Bills “Big Nickel” package is a Big Fail

[YoloinOhio]

https://buffalonews.com/2018/09/21/bills-forced-into-big-nickel-vs-chargers-and-the-personnel-package-flops-again/

The numbers for big nickel through two games are brutal. Rivers, Joe Flacco and Lamar Jackson combined to complete 31 of 36 passes (86.1 percent) for 336 yards (9.3 yards per attempt) and four touchdowns through the air. That equates to a quarterback rating of 133.3.

During many of Bush's snaps, the Bills utilized a 3-3-5 nickel defense with three down linemen, three linebackers and five defensive backs (three of which were safeties, technically making it big nickel).

In the first two games against regular nickel, Rivers, Flacco, and Jackson combined to go 8 of 15 (53.3 percent) for 68 yards (4.5 yards per attempt) with two touchdowns and a quarterback rating of 105.5.

With cornerback Ryan Lewis called up from the practice squad, the Bills will have the opportunity to run more classic nickel defense in Week Three against the Vikings.

 

 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

Maybe they should go to a plug nickel formation 

 

 ? 

[JerseyBills]

Damn. Thought Busy was going to be a nice under the radar signing. Hopefully they can work out the kinks 

[Augie]

2 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

Maybe they should go to a plug nickel formation 

 

 ? 

 

...or pull the plug on the big nickel???

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

4 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

Maybe they should go to a plug nickel formation 

 

 ? 

 

...two bits!!.............

[YoloinOhio]

1 minute ago, JerseyBills said:

Damn. Thought Busy was going to be a nice under the radar signing. Hopefully they can work out the kinks 

Rachel Bush > Rafael Bush??

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

19 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Rachel Bush > Rafael Bush??

...choose your Bush.....we're waiting...............

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

numbers change any in the 2nd half last week?  seemed the D made some adjustments.

[GunnerBill]

I am not sure the Bills are really running big nickel. They are running traditional nickel but have so few corners they are lining a safety up at the nickel spot. But that safety is trying to play a traditional nickel role they are not being utilised to closer to the line of scrimmage or being asked to read and react and play run support in the way I would usually associate with a big nickel package. It is just a safety being asked to do a job he doesn't have the short area quickness for and getting exposed because we have no corners. 

[YoloinOhio]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

I am not sure the Bills are really running big nickel. They are running traditional nickel but have so few corners they are lining a safety up at the nickel spot. But that safety is trying to play a traditional nickel role they are not being utilised to closer to the line of scrimmage or being asked to read and react and play run support in the way I would usually associate with a big nickel package. It is just a safety being asked to do a job he doesn't have the short area quickness for and getting exposed because we have no corners. 

That definitely happened last week . Hopefully Gaines and Johnson will play this week. And we don’t need to worry about the corpse of Vontae and will be fielding an actual player at corner. 

Edited September 21, 2018 by YoloinOhio

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

That definitely happened last week 

 

Happened after Taron Johnson went out week 1 too. 

[ctk232]

15 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

I am not sure the Bills are really running big nickel. They are running traditional nickel but have so few corners they are lining a safety up at the nickel spot. But that safety is trying to play a traditional nickel role they are not being utilised to closer to the line of scrimmage or being asked to read and react and play run support in the way I would usually associate with a big nickel package. It is just a safety being asked to do a job he doesn't have the short area quickness for and getting exposed because we have no corners. 

Exactly - the problem is it still is a big nickel package regardless of how you run it. While you make an important distinction there, the media have no clue, nor do they care to pay mind to how it's run either.

[nedboy7]

It’s a rebuild year so makes sense to play stupid coverages. 

[1st Ammendment NoMas]

3-3-5 with this team is a recipe for disaster. We need to get to the QB. That means you can't rush 3 guys and drop 8 into a zone. That's foolish. No wonder we got scorched.

[H2o]

We definitely need 4 down lineman in our defense. With no pass rush both Flacco and Rivers looked like All Pro's against us. Things changed when McDermott took over the play calling in the 2nd half. We need to stick with that. 

[3rdand12]

8 minutes ago, H2o said:

We definitely need 4 down lineman in our defense. With no pass rush both Flacco and Rivers looked like All Pro's against us. Things changed when McDermott took over the play calling in the 2nd half. We need to stick with that. 

If the secondary can hold up. Frazier played safer ball it seems , due to thinning of the secondary? McD was taking some risks rushing. It worked. But can he trust who is lining up back there to play tight and disciplined ?

Edited September 21, 2018 by 3rdand12

[H2o]

6 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

If the secondary can hold up. Frazier played safer ball it seems , due to thinning of the secondary? McD was taking some risks rushing. It worked. But can he trust who is lining up back there to play tight and disciplined ?

Seemed to work last year with basically the same personnel, minus Brown and Gaines of course. The attacking style fits us better. 

[3rdand12]

12 minutes ago, H2o said:

Seemed to work last year with basically the same personnel, minus Brown and Gaines of course. The attacking style fits us better. 

I agree about the attacking aggressive style fitting. But the secondary has turned over their depth in a big way.  Second string rookies. and Live fire.
 patience might be considered here.

 When Edmunds develops more patience and better reads the game , the Defense will improve front to back.

 But perhaps you are right. Get after it football !

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

Dick Jauron never would have let the team run out of corners 

[vincec]

1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said:

That definitely happened last week . Hopefully Gaines and Johnson will play this week. And we don’t need to worry about the corpse of Vontae and will be fielding an actual player at corner. 

It happened in the first half. I think the struggles may have more to do with execution that personnel groupings.

8 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Dick Jauron never would have let the team run out of corners 

Now you know why! You can't have too many corners.

Edited September 21, 2018 by vincec

[dpberr]

Zone sucks in basketball.

 

It equally sucks in football.  The quiick, accurate quarterbacks of today shred the hell out of a zone scheme like Tampa 2. Too many little gaps an experienced QB will find.

 

I know it's been a while since Jim Schwartz was here but his man coverage scheme is the opposite. The man coverage buys the time for your rush to get home.

 

 

 

[YoloinOhio]

5 minutes ago, dpberr said:

Zone sucks in basketball.

 

It equally sucks in football.  The quiick, accurate quarterbacks of today shred the hell out of a zone scheme like Tampa 2. Too many little gaps an experienced QB will find.

 

I know it's been a while since Jim Schwartz was here but his man coverage scheme is the opposite. The man coverage buys the time for your rush to get home.

 

 

 

Rex also ran man coverage. With the linemen.

[vincec]

9 minutes ago, dpberr said:

Zone sucks in basketball.

 

It equally sucks in football.  The quiick, accurate quarterbacks of today shred the hell out of a zone scheme like Tampa 2. Too many little gaps an experienced QB will find.

 

I know it's been a while since Jim Schwartz was here but his man coverage scheme is the opposite. The man coverage buys the time for your rush to get home.

 

 

 

Schwartz runs a combination of man and zone. Rex Ryan ran a lot more man to man that Schwartz ever did and that didn't work out to well.

[YoloinOhio]

Just now, vincec said:

Schwartz runs a combination of man and zone. Rex Ryan ran a lot more man to man that Schwartz ever did and that didn't work out to well.

Rex didn’t believe in “safety help”

[Happy]

1 hour ago, BillsRdue said:

3-3-5 with this team is a recipe for disaster. We need to get to the QB. That means you can't rush 3 guys and drop 8 into a zone. That's foolish. No wonder we got scorched.

 

Exactly.  This defense through the first six quarters reminds me of Rex's defense.  Rush three, everyone else cover, and put more pressure on the DBs.  It makes no sense.  A strong pass rush will force the QB to make mistakes, take sacks, and get rid of the ball before he's ready to.  A good pass rush will make a mediocre secondary look good.  Not sure why some of these coaches like to get so cute in their schemes.  Look at how the Giants beat the Pats* in two SBs, it wasn't by putting more pressure on the DB's which Brady would have shredded.

[BuffaloBillyG]

2 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

Rachel Bush > Rafael Bush??

Both have more career rushing yards as a Bill than Reggie Bush. 

[Comebackkid]

More like the wooden nickel

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

The thing is, I like the Big Nickel. But with our scheme, I have zero idea why we are going to a 3-3-5 when we are far better suited to a 4-2-5.

 

I thought the whole point was to get Alexander out of SLB, and onto the line. You get a safety to pair off against TE and plug the run.

 

We should have the personnel for it.

[Freddie's Dead]

3 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

...choose your Bush.....we're waiting...............

 

I'll go with Kate Bush.

1 hour ago, dpberr said:

Zone sucks in basketball.

 

Said Jim Boeheim.

[TigerJ]

I don't think the Bills have the personnel to use a "big nickel" successfully.  You've got to have a guy with some good measurables (size and athleticism) who mixes football intelligence and toughness.  They don't have that.  With Vontae Davis gone (and a disappointment before he left) they only have one quality starting CB.

[Overdue Bill]

10 hours ago, TigerJ said:

I don't think the Bills have the personnel to use a "big nickel" successfully.  You've got to have a guy with some good measurables (size and athleticism) who mixes football intelligence and toughness.  They don't have that.  With Vontae Davis gone (and a disappointment before he left) they only have one quality starting CB.

We should have addressed this in the preseason...I don't see it getting better now.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

So we are giving up more points per pass attempt playing the regular nickel. 

 

We are also only giving up 6ppg since Vontae's early retirement.

Edited September 22, 2018 by Sammy Watkins' Rib

[Wayne Cubed]

I’ve seen Jerry Hughes in zone coverage too much this season on 3rd downs.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

13 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

Rex didn’t believe in “safety help”

 

Like McDermott leaving White on an island last year with Green to get burned for a 75 yard TD? Unless you are implying the safety help we have now is that we actually signed a couple of good safeties in Poyer and Hyde when McDermott came in. That I definitely agree with. 

Edited September 22, 2018 by Sammy Watkins' Rib

[Flutie Flakes]

5 minutes ago, Overdue Bill said:

We should have addressed this in the preseason...I don't see it getting better now.

 

Hard to address effectively given our cap situation.  Davis was our "K-Mart blue light special" pick-up and he's gone.   

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

6 minutes ago, Wayne Cubed said:

I’ve seen Jerry Hughes in zone coverage too much this season on 3rd downs.

Von Miller Intercepts Tom Brady

 

This was second down rather than third but still second and long. I don't think it is a bid deal to occasionally drop your rush linebackers or ends in coverage as it can fool the QB who is likely certain that player is rushing. But yeah it should be used wisely and sparingly. I don't know how many times Hughes has dropped into coverage this year but a few times would be fine.

4 minutes ago, Flutie Flakes said:

 

Hard to address effectively given our cap situation.  Davis was our "K-Mart blue light special" pick-up and he's gone.   

 

It just makes me shake my head. How can we be in cap trouble when we basically have no good players? Even taking into account the Dareus money we are still owe who the heck else is getting paid on this team? We overpaid a bunch of bad players? And I love McCoy but RBs really are a dime a dozen and we probably shouldn't be paying him what he is getting either. Worst team in the league and we have a terrible cap situation. Makes no sense.

[Bob in STL]

13 hours ago, vincec said:

Schwartz runs a combination of man and zone. Rex Ryan ran a lot more man to man that Schwartz ever did and that didn't work out to well.

 

yes but the legend of Schwartz must live on you know. 

[Flutie Flakes]

4 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

It just makes me shake my head. How can we be in cap trouble when we basically have no good players? Even taking into account the Dareus money we are still owe who the heck else is getting paid on this team? We overpaid a bunch of bad players? And I love McCoy but RBs really are a dime a dozen and we probably shouldn't be paying him what he is getting either. Worst team in the league and we have a terrible cap situation. Makes no sense.

 

I couldn't agree more.  

 

From USA Today (9/18/18)

 

Most dead money in 2018

1. Bills- $53.1M
2. Cowboys- $28.9M
3. Giants- $25M
4. 49ers- $22.5M
5. Cardinals- $21M
6. Browns- $20.5M

Pretty crazy that Bills are almost equal to numbers 2 and 3 combined.

[Bob in STL]

11 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

Von Miller Intercepts Tom Brady

 

We overpaid a bunch of bad players? And I love McCoy but RBs really are a dime a dozen and we probably shouldn't be paying him what he is getting either. Worst team in the league and we have a terrible cap situation. Makes no sense.

 

Running backs are NOT really a dime a dozen.  That is one of the most overplayed thoughts in football today.

 

Look at our depth at RB last year and now this year.  Maybe a little better this year but not by much.   That said. McCoy's contract is not a good one for us but that has more to do with his age.   

 

Edited September 22, 2018 by Bob in STL

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

4 minutes ago, Bob in STL said:

 

Running backs are NOT really a dime a dozen.  That is one of the most overplayed thoughts in football today.

 

Look at our depth at RB last year and now this year.  Maybe a little better this year but not by much. 

 

 

I got to disagree here still. When was the last time we really had nobody good at the RB position?  More often than not we had two capable backs. Not just one. You definitely do not need to overspend on the position. Money is better spent elsewhere for sure.

Edited September 22, 2018 by Sammy Watkins' Rib