Allen already a factor in QB race ?

[3rdand12]

20 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

 

...I'm 142% in agreement, so perhaps we BOTH should take cover from the ensuing TBD "well wishers"....

already built a secret fort with couch cushions ala Grandsons Construction Company.

 bring it

20 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

The only thing I would say is Allen has had crappy line play his whole college career....so that would not be anything new for him.

Hope he never sees it again.

 Folks forget to take that feature when evaluating him statistically.
 But you have a great point  John. he likely has quick moving eyes , great peripheral vision ,and swivel head already developed.

He made it this far and is still alive and healthy. lets keep him that way please

[Boca BIlls]

Man I should have said that much earlier since it got everyone riled up.  

[Putin]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I saw some numbers scrawled on a wall in lipstick.   The numbers were 12, 11, and 22.    I wonder what they mean?

 

Personally, I think people may forget the number "9" as well, while focusing on 3 3-point games and how things can't possibly get any worse, offensively 'cuz, 31

 

I hope they don't, but in fact, they can.

I would give a little more credit to the defense especially when it comes to number “9” don’t you think ? 

[White Linen]

5 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

It's not unreasonable in the broad sense, but when you consider his total productivity (passing + running) there isn't any past history to suggest this from 2 of our 3 QB.

I know that's not what folks want to hear, but it's keeping it real.

 

 

 

I took total production into account that's why I didn't say passing.  I would think 3,300 yards and 18 TD's is reasonable to expect.  I hope that's the case because I think it's necessary to evaluate the offense and WR's.   Over 16 games it's producing 206 total yards average per game.  

Edited July 31, 2018 by White Linen
added

[Hapless Bills Fan]

45 minutes ago, White Linen said:

 

I took total production into account that's why I didn't say passing.  I would think 3,300 yards and 18 TD's is reasonable to expect.  I hope that's the case because I think it's necessary to evaluate the offense and WR's.   Over 16 games it's producing 206 total yards average per game.  

 

Those are realistic numbers, and within AJM’s grasp given decent WR and OL play, but they would be equivalent to Tyrod’s TDs last year and a bit less than his passing + rushing yardage.  Your post to which I was responding suggested these numbers could be easily out-matched.  Anything is possible but projecting from production so far that may not be reasonable to expect of either Peterman or AJM.

In case it’s not clear, I’m not in any way objecting to the trade of Tyrod.  Moving on was the right thing to do and it helped us land Edmunds, who may be the lynchpin we need for our D or at worst a good player.  I just have a note of caution for those who feel any ‘ol QB can outproduce Tyrod, even in 2017 (worst year).  Maybe.  Maybe not.

 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

6 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Those are realistic numbers, and are possibly within AJM’s grasp given decent WR, but they would be equivalent to Tyrod’s TDs last year and a bit less than his passing + rushing yardage.  Your post to which I was responding suggested these numbers could be easily out-matched - I guess anything is possible but projecting from production so far that may not be reasonable to expect of either Peterman or AJM.

But the point being missed was the dependence on having TT rush for 40 ypg and actually scoring a TD or more with his legs.  

 

That dependence was more a crutch crutch than any aid in winning games as time went on. 

 

Make him a QB.   

 

[Avisan]

10 hours ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

Here is how the Bills have split quarterback reps in regular 11-on-11 drills through the first four practices of training camp: First team: AJ McCarron (19), Nathan Peterman (17), Josh Allen (9); Second team: Peterman (23), McCarron (22); Third team: Allen (35), Peterman (5), McCarron (4).

 

 

 

For those asking about reps 

Oh, I always thought that was a cuss word in Yiddish .....  

 

    LOL 

 

Well, that certainly puts things into perspective.

 

Hope Allen puts it together, but he's got a lot of habits to learn and unlearn before he's ready.

[transplantbillsfan]

20 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

I'm sure that would be a lovely discussion for you to have with someone.

 

I totally understand. You have no confidence he'll make my relatively easy benchmark.

 

 

 

 

If calling a weasel a weasel is something you would consider bitter, then yeah, you'd consider that post bitter.

 

 

 

 

Boring and off-target both at once. You're on a high today.

 

Go read what I said. That way you won't misunderstand it post after post after post after post.

 

In my very first reply to you I gave you credit for the third day and said that's 20%. Mr. Geary's post then means that you still have credit for the same day, the 3rd day, which means you're still 20% of the way there.

 

And plenty of writers say someone had the best day if that's what they feel. Joe Buscaglia and Nate Geary in the stories you pointed out, for example.

 

Or Buscaglia's report on Day 4, when he said, "McCarron has the best day of the bunch but Peterman improved, too."

 

 

 

And I'm only asking for one for each day.

 

Pssssst....

 

Day 1 of Training Camp... also from Joe B:

https://www.wkbw.com/sports/bills/joe-b-7-observations-from-2018-buffalo-bills-training-camp-day-1

1) Josh Allen fights the nerves for an up-and-down day
- Those fans that came to the first day of training camp for the Bills that were hoping for Josh Allen to blow everybody away throughout the entire practice didn't exactly get that. What they did get was a balanced combination of throws that drew some "oohs" and "aahs," along with others that made fans emit something that sounds like, "ugh." Allen, as the Bills intended, took the first day of camp while working almost exclusively with the third-team offense -- except when the Bills went into offensive walkthroughs, which is when he made his first-team reps. However, it is quite hard to ignore the simple fact that as compared to Nathan Peterman and A.J. McCarron, it isn't even close as to who has the most natural talent on the field of the quarterbacks. Allen is a gifted thrower when he's on target, and he showed it off on two team drill reps early in practice -- both of which to Robert Foster. The first, he floated one in right over the shoulder that hit the receiver perfectly in stride, showing a true touch in his first day. On the other fantastic throw, he hit Foster on a flag pattern to the right sideline -- which is a real strength for him. However, the end of practice didn't go so well for Allen. It was something that was a bit of a bugaboo for him during college, but on two short throws -- one rolling right and right in front of him, and the other a throw to the flat -- Allen airmailed it both times. On the last play of the practice, the Bills called Allen down on a would-be sack. So, again, some good and some bad -- without any interceptions -- but he's got to go through some rookie growing pains. The good news for the Bills is that he was the best quarterback on the field, for what it's worth on Day One.

 

Just face it, the absurdity of your hyperbolic skepticism has been debunked.

 

4 days of Training Camp and Allen has been identified by one or more Bills beat reporters as the best QB of practice 2 times already.

 

Yep, Allen only has a 5-10% (remember how it started as just 5 and you added the 10 later as though it was what you always said? ) chance of being the day 1 starter...

Edited July 31, 2018 by transplantbillsfan

[transplantbillsfan]

16 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Thanks.   It's obvious, but thanks.   This states correctly when Allen is.   

 

If he DOESN'T pass Peterman on the depth chart as the result of the first preseason game, then he'll be stuck at 3 with some occasional first-team reps.   At the point, his only realistic objective would seem to be to pass Peterman for the backup spot.   He'll go into the second preseason game playing with the threes, and he'll need the second game to try to climb over Nate.   But by then, AJ will be in the number 1 spot, he'll get first team in the third preseason game and the fourth, and there's essentially no opportunity for Allen to pass him.  

 

So Allen has a couple of critical weeks ahead of him.  These two weeks likely determine whether he has a shot at starting as a rookie.   He has to show the progress McDermott is looking for; if it doesn't happen now, Allen has a year of grooming ahead of him.  Not the worst thing in the world - if he can't climb the hill fast enough to start this season, then he has a year to climb it.  If he can't climb it by then, the Bills may have gotten the wrong guy.  Only exception would be if AJ really lights it up, Bills go to the playoffs.   Then AJ is the presumptive starter in 2019, and it's tough for Allen to unseat him.  

 

Let's be honest here...

 

it's all critical.

 

Allen is the only 1 of the QBs who has trended upwards throughout OTAs and Minicamp and Training Camp pretty much the entire way.

 

Remember after OTAs how everyone was saying Minicamp was critical?

 

I actually think at this point McDermott is looking harder for reasons NOT to start Allen than reasons TO start him.

15 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

Should anyone be shocked that a first round draft pick is a factor in the QB race?  About as much shock as finding out that water is wet.

 

He may be a factor, but to me it would be a shock if McCarron isn't behind center opening day. 

 

Seriously???

 

A guy who's played in 5 regular season games and thrown less than 200 career passes???

 

You're shocked easily.

[transplantbillsfan]

14 hours ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

Here is how the Bills have split quarterback reps in regular 11-on-11 drills through the first four practices of training camp: First team: AJ McCarron (19), Nathan Peterman (17), Josh Allen (9); Second team: Peterman (23), McCarron (22); Third team: Allen (35), Peterman (5), McCarron (4).

 

 

 

For those asking about reps

 

And my guess is Allen is gonna get the most 1st team reps tomorrow based on McDermott's statement that they're going to start rotating reps.

 

Allen is next in the rotation.

 

If that happens, this rep count changes quickly.

Edited July 31, 2018 by transplantbillsfan

[transplantbillsfan]

13 hours ago, Foxx said:

sometimes a step backwards is really a step forward.

 

You gonna tell us to sand the floor next?

[transplantbillsfan]

12 hours ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

IF.     9 snaps with the 1's facing no pressure.   Lets not get ahead of ourselves.   

 

AJ nearly won a freaking playoff game against the Steelers until the Bungles Defense blew the game

 

And yet, 3 of the last 5 practices have gone to Allen in this QB race.

 

And lest we forget, McDermott said coming into TC that Allen would primarily be 3rd on the depth chart, but Allen seemed to force his hand quickly. Direct from the Buffalo Bills website:

 

Allen will regularly rotate in with the ones going forward. 

 

Head coach Sean McDermott confirmed Saturday morning that the rotation with the starting unit on offense will include all three quarterbacks for the foreseeable future.

 

 

Hey... remember how some posters thought there was a less than 10% chance of Allen winning this???

Edited July 31, 2018 by transplantbillsfan

[GunnerBill]

Just now, dneveu said:

 

To me it always comes down to the locker room. The rookie has to look the part and make the players believe he gives them the best chance to win. Thats the guy who should start. 

 

Equally the the other way around McDermott knows from past experience *cough* NateGate *cough* that you risk losing a locker room if you are not starting the best guy.  If Josh Allen is the best guy and they are starting AJM because of some preconceived 'plan' then they are implementing then the vets will see that too and that isn't always good for morale.  

2 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

And yet, 3 of the last 5 practices have gone to Allen in this QB race.

 

And lest we forget, McDermott said coming into TC that Allen would primarily be 3rd on the depth chart, but Allen seemed to force his hand quickly. Direct from the Buffalo Bills website:

 

Allen will regularly rotate in with the ones going forward. 

 

Head coach Sean McDermott confirmed Saturday morning that the rotation with the starting unit on offense will include all three quarterbacks for the foreseeable future.

 

 

Hey... remember how some posters thought there was a less than 10% chance of Allen winning this???

 

I see Joe B thought he was the best QB day 1 but that is definitely not the consensus opinion.  I have always thought this was in reality a fight between the guy who makes the fewest mistakes - AJ; and the guy who makes the most plays - Allen.  I expect AJ to continue to take the lions share of the 1st team snaps between now and the first pre-season game (he took ALL the 11v11 1st team snaps on Sunday) but Allen will mix in there some too and they will likely give Nate a few too.  If Allen balls out in the 1st pre-season game with the 3s and against 3s then I think you can expect him to start to see a larger split of the reps with the 1s going forward from that point.  I think that has always been "the process".  

 

Right now I give AJ a slight edge over Josh to be the week 1 starter but it is very possible that changes and regardless who starts week 1 I remain of the view that Josh will be in by week 4 or 5.  

[eball]

54 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Equally the the other way around McDermott knows from past experience *cough* NateGate *cough* that you risk losing a locker room if you are not starting the best guy.  If Josh Allen is the best guy and they are starting AJM because of some preconceived 'plan' then they are implementing then the vets will see that too and that isn't always good for morale.  

 

I see Joe B thought he was the best QB day 1 but that is definitely not the consensus opinion.  I have always thought this was in reality a fight between the guy who makes the fewest mistakes - AJ; and the guy who makes the most plays - Allen.  I expect AJ to continue to take the lions share of the 1st team snaps between now and the first pre-season game (he took ALL the 11v11 1st team snaps on Sunday) but Allen will mix in there some too and they will likely give Nate a few too.  If Allen balls out in the 1st pre-season game with the 3s and against 3s then I think you can expect him to start to see a larger split of the reps with the 1s going forward from that point.  I think that has always been "the process".  

 

Right now I give AJ a slight edge over Josh to be the week 1 starter but it is very possible that changes and regardless who starts week 1 I remain of the view that Josh will be in by week 4 or 5.  

 

Agree with just about everything here.  McD and Beane know you can't really continue to split 1st team reps between 3 guys for much longer, so the 1st preseason game is the evaluation tool for determining which two guys are competing going forward -- with an eye towards identifying the starter by preseason game #3.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

Quote

3 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

And yet, 3 of the last 5 practices have gone to Allen in this QB race.

 

And lest we forget, McDermott said coming into TC that Allen would primarily be 3rd on the depth chart, but Allen seemed to force his hand quickly. Direct from the Buffalo Bills website:

 

Allen will regularly rotate in with the ones going forward. 

 

Head coach Sean McDermott confirmed Saturday morning that the rotation with the starting unit on offense will include all three quarterbacks for the foreseeable future.

 

Define "regular".    5 or less?   10 or less?  

 

I've already highlighted the snapcount with the 1's thus far.  9.   

 

We all hope that increases.  Wiill it surpass AJ's or NP's 35 totals?  I'm not that sure it will for a while yet. 

 

9 more days 

then we'll see what JA does in a glorified NFL practice game

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

11 hours ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

But the point being missed was the dependence on having TT rush for 40 ypg and actually scoring a TD or more with his legs.  

That dependence was more a crutch crutch than any aid in winning games as time went on. 

Make him a QB.  

 

The point being discussed is whether it's realistic to expect last year's offensive production to be out-matched by 2 of our 3 QB (the vets).

 

I don't see how your personal opinion on "dependence" and "crutch" is germaine to discussing that point.  What the offensive production was last year and the two years before are facts, and in the history books, and can be established and compared to what's been seen from McCarron and Peterman so far in NFL games and preseasons.

 

It seems you want to turn every point about our offense into a reiteration of your opinion on Tyrod Taylor.  Prove me wrong going forward.

[26CornerBlitz]

On 7/30/2018 at 9:48 AM, 26CornerBlitz said:

How Bills QB Josh Allen is trying to fix his short-throw issues

PITTSFORD, N.Y. – Josh Allen knows his critics are out there. He just doesn’t know, or care, what they say about him.

 

He does know, however, why he struggles sometimes on shorter throws, and what he has to do to correct it.

 

In an interview with Postmedia following the Buffalo Bills’ fourth practice of training camp at St. John Fisher College, the 6-foot-5 237-pound cannon-armed rookie went there, in some detail.

 

Kryk was on WGR this morning to talk about his interviews with Beane and Allen:

 

7-31: John Kryk of the Toronto Sun with Howard and Jeremy (13:03)

[C.Biscuit97]

Did people not think the highest drafted qb in Bills history won’t be a factor in a race with 2 average 5th round picks?

[eball]

22 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Did people not think the highest drafted qb in Bills history won’t be a factor in a race with 2 average 5th round picks?

 

Sure, lots of them who, like yourself, expect him to be a colossal bust.

[C.Biscuit97]

6 minutes ago, eball said:

 

Sure, lots of them who, like yourself, expect him to be a colossal bust.

Sure homer.  I disagreed with the pick but never once wanted him to prove me wrong.  But even if he isn’t a franchise qb, it would be one of the worst picks in nfl history if he couldn’t compete with one of the worst groups of qbs in the league. 

[donbb]

Is McCarron traded should Allen win the job?

[Dr. Who]

4 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Sure homer.  I disagreed with the pick but never once wanted him to prove me wrong.  But even if he isn’t a franchise qb, it would be one of the worst picks in nfl history if he couldn’t compete with one of the worst groups of qbs in the league. 

There was actually a Rosenite who left the message board in a fit of pique when Allen was selected. He was certain it would take at least two years of development before Allen could conceivably see the field. Other than Holy Overreaction, Batman, Allen's early performance, standing on its own merits and having nothing whatsoever to do with whether he is competing against Aaron Rodgers or not, has been promising. 

[Heitz]

10 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Sure homer.  I disagreed with the pick but never once wanted him to prove me wrong.  But even if he isn’t a franchise qb, it would be one of the worst picks in nfl history if he couldn’t compete with one of the worst groups of qbs in the league. 

 

In the HISTORY OF THE NFL!  Bwaaaaa haaaaaa haaaaa...

 

Oh man, you really had me going until this post, now I KNOW you're just messing with us!

Edited July 31, 2018 by Heitz

[C.Biscuit97]

1 minute ago, Heitz said:

 

In the HISTORY OF THE NFL!  Bwaaaaa haaaaaa haaaaa...

 

Oh man, you really had me going until this post, now I KNOW you're just messing with us!

Definitely didn’t mean history!  But it is probsbly one of the worst groups right now ( can you name a worse group?).  AJ is an ok backup and Peterman looked like he didn’t belong in the nfl.  Obviously it could change.  But even with his issues, Allen is the far superior physical talent.  He should be making more wow plays than those 2.

9 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

There was actually a Rosenite who left the message board in a fit of pique when Allen was selected. He was certain it would take at least two years of development before Allen could conceivably see the field. Other than Holy Overreaction, Batman, Allen's early performance, standing on its own merits and having nothing whatsoever to do with whether he is competing against Aaron Rodgers or not, has been promising. 

That’s fair.  

[eball]

19 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Sure homer.  I disagreed with the pick but never once wanted him to prove me wrong.  But even if he isn’t a franchise qb, it would be one of the worst picks in nfl history if he couldn’t compete with one of the worst groups of qbs in the league. 

 

I'm as level-headed as they come; no need to get testy.  And I didn't say you're rooting for Allen to fail, just that you expect him to.  Is that not true?

[C.Biscuit97]

4 minutes ago, eball said:

 

I'm as level-headed as they come; no need to get testy.  And I didn't say you're rooting for Allen to fail, just that you expect him to.  Is that not true?

Haha, given my history, I just wanted to call someone a homer for once! ?

 

i dont know.  This sucks.  I guess this is how people felt when the Bills picked guys like Maybin, Losman, and EJ.  I defended those picks not necessarily because I believed in them but I wanted the Bills to be right.  I don’t want to be right about Allen. I want him to succeed but I don’t know how to talk myself into it.  It’s a crappy feeling. 

[Stank_Nasty]

40 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Haha, given my history, I just wanted to call someone a homer for once! ?

 

i dont know.  This sucks.  I guess this is how people felt when the Bills picked guys like Maybin, Losman, and EJ.  I defended those picks not necessarily because I believed in them but I wanted the Bills to be right.  I don’t want to be right about Allen. I want him to succeed but I don’t know how to talk myself into it.  It’s a crappy feeling. 

i wasn't a huge fan of the allen pick. I also havnt been all doom and gloom about it though because if anyone has watched the nfl they know that acting like they know how a qb is gonna pan out is a losing venture. with all that being said, so far this offseason, even though I wasn't a fan of the pick the bolded hasn't been very hard for me. he's been fairly impressive. I dunno how people cant see the arrow pointing up.

[Royale with Cheese]

I think Peter King loves football more than Joey Chestnutt loves hot dogs.

[Jay_Fixit]

1 minute ago, Royale with Cheese said:

I think Peter King loves football more than Joey Chestnutt loves hot dogs.

Or than you love DDL?

[Royale with Cheese]

Just now, Jay_Fixit said:

Or than you love DDL?

 

He's retired so it's time to move on.

Tom Hardy or Gary Oldman have a chance to takeover.

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[John from Riverside]

20 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Yep

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

4 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Mic drop

 

Dont rush JA.   

[The Senator]

As I’ve said in previous threads, JA WILL BE( and should be, our starting WB week one.

 

otherwisr, McBeane are just wasting games and valuable development time.

 

JMO

 

GO BILLSSS!!!

 

19 and 0 baby!!!!!!

[BuffaloMatt]

On 7/29/2018 at 8:55 AM, dollars 2 donuts said:

 

 

3 QBs at a total of what...I think 11 million dollars, plus a rebuilt oline....I agree.  They keep all of them.

Without a doubt!

[26CornerBlitz]

[reddogblitz]

On 7/30/2018 at 11:52 PM, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Let's be honest here...

 

it's all critical.

 

Allen is the only 1 of the QBs who has trended upwards throughout OTAs and Minicamp and Training Camp pretty much the entire way.

 

Remember after OTAs how everyone was saying Minicamp was critical?

 

I actually think at this point McDermott is looking harder for reasons NOT to start Allen than reasons TO start him.

 

Seriously???

 

A guy who's played in 5 regular season games and thrown less than 200 career passes???

 

You're shocked easily.

 

vs a guy with 3 NFL games and 2TD s 6 picks

vs a guy that has played 0 NFL games and was drafted AS A PROJECT.

 

Not that shocking.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

Quote

On 7/31/2018 at 2:52 AM, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Let's be honest here...

 

it's all critical.

 

Allen is the only 1 of the QBs who has trended upwards throughout OTAs and Minicamp and Training Camp pretty much the entire way.

 

 

When you start at the bottom                      one would hope he's trending upwards 

 

Rookie QB Josh Allen went 1-for-3 in two 11-on-11 periods Tuesday, both in the red zone. With the first-team offense, Allen's only pass attempt was a laser to Kelvin Benjamin in the end zone that bounced off Benjamin's chest and fell incomplete.

 

from 3 days ago

Mike RodakESPN Staff Writer 

Here is how the Bills have split quarterback reps in regular 11-on-11 drills through the first four practices of training camp: First team: AJ McCarron (19), Nathan Peterman (17), Josh Allen (9); Second team: Peterman (23), McCarron (22); Third team: Allen (35), Peterman (5), McCarron (4).

 

Where does all of this FAKE News come from??? 

 

 

9 plus  maybe 5 on Tuesday = 14 snaps with the 1's