Allen already a factor in QB race ?

[teef]

14 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Frankly I am there as well

 

Josh Allen is gonna happen eventually....but it seems to me like AJM is as advertised.....a steady veteran....no wow plays....just completes throws with decent accuracy

 

Unless Josh completely blows away his competition there is NOTHING wrong with giving him a hold the clipboard year and let him see how the NFL works.....let AJM take the enterprise out of home dock.......let our probably greatly improved defense do their thing.....and then next year use that cap space and the wonderful fact that we didnt sacrifice our 1st round pick to get more talent on the offensive side of the ball......

 

If Allen gets on the field one way or another this year......so be it

exactly.  i think if the defense is stout and the run game shows better than average production, AJM may be more than enough to move the chains, (i'm not talking an explosive offense) and hold down the fort.  as you said, it's allen's job.  if he waits a month, half a season or even all year to take the reigns, i'm ok with it.  i'd be surprised if he didn't start at some point this season though.

Edited July 30, 2018 by teef

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

2 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Frankly I am there as well

 

Josh Allen is gonna happen eventually....but it seems to me like AJM is as advertised.....a steady veteran....no wow plays....just completes throws with decent accuracy

 

Unless Josh completely blows away his competition there is NOTHING wrong with giving him a hold the clipboard year and let him see how the NFL works.....let AJM take the enterprise out of home dock.......let our probably greatly improved defense do their thing.....and then next year use that cap space and the wonderful fact that we didnt sacrifice our 1st round pick to get more talent on the offensive side of the ball......

 

If Allen gets on the field one way or another this year......so be it

 

To me it always comes down to the locker room. The rookie has to look the part and make the players believe he gives them the best chance to win. Thats the guy who should start. 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

2 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Frankly I am there as well

 

Josh Allen is gonna happen eventually....but it seems to me like AJM is as advertised.....a steady veteran....no wow plays....just completes throws with decent accuracy

 

Unless Josh completely blows away his competition there is NOTHING wrong with giving him a hold the clipboard year and let him see how the NFL works.....let AJM take the enterprise out of home dock.......let our probably greatly improved defense do their thing.....and then next year use that cap space and the wonderful fact that we didnt sacrifice our 1st round pick to get more talent on the offensive side of the ball......

 

If Allen gets on the field one way or another this year......so be it

To start off do we really need WOW plays?  All we need is a WIN.  Who better to face the Ravens that a guy who has faced them (albeit from the sidelines) for the last 3 seasons? 

[BuffaloHokie13]

Just now, ShadyBillsFan said:

To start off do we really need WOW plays?  All we need is a WIN.  Who better to face the Ravens that a guy who has faced them (albeit from the sidelines) for the last 3 seasons? 

If someone else is a better QB I'd rather have that one play ?

[John from Riverside]

1 minute ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

To start off do we really need WOW plays?  All we need is a WIN.  Who better to face the Ravens that a guy who has faced them (albeit from the sidelines) for the last 3 seasons? 

The W is good enough for me

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

26 minutes ago, teef said:

i'm still at the mental point where i prefer this.

 

I don't know what I prefer at this point, frankly.

 

Hopefully Beane is right that at some point during preseason, it will become obvious.

 

[White Linen]

45 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Frankly I am there as well

 

Josh Allen is gonna happen eventually....but it seems to me like AJM is as advertised.....a steady veteran....no wow plays....just completes throws with decent accuracy

 

Unless Josh completely blows away his competition there is NOTHING wrong with giving him a hold the clipboard year and let him see how the NFL works.....let AJM take the enterprise out of home dock.......let our probably greatly improved defense do their thing.....and then next year use that cap space and the wonderful fact that we didnt sacrifice our 1st round pick to get more talent on the offensive side of the ball......

 

If Allen gets on the field one way or another this year......so be it

 

I agree with this 100%.  Nicely said.

[Figster]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Given the fact that AJM did play a stretch of games and a playoff game, I think he could be argued as having a legit starter.  He's certainly demonstrated low-level starter abilities.  Whether it means anything for Allen to beat AJM out depends entirely on how Daboll and McDermott (and Beane I guess) are grading. 

 

The real Achilles heel of the 2013 strategy was the personnel choices.  Nix replaced a very durable, available guy (Fitz) with German-word-for-made-of-Glass Kolb.

Nix also passed over one of the best, richest QB drafts in recent memory to take the "best" guy in one of the worst classes.  Would you feel better if the Bills had signed Cherokee-word-for-made-of-Glass Bradford as a starter for $20M?     I wouldn't.

 

 

What I find interesting is what ESPN calls QB confidence rankings If I remember correctly has Buffalo ranked last in the NFL.

 

Yet from a Bills fan perspective I'm of the impression the Buffalo Bills have done an outstanding job in an attempt to upgrade the position.

 

Fan of all 3 signal callers... 

[BuffaloHokie13]

2 minutes ago, Figster said:

What I find interesting is what ESPN calls QB confidence rankings If I remember correctly has Buffalo ranked last in the NFL.

 

Yet from a Bills fan perspective I'm of the impression the Buffalo Bills have done an outstanding job in an attempt to upgrade the position.

 

Fan of all 3 signal callers... 

You can like the prospects but lack confidence due to the minimal experience, I think.

[Figster]

2 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

You can like the prospects but lack confidence due to the minimal experience, I think.

3 QB's with less then a half dozen NFL starts combined,

 

absolutely

Edited July 30, 2018 by Figster

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

57 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

To start off do we really need WOW plays?  All we need is a WIN.  Who better to face the Ravens that a guy who has faced them (albeit from the sidelines) for the last 3 seasons? 

 

57 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

If someone else is a better QB I'd rather have that one play ?

 

Best guy plays - it shows in practice/film study and the other players respect the decision of the best guy playing.  

[John from Riverside]

2 minutes ago, dneveu said:

 

 

Best guy plays - it shows in practice/film study and the other players respect the decision of the best guy playing.  

I think the real question is not what the fans think is the best guy but what do the coaches think is the best guy.

 

Fans want bombs.....touchdowns.....400 yard passing games.....lots of receiving touchdowns.

 

A defensive coach wants to control the ball...not turn the ball over....win with his defense

 

Now.....the problem here is that ppl think a player like TT not turning the ball over is what a coach wants.....I dont necessarily agree with that I think that going 4 and out might be considered the same as a turnover if the QB is not pulling the trigger on his throws....

 

I get this small feeling that AJM is being equivilated to TT......I think AJM is probably more equivilated to the QB that the Kansas City Chiefs just traded away.....I think that THIS coaching staff probably wouldnt hate that especially to start.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

50 minutes ago, Figster said:

What I find interesting is what ESPN calls QB confidence rankings If I remember correctly has Buffalo ranked last in the NFL.

 

Yet from a Bills fan perspective I'm of the impression the Buffalo Bills have done an outstanding job in an attempt to upgrade the position.

 

Fan of all 3 signal callers... 

 

I think what the Bills have done is acquire players with the *potential* to upgrade the QB position

 

But the proof is in the playing, and there's not much of that to hang confidence on.

[Boca BIlls]

Allen will start week 1

[Foxx]

sometimes a step backwards is really a step forward.

Edited July 30, 2018 by Foxx

[Hapless Bills Fan]

32 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

I think the real question is not what the fans think is the best guy but what do the coaches think is the best guy.

 

Indeed.  And their metrics may be quite different from what the fans see.

 

32 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

I get this small feeling that AJM is being equivilated to TT......I think AJM is probably more equivilated to the QB that the Kansas City Chiefs just traded away.....I think that THIS coaching staff probably wouldnt hate that especially to start.

 

There have been some comparisons between AJM and TT, and good and bad, that's probably not accurate.

AJM is far less of a threat to run than TT or even Alex Smith (who has been a far more mobile QB in KC than most people think).

AJM appears more capable of running a pro passing game - making reads and progressions, audibling - than TT could.  In his appearances to date he's been a 200 ypg passing guy (TT in 2015/16).  But they will be different yards - more from the pocket/within the game plan, less improvised scrambling.

 

AJM is not even in the same zip code as Alex Smith for passing productivity right now.  270 ypg, 8 ypa - have not been seen from AJ to date.

1 minute ago, Foxx said:

sometimes a step backwards is really a step forward.

 

"good is the enemy of great"

[White Linen]

24 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I think what the Bills have done is acquire players with the *potential* to upgrade the QB position

 

But the proof is in the playing, and there's not much of that to hang confidence on.

 

I agree but just to take it step further, they do have proof of what Tyrod was.  It's not unreasonable to think his production can be out matched - the real question is can the team absorb the likelihood of more turnovers.  The secondary thing is Tyrod makes it very difficult to identify what you have in receivers and he does not execute an offense.  I think AJ gives us the best chance to evaluate the offense and receivers.   

Edited July 30, 2018 by White Linen
spelled something wrong

[reddogblitz]

5 minutes ago, Boca BIlls said:

Allen will start week 1

 

Thanks.  Now I don't have to watch pre season. 

 

How will stocks do between now and then?   Any tips on FaceBook stock? Buy or sell?

[Boca BIlls]

28 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

 

Thanks.  Now I don't have to watch pre season. 

 

How will stocks do between now and then?   Any tips on FaceBook stock? Buy or sell?

I love when people say stupid **** like this.

 

Gets you so angry you say dumb ****.

Edited July 30, 2018 by Boca BIlls

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

2 hours ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

If someone else is a better QB I'd rather have that one play ?

IF.     9 snaps with the 1's facing no pressure.   Lets not get ahead of ourselves.   

 

AJ nearly won a freaking playoff game against the Steelers until the Bungles Defense blew the game 

 

1 hour ago, dneveu said:

 

 

Best guy plays - it shows in practice/film study and the other players respect the decision of the best guy playing.  

Naturally best guy plays.    I don't think the "best guy" will be AJ at that time.  

[reddogblitz]

6 minutes ago, Boca BIlls said:

I love when people say stupid **** like this.

 

Gets you so angry you say dumb ****.

 

So you can only predict with accuracy who the Bills starting QB will be?  Got it.  Thanks.  I'll get my stock picks from someone who can predict the WHOLE future, not just parts of it.

 

I'm not mad, are you?

 

I just think it's stupid **** when people make pronouncements about future events that are very much up in the air.  You may think that, but stating it as a fact is stupid **** IMHO.

 

Go BILLS !!

[John from Riverside]

3 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

 

So you can only predict with accuracy who the Bills starting QB will be?  Got it.  Thanks.  I'll get my stock picks from someone who can predict the WHOLE future, not just parts of it.

 

I'm not mad, are you?

 

I just think it's stupid **** when people make pronouncements about future events that are very much up in the air.  You may think that, but stating it as a fact is stupid **** IMHO.

 

Go BILLS !!

****

[reddogblitz]

Just now, John from Riverside said:

****

 

Brilliant!

[John from Riverside]

1 minute ago, reddogblitz said:

 

Brilliant!

[teef]

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, White Linen said:

 

I agree but just to take it step further, they do have proof of what Tyrod was.  It's not unreasonable to think his production can be out matched -

 

It's not unreasonable in the broad sense, but when you consider his total productivity (passing + running) there isn't any past history to suggest this from 2 of our 3 QB.

I know that's not what folks want to hear, but it's keeping it real.

 

1 hour ago, Boca BIlls said:

Allen will start week 1

 

Good to know.  Care to mosey on over to Gunner Bill's thread and predict the rest of the 53 man, complete with depth chart?

[eball]

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

It's not unreasonable in the broad sense, but when you consider his total productivity (passing + running) there isn't any past history to suggest this from 2 of our 3 QB.

I know that's not what folks want to hear, but it's keeping it real.

 

 

If you only measure productivity in terms of yardage, perhaps.  Tyrod's performance in the area of point production was below average, and that's the statistic that needs to improve.

[Sky Diver]

What does race have do with anything? 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

14 minutes ago, Sky Diver said:

What does race have do with anything? 

 

Smartass.  Always one in the crowd.  Shadddup.  (Love ya Diver)

[Shaw66]

3 hours ago, dneveu said:

 

 

Best guy plays - it shows in practice/film study and the other players respect the decision of the best guy playing.  

Pretty simple.  The coach isn't going to keep the best guy on the bench.   Players want the best guy on the field.  

 

The players AND the coach will know in a few weeks. That's when we will know too.

[John from Riverside]

8 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Pretty simple.  The coach isn't going to keep the best guy on the bench.   Players want the best guy on the field.  

 

The players AND the coach will know in a few weeks. That's when we will know too.

Like Debol (sp) said......"this has a way of working itself out....it always does"

[Augie]

6 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Pretty simple.  The coach isn't going to keep the best guy on the bench.   Players want the best guy on the field.  

 

The players AND the coach will know in a few weeks. That's when we will know too.

 

That’s very true, but it’s not as simple as a basic math formula where a number pops up and you pick the largest digit. There are a lot of factors involved, and a lot of unknowns. I hope if Allen does start week one, he’s by FAR the obvious choice. If it’s close, I’m not sure I want him to break in against the defenses we face early. I’m not saying he can’t or shouldn't start early. Who knows at this point? I just hope we play it cautious. But hey, that’s just me....

 

But yes, the players and coaches want to do what gives us the best chance to WIN.

[blacklabel]

4 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

The real questions that need encouraging answers are:

1) can he master the passes where he is inaccurate - the short passes, the dump-offs?  A point guard in Bball has to hit the bunnies, a QB in the NFL has to hit the dump-offs and the 0-10 yd range

2) can he master the offense and read the defense well enough to make good decisions with the ball?  People frustrated with Taylor's conservatism fail to remember how frustrated we all became when "Fitzmagic" (who unlike Edwards, would actually make reads and take shots downfield) became "Pickspatrick" because of his pattern to make bad decisions and throw picks at the worst time of the game.

 

Those are questions I absolutely take into account. I was just commenting that it's encouraging to see that he hasn't tried to change what he already does well. I think, at best, Allen can be a hell of a QB but also a guy that's going to throw some picks and frustrate you a little bit. I know that after the first camp practice, a lot of people wanted to point out how poorly he missed on a dump off on his last throw of the day. He was on One Bills Live the next day and said that it was a play he had never run before and he got caught thinking too much. He said since the back was so close to him he wasn't sure if he should just kinda underhand pitch it to him or actually try to throw it. His arm didn't really get the message, hence the ball floated on him and it looked bad, but stuff like that's gonna happen. 

 

And yes, it was easy to become frustrated with Taylor. He certainly could hit the deep ball, but his issue was that he simply couldn't see the field well (partially because of his height) and that he's a "see it, throw it" passer as opposed to an anticipatory passer. Doesn't throw guys open, has to see them come open before he throws it. I saw a Browns camp highlight of him on Saturday. Landry ran a hell of a deep route, completely burned his guy, but had to slow up to catch the pass from Taylor because Taylor waits too long to throw it and then when he does, he doesn't always put it out in front.

 

As for Fitz, ah, bless ol' Fitz, great dude, smart as hell... not the best arm, and that's his main drawback. He can make all the reads and adjustments you need but when it comes down to it he just doesn't have the juice to hit a 15-yard out to the opposite side of the field or hit a man in stride on a deep ball. A lot of his picks happen because he just doesn't have a lot of speed and velocity on his throws, that gives DBs more time/chances to break on his throws. And yes, he would toss picks at the worst possible time. I always felt like that was happening because he was simply trying to do too much. I think he has a bit of the gunslinger mentality and when it's late and his team is down, he's gonna try to take shots with the hopes that something good happens. 

[Putin]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

It's not unreasonable in the broad sense, but when you consider his total productivity (passing + running) there isn't any past history to suggest this from 2 of our 3 QB.

I know that's not what folks want to hear, but it's keeping it real.

 

 

Good to know.  Care to mosey on over to Gunner Bill's thread and predict the rest of the 53 man, complete with depth chart?

Total productivity passing + rushing ? 

when your passing offense is ranked 31st 

( almost dead last ) in the league ,  bringing up his rushing numbers ( IMO ) is like putting lipstick ? on a pig ? !!! 

 I guess people forgot how many games last year we only managed to score 3 points , including that miserable/pathetic performance in the playoff game !!!

Is that keeping it REAL enough for you ?

 

Edited July 30, 2018 by Putin

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Just now, Putin said:

Total productivity passing + rushing ? 

when your passing offense is ranked 31st 

( almost dead last ) in the league ,  bringing up his rushing numbers ( IMO ) is like putting lipstick ? on a pig ? !!! 

 I guess people forgot how many games last year we only managed to score 3 points , including that miserable/pathetic performance in the playoff game !!!

 

I saw some numbers scrawled on a wall in lipstick.   The numbers were 12, 11, and 22.    I wonder what they mean?

 

Personally, I think people may forget the number "9" as well, while focusing on 3 3-point games and how things can't possibly get any worse, offensively 'cuz, 31

 

I hope they don't, but in fact, they can.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

1 hour ago, Augie said:

 

That’s very true, but it’s not as simple as a basic math formula where a number pops up and you pick the largest digit. There are a lot of factors involved, and a lot of unknowns. I hope if Allen does start week one, he’s by FAR the obvious choice. If it’s close, I’m not sure I want him to break in against the defenses we face early. I’m not saying he can’t or shouldn't start early. Who knows at this point? I just hope we play it cautious. But hey, that’s just me....

 

But yes, the players and coaches want to do what gives us the best chance to WIN.

 

 

...could be an interesting call for McD....what if the QB competition is reasonably close between the 3?......let's say a real "toss up"?.......does he go conservative and have Allen sit behind whomever he chooses as the starter?.....OR.......does he start Allen, despite anticipating rook mistakes, for whatever reason?......stay tuned....

[3rdand12]

26 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

 

...could be an interesting call for McD....what if the QB competition is reasonably close between the 3?......let's say a real "toss up"?.......does he go conservative and have Allen sit behind whomever he chooses as the starter?.....OR.......does he start Allen, despite anticipating rook mistakes, for whatever reason?......stay tuned....

This is the conundrum isn't it ?

 and screw the fan base, what is the Right way to develop a QB long term.
I am of the camp to let him watch how AJ handles the blitz. How he handles everyone covered. the mismatches. the blown coverages and the bad play call getting stuffed.

 The DT in his face and telling him about his momma each play. how fast these opposing defenses really are. how frustrating it is when your guy runs a poor route or drops a big gain/ or worst of all? when your RT is a turnstile and you know you are going to get killed. what does he say we comes back to the sideline after a failed 3rdand12.

 Do not want to hold him back. But preseason and camp are NOT real games. so Coaches are guessing ( educatedly so  ) about what happens against guys who want each and everyone, want it as bad as your guys do. The Win .
If they can afford to let him learn, i am all for it.
 

Edited July 30, 2018 by 3rdand12

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

6 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

This is the conundrum isn't it ?

 and screw the fan base, what is the Right way to develop a QB long term.
I am of the camp to let him watch how AJ handles the blitz. How he handles everyone covered. the mismatches. the blown coverages and the bad play call getting stuffed.

 The DT in his face and telling him about his momma each play. how fast these opposing defenses really are. how frustrating it is when your guy runs a poor route or drops a big gain/ or worst of all? when your RT is a turnstile and you know you are going to get killed. what does he say we comes back to the sideline after a failed 3rdand12.

 Do not want to hold him back. But preseason and camp are NOT real games. so Coaches are guessing ( educatedly so  ) about what happens against guys who want each and everyone, want it as bad as your guys do. The Win .
If they can afford to let him learn, i am all for it.
 

 

 

...I'm 142% in agreement, so perhaps we BOTH should take cover from the ensuing TBD "well wishers"....

[Sky Diver]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Smartass.  Always one in the crowd.  Shadddup.  (Love ya Diver)

 

Right back at you. ❤️ 

[John from Riverside]

14 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

This is the conundrum isn't it ?

 and screw the fan base, what is the Right way to develop a QB long term.
I am of the camp to let him watch how AJ handles the blitz. How he handles everyone covered. the mismatches. the blown coverages and the bad play call getting stuffed.

 The DT in his face and telling him about his momma each play. how fast these opposing defenses really are. how frustrating it is when your guy runs a poor route or drops a big gain/ or worst of all? when your RT is a turnstile and you know you are going to get killed. what does he say we comes back to the sideline after a failed 3rdand12.

 Do not want to hold him back. But preseason and camp are NOT real games. so Coaches are guessing ( educatedly so  ) about what happens against guys who want each and everyone, want it as bad as your guys do. The Win .
If they can afford to let him learn, i am all for it.
 

The only thing I would say is Allen has had crappy line play his whole college career....so that would not be anything new for him.