Do we need to go after a fairly proven deep threat?

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

Imagine if we still had Goodwin with Allen?

[Teddy KGB]

They could throw a few up to this guy.    

 

 

[PIZ]

27 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Like I already said: "Highly doubtful with not enough good players." 

 

Here's a link that shows the NFL WR corp for each team, ranking them from worst to first.  It's from May, but still gets my point across.  There will be some good WRs cut.  Happens every year.  Maybe not "name" guys, but guys that can play.  Buffalo is at 32.

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2777814-ranking-every-nfl-receiving-corps-heading-into-the-2018-season

 

 

Edited August 11, 2018 by PIZ

[26CornerBlitz]

4 minutes ago, PIZ said:

 

Here's a link that shows the NFL WR core for each team, ranking them from worst to first.  It's from May, but still gets my point across.  There will be some good WRs cut.  Happens every year.  Maybe not "name" guys, but guys that can play.  Buffalo is at 32.

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2777814-ranking-every-nfl-receiving-corps-heading-into-the-2018-season

 

That doesn't mean much.  There are simply not enough quality WRs in today's NFL game. It's the same with OL.  BTW it's corps not core. 

[billsbackto81]

2 hours ago, Jay_Fixit said:

They should trade for someone like Corey Coleman. Lots of potential. Super fast.

I've heard of him.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

8 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

That doesn't mean much.  There are simply not enough quality WRs in today's NFL game. It's the same with OL.  BTW it's corps not core. 

 

...sure as hell cannot leave QB's out....some of these guys STILL masquerading as NFL QB's could be busted for impersonation or extortion.......saddest position in the league IMO...

[Trogdor]

10 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

That doesn't mean much.  There are simply not enough quality WRs in today's NFL game. It's the same with OL.  BTW it's corps not core. 

 

You act like there was an overabundance of them before. This team has been chasing slot receivers for the last two years, so it's not crazy to believe that we have no burners. I don't think it's a supply problem as much as it is questionable choices. The OL is no different. 

[SCBills]

9 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

That doesn't mean much.  There are simply not enough quality WRs in today's NFL game. It's the same with OL.  BTW it's corps not core. 

 

We’re not trying to sign a Julio Jones here.... We just need another guy like Coleman to be on the outs.   You know, the guy we got for a 7th round pick last week.  

[26CornerBlitz]

1 minute ago, Trogdor said:

 

You act like there was an overabundance of them before. This team has been chasing slot receivers for the last two years, so it's not crazy to believe that we have no burners. I don't think it's a supply problem as much as it is questionable choices. The OL is no different. 

 

That's why Coleman is here. 

 

1 minute ago, SCBills said:

 

We’re not trying to sign a Julio Jones here.... We just need another guy like Coleman to be on the outs.   You know, the guy we got for a 7th round pick last week.  

 

Fringe guys who might get cut can't be expected to make much of a contribution.  What I'm posting isn't even controversial. 

[PIZ]

15 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

That doesn't mean much.  There are simply not enough quality WRs in today's NFL game. It's the same with OL.  BTW it's corps not core. 

 

Yes.  Thanks.  Corps.  Stupid homophones.  Though I do think you love pointing out people's mistakes....

 

We shall see.  I still think the Bills pickup a WR and OL from other team's cuts.
 

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, PIZ said:

 

Yes.  Thanks.  Corps.  Stupid homophones.  Though I do think you love pointing out people's mistakes....

 

We shall see.  I still think the Bills pickup a WR and OL from other team's cuts.

 

Just trying to help you out.  Maybe they will, but it'll be for depth or ST.  

[Trogdor]

1 minute ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

That's why Coleman is here. 

 

 

Fringe guys who might get cut can't be expected to make much of a contribution.  What I'm posting isn't even controversial. 

 

Yea but Coleman isn't very good as you point out. They had chances to address it, but decided to acquire more slot guys for their cannon armed pick. It's a very Billsy thing to do. 

[Just Joshin']

2 hours ago, All I Need is Hope said:

Considering Allen's deep accuracy and ridiculous arm and the dimension it brings to the offense that EVERY defense has to account for; do you think that Beane and co. are / should be actively looking for a proven (more proven than Coleman) deep threat?

 

I know that we can't get a Julio or AB, but maybe give up a player or pick for an upgrade?

 

 

 

 

Who do you suggest and what are you willing to pay?

[SCBills]

7 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

That's why Coleman is here. 

 

 

Fringe guys who might get cut can't be expected to make much of a contribution.  What I'm posting isn't even controversial. 

 

It’s not controversial. You just seem to be having a different conversation than everyone else.  

 

Coleman would be what this thread is referencing - “fairly proven deep threat”.   He’s proven he can take the top off, albeit inconsistent with injury issues. Cleveland’s new FO didn’t draft him, wanted their own guys and saved some money.  We got him for a 7th.   Guys like this come free in cuts/trades for whatever reasons.. cap hits, scheme, personality etc..  Others like him may become available and, if so, we should go after one. 

 

You act as though this thread says “#1 WR” or “#2 WR” or “Proven Deep Threat”.   Those guys probably aren’t becoming available. 

Edited August 11, 2018 by SCBills

[snamsnoops]

6 minutes ago, PIZ said:

 

Yes.  Thanks.  Corps.  Stupid homophones.  Though I do think you love pointing out people's mistakes....

 

We shall see.  I still think the Bills pickup a WR and OL from other team's cuts.
 

What kinda jerk doesnt like doing that!

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, SCBills said:

 

It’s not controversial. You just seem to be having a different conversation than everyone else.  

 

Coleman would be what this thread is referencing - “fairly proven deep threat”.   He’s proven he can take the top off, albeit inconsistent with injury issues. Cleveland’s new FO didn’t draft him, wanted their own guys and saved some money.  We got him for a 7th.   Guys like this come free in cuts for whatever reasons.. cap hits, scheme, personality etc..

 

You act as though this thread says “#1 WR” or “#2 WR” or “Proven Deep Threat”.   Those guys probably aren’t becoming available. 

 

I'm having the same conversation and what I'm saying is players who will be released or otherwise made available after preseason aren't likely to make that much of a contribution.  

[SCBills]

2 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

I'm having the same conversation and what I'm saying is players who will be released or otherwise made available after preseason aren't likely to make that much of a contribution.  

 

Not likely, but it happens, and may happen for us again.  You don’t need to look very far to find a late addition who made an impact..... 

 

We signed Deonta Thompson last October.  

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, SCBills said:

 

Not likely, but it happens, and may happen for us again.  You don’t need to look very far to find a late addition who made an impact..... 

 

We signed Deonta Thompson last October.  

 

He did a nice job last season. 

[billsredneck1]

mcbeane met with coleman pre draft (prior to him being drafted.) they have been aware of him for a while and decided it was a good time to pull the trigger.

point being...they know him better than any of us or the media.  i trust and hope this kid comes around and becomes maybe a james lofton for us.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

If you are patient Sammy Watkins deal will be up after 2021.......and he'll still be 28 when he hits FA........Kelvin Benjamin will be 28 this winter when he hits FA.?

Trading a great deep threat like Watkins and then trading similar draft capital for KB and then drafting a perfect fit for Watkins in Josh Allen was bad feng shui.    

 

I really have difficulty understanding what McBeane have done with the Bills roster at WR.  It's not as though Goodwin and Woods commanded huge FA salaries or as though it was clear Matthews would be any kind of an upgrade.

 

1 hour ago, RocCityRoller said:

I get your point, and agree with you. But I think the O-line 1 and OL 2 aquitted themselves admirably in the last game. Allen was behind the 3's which was bad.

 

I am uncomfortable generalizing about our line based upon 1 preseason game, where we lack context about the opposing defensive players.

Well, I guess you can safely generalize about the 3's being awful

[fansince88]

3 hours ago, whatdrought said:

 

Is give a 3rd for him. 

I would give them a 7th in 2019

[Doc]

31 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I really have difficulty understanding what McBeane have done with the Bills roster at WR.  It's not as though Goodwin and Woods commanded huge FA salaries or as though it was clear Matthews would be any kind of an upgrade.

 

Woods got almost $7M/year from the Rams. As for Goodwin, his injury-proneness and previous lack of commitment made him unreliable. And Matthews wasn’t viewed as an upgrade. 

[Boatdrinks]

1 hour ago, billsredneck1 said:

mcbeane met with coleman pre draft (prior to him being drafted.) they have been aware of him for a while and decided it was a good time to pull the trigger.

point being...they know him better than any of us or the media.  i trust and hope this kid comes around and becomes maybe a james lofton for us.

I think we’d all hope that he becomes a HOF receiver for the Bills. That’s very unlikely though. I think we have to set the sights just a weee bit lower than James Lofton for CC. 

1 hour ago, Trogdor said:

 

Yea but Coleman isn't very good as you point out. They had chances to address it, but decided to acquire more slot guys for their cannon armed pick. It's a very Billsy thing to do. 

What were those chances exactly? If you mean keeping Watkins, they certainly did have a chance at that. What other proven deep threats do you feel they had chances at, but decided to pass on ? 

[Kemp]

 

[nikuman]

2 hours ago, Dalton said:

Who do you suggest and what are you willing to pay?

 

The Browns love to trade with us...send them Shaq Lawson for Josh Gordon. 

[jethro_tull]

They need another proven receiver - period.  As I mentioned elsewhere-

Unfortunately when you look at the current depth chart for Bills receivers you see Kelvin Benjamin and Corey Coleman or Zay Jones at the top .
Aside from Benjamin, not a single receiver on the Bills roster has accomplished anything to allow us to say that they are average receivers in the NFL. Much less in the top 64 of the league that would position one of them as a certified starter.
The signing of Coleman kind of sparked this thinking because it really comes off as a move of desperation- flagging that even our GM believes our receiving squad needs help- even if it turns out to be another Deonte Thompson / Jordan Matthews type of move. After Benjamin and the unproven in Zay Jones / Corey Coleman the list looks like this-
Jeremy Kerley
Andre Holmes
Rod Streater
Ray-Ray McCloud
Austin Proehl
Brandon Reilly
Kaelin Clay
Malachi Dupre
Robert Foster
Cam Phillips
Again, a list of unproven players that are a far cry from NFL starting level talent at this point. And while good practices, training camp performances and preseason game contributions are promising, we have seen all to many times that it doesn’t mean much until the bullets start flying in regular season competition.
Receivers take time to develop and Brian Daboll is in a good position to do just that. But relying on development, translation and scooping up released veterans trying to find a top 64 receiver or two is nothing but optimism and a guess at this point.
The Bills enter 2018 with one starting receiver and a lot of maybes.
The good news is that last year wasn’t much different- Charles Clay and LeSean McCoy were the Bills leading “receivers”. Thankfully they are still on the roster.

[Buffalo Boy]

Hate to Go the well too many times but what about Damiere Byrd from the Panthers.

He might actually be available and he can flat out FLY.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I really have difficulty understanding what McBeane have done with the Bills roster at WR.  It's not as though Goodwin and Woods commanded huge FA salaries or as though it was clear Matthews would be any kind of an upgrade.

 

2017 called, it wants its conversation back!

[Trogdor]

2 hours ago, Boatdrinks said:

I think we’d all hope that he becomes a HOF receiver for the Bills. That’s very unlikely though. I think we have to set the sights just a weee bit lower than James Lofton for CC. 

What were those chances exactly? If you mean keeping Watkins, they certainly did have a chance at that. What other proven deep threats do you feel they had chances at, but decided to pass on ? 

The draft or free agency. Outside of Benjamin, all they've done is stockpile slot receivers. It makes no sense.

[TigerJ]

6 hours ago, All I Need is Hope said:

With Coleman's injury history and limited book of work, and not even one semi-proven deep threat behind him, I'm sure that some teams have a surplus of speed.

 

Not saying they are the answer, but someone like Mike Wallace, Desean Jackson, Maclin...

Coleman's injury history consists of twice breaking his hand.  This is definitely not a typical injury you associate with an injury prone player.  I'm inclined to think it was just kind of a freak coincidence that he broke it twice. 

[Boatdrinks]

17 minutes ago, Trogdor said:

The draft or free agency. Outside of Benjamin, all they've done is stockpile slot receivers. It makes no sense.

The draft was a matter of priorities. They loved Edmunds, had a huge hole at LB and had to trade up to get him. Good move, but it came with an opportunity cost. The Bills inquired about Martavis Bryant at last years trade deadline. There was a good chance he’d be moved this offseason and the draft was a likely time. He went for just a 4th rounder to OAK, but the Bills traded theirs in the move up deal with BAL. Anyway, by the time they had picks again to address WR, the best ones were long gone. They still needed WRs, but the skill sets of the remaining guys were more suited to the slot. Getting a good FA to come here in March , when they had all of Nate Peterman on the roster at QB would have been a next to impossible sell. Plus ,the cap room needed to pay one of those FA WR deals was huge. The Bills will be in a much better cap situation next year, but for now they’re paying the price for getting rid of Whaley’s dead wood. Bottom line, they couldn’t get everything they needed in one offseason. 

Edited August 12, 2018 by Boatdrinks

[Augie]

The concept of a proven deep threat is, of course, terrific. The feasibility is a bit problematic. I suspect that if there’s a James Lofton in his prime just hanging out at home, they’ve made that phone call. My wish list never has all the items crossed off. I’m sure they are working on it...

[TigerJ]

Benjamin, Holmes and Kerley are really Buffalo's only slow receivers.  Benjamin is so big and strong, and has such a huge catch radius, the fact that he's not a burner doesn't really hurt him.  He' can catch short passes, and he can get deep and high point a pass that a shorter CB has no chance to break up without pas interference.  Holmes is another tall guy.  He's not a physically dominant as Benjamin, but he's a decent possession receiver in addition to his special teams contributions.  Kerley gets open underneath with his route running and short area quickness.  He's probably not going to catch a lot of deep balls.  The only other slow guy is Cam Phillips, and while he is a quality pass catcher, I think he is a victim of numbers when it comes to making this roster, especially after getting hurt.  I wouldn't be surprised if Buffalo stashes him on IR. Reilly, Jones, McCloud, and Streater all have enough speed to be a deep threat (in the range of 4.4 - 4.5).  Coleman is a burner, as is Foster if he can get out of his funk.  It might be nice if Buffalo had one more burner make the team besides Coleman (Foster is on the outside looking in at this point), but if Coleman stays healthy, it is a luxury Buffalo can live without.

[RocCityRoller]

5 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I really have difficulty understanding what McBeane have done with the Bills roster at WR.  It's not as though Goodwin and Woods commanded huge FA salaries or as though it was clear Matthews would be any kind of an upgrade.

 

 

I am uncomfortable generalizing about our line based upon 1 preseason game, where we lack context about the opposing defensive players.

Well, I guess you can safely generalize about the 3's being awful

 

 

We disagree. The OL looks good, I hope they can run block. OL 2 did well in that regard. OL1 meh.

 

I'm far more worried about our DB depth.

[Domdab99]

What has Phillip Dorssett ever done?

[Doc]

23 minutes ago, Domdab99 said:

What has Phillip Dorssett ever done?

 

Not a lot. Despite playing with infinitely better QBs than Coleman (who obviates the need for someone like Dorsett) has. 

[Trogdor]

8 hours ago, Boatdrinks said:

The draft was a matter of priorities. They loved Edmunds, had a huge hole at LB and had to trade up to get him. Good move, but it came with an opportunity cost. The Bills inquired about Martavis Bryant at last years trade deadline. There was a good chance he’d be moved this offseason and the draft was a likely time. He went for just a 4th rounder to OAK, but the Bills traded theirs in the move up deal with BAL. Anyway, by the time they had picks again to address WR, the best ones were long gone. They still needed WRs, but the skill sets of the remaining guys were more suited to the slot. Getting a good FA to come here in March , when they had all of Nate Peterman on the roster at QB would have been a next to impossible sell. Plus ,the cap room needed to pay one of those FA WR deals was huge. The Bills will be in a much better cap situation next year, but for now they’re paying the price for getting rid of Whaley’s dead wood. Bottom line, they couldn’t get everything they needed in one offseason. 

 

There were a ton of receivers in the draft as there are every year. To say that there were no speedsters left is crazy. Last year they tried to run with Boldin, Matthews, and Jones, who are all basically slot receivers. Their is a clear preference for them. I think it probably has to do with the possession style of running football that they want to run. Not for nothing, but the Bills have a guy who writes the contracts and it's not Whaley. 

[ALF]

Let the OL and Allen develop this season. Address needs in next free agency and draft.

 

Tasker made me think , he said if Daboll has success he could be the Browns next HC. 

[DCOrange]

I don’t expect Buffalo to do it but I think DeSean Jackson could be had relatively cheap, like a mid round pick. Supposedly he’s looking at being the #4 WR in Tampa this year and that’s without accounting for the TEs that will be very involved too. 

[cd1]

11 hours ago, TigerJ said:

Coleman's injury history consists of twice breaking his hand.  This is definitely not a typical injury you associate with an injury prone player.  I'm inclined to think it was just kind of a freak coincidence that he broke it twice. 

 

Coleman said in an interview that when he initially broke the hand it was deemed that surgery was not necessary. But when it was broken a second time they did perform surgery to ensure that it would heal correctly.  

 

https://www.buffalobills.com/audio/obl-8-7-corey-coleman-on-his-fresh-start-in-buffalo-brian-daboll-on-evaluating-t   @30:00

Edited August 12, 2018 by cd1