn’t all that bad, not against a Hall of Fame quarterback playing at home.  If that makes you feel better, I’m glad, but it gives me headache.

 

One thing that encourages me when the Bills are losing at halftime is that the McDermott Bills are a second-half team.  They played better after intermission last season, and they’re doing it again this season, at least on defense.  Of course, by the fourth quarter it was clear to everyone that the Bills could play another 60 minutes and still not score enough to catch the Pack, so everyone seemed to play the second half on cruise control. 

 

The really black lining in the defense’s dark cloud is the absence of hitting.  The Bills defense against the Packers looked like they were playing flag football.  Why didn’t the ref call roughing the passer when Edmunds landed on Rodgers?  Because of the total lack of violence, that’s why.  The ref would have been embarrassed to say that Edmunds could actually hurt anyone with that hit.  Lorenzo Alexander knows how to get after guys once in a while, but the rest of the defense plays patty cake.  Look out, Tom Brady, here comes Matt Milano!  I don’t think so.

 

The refs, of course, didn’t help, but that’s what you get when you’re a sad-sack loser playing the world champions at home.  The Packers got away with an obvious hold of Hughes in open field on the Pack’s first possession.  McDermott was right that the clock should have kept running at the end of the half, and it cost the Bills three points.  Allen suffered a pretty obvious helmet-to-helmet hit on one of his sacks without a call.  The replay clearly showed Allen’s knee on the ground with his hand holding the ball, fingers over the end of the ball, on the should-have-been-reversed fumble call.  If the refs had gotten those calls right, and given the Bills a few more, the score would have been closer but the outcome would have been the same.  

 

All you can do is forget about it and move on. 

 

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

The Rockpile Review is written to share the passion we have for the Buffalo Bills. That passion was born in the Rockpile; its parents were everyday people of western New York who translated their dedication to a full day’s hard work and simple pleasures into love for a pro football team.

[Figster]

Shaw reading the Rockpile Review always makes me feel a little better if its a any consolation.

 

Misery loves company, hehe

 

thanks buddy

[TheElectricCompany]

I sure hope Mcdermott doesn't look at the tape for answers. 

The tape belongs in parking lot burn barrel. 

We're on to Tennessee. 

Edited October 1, 2018 by TheElectricCompany

[Happy]

Maybe not look to you for answers, but McDermott better have some.  And that is questionable.  The Bills are now 1-3, and while no one expected them to be 3-1, the three losses were all embarrassing.  A lot of this appears to be on coaching.  Receivers not getting open, OLine can't block for the run game and the pass game blocking is somewhat iffy.  On defense, aside from the second half of the Chargers game as well as the Vikings game, scheme is timid at best.  Why not be more aggressive against the Rivers and Rodgers of the NFL?  McD has to stop coaching scared...scared of winning, even with a talent deficient roster.

[billspro]

I need answers Shaw!!!! Haha

[Fadingpain]

2 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said:

Maybe not look to you for answers, but McDermott better have some.  And that is questionable.  The Bills are now 1-3, and while no one expected them to be 3-1, the three losses were all embarrassing.  A lot of this appears to be on coaching.  Receivers not getting open, OLine can't block for the run game and the pass game blocking is somewhat iffy.  On defense, aside from the second half of the Chargers game as well as the Vikings game, scheme is timid at best.  Why not be more aggressive against the Rivers and Rodgers of the NFL?  McD has to stop coaching scared...scared of winning, even with a talent deficient roster.

What if they are not particularly interested in winning this season at all?

 

Most of their decisions/actions/inactions in the off-season would suggest, strongly, that they are NOT interested in winning this year.

 

I'm sure they think Allen is their guy and they are done QB shopping.  That is probably a mistake, but that's how they are going to view the situation.
 

So presumably their plan is to finish bottom 3, and trade down to the highest bidder, and really rebuild the core of the team with a bunch of acquired strong draft selections.

 

They are either trying to do that, or they really suck.

 

I honestly don't know which it is, yet.

 

 

[PlayoffsPlease]

Nice summary as usual Mr. Shaw.  Please try to take more solace in the defensive performance.  It should not give you a headache. 

[Shaw66]

1 minute ago, Happy Gilmore said:

Maybe not look to you for answers, but McDermott better have some.  And that is questionable.  The Bills are now 1-3, and while no one expected them to be 3-1, the three losses were all embarrassing.  A lot of this appears to be on coaching.  Receivers not getting open, OLine can't block for the run game and the pass game blocking is somewhat iffy.  On defense, aside from the second half of the Chargers game as well as the Vikings game, scheme is timid at best.  Why not be more aggressive against the Rivers and Rodgers of the NFL?  McD has to stop coaching scared...scared of winning, even with a talent deficient roster.

I don't think he's coaching scared, but I don't think he's coaching right, either.  After the Chargers, he got after them about playing with speed, and they responded.   He shouldn't have to be after them to dial up the basics all the time, but that's what seems to be necessary.

 

A lot of blocking is just getting to the right spot and getting in the way without giving ground.   His linemen don't seem to do even that consistently.   And the same about the receivers, although I think it's more about scheme than the players.   They always say the defense is always giving you something - the middle, the sidelines, the short, the deep.   This teams should be able to come to the line and see, at least some of the time, what the defense is giving and TAKE IT!   Take the five yard slant, the out pattern, the dump off over the middle.   All Allen has to do is see it and throw it.  I'm sure it isn't that simple, but it sure LOOKS simple when Rodgers and Rivers and Flacco do it.  Allen has to be able to do it SOME of the time.  

[Happy]

Just now, Fadingpain said:

What if they are not particularly interested in winning this season at all?

 

Most of their decisions/actions/inactions in the off-season would suggest, strongly, that they are NOT interested in winning this year.

 

I'm sure they think Allen is their guy and they are done QB shopping.  That is probably a mistake, but that's how they are going to view the situation.
 

So presumably their plan is to finish bottom 3, and trade down to the highest bidder, and really rebuild the core of the team with a bunch of acquired strong draft selections.

 

They are either trying to do that, or they really suck.

 

I honestly don't know which it is, yet.

 

 

 

If the plan was to tank this year, then why the effort against the Vikings?  Why the half time adjustment against the Chargers?

I don't think the word "tank" is in McDermott's vocabulary.  I do think he and his staff are getting completely mismatched against mediocre to good teams.

[MILFHUNTER#518]

1 minute ago, Shaw66 said:

I don't think he's coaching scared, but I don't think he's coaching right, either.  After the Chargers, he got after them about playing with speed, and they responded.   He shouldn't have to be after them to dial up the basics all the time, but that's what seems to be necessary.

 

A lot of blocking is just getting to the right spot and getting in the way without giving ground.   His linemen don't seem to do even that consistently.   And the same about the receivers, although I think it's more about scheme than the players.   They always say the defense is always giving you something - the middle, the sidelines, the short, the deep.   This teams should be able to come to the line and see, at least some of the time, what the defense is giving and TAKE IT!   Take the five yard slant, the out pattern, the dump off over the middle.   All Allen has to do is see it and throw it.  I'm sure it isn't that simple, but it sure LOOKS simple when Rodgers and Rivers and Flacco do it.  Allen has to be able to do it SOME of the time.  

Rookies like Allen NEED games like this to learn from. Rodgers, Rivers and Flacco had to learn to do that, and it took SERIOUS time. He will get it, I believe in Josh. 

[Shaw66]

I also think that up and down is what you get with McDermott.  We saw it last year, and we're seeing it this year.  They're world beaters one week and egg beaters the next.  

[Success]

I loved how our defense played yesterday.  Since the 2nd half against the Chargers, that unit has been stellar.  They did everything they could yesterday.  Very encouraged by that.

 

I still like what I’m seeing in Allen.  As the OP states, young QB’s have to make those mistakes.  But he’s tough and doesn’t stop competing.

 

I’m not throwing in the towel yet.

[Shaw66]

2 minutes ago, MILFHUNTER#518 said:

Rookies like Allen NEED games like this to learn from. Rodgers, Rivers and Flacco had to learn to do that, and it took SERIOUS time. He will get it, I believe in Josh. 

I'm a serious believer in Josh.  And I agree about the mistakes.   That's why it's good for him to play this season - let him make the mistakes this season, when the team isn't going anywhere anyway, than next season.

 

AND, there's a long way to go.   Josh will be much better in the second half of this season.  

3 minutes ago, Success said:

I loved how our defense played yesterday.  Since the 2nd half against the Chargers, that unit has been stellar.  They did everything they could yesterday.  Very encouraged by that.

 

I still like what I’m seeing in Allen.  As the OP states, young QB’s have to make those mistakes.  But he’s tough and doesn’t stop competing.

 

I’m not throwing in the towel yet.

Points per game they aren't horrible, and that's what really matters.   Yards per game, they're horrible, more or less.  

 

If Edmunds keeps learning, the defense should improve in the second half.  

[SoCal Deek]

Thanks Shaw

 

On Saturday I posted how we were all going to see whether the Minnesota game was the outlier or whether they were on a clear upward path.  The answer is simple...the Vikings game was the outlier! Our only hope is that September is the new August in the NFL and that Sunday was the final preseason game so now the Starters are going to hit the gas pedal. Yeah...right!

[Soda Popinski]

Growing pains.   

[Happy]

5 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I don't think he's coaching scared, but I don't think he's coaching right, either.  After the Chargers, he got after them about playing with speed, and they responded.   He shouldn't have to be after them to dial up the basics all the time, but that's what seems to be necessary.

 

A lot of blocking is just getting to the right spot and getting in the way without giving ground.   His linemen don't seem to do even that consistently.   And the same about the receivers, although I think it's more about scheme than the players.   They always say the defense is always giving you something - the middle, the sidelines, the short, the deep.   This teams should be able to come to the line and see, at least some of the time, what the defense is giving and TAKE IT!   Take the five yard slant, the out pattern, the dump off over the middle.   All Allen has to do is see it and throw it.  I'm sure it isn't that simple, but it sure LOOKS simple when Rodgers and Rivers and Flacco do it.  Allen has to be able to do it SOME of the time.  

 

If the OLine can't block consistently, who is that on, the OC or the OLine coach?  If the receivers can't get open in their routes, is that on the OC or WR coach?  Why does the defense seem to play timidly against better QBs, is that on Frazier with McD's blessing?  My fear is that McD believes so strongly in his buddy network and coaches he hires, he won't fire them if they don't change what they're currently doing to something that suits what they have as far as personnel.  Maybe I'm wrong about this, and I hope so.

 

The opposing defenses seem to be giving our offense the longer routes, occupying the LOS which stops the run, and sending DB blitzes that Allen can't diagnose; they know all of this is a challenge for a rookie QB.  Hopefully Allen starts to see some of these tactics and starts to audible and counteract; it will take a little more time, losses, and pain.

[SoCal Deek]

Come On Happy!

Rogers was getting the ball out of his hands in less than two seconds!  Are you trying to tell us that the Bills defense didn't notice?  Brady does the same to them twice each year.  Allen needs an offense loaded with short slants, screens, etc.   Stop trying to throw the ball long so we can all be impressed with this ARM STRENGTH!!!!

[Foxx]

46 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

“Don’t Look at Me for Answers”

 

Did you come here looking for something that would make you feel better about the Bills’ performance against the Packers?  I may be an optimist, but I’m not a psychiatrist.  Nothing I write will straighten out those ugly thoughts in your head.  Take two aspirin and call me in the morning.

 

I’m pretty good at finding silver linings.  I’m still looking for them following the Bills shutout loss at Lambeau Field on Sunday ....

 

... All you can do is forget about it and move on. 

 

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

The Rockpile Review is written to share the passion we have for the Buffalo Bills. That passion was born in the Rockpile; its parents were everyday people of western New York who translated their dedication to a full day’s hard work and simple pleasures into love for a pro football team.

i really enjoyed this one, Shaw. thanks for taking the time.

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

This team has good players on defense and some of the worst offensive personnel in recent memory. I think the DC is a serious issue and our GM is apparently not interested in adding any talent to help Allen. It’s not good.

[Gordio]

Here is a sobering stat.  In McDermott's tenure as head coach the Bills have loss 7 out of the 21 games by more than 20 points.  Tanking/not tanking, in an era when parity reigns that is simply mind blowing.  

[GoBills808]

31 minutes ago, Soda Popinski said:

Growing pains.   

Dis.

[nucci]

I watched so many teams roll up 400 yards of offense and scoring 30-40 points....exciting finishes to so many games yet we score 0.

[quinnearlysghost88]

1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

“Don’t Look at Me for Answers”

 

Did you come here looking for something that would make you feel better about the Bills’ performance against the Packers?  I may be an optimist, but I’m not a psychiatrist.  Nothing I write will straighten out those ugly thoughts in your head.  Take two aspirin and call me in the morning.

 

I’m pretty good at finding silver linings.  I’m still looking for them following the Bills shutout loss at Lambeau Field on Sunday. 

 

I was looking for improvement Sunday.  Not necessarily improvement over the show the Bills put on against the Vikings, because I knew that game was an aberration.  I wanted improvement over the second half of the Chargers game.  I wanted to see a young team continuing to put things together.

 

Instead, I saw a mess, pretty much everywhere.

 

Josh Allen finally looked like a rookie.  Who but a rookie throws that wounded duck floater near the end zone to blow the best scoring opportunity of the day?  Who but a rookie repeatedly fails to read the defensive front seven and identify where the rush is coming from?  Who but a rookie holds the ball too long over and over?  Who but a rookie hangs his receiver out there to dry on the hit that knocked Benjamin silly?  

 

I’m a big Allen fan.  All I can say about his performance Sunday is that most QBs have to make those mistakes to learn how not to make them. 

 

The offensive line reverted to pitiful.  Didn’t John Miller play pretty well his rookie season?  I mean, well enough to look like a keeper?  Aren’t players supposed to get better through the early seasons of their careers? 

 

Brian Daboll should have had a sleepless Sunday night.  Every team in the league, except the Bills, seems to be able to get receivers open for quick throws to wide outs on short patterns.  Not the Bills.  The Bills ran one wide receiver screen pass against the Packers, but they forgot the screen – there were ZERO blockers lined up wide when the Bills tried it.  It was bubble screen without the bubble.  Who runs a play like that?  Where are the rubs, the slants, the sideline patterns?  Yes, receivers were covered, but the QB and the receivers are supposed to recognize defenses and take what the defense is giving. 

 

Nothing worked, all day.  Nothing.  Daboll was supposed to send his team onto the field with a couple dozen plays that will work against particular Packer sets, so that over the course of the game they can run 20 or 25 or 40 plays that actually work.  The Bills had about 10.   That’s like being in 8^th grade and getting 10 correct on a 25-word spelling test.  How am I supposed to make you feel better about that?  “You should feel good, son.  You spelled your name right”?

 

The defense wasn’t as bad as the offense.  Giving up 22 points when your offense is going three and out and giving the ball away isn’t all that bad, not against a Hall of Fame quarterback playing at home.  If that makes you feel better, I’m glad, but it gives me headache.

 

One thing that encourages me when the Bills are losing at halftime is that the McDermott Bills are a second-half team.  They played better after intermission last season, and they’re doing it again this season, at least on defense.  Of course, by the fourth quarter it was clear to everyone that the Bills could play another 60 minutes and still not score enough to catch the Pack, so everyone seemed to play the second half on cruise control. 

 

The really black lining in the defense’s dark cloud is the absence of hitting.  The Bills defense against the Packers looked like they were playing flag football.  Why didn’t the ref call roughing the passer when Edmunds landed on Rodgers?  Because of the total lack of violence, that’s why.  The ref would have been embarrassed to say that Edmunds could actually hurt anyone with that hit.  Lorenzo Alexander knows how to get after guys once in a while, but the rest of the defense plays patty cake.  Look out, Tom Brady, here comes Matt Milano!  I don’t think so.

 

The refs, of course, didn’t help, but that’s what you get when you’re a sad-sack loser playing the world champions at home.  The Packers got away with an obvious hold of Hughes in open field on the Pack’s first possession.  McDermott was right that the clock should have kept running at the end of the half, and it cost the Bills three points.  Allen suffered a pretty obvious helmet-to-helmet hit on one of his sacks without a call.  The replay clearly showed Allen’s knee on the ground with his hand holding the ball, fingers over the end of the ball, on the should-have-been-reversed fumble call.  If the refs had gotten those calls right, and given the Bills a few more, the score would have been closer but the outcome would have been the same.  

 

All you can do is forget about it and move on. 

 

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

The Rockpile Review is written to share the passion we have for the Buffalo Bills. That passion was born in the Rockpile; its parents were everyday people of western New York who translated their dedication to a full day’s hard work and simple pleasures into love for a pro football team.

you forgot about the pick play on their first TD. 

32 minutes ago, nucci said:

I watched so many teams roll up 400 yards of offense and scoring 30-40 points....exciting finishes to so many games yet we score 0.

It'd be nice to not be matched up against four playoff caliber teams (three away games). We will be much more competitive these next three games. 

[Shaw66]

13 minutes ago, quinnearlysghost88 said:

you forgot about the pick play on their first TD. 

I kept looking for a good replay of it and didn't see one.   Picks are legal within a yard of the line scrimmage, but it looked to be like the picker came off the line, maybe actually into the end zone, before he set what looked like a basketball pick.  Within a yard, it's legal, outside of yard they should have been penalized.  

 

Just look at it on NFL.com.  LOS at the 3, pick at the 1.  Shoulda been a flag, for sure.  

Edited October 1, 2018 by Shaw66

[freddyjj]

Shaw66, many thanks for doing these weekly, especially after a game like yesterday's.  I share many of your sentiments and have some items of my own as listed below:

1. After the Bills peewee game, I watched the Saints varsity offense do some great crossing routes versus man, where slot guy does flag to corner and Michael Thomas does a drag across from the Outside position.  One of the 2 WRs was always open, and I mean HS football open!
2. If teams are going to man press our WRs and come up to the LOS to do so, wouldn't rub routes work really well?  Someone with more football playing/coaching experience please comment?
3. When we got to the 20 yd line we had 11 personnel in and sent all 3 WRs and TE on 4 vertical routes against an obvious blitz.  Shady stayed in to block but the interior of OLine apparently missed their assignment.  I thought protection calls go inside out - will love to see the all-22 on that pick in end zone.
4. Allen looked like a PeeWee or HS QB on that pick.  I think they cover "Don't throw late (especially across your body off your back foot) over the middle" on Day 2 of Pee Wee.
5. The Bills must be planning on some OLine changes long term as they have 4 young dudes (Teller, Boettger, McDermoot and the new signee) on the active roster.  Can see a couple of them seeing playing time after the next couple weeks.
6. Let's hope Hyde is OK because we have little depth at DB as Bush was covering slot when Johnson got hurt.  If they don't like Gaines and Taron Johnson has a bad shoulder, why not sign Leonard Johnson as insurance and waive goodbye to one of our backup WRs OL or DL?
7. 7-0, 13-0 and 16-0 are not scores that would cause me to abandon the run.  And yet Daboll did. 
8. Why not put in a packed (All personnel inside the #'s formation) with RPOs and rub routes galore to free up some quick hit passes for our rookie QB?

Would love to get  yours and other TSW members takes on the above.  Thanks

[nucci]

1 hour ago, quinnearlysghost88 said:

you forgot about the pick play on their first TD. 

It'd be nice to not be matched up against four playoff caliber teams (three away games). We will be much more competitive these next three games. 

Hope you're right...that pick play pissed me off.....how did they miss that?

[mead107]

Nice work Shaw ?

[Gray Beard]

2 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

Come On Happy!

Rogers was getting the ball out of his hands in less than two seconds!  Are you trying to tell us that the Bills defense didn't notice?  Brady does the same to them twice each year.  Allen needs an offense loaded with short slants, screens, etc.   Stop trying to throw the ball long so we can all be impressed with this ARM STRENGTH!!!!

Another aspect of this quick passing game that I wonder about is how to defend it. Several teams are doing it, so there should be a way to stop it.  Hit the guy off the line? Get linebackers who can cover? I don’t know, but I’m not an NFL defensive coordinator. 

 

 

I was was also wondering about the play when Benjamin got hit. Should Allen have realized it was suicide for Benjamin to catch it, and therefore not throw it? That has to be a tough thing to learn.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 hours ago, MILFHUNTER#518 said:

Rookies like Allen NEED games like this to learn from. Rodgers, Rivers and Flacco had to learn to do that, and it took SERIOUS time. He will get it, I believe in Josh. 

 

This is probably not a good choice of QB analogies, since Rodgers sat and learned for 3 years before starting in his 4th season.  Rivers again sat for 2 years, started his 3rd season.

 

And yes, even so, both had a couple stinkers their first year of play. 

 

Here we have a trifecta of worst possible cases: rookie QB, weak OL, weak receiving corps, and OC who is calling games like a novice.

 

11 minutes ago, Gray Beard said:

I was was also wondering about the play when Benjamin got hit. Should Allen have realized it was suicide for Benjamin to catch it, and therefore not throw it? That has to be a tough thing to learn.

 

I think that is one too many things for the rookie QB to be thinking about.  Benjamin isn't a rookie, if he stepped up he would have had position on the ball and the DB would have had to pull up or have the defenseless receiver rule zap him.  It was having the ball in his sights and nothing to stop him that had the DB charging in.

[GrizzReaper]

22 minutes ago, nucci said:

Hope you're right...that pick play pissed me off.....how did they miss that?

 

 

Eck... Green Bay had a few calls/no calls go their way this game. The helmet to helmet on that sack... KB took one straight to the face on that int where he was labeled. Idk if that comes into effect there though but boy he took a shot to the head. The pick crap they pulled that a couple times. Hughes getting flagrantly held and watching him flail his arms waiting for the flag and never getting one was another horrible officiating job. We got away with Edmunds sack on Rogers... Idk it was a bad game by the officiating crew for sure though. Not that it would've changed the outcome but I was surprised of how poorly this one was called.

[TFBillsfan]

Thanks Shaw for the write up. As a long time Bills fan, I’ve conceded this year the Bills are a work in progress and most likely will finish with a top five draft pick. With that sad my expectations are minimal THIS year. I’m looking for a few things this season:

 

1) How is McDermott learning and growing as a head coach?

2) Are players improving and developing?

3) Can our OC put together a consistent and competitive offensive scheme?

4) Does Josh learn from his mistakes that he will make and improve at reading defenses?

 

Lastly, regarding Allen I have major concerns who is helping him develop? Who’s in the film room with him, who is talking to him on the sidelines? The lack of an experienced QB to help him is a HUGE void in my opinion. I feel this staff has put him on an island and it’s ALL on him to learn and improve with zero supporting cast.

 

 

[GETTOTHE50]

The Bills haven't been able to field a capable offense in almost two decades.

 

Yes, they have been the #1 rushing team a couple of times, but only because the passing game has always been pathetic.

 

It's always been a mix of bad o-line play, receivers, QB, and coaching.

 

I think they have got their QB in Allen, so at this point, I would address the needs as follow:

1. Guards-Center-Right Tackle

2. Receiver

 

You cant fire Daboll just yet because you don't want to mess with Allen's development. I don't think coaching turnover works well for any young QBs benefit. If anything, it's probably detrimental. 

 

This week's offense though was beyond pathetic. The only 2 players making plays were Ivory and Shady. Allen tried his hardest too, but was obviously struggling.

 

I would like to see Ivory and Shady both on the field more often. I would also like to see Croom getting more looks.

 

They've got to get back to running the football, over and over, and over again. Establish some sort of a play action. I don't want Allen to get killed.

 

At any rate, the play calling was unimaginative this week. Didn't we see all sort of pre-snap motion in preseason? Especially in week 1 against the panthers? I don't recall seeing any of that yesterday.

 

And if you're gonna call a run play on 3rd and 2, like we did yesterday in the first series, then you better be 99.99% confident you can convert. They did not to our dismay. Shoulda done something more creative.

 

 

 

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

This is probably not a good choice of QB analogies, since Rodgers sat and learned for 3 years before starting in his 4th season.  Rivers again sat for 2 years, started his 3rd season.

 

And yes, even so, both had a couple stinkers their first year of play. 

 

Here we have a trifecta of worst possible cases: rookie QB, weak OL, weak receiving corps, and OC who is calling games like a novice.

 

 

I think that is one too many things for the rookie QB to be thinking about.  Benjamin isn't a rookie, if he stepped up he would have had position on the ball and the DB would have had to pull up or have the defenseless receiver rule zap him.  It was having the ball in his sights and nothing to stop him that had the DB charging in.

I always like your comments, Hapless.  Thanks.

 

I really hadn't thought about what would have happened had Benjamin come back for the ball.  Completion, probably, without the hit.  Still, among the things a QB must learn is to avoid putting his receivers in that kind of position.   

 

Problem is, of course, that Benjamin is very passive receiver.   He doesn't fight for the ball well, and he doesn't anticipate and fight off defenders.  Landry made a great, great catch in the end zone yesterday, and Antonio Brown had one last night.  In both cases they found the ball, reacted to the ball and attacked it to make the catch.  Other than the occasional jump ball, Benjamin doesn't outfight any for the ball.  

 

I do think, however, that Benjamin has been set back by his series of injuries.  I think in some ways he's like a rookie again, learning the pro game.  First couple of games he got up slowly from ordinary NFL hits, and he seemed to we wondering if anyone got the license number of the truck that ran him over.   I had the feeling yesterday that he's starting to realize that you have to be tough to play this game.  I thought it was a very good sign that he came back into the game after he got hit on the interception.  A wimp (which is what I've been worrying Benjamin is) would have told the trainers he didn't feel right and wouldn't have returned.   So kudos for him.   He wants to be out there, and if he wants to be out there, he'll improve.  

[VW82]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Here we have a trifecta of worst possible cases: rookie QB, weak OL, weak receiving corps, and OC who is calling games like a novice.

 

Food for thought. We put up 28 points in one half against what many considered to be one the best defenses in the NFL last year. Perhaps our OL, WRs, and OC aren't really that terrible? Perhaps they're just regular bad or even OK, and the difference is last week Allen played very well for one half, and this week he was awful. 

 

I'm sure the there were others on the offense that had off days, but it feels like we're going out of our way to pin Allen's really bad day on everyone else.  

Edited October 1, 2018 by VW82

[Shaw66]

15 minutes ago, VW82 said:

 

Food for thought. We put up 28 points in one half against what many considered to be one the best defenses in the NFL last year. Perhaps our OL, WRs, and OC aren't really that terrible? Perhaps they're just regular bad or even OK, and the difference is last week Allen played very well for one half, and this week he was awful. 

 

I'm sure the there were others on the offense that had off days, but it feels like we're going out of our way to pin Allen's really bad day on everyone else.  

I don't think Allen was the difference.  First, the Vikings may have had a good defense last season, but they're struggling this season.  22nd in yards and 22nd in points.  

 

Second, especially early in the season, you get these weird games where teams are mismatched for some reason.  Second half of the season, everyone knows what everyone else is doing, and these weird blowout upsets don't happen so often.  

 

Allen didn't have anyone to throw to against the Packers.  Probably the Packers game planned for the things the Bills had success with against the Vikes, and the Bills didn't do any effective counter-planning.   Plus, the Packers figured out where the weaknesses were in the Bills pass protection and exploited them, big time.   

 

Allen absolutely was a contributor to the bad day.  When things are going badly, rookie QBs have trouble responding effectively.   They know how to do only those things they were prepared to do, and not much else.   It's like a pitcher whose curve ball isn't working today.  A rookie is stuck with throwing a lousy curve ball; a veteran finds other ways to get batters out.  So Allen was certainly part of the problem.   But that's why I pin the problem mostly on Daboll.   He has to know that the Packers will adjust to what the Bills did in Minnesota, he has to figure out what those adjustments are likely to be, and he has to prepare Allen for that.   Allen wasn't prepared.  

 

 

[VW82]

35 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I don't think Allen was the difference.  First, the Vikings may have had a good defense last season, but they're struggling this season.  22nd in yards and 22nd in points.  

 

Second, especially early in the season, you get these weird games where teams are mismatched for some reason.  Second half of the season, everyone knows what everyone else is doing, and these weird blowout upsets don't happen so often.  

 

Allen didn't have anyone to throw to against the Packers.  Probably the Packers game planned for the things the Bills had success with against the Vikes, and the Bills didn't do any effective counter-planning.   Plus, the Packers figured out where the weaknesses were in the Bills pass protection and exploited them, big time.   

 

Allen absolutely was a contributor to the bad day.  When things are going badly, rookie QBs have trouble responding effectively.   They know how to do only those things they were prepared to do, and not much else.   It's like a pitcher whose curve ball isn't working today.  A rookie is stuck with throwing a lousy curve ball; a veteran finds other ways to get batters out.  So Allen was certainly part of the problem.   But that's why I pin the problem mostly on Daboll.   He has to know that the Packers will adjust to what the Bills did in Minnesota, he has to figure out what those adjustments are likely to be, and he has to prepare Allen for that.   Allen wasn't prepared.  

 

 

 

Good points about the Vikings D. I still think Allen made a ton of plays happen in that first half and as a result the rest of the offense looked fine.

 

I disagree with you about Daboll, and I think McD does too. In his presser today, he's talking about "multiple hands in the cookies jar" wrt to the sacks and the pressures, and the need for Josh to do a better job with pre-snap stuff so he isn't constantly putting the offense in bad situations. He's talking about the need for Josh to stay healthy in order to improve, and how a bunch of the hits he's taking fall on his shoulders. I have to think these coaches understand the position they've put this kid in, and are doing everything they can to prepare him for the games. Josh just did a bad job of executing the game plan this week, and didn't know when to audible at the line when the defense was lined up in a way that might successfully counter the play call. 

 

I'm back to agreeing with your earlier suggestion of having Daboll miked up in Allen's helmet. That doesn't work on the road due to noise, but it might work this week at home. Maybe that can be a one week teaching aid to help him "see" the pre-snap reads he needs to make, so he has a better idea of where to go with the ball right away.

 

I think Allen tanked the game in GB, and made everyone look worse than they were. Oline missed blocks because protections didn't get adjusted. Allen got sacked because he ran right into some of them. There were no dropped passes this game that I counted, just a bunch of wildly inaccurate throws. People question the lack of run game, but we were down and Packers were basically daring us to throw the ball. We couldn't, and that was the difference.    

Edited October 2, 2018 by VW82

[HappyDays]

They neutered Allen this week. After his hurdle I think they sat him down and said he can't use his legs that much. They need to let him play his style. I don't know why they took that away from him this week. The only QB draw came on a 2nd and long. Bad game for Daboll.

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, VW82 said:

 

Good points about the Vikings D. I still think Allen made a ton of plays happen in that first half and as a result the rest of the offense looked fine.

 

I disagree with you about Daboll, and I think McD does too. In his presser today, he's talking about "multiple hands in the cookies jar" wrt to the sacks and the pressures, and the need for Josh to do a better job with pre-snap stuff so he isn't constantly putting the offense in bad situations. He's talking about the need for Josh to stay healthy in order to improve, and how a bunch of the hits he's taking fall on his shoulders. I have to think these coaches understand the position they've put this kid in, and are doing everything they can to prepare him for the games. Josh just did a bad job of executing the game plan this week, and didn't know when to audible at the line when the defense was lined up in a way that might successfully counter the play call. 

 

I'm back to agreeing with your earlier suggestion of having Daboll miked up in Allen's helmet. That doesn't work on the road due to noise, but it might work this week at home. Maybe that can be a one week teaching aid to help him "see" the pre-snap reads he needs to make, so he has a better idea of where to go with the ball right away.

 

I think Allen tanked the game in GB, and made everyone look worse than they were. Oline missed blocks because protections didn't get adjusted. Allen got sacked because he ran right into some of them. There were no dropped passes this game that I counted, just a bunch of wildly inaccurate throws. People question the lack of run game, but we were down and Packers were basically daring us to throw the ball. We couldn't, and that was the difference.    

Wherebibrhink Daboll is falling down is preparing game plans that give a rookie QB better chances of success.  Plays where he justbakesnthe snap and throws it based on one simple read.  

 

Take the TD to Croom last week.  Take snap, fake to the flat and look deep. Throw deep or go back to the outlet in the flat.  Simple.  

 

Rookies need a regular diet of balls they can complete. 

 

I don't think Allen had a lot of wildly inaccurate throws.  He had a lot of throwaways.  He was doing what he had been told to do of the receiver wasn't as open they wanted.  Later in the game he wasn't wild.  He was taking more chances.  

[Hapless Bills Fan]

8 minutes ago, VW82 said:

Food for thought. We put up 28 points in one half against what many considered to be one the best defenses in the NFL last year. Perhaps our OL, WRs, and OC aren't really that terrible? Perhaps they're just regular bad or even OK, and the difference is last week Allen played very well for one half, and this week he was awful. 

 

I'm sure the there were others on the offense that had off days, but it feels like we're going out of our way to pin Allen's really bad day on everyone else.  

 

 

Is the Vikes D really "all that and a bag of chips" this year?  As the saying goes, that was then, this is now.  There are some early statistical hints they are not that good this year.

 

The WR are not as awful as some would have it.  There have been open guys on double handfuls of plays vs. Chargers, Vikes, Pack.    Sometimes they're not being identified.  The major problem I see is morale - some guys running lazy or slow routes because they don't think they'll get luuuuve, turning it into a self-fulfilling prophecy.  I would say regular bad.

 

The OL - Pass protection - it's there more than one would think by results - but there is often confusion or mis-called protections - unblocked defenders while elsewhere, three OL block 2 and a fourth stands there whistling "I ain't got no body".  And more than should happen we are getting beat even when we put 2-on-1.  We aren't good.  We might be OK except for the times when we're confused.  Run blocking looked like it had improved to "Bad" vs Minnesota.  I'm thinking all-22 is going to show me "horrid" again this week and I'm going to have multiple plays where I'm going "wtf was that supposed to be?"

 

Last week, I thought that Daboll called a very good game for Allen - it featured a lot of quick short passes to move the chains and put points on the board. 

 

That was then, this is now.   The Pack watch film.  They did a great job of taking a lot of those quick passes away and just daring us to find someone else.   There's a play where Shady splits R for the lateral and is immediately smothered like a blanket.  Allen is watching Shady all the way and clearly has no thought where to go with Shady blanketed.  Benjamin is open on the L with a clear throwing lane due to (AMAZING!) a successful chop by Dawkins.   Allen never looks that way. 

 

I think it's hard to sort out blame.  Can we go with, "plenty to go around"?  I felt it was a poorly crafted game plan by Daboll, as though after last week he said "f*** yeah!" and figured he could open the playbook and put in just anything instead of continuing to lead Allen along slowly.  Meanwhile the Pack were all "Josh Allen jumping over things, like hell you'll jump us at Lambeau like that, JUMP THIS rookie."  And who knows, maybe JA kept his party hat on a bit too long last week and needed a big 'ol "lot to learn" reality check.

 

I thought the whole team kind of came out flat.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, VW82 said:

I disagree with you about Daboll, and I think McD does too. In his presser today, he's talking about "multiple hands in the cookies jar" wrt to the sacks and the pressures, and the need for Josh to do a better job with pre-snap stuff so he isn't constantly putting the offense in bad situations. He's talking about the need for Josh to stay healthy in order to improve, and how a bunch of the hits he's taking fall on his shoulders. I have to think these coaches understand the position they've put this kid in, and are doing everything they can to prepare him for the games. Josh just did a bad job of executing the game plan this week, and didn't know when to audible at the line when the defense was lined up in a way that might successfully counter the play call. 

 

I don't read what McDermott said in his presser the same way at all.  When McDermott starts out saying "We’ve got to go and come up with a better plan than what we had yesterday, putting the players in a position to be successful. That’s where it starts" he's not exculpating Daboll for his great game plan that Allen failed to execute and praising him for doing everything they can to prepare Josh for the games.  Daboll sat down to play chess with Pettine and caught him a load of ass-whoop.  

 

You can't expect a rookie to be able to come to the line against a defense run by a master of disguise like Pettine/McCarthy and audible to the right choice.   He's just as likely to read what they want him to see and audible into their hands.   There have to be options built into the play boom boom boom.   Did Josh do a bad job of understanding and progressing through those options, or were the options that were there this week bad?  Probably some of both - in what I've seen so far there were sometimes options Josh didn't take, and I think he caught him a case of "Hero-Ball Boy".  But other times it didn't seem as though the plays were well designed for what Green Bay can do, or as though Daboll outsmarted himself and didn't leave check-downs.  I think Daboll watched some film from earlier this season in a couple games where they struggled, and underestimated them.

 

Likewise, the helmet radio thing - Daboll is almost certainly on the radio to Josh's helmet calling the plays.  The radio cuts off (I think) 15 seconds pre-snap.  Green Bay's D makes their living showing the QB one look, shifting to a second pre-snap, and whups! it's a disguise, they're really doing something else.