Bray Wyatt Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 2 minutes ago, Gugny said: Exactly. He played like a rookie yesterday. A rookie who was asked to pass way too much and thrust into a predictable offense way too early. He took a lot of hits and bounced back up every time. And he didn't quit. Onto the next game. I still dont know how we didnt run it more. I think we only had 11 rushes all game against the 26th rush defense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 Just now, Bray Wyatt said: I still dont know how we didnt run it more. I think we only had 11 rushes all game against the 26th rush defense It's been a mystery for 3 out of 4 games. The play calling makes it seem like Daboll thinks he has Drew !@#$ing Brees out there. It's atrocious. Allen had a bad game. The INT in the endzone changed the game from being 13-3 to being 16-0. I'm not here to make excuses for the kid - but goddamn - abandoning the run before the game even !@#$ing started didn't do him any favors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bray Wyatt Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 2 minutes ago, Gugny said: It's been a mystery for 3 out of 4 games. The play calling makes it seem like Daboll thinks he has Drew !@#$ing Brees out there. It's atrocious. Allen had a bad game. The INT in the endzone changed the game from being 13-3 to being 16-0. I'm not here to make excuses for the kid - but goddamn - abandoning the run before the game even !@#$ing started didn't do him any favors. Agreed on all of it. I wonder if they think having him pass more will speed up his development. It is the only thing I can think of as to why the play calling has been that way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleeby Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 I have said over the years that buffalo destroys young QBs. Seems to be a habit. I do also agree though that barring critical injury, this oline and WR problem should not ruin him.if we can fix it in the next year or two. I suspect it's us that gets to these QBs. Us includes press and fans. Buffalo is hard on them and lacking patience maybe. This kid and this mgmt staff need at least until then end of next season before all of this negative, start over talk. How can we expect to have nice things when we run everyone out of town? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boca BIlls Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 A QB can only be ruined if they were never meant to be QB in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo03 Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 (edited) I personally don't think a QB can be ruined. If Josh Allen is good enough, he will never be ruined Edited October 1, 2018 by Buffalo03 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 21 minutes ago, MAJBobby said: There are going to be games like yesterday in Allen’s growth. What you want to see is more positive games than negative by the end of the year. And hopefully by the end of a year a string of good to great games linked together. He wasnt good yesterday Good post. He is a rookie QB with three starts on an offense with, perhaps, the least talent in the NFL, under an offensive coordinator, who has not had a great track record in regard to success. Allen wasn't good yesterday. Some of it was on him, some of it was on the disaster of an offensive unit that surrounded him, and some of it was on a game plan that looked, shall we say, a bit challenged from a creative perspective. Allen is a tough kid, mentally and physically, with a high ceiling. Whether he reaches that potential or not will depend on a lot of factors; however, I don't think adversity, in any form on the field, is going to ruin him. This team is going to be what most of us expected it to be this year and, IMHO, it was always going to be primarily about finding their franchise guy and developing him. It is baptism by fire, and, at this point, it is what it is. There is a long way to go and none of us knows how it will turn out. Might as well relax and root, throughout the rest of the year, for him to develop into what this team needs him to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelchlsm Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 This place is where players careers die. Allen never had a chance, he'll be the next backup in Oakland in 5 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeHateMe Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 I have no idea what they are trying to do on offense. Zero identity. We are certainly not a running team.. Why don't we throw quick hitters, screens, hooks... anything to get the ball out quicker. Once you have some success with that, you run some play action and push the ball downfield against single man coverage. Allen has no chance in this offense with this level of talent around him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US Egg Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 2 hours ago, PeterDude said: But McDermott is a faith based coach, Pegula even said so! That has to count for something right? .... if that mattered to the Pegula's, then McDermott was hired for the wrong reasons and is in the wrong line of work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marv's Neighbor Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 We have been accused of "ruining" QB's going back to Losman, Edwards & EJ. Not sure who is ruining who, the QB's we select, or the coaching staff we hire. Hopefully the BILLS get this figured out, and make some corrections. On the bright side, we do have one win for this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fridge Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 7 hours ago, #34fan said: You draft a kid from a bottom-feeder conference who's know for his inaccuracy, THEN pair him up with a twice-failed OC, THEN put him behind possibly the worst O-line in football, armed with horrendous receivers... -Allen was DOA as far as I'm concerned... He never had a chance... The stench of this situation could linger around McBeane for a long time to come... Allen will be incredibly fortunate to escape this season without major injury. Thrice failed. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starrymessenger Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 I'm not saying that his baptism by fire will ruin him but I have a hard time seeing how this is good for his development. Andy Reid is said to be a QB whisperer and he sat PM for a year as he worked on mechanical issues that were seen as problems. Maybe he didn't have to and I get it that the Chiefs had a quality starter so it was perhaps a luxury they could afford. OTOH Reid also sat Donovan McNabb until later in his rookie year and all they had was Doug Pederson ahead of him. So it would seem that Reid prefers to marinade these guys before throwing them into the fire. In yesterday's telecast they said Coach had told them the night before that he was of the school of thought that says you can ruin a QB by starting him too early. If that's true I've got to think there is at least a disconnect between what the Bills believe and what they do. Earlier it was reported that when questioned about this Daboll said that the first thing they work on when Josh shows up in the morning is mechanical things and fundamentals. But given the demands on and off the field of in week game preparation I wonder if that gives him the time he really needs to work on these things. Developing good fundamentals is also absolutely essential to Allen's success. When he executes the basics properly, for an "inaccurate" QB he is deadly accurate (in a way that someone like EJ for example never was and that's why he's a better prospect). When he's running for his life is when he's inaccurate, even wildly so. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iinii Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 8 hours ago, Fadingpain said: Quarterbacks can't be ruined, for the 1,000th time. This has now been brought up in about 6 different threads. Josh Allen will rise to the level of his own ability, and stop there. How high that is remains to be seen. Would Brady be the GOAT if he was drafted by the Browns, Bills, Tampa Bay...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boca BIlls Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 18 minutes ago, iinii said: Would Brady be the GOAT if he was drafted by the Browns, Bills, Tampa Bay...... Yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 Fwiw all rookies lost yesterday http://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/283260/0-for-4-ugly-sunday-for-rookies-mayfield-darnold-rosen-allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87168 Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 3 hours ago, H2o said: This is incorrect as well. It's not due to poor offseason decisions. Their hands were tied due to dead cap. There was only so much money to spread around. Incognito losing his sh*t again then retiring, coupled with Wood's neck injury, and moving Glenn for draft capital made this OL what it is. Without that draft capital we don't get Allen and Edmunds. I would have spent the money they spent on Star other ways, but no one is going to agree with every move a FO makes. They brought in McCarron to be the bridge, but he didn't show much so they got a 5th for him. Steal by the FO. Peterman fooled everyone again and showed his true colors week 1. They were holding out hope from the 2nd year, 2nd rounder Zay Jones. They were hoping that Benjamin would step up and make some plays. Clay is still a decent receiving option. We still have Shady. I don't know what you expected, but Rookie QB's don't usually make All Pro their first season. You look for improvement mainly in recognizing defenses, manipulating the defense with their eyes, and how they operate in the pocket. The offensive gameplan against Minnesota was outstanding. Outside of that it has been pretty bad. He may sink in your opinion this year, but as long as you see improvemnt in the areas I already stated everyone should be encouraged. This offseason in 2019 will be the one they can actually start putting some pieces around him on the OL and at the skill positions. Like I said in other threads, I never expected much this year. I just want to see growth out of the young players. this team has not put Allen in any position to succeed. whether you'd like to point to the OL, the WRs, the OC...or even lack of mentor. all these factors are controlled by the front office, and they have failed Allen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boca BIlls Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 4 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said: Fwiw all rookies lost yesterday http://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/283260/0-for-4-ugly-sunday-for-rookies-mayfield-darnold-rosen-allen Mayfield and Rosen looked good though 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87168 Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 4 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said: Fwiw all rookies lost yesterday http://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/283260/0-for-4-ugly-sunday-for-rookies-mayfield-darnold-rosen-allen ha but all teams put points on the board, except... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenhigh Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 9 hours ago, Fadingpain said: Quarterbacks can't be ruined, for the 1,000th time. This has now been brought up in about 6 different threads. Josh Allen will rise to the level of his own ability, and stop there. How high that is remains to be seen. Just because you say something 1000 times doesn't make it true. Any people manager will tell you that all people develop differently. Some need to be coddled a bit before they can succeed, some need to brought along slowly, and some do better with just getting their butts dumped in the fire. Personally, I think Allen will be the latter. 9 hours ago, GunnerBill said: I generally think that is true, and EJ certainly wasn't ruined. But David Carr..... he might be the one example of a guy that was ruined. He got beaten up so bad his first year and a half he spent the rest of his career escaping from non existant pressure from clean pockets. I don't know David Carr would have been great.... but I know that he never had a chance the way his rookie year in Houston went. True. 5 hours ago, Gugny said: I've been waiting for a girl like you. So urgently. Urgent Urgent Urgent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Boca BIlls said: Mayfield and Rosen looked good though I had heard they "looked" good. None of the Comp % were great for any of them. 16-of-33 for Josh .48 % comp Allen’s reckless heave while being chased outside of the pocket 17-of-34 for Sam .50 % comp Despite heavy pressure from the Jacksonville front, Darnold managed to play his first interception-free game 21-for-41 for Baker .51 % comp Mayfield gave the Browns plenty of chances to win - Turnovers. Four of them. Three of which gave the Raiders 21 points 15-of-27 for Rosen .55 % comp Rosen looked capable in his first career start. I'd like to see the dropped ball #'s for each game .... 15 minutes ago, 87168 said: ha but all teams put points on the board, except... That they did. Edited October 1, 2018 by ShadyBillsFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott7975 Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 3 hours ago, MAJBobby said: Carr wasnt good anyway. Should I post one of Goff 4.0 sacks a game? Too and how did that ruin him? Goff didn't get ruined because he has the seasoned vet Sean Mannion to mentor him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All_Pro_Bills Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 3 hours ago, BananaB said: I’m more worried about the unit as a whole, way too much inexperience. Allen I think will be alright. He’s the only guy on offender who shows any promise right now. These young WRs need a decent veteran WRs infront of them. The pressure on Allen will continue until we find a guy who can play. Look at all the young WRs who make impacts throughout the league, they all have something common and it’s a experienced vet around them. And Kelvin Benjamin isn’t that vet, to be honest he should be used at a pass catching TE. Might be a way for him to improve his pay because he’s gonna be on the FA market a while after the Bills let him go. Absolutely, aside from Allen and Dawkins who would you want to see back as offensive starters in 2019? If Allen can make it though the season without any serious injury I'll be happy and it seems like he has the mental toughness to make it through. Right now we have an inexperienced rookie QB behind a atrocious offensive line with mediocre receivers. The question is with 10 draft choices and some $90M in cap space next off season can the front office put some better players around Allen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSHMEAB Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 4 hours ago, wppete said: I remember Tony Banks coming in for Carr during a game in Buffalo and looking like a competent NFL QB. David Carr was a bust. Excuses are for losers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
416BillsFan Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 I was convinced Allen was the wrong Josh picked after the draft, but his attitude has been a bright spot this year. I won't pretend his performance was anything other than a turd yesterday, but he seems coachable and willing to keep on working and trying. He'll end up being good - or bad - or average, but it won't be because he was thrown into the fire early this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 Some QBs can be ruined. If a kid comes into the league with sound mechanics and a good handle on the mental side of the game, then it’s almost impossible to ruin him. Getting him badly injured is about it. But a QB who needs work on mechanics and/or has trouble with processing progressions, reading defenses, etc. then that player needs to sit and correct all of that before playing meaningful minutes. Allen needs corrections/improvements on both. Id much rather he work on mechanics relating to his accuracy and learn the mental side of the game for a year. That’s not in the cards obviously, so he’s got an uphill battle. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 2 hours ago, ShadyBillsFan said: I had heard they "looked" good. None of the Comp % were great for any of them. 16-of-33 for Josh .48 % comp Allen’s reckless heave while being chased outside of the pocket 17-of-34 for Sam .50 % comp Despite heavy pressure from the Jacksonville front, Darnold managed to play his first interception-free game 21-for-41 for Baker .51 % comp Mayfield gave the Browns plenty of chances to win - Turnovers. Four of them. Three of which gave the Raiders 21 points 15-of-27 for Rosen .55 % comp Rosen looked capable in his first career start. I'd like to see the dropped ball #'s for each game .... That they did. Can't comment for the others I haven't watched the Browns or Jets games yet.... but both Joshes had drops. The Arizona wide receivers would be every bit as bad as ours but for Larry Fitz.... and even he had an inexplicable drop across the middle yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foreigner Posted October 1, 2018 Author Share Posted October 1, 2018 The big knock on Tyrod Taylor was he was not a pocket passer. That is what will happen to Josh Allen if he has to run out of the pocket as defensive lineman bear down on him all the time. Also, defenses, the more they see on film, the more they know his tendencies, and how to beat him. He is not game ready, and a lot of these young hot shot QBs performances will quickly diminish. Sam Darnold, after his beat down of the Lions in game #1 was called a star. His next 3 games have been bad. This is the big boys league, and there are lot smarter people on opposing teams than great rookie QBs. Some people are calling for Patrick Mahomes to be a hall of famer. He has been great, but 3 games is too small a sample. He may be a all time great, but 3 games is not a career, and what he sat and learned last year can't be duplicated by rookie QBs who suffer growing pains, and how rookies succeed depend more than on talent. It is coaching and organizational acumen. Jim Kelley was more than a rookie coming to the Bills, Josh Allen is a rookie.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 5 hours ago, 87168 said: this team has not put Allen in any position to succeed. whether you'd like to point to the OL, the WRs, the OC...or even lack of mentor. all these factors are controlled by the front office, and they have failed Allen. And like I said, their hands were tied by dead cap. You can't make moves with money you don't have. Would you rather have 16 games of Peterman or have Allen in the learning on the fly? They need to scheme better, bottomline. The Minnesota gameplan was perfect. Shady needs more touches. A ground game that is working is his best friend. They need to have balance. He's not being ruined by any means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 14 minutes ago, H2o said: And like I said, their hands were tied by dead cap. You can't make moves with money you don't have. Would you rather have 16 games of Peterman or have Allen in the learning on the fly? They need to scheme better, bottomline. The Minnesota gameplan was perfect. Shady needs more touches. A ground game that is working is his best friend. They need to have balance. He's not being ruined by any means. ...DEAD ON assessment...nicely done...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 7 hours ago, Marv's Neighbor said: We have been accused of "ruining" QB's going back to Losman, Edwards & EJ. Not sure who is ruining who, the QB's we select, or the coaching staff we hire. Hopefully the BILLS get this figured out, and make some corrections. On the bright side, we do have one win for this season. Losman and EJ were grossly overdrafted.Both coulda been had rounds later.Typical idiot Bills. Edwards threw a beautiful checkdown and a nice creampuff buttonhook 20 yards downfield...Until the concussions.Then he couldnt even do those things right. With 4th down and game he would throw the ball away or run out of bounds.It became bizarre. The Bills organization for the last 18 yrs has excelled in ineptness at QB. Allen is very very rough at this point..But he at least has a winner mentality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VW82 Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 16 hours ago, Fadingpain said: Quarterbacks can't be ruined, for the 1,000th time. This has now been brought up in about 6 different threads. Josh Allen will rise to the level of his own ability, and stop there. How high that is remains to be seen. Yes because people are all robots and are immune to the effects of non-stop adversity. Good point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsMafia828 Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 9 hours ago, TheElectricCompany said: Ruined? No, but I think his development stalls out if you don't get some pieces around him. Exactly, 10 draft picks and $90m in cap space will help. We have not had a front office that has been willing to stay the course. The pressure is on next year, but I am confident McBean have a plan to surround our young talent with skilled position players. Baltimore seems to be fairing ok with a completely retooled receiving corp. I am a fan, I have been it for the long haul. I am excited about the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foreigner Posted October 2, 2018 Author Share Posted October 2, 2018 You are right about Shady. He is one of the premier running backs in all of football, although you wouldn't know it if you came on the scene recently. Maybe it wouldn't make a difference if he got more touches because Santa Clause couldn't get through to deliver if he had this OL trying to open a space. If they don't know football 101 that the run game or the threat of a run game opens it up for the pass game, then something is clearly wrong. The Minnesota game plan never had to be used because that team came on the field acting like they just closed every bar in the State. The fumbles and horrid play of the Vikings was a aberration, as they almost beat the undefeated Rams the past week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
familykwi Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 21 hours ago, Bills Pimpin' said: I'll just go ahead and call you a troll instead of trying to respond to this nonsensical take on the situation. You have no clue. So what would your intelligent response be? I'm not defending the original post, but just saying someone else is dumb is just plain lazy. Demonstrate your argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foreigner Posted October 8, 2018 Author Share Posted October 8, 2018 If Tyrod ever had a game with 79 yards passing, there would have been 20 negative threads about it. Allen gets a pass? Of course he should, because he is not ready. There was a story today about bringing in another ex Panther to mentor him. Another Benjamin maybe? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teef Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 1 minute ago, Foreigner said: If Tyrod ever had a game with 79 yards passing, there would have been 20 negative threads about it. Allen gets a pass? Of course he should, because he is not ready. There was a story today about bringing in another ex Panther to mentor him. Another Benjamin maybe? i think the glaring difference, as others have mentioned, is that taylor has been in the league for years, and allen for months. we know the taylor has peaked, but allen has a very long way to go. i don't think anyone is giving allen a pass, but some are smart enough to use patience. we just need to see a gradual progression of allen over the next year or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foreigner Posted October 8, 2018 Author Share Posted October 8, 2018 The idea is to win games, however it is done. Winning 13-12 boring games is better than losing 50-45. If Jim Kelley was healthy enough, and wanted to do it, Allen could learn more from him than possibly anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teef Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 7 minutes ago, Foreigner said: The idea is to win games, however it is done. Winning 13-12 boring games is better than losing 50-45. If Jim Kelley was healthy enough, and wanted to do it, Allen could learn more from him than possibly anyone. i agree. even if he isn't a big part of it statistically, i think it's important for allen to be a part of those wins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foreigner Posted October 15, 2018 Author Share Posted October 15, 2018 I guess it is time to revisit this topic again from a week ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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