GunnerBill Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 (edited) 6 hours ago, buffaloboyinATL said: I disagree. He will be a red zone/3rd down threat for someone. Can’t run routes but he CAN catch. His drop rate was very high last year. In fact over the last 3 years his BEST catch % is 52.3%. Edited September 29, 2018 by GunnerBill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Process Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 Dez could be the first guy to realize it's over and retire at half time.....oh wait... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmur66 Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 Just what the Bills need. Another threat to retire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pbomb Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 8 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said: They did? They were not much of a factor from what I remember. It was mostly Brian Daboll, Leslie Frazier, Josh Allen, and the defense. I remember the same. kb dropping a couple, fosters big drop, while a tougher catch clay also drop one in the end zone. Not sure 4-5 drops in one game qualifies as good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 First, you’re not going to get flamed. It’s a reasonable question and welcome to the board. Don’t be a stranger. second, McD and Beane do not gel with Dez. He’s the type of guy we’ve been purging since they came into Buffalo. The WR in my opinion played a better game, not a great game last week. It’s the same reason we didn’t bring in Gordon who is at this time far more talented than Dez. i know on paper it sounds like a good idea, I just don’t see it happen. Again, welcome to the board and don’t worry about everyone. Heck I’ve been flamed more than a few times, but probably deserving. No one means anything by it, just simply. Disagreeing with an opinion about our beloved Bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 7 hours ago, KD in CA said: Dez is not the kind of playmate you want for your new rookie QB, even if he might be a little bigger, stronger and faster than some of the current guys. ....not to mention the Almighty Jerry kicked him to the curb......a Cowgirls rarity......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 8 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: That wasn’t my premise at all. I just question the OP’s assertions - I don’t think the WR performance is quite as dire as he believes. Doesn’t mean it’s good I think they’re not interested in Dez because they’re not interested in his combination of current skills, salary demands, and personality. When you have the worst WR unit in the league....it’s dire. No? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wppete Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 Dez is a head case, stay away from him. We need a speed receiver that can actually catch the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlayoffsPlease Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 9 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Yes, they did. I don’t think Brian Daboll caught many passes from Allen, and I’m quite sure Allen caught none from himself. Did Allen play like his hair was on fire, gain yards and score TDs yes. Did the WR and TE contribute? Also yes. The WRs were terrible against Minnesota. They dropped 3 easy catches. As percentages go, that is horrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US Egg Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 "Before I get flamed, this is my first post and a WR question" You won't get flamed as long as you don't lightheartedly combine jokes about politics with sports in here. .....that gets some in here panties in a bunch as I have recently found out and have been dutifully warned and put on some sort of probation for doing so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLTbills Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 10 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said: Dez is looking for a very specific team and I don't think it's Buffalo. He was reported to have been "very close" to signing a deal with the Browns. And tuhrod was the QB at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMF2006 Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 1 hour ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ....not to mention the Almighty Jerry kicked him to the curb......a Cowgirls rarity......... He did it to TO. First he overpays them Then JJ asks them to take a pay cut when they refuse they get cut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsredneck1 Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 (edited) 10 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said: Dez is looking for a very specific team and I don't think it's Buffalo. end thread......but welcome aboard op Edited September 29, 2018 by billsredneck1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlbillsfan1975 Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 I just don’t see it. McDermott gets the most out of his guys. Dez has not come across as the type of guy who buys into the bigger picture. It’s about making Dez happy, McDermott is about the team working together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_In_NH Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 10 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said: Dez is looking for a very specific team and I don't think it's Buffalo. Dez has overplayed his hand greatly. The reasons Dallas moved on were because he is a head case and was late/no show to meetings. He is not a good fit in buffalo at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoHuddleKelly12 Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 10 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Well, first off - I think one reason the Bills won in Minn a week ago was that the WR stepped up. Overall the team’s drop percentage is still high because of their awful performance in Baltimore, but they weren’t that bad last week - 11 of 17 for the WR/TE. Second, I’m not sure what we need on the team is a narcissistic sociopathic ego driven head case, even if he is a better WR than any we’ve got. Bills went down that road with the one year rental Terrell Owens, and that was before the pushups in his driveway or flexing in a home gym next to the Koi pond with choppers buzzing overhead like it was the OJ slow roll (ok, the koi pond is taking some dramatic liberties) but he was already a head case himself before the Russ Brandon/Jauronimo (love that moniker on this board) regime brought him in for 2009. Anyone remember that year? Jauronimo was mercifully axed halfway through and Fewell started his forgettable run. TO was still able to put up decent numbers for what he was at that point in his career though. Legend Led the league Bold Career high Year Team Games Receiving G GS Rec Yards Avg Long TD 1996 SF 16 10 35 520 14.9 46T 4 1997 SF 16 15 60 936 15.6 56T 8 1998 SF 16 10 67 1,097 16.4 79T 14 1999 SF 14 14 60 754 12.6 36 4 2000 SF 14 13 97 1,451 15.0 69T 13 2001 SF 16 16 93 1,412 15.4 60T 16 2002 SF 14 14 100 1,300 13.0 76T 13 2003 SF 15 15 80 1,102 13.8 75T 9 2004 PHI 14 14 77 1,200 15.6 59T 14 2005 PHI 7 7 47 763 16.2 91T 6 2006 DAL 16 15 85 1,180 13.9 56T 13 2007 DAL 15 15 81 1,355 16.7 52T 15 2008 DAL 16 16 69 1,052 15.2 75T 10 2009 BUF 16 16 55 829 15.1 98T 5 2010 CIN 14 11 72 983 13.7 78T 9 Career 219 201 1,078 15,934 14.8 98T 153 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mountain Man Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 How do we know Dez hasn't already been brought in for a workout? Teams work out players every week, the details of whom rarely get reported. There is every chance he has already worked out and not signed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 2 hours ago, Pbomb said: I remember the same. kb dropping a couple, fosters big drop, while a tougher catch clay also drop one in the end zone. Not sure 4-5 drops in one game qualifies as good Agreed. Their collective impact was more negative than positive with the drop issue still showing up too often on routine catches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 1 hour ago, NewEra said: When you have the worst WR unit in the league....it’s dire. No? Well, the OP started out with " they can't seem to run quick slants without dropping balls or mistiming routes. " In fact, in the last week and a half, I've seen basic routes run without dropping balls and mistiming routes. Been watching all-22, starting with the run plays (aside: you want dire - look at the run blocking esp v. Chargers) but sliding in to the pass plays. Vs Chargers, the main problem was Allen not progressing through his reads, there were guys open. Last week, he saw more of these but still left plays on the field. Our WR aren't world beaters, but they were being schemed open more often than not. That horrid muffed flip pass (called a fumble) by RayRay was run beautifully by Foster against the Chargers. Doesn't mean they might not be the worst WR unit in the league, just means not quite as dire as being unable to run a quick slant or correctly timed route. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 5 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said: I'n certainly not. Not one key play to determine the outcome of the game was made by a WR last Sunday: Watch Buffalo Bills vs. Minnesota Vikings [09/23/2018] - NFL.com I'm talking strictly WRs while you keep mentioning TEs to buttress your argument. The WR group produced 8 catches for 81 yards as a whole. You may not believe you are being "ornery", but when you take a premise like "not as dire as that" or "one reason we won is that the WR stepped up" (from what to what, not specified.. I meant from their performance in previous games)....then you change it to "not much of a factor".....then when it's pointed out that WR did contribute you change again to "not a primary factor" then again to "not one key play to determine the outcome of the game" - Yeah, you're either being deliberately obtuse, or ornery for the sake of being ornery. Maybe you're doing it without being aware of what you're doing. Maybe it's habit. It's something that helps some people feel as though they've won arguments, when really the other party in the discussion just rolls their eyes and walks on. WR/TE, welcome to the modern era where TE are fundamentally asked to run routes and contribute like WR. Line up like a WR, run routes like a WR, get counted as a WR to me. But in any event, go look at the play by play for yourself, erase those 8 catches, and ask how the game would have differed. If Andre Holmes doesn't make that goal line-grab that set up the JA dive for our 2nd TD? If Benjamin doesn't make a grab to put us back in FG range on 3-20 and set up our 2nd FG? I repeat: one reason we won is that the WR stepped up. Doesn't mean they're great. Doesn't mean they didn't leave plays on the field. But they made some tough catches that helped the team score. When you turn it into "not one key play" and "not a primary factor" whatever that means to you - you're arguing with yourself, because you're twisting what I said to suit ya. Ornery. (or maybe just obtuse, but giving the benefit of the doubt here). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: You may not believe you are being "ornery", but when you take a premise like "not as dire as that" or "one reason we won is that the WR stepped up" (from what to what, not specified.. I meant from their performance in previous games)....then you change it to "not much of a factor".....then when it's pointed out that WR did contribute you change again to "not a primary factor" then again to "not one key play to determine the outcome of the game" - Yeah, you're either being deliberately obtuse, or ornery for the sake of being ornery. Maybe you're doing it without being aware of what you're doing. Maybe it's habit. It's something that helps some people feel as though they've won arguments, when really the other party in the discussion just rolls their eyes and walks on. WR/TE, welcome to the modern era where TE are fundamentally asked to run routes and contribute like WR. Line up like a WR, run routes like a WR, get counted as a WR to me. But in any event, go look at the play by play for yourself, erase those 8 catches, and ask how the game would have differed. If Andre Holmes doesn't make that goal line-grab that set up the JA dive for our 2nd TD? If Benjamin doesn't make a grab to put us back in FG range on 3-20 and set up our 2nd FG? I repeat: one reason we won is that the WR stepped up. Doesn't mean they're great. Doesn't mean they didn't leave plays on the field. But they made some tough catches that helped the team score. When you turn it into "not one key play" and "not a primary factor" whatever that means to you - you're arguing with yourself, because you're twisting what I said to suit ya. Ornery. (or maybe just obtuse, but giving the benefit of the doubt here). It's neither onery nor obtuse no matter how much you repeat it. After Ray Ray McCloud's catch for six yards on the 1st play of the game. Benjamin dropped a throw from Allen that caused the Bills to settle for a FG instead of having 1st and goal. Holmes was the only other WR who made a catch (3 yrds) until after the score was 24-0 in favor of the Bills. Stepped up? They were barely a factor. Nice try on trying to expand the definition of a WR so you can include TEs. Edited September 29, 2018 by 26CornerBlitz 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FearLess Price Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 Kb is a TE masquerading as a WR. It is what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 Just now, FearLess Price said: Kb is a TE masquerading as a WR. It is what it is. Have you seen him block? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FearLess Price Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 Just now, 26CornerBlitz said: Have you seen him block? He doesnt even know what block means. Kb is trash. Just now, 26CornerBlitz said: Have you seen him block? I didnt say he was a good TE its a testament to how God awful slow he is 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 12 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said: Dez is looking for a very specific team and I don't think it's Buffalo. Dez may not have a desire to play for Buffalo but the bigger issue is whether McDermott would have any interest in a very faded player with a volatile personality? I doubt it. One of the major liabilities in the receiving corps is that their wideouts can't get open. Dez, especially at this end stage of his career, isn't elusive enough as a receiver. Why add a receiver with an attribute that accentuates that same weakness that the unit has? Dez is a very volatile and emotional player who acts out when he is not involved in the action. What the wrestling coach doesn't want on his roster is a player too often on the verge of exploding when things are not going well for him or the offense. I'm not suggesting that Dez is a bad person but it would no make sense for this organization to have any interest in him, even accepting the fact that he probably has little interest in Buffalo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 10 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said: Have you seen him block? When you're Right, you're Right. KB is a WR cuz no sane GM would try him at TE 8 minutes ago, JohnC said: Dez may not have a desire to play for Buffalo but the bigger issue is whether McDermott would have any interest in a very faded player with a volatile personality? I doubt it. One of the major liabilities in the receiving corps is that their wideouts can't get open. Dez, especially at this end stage of his career, isn't elusive enough as a receiver. Why add a receiver with an attribute that accentuates that same weakness that the unit has? Dez is a very volatile and emotional player who acts out when he is not involved in the action. What the wrestling coach doesn't want on his roster is a player too often on the verge of exploding when things are not going well for him or the offense. I'm not suggesting that Dez is a bad person but it would no make sense for this organization to have any interest in him, even accepting the fact that he probably has little interest in Buffalo. I thought the OP summarized Dez very succinctly: " I personally think the guy is an narcissistic, sociopathic, ego driven head case " That being so, at his prime his skill level was high enough for coaches and GMs to deal with his crap. At his current level of fading skills and 50% catch, well, he's a narcissistic sociopathic ego driven WR whose skill level no longer outweighs his baggage. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cripple Creek Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 I believe that all we need to do is give Robert Foster a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Well, the OP started out with " they can't seem to run quick slants without dropping balls or mistiming routes. " In fact, in the last week and a half, I've seen basic routes run without dropping balls and mistiming routes. Been watching all-22, starting with the run plays (aside: you want dire - look at the run blocking esp v. Chargers) but sliding in to the pass plays. Vs Chargers, the main problem was Allen not progressing through his reads, there were guys open. Last week, he saw more of these but still left plays on the field. Our WR aren't world beaters, but they were being schemed open more often than not. That horrid muffed flip pass (called a fumble) by RayRay was run beautifully by Foster against the Chargers. Doesn't mean they might not be the worst WR unit in the league, just means not quite as dire as being unable to run a quick slant or correctly timed route. Our WR unit is in dire need of talent. That is an absolute fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crowing Rooster Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 16 minutes ago, FearLess Price said: He doesnt even know what block means. Kb is trash. Oh he knows what it MEANS. He just doesn't want to put his body on the line that way. I think right now, KB is really just not that into football. He wants to play for a team where he'll be schemed open - like Croom on that TD - and have a top-quality QB throw him laser target balls he just has to throw his hands up to catch. The problem is, to scheme a guy open you need to sell the defense he's doing something other than what they think he's gonna do. He needs to sell them a different route than he's really running. He needs to sell them he's out there to block when he's really the target. KB lacks sales skills either way. He doesn't have the moves to fake out a defender then the speed to go somewhere else. No sane defender who's watched his film would believe he's out there as a blocker. And even the very best most accurate QB make off-platform throws under pressure, where the ball hits the WR zip code, and they need their guys to adjust. KB was drafted to be a big target with a big catch radius who can make those adjustments and haul in the high degree of difficulty, contested balls. He does seem to want to get paid, so hopefully McDermott knows the way into his head to explain that the path to plentitude is through Doing His Job. 11 minutes ago, Cripple Creek said: I believe that all we need to do is give Robert Foster a chance. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formerly Allan in MD Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 12 hours ago, Boca BIlls said: Just find it odd the Patriots who are bringing in ever single WR they can haven't touched him. I sign want him to retire if he doesnt get the targets. Belichik knows what he's doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 19 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: When you're Right, you're Right. KB is a WR cuz no sane GM would try him at TE I thought the OP summarized Dez very succinctly: " I personally think the guy is an narcissistic, sociopathic, ego driven head case " That being so, at his prime his skill level was high enough for coaches and GMs to deal with his crap. At his current level of fading skills and 50% catch, well, he's a narcissistic sociopathic ego driven WR whose skill level no longer outweighs his baggage. There were teams that were interested in him prior to the season. Both Baltimore and Cleveland were seriously interested in him with (if memory is correct) Baltimore giving him an offer that he declined. I have no doubt that the interested teams know exactly what they would be getting from a playing and personality standpoint. He's far from being an under the radar player with unknown traits. Is Dez a narcissistic and ego driven player? Yes. But that doesn't distinguish him from many athletes in pro sports. On the other hand when described with a word such as sociopathic then that is a pejorative term that I'm not willing to associate with him. That would be grossly unfair. My sense of the Dez situation is that by waiting for what he considered to be the best situation for himself he put himself in a position where he may end up being left out this season. Did he miscalculate or did his hesitation to make a decision be a reflection of his actual interest in playing any more? Only he can answer that question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FearLess Price Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Oh he knows what it MEANS. He just doesn't want to put his body on the line that way.. KB was drafted to be a big target with a big catch radius who can make those adjustments and haul in the high degree of difficulty, contested balls. He does seem to want to get paid, so hopefully McDermott knows the way into his head to explain that the path to plentitude is through Doing His Job. My comment was more about his speed. His blocking is non existent. He wishes he was bob woods. I actually do think Foster can be really good in a year or 2. He gets good seperation jus needs better hands and ball tracing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 (edited) 13 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Yes, they did. I don’t think Brian Daboll caught many passes from Allen, and I’m quite sure Allen caught none from himself. Did Allen play like his hair was on fire, gain yards and score TDs yes. Did the WR and TE contribute? Also yes. TEs and RBs contributed a lot to the passing game. WRs continued their trend of dropping passes. We lead the league in dropped passes, and that's only including a couple from Kelvin Benjamin because many of his drops were deemed contested (the exact passes that he is supposed to be making). I think they need to step up a lot and make tough, contested catches sometimes, especially Benjamin. I don't think anyone can logically claim that they have been playing well. Edited September 29, 2018 by MJS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 1 minute ago, MJS said: TEs and RBs contributed a lot to the passing game. WRs continued their trend of dropping passes. We lead the league in dropped passes, and that's only including a couple from Kelvin Benjamin because many of his drops were deemed contested (the exact passes that he is supposed to be making). I think they need to step up a lot and make tough, contested catches sometimes, especially Benjamin. I don't think anyone can logically claim that they have been playing well. The two biggest and most impactful plays in the passing game were made by Ivory and Croom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Duffy Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 3 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said: The two biggest and most impactful plays in the passing game were made by Ivory and Croom. This is correct. Been disappointed in the WR play thus far. They have to get their **** together and hope it starts tomorrow. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 4 hours ago, JMF2006 said: He did it to TO. First he overpays them Then JJ asks them to take a pay cut when they refuse they get cut ...the pay cut is to cover the increased day care costs for these divas............ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sky Diver Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 2 hours ago, Cripple Creek said: I believe that all we need to do is give Robert Foster a chance. Agreed. They need to get him more involved in the offense with bubble screens and jet sweeps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 2 minutes ago, Sky Diver said: Agreed. They need to get him more involved in the offense with bubble screens and jet sweeps. ...sure he has speed, but "bomb or nothin'" won't help him learn hand/eye coordination. Shorten things up and see if he can improve/grow his confidence IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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