What areas of the team has Beane actually improved?

[Yeezus]

Brandon Beane came into this organization and shook up the roster more than any other past GM's I can think of. He made several headline trades that saw some of our best young talent getting shipped away for draft picks

 

It was risky but we needed the draft picks. 2 years later he got his QB and this is the squad we are left with. Holes everywhere on the squad. 

 

I love Mcdermott as a HC, I think given what he had to work with last season he did very well. But I'm not at all sold on Beane like 90% of this fanbase. I truly don't understand what he has done to improve this team in the last 2 years. Roster turnover is rather quick in the NFL. This isn't hockey or the NBA where we have to wait for years until a young core of players develops into elite talent. Beane traded away some of our best players and has yet to replace them. 2nd offseason in a row he has completely ignored the oline and we now objectively have the worst oline in the league. 

 

I can only think of the RB's and safety position groups that have improved since the Rex era. Our LB's are some of the worst in the league, Dline and the pass rush has disappeared, and our top ranked rush offense is no more.  

 

This season doesn't count, and shouldn't. But we are realistically 2-3 years away from competing. Beane has a lot of work to do next offseason. 

[MJS]

We made the playoffs. Can't argue with results.

[Aussie Joe]

Did you prefer Whaley?

[Yeezus]

1 minute ago, MJS said:

We made the playoffs. Can't argue with results.

 

we were also ranked middle of the pack in almost every defensive category and ranked dead last in passing stats. 

 

Like I said Mcdermott accomplished a lot with the roster he had. we made a panic trade by getting KB, and when Darius left our run defense went down the drain. 

[fridge]

I prefer Beane over McDermott actually. This is a gross over exaggeration, but I think McDermott believes he can force feed conservative football on his opponents and he thinks he’s clever when he burns timeouts after seeing what formation the offense is in on crucial third downs.

 

Beane seems to me to be part of a newer generation of league executives that truly leaves no stone left unturned. I haven’t agreed with all of his moves, but he’s active and nothing that he has done so far leaves me to believe he’s going to just sit tight with a sub par offensive line. There was a lot of deadweight left over from the previous regime, and he’s impressed in getting rid of it this far.

[Agent 91]

1 minute ago, Aussie Joe said:

Did you prefer Whaley?

I actually did..... Don't throw anything at me.

[Aussie Joe]

Just now, Agent 91 said:

I actually did..... Don't throw anything at me.

 

Not gunna throw anything but can I ask why?

 

 

[jr1]

it's hard not to have holes with the salary cap

[gobills1212]

Give it a rest man... again its preseason!

You are either working yourself up in a tizzy over preseason, or you are super bored. 

At the moment, its the equivlant of having a self portrat done and as soon as the circle for the head is drawn - you complain it looks nothing like you.

Its a shame all the level headed even folks get drowned out w stuff like this. Just give it a rest!

All week i thgt it was funny all these media pundits were manning up and admitting they were wrong about allen. Based on 2 preseason games?

Now are they all going to flip again and say they were right all along?

You frequent this forum, so you are aware this is a work in progress. 

You watched the game, so im sure you heard the whole dead cap $$ thing this year before the skies open next yr.

I feel like 75% of the fans are cool with a year of learning and developing in the name of future progress. 

Why are the other 25% so damn loud???

I dont understand how there is awareness to be this bothered where a post like this is written but yet the awareness to see the forrest through the trees is absent...

Edited August 27, 2018 by gobills1212

[apuszczalowski]

Age? The team is Younger now IIRC

 

Lets wait to see what they look like when the results matter. The Superbowl Champs were shut out by the Browns in a 5-0 game this week.

Lets not judge this team off of some preseason football. Its not like good teams have never looked bad in preseason, and bad teams ever looked really good in the preseason (Its been the only place the Browns have gotten wins the last few seasons)

[Agent 91]

I feel like there is a weird power thing happening.I'm not sure how much of this isn't McDermott. Brand is a GM face but does he really have the ability to make moves without McDs sign off?

[QB Bills]

Agree with most of this but I don't really get why everyone is in love with McDermott. We got really lucky last year in a weak year for the AFC.

 

He's just another in the long line of dinosaurs who will never have the balls to win anything big in this league. Playing it safe by punting on 4th and short near midfield in a meaningless preseason game when you are still in evaluation mode is just another example of how clueless this guy is. We're going nowhere with these two in charge. 

Edited August 27, 2018 by QB Bills

[SoTier]

1 minute ago, MJS said:

We made the playoffs. Can't argue with results.

 

Cherish the memory of the playoffs, dude, because you're not likely to have any new ones in the near future.   Contrary to some fans' fantasies, 2019 doesn't look the year the Bills "put it all together" and dominate the AFCE ... or even 2020.

[Yeezus]

2 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said:

Did you prefer Whaley?

 

Whaley made a lot of solid moves, he was unlucky and had to deal with EJ. 

 

He brought us Richie, Jerry Hughes, Lorenzo, Shady. He really tried to improve this team but had no QB and a disaster of a coaching staff that Pegula hired. 

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

12 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said:

Did you prefer Whaley?

 

"Preferred" is the wrong word.  I think there is no question that Beane is a more complete GM...he is not depending upon Jim Overdorf to teach him cap management, he has his own ideas and tells Overdorf what he wants.  He is also far more polished and comfortable dealing with the press.

But Whaley did recognize and bring in talent, as witnessed by the fact that so many of the players he drafted are starters or contributors on other NFL teams, including last year's playoff teams.  People like to rag on him, but his downfall really was trying to adapt his roster to 3 different coaching schemes IMHO.

It is yet to be determined if Beane will be as successful in bringing in talent.... Vlad Ducasse, Russ Bodine, Mike Tolbert, Jordan Matthews, and Vonte Davis leave me underwhelmed so far.  He has a clear pattern of wanting to "swing for the fences" with sky-high ceiling/high risk/low floor guys (eg Allen, Edmunds) over "safer" picks.  He's left gimondulous holes on OL and WR in part due to the players he's brought in/drafted not panning out (eg Ducasse, Bodine, Zay Jones, Jordan Matthews). 

 

We'll see.

 

Edit: although I'm frightened by the posters with whom I seem to be in agreement.  Yikes!

 

 

[Fadingpain]

One thing Beane did which was positive is move a lot of bad contracts out the door.  Next year in particular we are going to have huge amounts of cap space.

 

 

 

[Yeezus]

At the end of the day Beane and Mcdermotts future will directly relate to the success  of the Jets/Darnold and who takes over the division after Brady retires. 

 

If in 2 years Allen is struggling while the other QB's from his class are having success they will be gone. 

[Bangarang]

Fire everyone. Forfeit the season. Is it too late to move the team to a Toronto?

[jahnyc]

Beane and McD tore down completely what was here before and there was not enough cap space because of the dead money or draft picks to make significant enough additions for this season through free agency or the draft.  

[Agent 91]

1 minute ago, Aussie Joe said:

 

Not gunna throw anything but can I ask why?

 

 

Sure. Seems like while they both mismanaged the cap at times Whaley had the eye. His problem as a GM was that he was more of a scout. I envision his job as the HC saying I need a guy who can do this thing. And Whaley instantly knowing Corey Graham, Zach Brown, Nikel Robeys. He just had a knack for the unheard of people who just worked. I could be argued down but faith and all these corny mantras didn't exist. For those people who really liked Jim Schwartz, he was pushing for Hue Jackson who would have tried to keep Schwartz on. OK Hue has been pretty bad, but where is Rex? I just feel like he wanted better FB players and was prepped to sacrifice the content of team character.

 

Beane and McD seem to want to win. But the right way. And so far 2 offseasons this has been pretty bad. The mismanagement of draft picks, no attempt to fortify a line where are the wrs? I am just having a tough time trusting this process.

[Ayjent]

3 minutes ago, MJS said:

We made the playoffs. Can't argue with results.

That’s what any decent coach would’ve done with the roster while Rex was coach, even with the Whaley roster.  

 

Now I think we a lot of people paying attention knew that there was an impending blow up coming with that roster with the bad contracts and win now, screw the long term strategy of Whaley. I think they got a guy in McDermott that capitalized on the remnants of that roster that hadn’t been churned yet and they made a couple of really good pick ups with Hyde and Poyer and got decent value for Watkins. The core starters of the Offense was still intact for the most part at QB, OL and RB - so they were capable last year, but not spectacular by any means on Offense.

 

 This offseason they blew up the Offense with shipping out Glenn and Tyrod for picks that roughly equated to unproven highly regarded talent at LB and QB and wood and Incognito retired, and their star on Offense is a RB who probably doesn’t have a lot left in the tank beyond this season.  Now this a roster that Beane owns more than ever and I think the lack of foresight on the OL and importance of keeping a proven guy at QB while you develop a top prospect is going to rear it’s head as major miscalculations, especially with Castillo as OL coach.  I really don’t understand the philosophy of what they are doing on Offense in an Offense driven league - unproven and underperforming talent at too many key positions is a risky way of trying to build a team and install a new offense - sure it could work, but it’s not what I’d call measured or wise.

[Yeezus]

2 minutes ago, jahnyc said:

Beane and McD tore down completely what was here before and there was not enough cap space because of the dead money or draft picks to make significant enough additions for this season through free agency or the draft.  

 

that doesn't explain why he traded Darby & Ragland. they were awful trades and did more harm than good. We could have used both players last year and this year. 

[COTC]

Good post OP. I agree. 

 

Too many holes, not enough talent for a very conservative coach. 

 

D pressure is not existent, bend don’t break bull ****, Dick Jauron like. 

 

On offense, our O line in putrid and our wrs can’t catch.

 

two more years of this regime.  Two more. 

 

Lets be patient.  

Edited August 27, 2018 by COTC

[Ol Dirty B]

Whaley also constructed a 9-7 team that was far more talented. He never sat on his hands, seemed to always be trying to improve the team. I really think his weakness in areas of communications, his presser, and the Pegulas being totally inept contributed to his down fall. I really think he came into a lot of dysfunction, if he was able to do the job the way a GM should be, I think he'd succeed. He brought in way more talent to this team than this current regime did. I know it's not a popular opinion, but when you look at it, what has the regime done? They really got lucky. Next year and the year after will be when we can crown them if they are good at their job.

[The Frankish Reich]

7 minutes ago, Fadingpain said:

One thing Beane did which was positive is move a lot of bad contracts out the door.  Next year in particular we are going to have huge amounts of cap space.

 

 

 

Correct. That's what it's been all about, getting out from under bad contracts. It takes a couple years, so this is really a planned down year. You can even see it in the draft picks. Compare: Rex's/Whaley's 1st round linebacker = Ragland, a limited upside "can step right in" guy; Beane's /McDermott's: Edmunds, raw 20 year old with tremendous upside, but clearly needs a year or two.  Same with Allen. Beane has this team on the right track, but you won't see much in the way of on-the-field results in 2018. 

[Ol Dirty B]

3 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Correct. That's what it's been all about, getting out from under bad contracts. It takes a couple years, so this is really a planned down year. You can even see it in the draft picks. Compare: Rex's/Whaley's 1st round linebacker = Ragland, a limited upside "can step right in" guy; Beane's /McDermott's: Edmunds, raw 20 year old with tremendous upside, but clearly needs a year or two.  Same with Allen. Beane has this team on the right track, but you won't see much in the way of on-the-field results in 2018. 

 

Eh... Ragland was a 2nd rounder and tore his ACL in camp his rookie year. But let's not let facts get in the way of the narrative we want to construct. I could be more accurate than you in creating my own and giving Whaley credit for Tre. 

Edited August 27, 2018 by Ol Dirty B

[Aussie Joe]

1 minute ago, Agent 91 said:

Sure. Seems like while they both mismanaged the cap at times Whaley had the eye. His problem as a GM was that he was more of a scout. I envision his job as the HC saying I need a guy who can do this thing. And Whaley instantly knowing Corey Graham, Zach Brown, Nikel Robeys. He just had a knack for the unheard of people who just worked. I could be argued down but faith and all these corny mantras didn't exist. For those people who really liked Jim Schwartz, he was pushing for Hue Jackson who would have tried to keep Schwartz on. OK Hue has been pretty bad, but where is Rex? I just feel like he wanted better FB players and was prepped to sacrifice the content of team character.

 

Beane and McD seem to want to win. But the right way. And so far 2 offseasons this has been pretty bad. The mismanagement of draft picks, no attempt to fortify a line where are the wrs? I am just having a tough time trusting this process.

 

Appreciate that Whaley was not all bad, but a few years later his mistakes seem to be all I can remember..

 

For Example A - the Clay Contract... this has turned out to be a terrible deal that even 4 years later the team still cant move on from...( $9Mil in Wasted Cap this year)

 

He made some terrible  draft decisions even apart from Watkins...Wasn't a fan of the Ragland trade up amongst others...

 

Not sure how much his fingerprints were on the EJ pick.. surely he must have at least given his blessing..

 

But agree  Beane has got a long way to go as well before we see whether he is on the right track...

 

Although, I will say that I thought he played the Tyrod trade to perfection...

 

[Misterbluesky]

13 minutes ago, Fadingpain said:

One thing Beane did which was positive is move a lot of bad contracts out the door.  Next year in particular we are going to have huge amounts of cap space.

 

 

 

And when you have a lot of money in the bank,most young GM's get themselves into more expensive/bad contracts. The draft is where good organizations clean up. A team is as good as their scouting staff is.But money helps...

[Ayjent]

2 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Correct. That's what it's been all about, getting out from under bad contracts. It takes a couple years, so this is really a planned down year. You can even see it in the draft picks. Compare: Rex's/Whaley's 1st round linebacker = Ragland, a limited upside "can step right in" guy; Beane's /McDermott's: Edmunds, raw 20 year old with tremendous upside, but clearly needs a year or two.  Same with Allen. Beane has this team on the right track, but you won't see much in the way of on-the-field results in 2018. 

Yeah they had to get rid of some bad contracts, no question.  But...they didn’t have to hit the reset button - they have some hubris about them, and they‘ll get a mulligan from fans if this is a brutal season.  Look they blew their load on their top two picks that could’ve been used to round out the roster and fill some holes.  Even if you buy into the need to splurge on a QB, fine, but why on a 20 yr old LB - when your OL is a complete mess and you need to protect that huge investment you just made?  So does Allen get to develop with rookie OL players being inserted each year over the next few years with Castillo coaching?  Great plan (sarcasm).

[jahnyc]

The players that McD and Beane have gotten rid of were all players from the prior regime, including Darby and Ragland.  That is the explanation.  We don't know the reasons. Yes, we could use some of these players now.  Darby would look good starting opposite White and Glenn, if healthy, would be a welcome addition to this o-line.  

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Ayjent said:

That’s what any decent coach would’ve done with the roster while Rex was coach, even with the Whaley roster. 

 

Unsure about the roster while Rex was coach. 

 

But certainly, in 2014 with Marrone and Schwartz, one could argue that there's an element of "Hard Knocks" that 9-7 wasn't good enough to take us into the playoffs that year, and that if that success on D had been maintained, next year's #12 offense should have spotted us 2 more wins and playoffs could have been achieved.

 

And there's a certain element of luck that 9-7 was enough to get in last year, when it wasn't in 2014, 2015, or 2016.

[Rc2catch]

This stuff is too funny.. go talk to some Carolina fans about how their teams were built. They never had good receiving groups. Always middle priced vets. Of course Olsen and Benjamin.

they fielded some of the most pathetic defensive back groups ever. Older washed up safeties and undrafted or low draft pick corners. Carolina always has holes in certain areas they NEVER addressed or invested big money into. This team has been built a little differently but still the same model. 

The only way this plan works is if they DEVELOP young talent. 

[Scott7975]

32 minutes ago, Ol Dirty B said:

Whaley also constructed a 9-7 team that was far more talented. He never sat on his hands, seemed to always be trying to improve the team. I really think his weakness in areas of communications, his presser, and the Pegulas being totally inept contributed to his down fall. I really think he came into a lot of dysfunction, if he was able to do the job the way a GM should be, I think he'd succeed. He brought in way more talent to this team than this current regime did. I know it's not a popular opinion, but when you look at it, what has the regime done? They really got lucky. Next year and the year after will be when we can crown them if they are good at their job.

Yeah great.  He brought the team to the brink of the cap for a 9-7 year where the last game was a gimme. 

[Lenigmusx]

42 minutes ago, COTC said:

Good post OP. I agree. 

 

Too many holes, not enough talent for a very conservative coach. 

 

D pressure is not existent, bend don’t break bull ****, Dick Jauron like. 

 

On offense, our O line in putrid and our wrs can’t catch.

 

two more years of this regime.  Two more. 

 

Lets be patient.  

Really??? Compare them to the Skeletor lead teams? Playoffs and breaking the drought was mission number one. We will be at least 8-8 this year with a lot to build on. 

[COTC]

Just now, Lenigmusx said:

Really??? Compare them to the Skeletor lead teams? Playoffs and breaking the drought was mission number one. We will be at least 8-8 this year with a lot to build on. 

Love your optimism Len. 

 

We cant ignore the facts, however. 

[Ol Dirty B]

12 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

Yeah great.  He brought the team to the brink of the cap for a 9-7 year where the last game was a gimme. 

 

And this team went 9-7, won't go near it. Did nothing but bring in Star, Kaelin Clay, Davis, and got into the playoffs on a fluke play in a game they weren't playing.... And I'm supposed to praise them?

 

I'm saying Beane hasn't show he's better than Whaley to this point, at all. You guys are so concerned about the cap on here, it's crazy. People want to cut Clay at this point... You won't sign anyone near his value at any position at this point. It's pointless, I'd think the money is coming out of your guys hands the way you want to cut guys at the most inopportune times. The dead money is ridicolous, and what they have gotten in return for it, be it draft capital, or giving guys an opportunity, has been atrocious. 

 

They traded Dareus for nothing. We're paying him 13 mil to play in Jacksonville. They signed Star to an absurd contract to replace Dareus where he is getting 10 mil this year. He's getting another 10 if he plays next year, and 8 in dead money if he is cut. That's 23 million on one position this year, and odds are, Star doesn't even play to Dareus's level. That's awful management. The way you guys want to cut people on here and talk about contracts is absurd. They haven't shown to be good at that at all.

 

We were just better off keeping Dareus. That was an absolutely horrendous trade.

Edited August 27, 2018 by Ol Dirty B

[Hapless Bills Fan]

59 minutes ago, jahnyc said:

Beane and McD tore down completely what was here before and there was not enough cap space because of the dead money or draft picks to make significant enough additions for this season through free agency or the draft.  

 

In part that's true, but there's another side of it which is the additions they have made through trade, FA, or draft simply have not proven good.

 

 

[Starr Almighty]

He improved the salary cap. Next year they an start to build. The secondary has been upgraded too.

[The Frankish Reich]

11 minutes ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

And this team went 9-7, won't go near it. Did nothing but bring in Star, Kaelin Clay, Davis, and got into the playoffs on a fluke play in a game they weren't playing.... And I'm supposed to praise them?

 

I'm saying Beane hasn't show he's better than Whaley to this point, at all. You guys are so concerned about the cap on here, it's crazy. People want to cut Clay at this point... You won't sign anyone near his value at any position at this point. It's pointless, I'd think the money is coming out of your guys hands the way you want to cut guys at the most inopportune times. The dead money is ridicolous, and what they have gotten in return for it, be it draft capital, or giving guys an opportunity, has been atrocious. 

 

They traded Dareus for nothing. We're paying him 13 mil to play in Jacksonville. They signed Star to an absurd contract to replace Dareus where he is getting 10 mil this year. He's getting another 10 if he plays next year, and 8 in dead money if he is cut. That's 23 million on one position this year, and odds are, Star doesn't even play to Dareus's level. That's awful management. The way you guys want to cut people on here and talk about contracts is absurd. They haven't shown to be good at that at all.

 

We were just better off keeping Dareus. That was an absolutely horrendous trade.

Dareus trade: perfectly justifiable. Star signing: a real head scratcher. I'll grant you that. 

[Estro]

QB - worse/same

RB - same

WR - worse

TE - better/same

OL - worse

 

DE - worse/same

DT - same

LB - worse

CB - same

S - better, way better