Prediction: Nathan Peterman Bills Starting QB Wk. 1 vs. Ravens

[BuffaloHokie13]

12 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

The !@#$ing deep-out again.  I swear to god, it's been mentioned more in this thread than in the entirety of human history. I had no idea a 10 yard sideline pass was the holy grail of sports. Why even bother with a playbook, just run deep outs all game and may the best QB win.

Every route he can't throw makes it easier on the defense. His very first throw was an easy pick-6 if the defender wasn't an inevitable cut.

[Luka]

Peterman's NFL stats consist of a sub 50% completion and a 3-1 interception to touchdown ratio. He's thrown as many touchdowns to his own players as he has to the opposing team. He looked good last year in preseason as well.
 

The difference between him and Allen is I see Allen creating plays. I just don't see it from Peterman. He also nearly threw yet another pick six in the Cleveland game and he's unable to create once the pocket breaks down.

 

And judging from the starting offensive line so far, that's going to be an absolute deal breaker this year.

[Patrick Duffy]

2 hours ago, Kelly the Dog said:

That was Tasker who is always wrong. Just do yourself a favor and look at the play yourself. There are three total receivers to the right and three total defenders. To the left there is the safety and more defenders than receivers. Unless you want to give Peterman credit for being able to count to four, there was no sleuthing going on when he was reading the defense. If you go watch the play and come back here and try to explain why that was some really smart play it will be embarrassing. That was the only play. As soon as Peterman dropped back instantly he saw O'Leary's guy blitzing and O'Leary completely uncovered. It was a high school play. 

For an eight year old. 

For an eight year old. 

 

Then I take it that you are 7 or less years of age, that's clearly what recognition is, or at least a perfect example of it.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

30 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

There is an interview with Micah Hyde where he talks about Allen playing with the 1s today as well.

I’m sure they shared time.  

 

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, BullBuchanan said:

 

 

The !@#$ing deep-out again.  I swear to god, it's been mentioned more in this thread than in the entirety of human history. I had no idea a 10 yard sideline pass was the holy grail of sports. Why even bother with a playbook, just run deep outs all game and may the best QB win.

 

Man you are really working on this years “worst QB analysis” poster.  Not being able to effectively throw an out takes away about 30% of the field.  If you can’t understand the problem with that, then you should just never post about a QB again.

 

By the way, NP is the only Bills QB to turn the ball over this preseason, and he threw a pick 6 on an out to a guy who won’t even be on a roster in 2 weeks on his first pass Sunday...but it was dropped because that guys sucks.

 

NPs TD was another bad throw that almost cost the Bills a TD...but Nick broke a tackle to save the TD.  He was so open on broken coverage that my Mom could have thrown that TD and nick still walk in untouched.  But he threw it slow and behind Nick so he had to wait for it allowing the defender that was a mile away close on him.  But again, the crappy defender who likely will never play a regular season snap this year couldn’t make the play as Nick broke the tackle.

 

You are literally approaching Dog14787 status right now with your romantic crush on NP.

 

My favorite non sense from you is your complete lack of understanding how much it matters he can’t throw outside well enough at the NFL level.  Then again, maybe my actual favorite nonsense is how you over exaggerate the FIRST DRIVE of the first NFL preseason against a vanilla D no QB will ever see in a regular season game ever.   Then you grossly over exaggerate Josh Allen’s first NFL action in his whole career to be negative while also ignoring all real factors that played into that comp %.

 

I could keep pointing your totally biased analysis aimed at propping up NP and down grading Allen, but this would be about 25 paragraphs long, so I will just stop right here.

 

And I have nothing against NP, but I am being realistic about what he has shown rather than trying to score a date and have a baby with him like some people here.

Edited August 20, 2018 by Alphadawg7

[Kelly the Dog]

42 minutes ago, Patrick_Duffy said:

 

Then I take it that you are 7 or less years of age, that's clearly what recognition is, or at least a perfect example of it.

So you don't think that 100 out of 100 NFL quarterbacks would have looked at that defense Peterman was faced with, saw a safety and two defenders on two of our guys to the left, and saw only three defenders and no safety on our three receivers to the right, and wouldn't have immediately looked right, you know, where there were three single coverage guys, and seen one of them immediately rush, leaving his man wide open five yards down the field? That was some brilliant recognition?!! Watch the damn play. It's Pop Warner league stuff. You guys are embarrassing yourselves. 

[Ga boy]

35 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Man you are really working on this years “worst QB analysis” poster.  Not being able to effectively throw an out takes away about 30% of the field.  If you can’t understand the problem with that, then you should just never post about a QB again.

 

By the way, NP is the only Bills QB to turn the ball over this preseason, and he threw a pick 6 on an out to a guy who won’t even be on a roster in 2 weeks on his first pass Sunday...but it was dropped because that guys sucks.

 

NPs TD was another bad throw that almost cost the Bills a TD...but Nick broke a tackle to save the TD.  He was so open on broken coverage that my Mom could have thrown that TD and nick still walk in untouched.  But he threw it slow and behind Nick so he had to wait for it allowing the defender that was a mile away close on him.  But again, the crappy defender who likely will never play a regular season snap this year couldn’t make the play as Nick broke the tackle.

 

You are literally approaching Dog14787 status right now with your romantic crush on NP.

 

My favorite non sense from you is your complete lack of understanding how much it matters he can’t throw outside well enough at the NFL level.  Then again, maybe my actual favorite nonsense is how you over exaggerate the FIRST DRIVE of the first NFL preseason against a vanilla D no QB will ever see in a regular season game ever.   Then you grossly over exaggerate Josh Allen’s first NFL action in his whole career to be negative while also ignoring all real factors that played into that comp %.

 

I could keep pointing your totally biased analysis aimed at propping up NP and down grading Allen, but this would be about 25 paragraphs long, so I will just stop right here.

 

And I have nothing against NP, but I am being realistic about what he has shown rather than trying to score a date and have a baby with him like some people here.

Cmon dawg.  If you got 25 paragraphs, keep on punching those keys.  I am a lifelong learner, and I would like to hear more about why Peterman can't, and why so many have a bro crush on NP.  

 

[BullBuchanan]

42 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Man you are really working on this years “worst QB analysis” poster.  Not being able to effectively throw an out takes away about 30 to 40% of the field.  If you can’t understand the problem with that, then you should just never post about a QB again.

 

By the way, NP is the ONLY Bills QB to turn the ball over this preseason, and he threw a pick 6 to a guy who won’t even be on a roster in 2 weeks on his first pass Sunday...but it was dropped because that guys sucks.

 

NPs TD was another bad throw that almost cost the Bills a TD...but Nick broke a tackle to save the TD.  He was so open on broken coverage that my Mom could have thrown that TD and nick still walk in untouched.  But he threw it slow and behind Nick so he had to wait for it allowing the defender that was a mile away close on him.  But again, the crappy defender who likely will never play a regular season snap this year couldn’t make the play as Nick broke the tackle.

 

You are literally approaching Dog14787 status right now with your romantic crush on NP.

 

My favorite non sense from you is your complete lack of understanding how much it matters he can’t throw outside well enough at the NFL level.  Then again, maybe my actual favorite nonsense is how you over exaggerate the FIRST DRIVE of the first NFL preseason against a vanilla D no QB will ever see in a regular season game ever.   Then you grossly over exaggerate Josh Allen’s first NFL action in his whole career to be negative while also ignoring all real factors that played into that comp %.

 

I could keep pointing your totally biased nonsense, inaccurate analysis, and just outright ridiculosus statements.  But this would be about 25 paragraphs long, so I will just stop right here.

 

And I have nothing against NP, but I am being realistic about what he has shown rather than trying to score a date and have a baby with him like some people here.

Yawn. You've proven over and over again your incapable or unwilling to acknowledge the most basic principles of facts if they don't fit your agenda. An out route is one of dozens of routes available. Obviously the coaches are comfortable with his ability to handle it, otherwise he wouldn't be on the team. If they decide there are better routes for him, they'll run those instead. Nobody ever lambasted Peyton Manning because he didn't execute the best naked bootleg.

 

I don't expect any of you to acknowledge you were wrong when Allen's holding a clipboard week 1. I just expect more logical fallacies, excuses, and personal attacks until everyone forgets this was even a discussion.

Edited August 20, 2018 by BullBuchanan

[reddogblitz]

2 hours ago, Steptide said:

I've said, and I'll stick to it, that whoever gives us the best chance to win should start at qb. Having said that, if Allen had Peterman's stats this pre season, people would be crowning him the next Brady. If Peterman never started that Chargers game last year and had the same stats this pre season, people would be in love with him. That Chargers game left an un healable scar for alot of fans. I'm convinced at this point that there is absolutely nothing Peterman could do that would change some fans minds 

 

 "If ifs and buts were candy and nuts, we'd all have a Merry Christmas." - - Don Meredith

 

Are you willing to give Hotrod credit for a 2 Int season last Year since half of his picks bounced off of Clay's hands?

[transplantbillsfan]

2 hours ago, Lfod said:

I seen Peterman avoid pressure and make a nice throw to Kelvin Benjamin on the sideline. I seen the line getting pushed back on his drives but his quick pass negated it. 

 

Then I seen AJ get destroyed and I didn't think he played great in his first game. 

 

I'll tell you something, Josh Allen is looking good buddy. Just Peterman isn't so bad or lucky. He gets the job done and it's adequate. 

 

Adequate?

 

I won't even quibble with whether I agree or disagree about the other stuff--or the very use of the phrase "I seen" in any context-- but implying adequate is anything we'd be fine with at QB after pushing at-least-adequate out the door in the offseason in order to upgrade on at-least-adequate is very strange logic.

 

2 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

https://www.buffalobills.com/video/sean-mcdermott-a-step-in-the-right-direction

 

1:27 Tells me all I need to know about McDermott's thought process. "He made the guys around him better". Before the game he said he wanted to see if Nate could elevate the guys around him. The fact that NP came in with he 3rd unit in the second Half told me it was likely he was trying to cement his choice about who should be #1 by seeing if NP could command a bunch of guys that wouldn't be on the team. McCarron and Josh Allen were auditioning for #2 unless NP fell apart.

 

[Wily Dog]

2 hours ago, Warcodered said:

I suppose I was having trouble understanding your wild assumption. I mean you came up with a reason why he was with the 3s but it didn't really make a lot of sense. From what I've been seeing the contest between AJ and Peterman was pretty neck and neck and it was AJ's turn in game 2. So that left the 2s and 3s but Allen had done well and people wanted to see him with and against better players so he got the 2s. That left the 3s for Peterman which seeing if he could elevate them any is about all you could look for with them.

 

Didn't the announcers tell you that  McD wanted to see whether or not Peterman could elevate the 3rd string players to a level above themselves before Peterman  was on the field.? If you knew anything about football you would know that coaches rely on leaders that can " rally the troops " as they say.

[transplantbillsfan]

2 hours ago, BurpleBull said:

 

You lost me at "Brah".

 

I think this actually serves as a window into your reality.

 

We're halfway through the Preseason!!! Predict who wins the starting QB job for Week 1

Multiple exclamation points ???

 

Check.

 

Those numbers do in fact reflect reality...brah.

 

 

Window into my reality, huh?

 

What reality do you think that is?

 

I bet you're wrong.

 

The rest of that post makes no sense... so that means you're entire post makes no sense...

 

Good talk, breh (hint, hint... )

[Luka]

47 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

Yawn. You've proven over and over again your incapable or unwilling to acknowledge the most basic principles of facts if they don't fit your agenda. An out route is one of dozens of routes available. Obviously the coaches are comfortable with his ability to handle it, otherwise he wouldn't be on the team. If they decide there are better routes for him, they'll run those instead. Nobody ever lambasted Peyton Manning because he didn't execute the best naked bootleg.

 

I don't expect any of you to acknowledge you were wrong when Allen's holding a clipboard week 1. I just expect more logical fallacies, excuses, and personal attacks until everyone forgets this was even a discussion.

 

The bigger question is, if Allen starts, where will you be? Bet you won't be admitting you were wrong either.

 

The facts on Peterman. Sub 50% completion percentage. 3-1 INT to TD ratio. And that's in the NFL. That isn't college stats. He looked good in preseason last year too. So much so that they benched Tyrod for him to start against the Chargers. This is the same old song and dance as last year. He threw a pick in the Carolina game, almost a pick six in the Cleveland game.

 

That's a pattern.

[transplantbillsfan]

2 hours ago, Warcodered said:

There is an interview with Micah Hyde where he talks about Allen playing with the 1s today as well.

 

Yeah all the interviews today were indicators the competition is ongoing... not finished despite some wacky theories that Friday's game cemented Peterman as the starter already.

 

They're likely to "rotate" as the media is there, but since all practices and 11 on 11s are now closed to the media, I also think McDermott might be using that to his advantage as far as the element of surprise for week 1. 

 

I bet Allen gets his first team reps for the first time next Sunday. I'll be curious if McDermott holds out in naming the starter beyond that.

[Warcodered]

15 minutes ago, Wily Dog said:

 

Didn't the announcers tell you that  McD wanted to see whether or not Peterman could elevate the 3rd string players to a level above themselves before Peterman  was on the field.? If you knew anything about football you would know that coaches rely on leaders that can " rally the troops " as they say.

I agreed that was the only thing they could learn from him playing with the 3s. I was disagreeing with that being the reason he was playing with them instead of it being the only space left after AJ got the 1s and Allen the 2s.

[Foxx]

8 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Yeah all the interviews today were indicators the competition is ongoing... not finished despite some wacky theories that Friday's game cemented Peterman as the starter already.

 

They're likely to "rotate" as the media is there, but since all practices and 11 on 11s are now closed to the media, I also think McDermott might be using that to his advantage as far as the element of surprise for week 1. 

 

I bet Allen gets his first team reps for the first time next Sunday. I'll be curious if McDermott holds out in naming the starter beyond that.

he got first team reps friday night. albeit not a lot but he did get some.

Edited August 20, 2018 by Foxx

[Warcodered]

Just now, Foxx said:

he got first team reps friday night.

Was he against 1s though?

[Chandler#81]

1 hour ago, BullBuchanan said:

more logical fallacies

 

Is that like COWBELL?

[Wily Dog]

6 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

I agreed that was the only thing they could learn from him playing with the 3s. I was disagreeing with that being the reason he was playing with them instead of it being the only space left after AJ got the 1s and Allen the 2s.

 

That was the plan before the game . McCarron with the ones. Allen with the two's and Peterman with the three's. McCarron failed , Allen did great and Peterman fulfilled what McD wanted from him. so what"s the beef?

[transplantbillsfan]

8 minutes ago, Foxx said:

he got first team reps friday night. albeit not a lot but he did get some.

 

He did but I don't know if that was planned or because of McCarron's injury.

 

When he's the starter next Sunday in game 3, that'll be different.

[GoodHands15]

2 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Man you are really working on this years “worst QB analysis” poster.  Not being able to effectively throw an out takes away about 30% of the field.  If you can’t understand the problem with that, then you should just never post about a QB again.

 

By the way, NP is the only Bills QB to turn the ball over this preseason, and he threw a pick 6 on an out to a guy who won’t even be on a roster in 2 weeks on his first pass Sunday...but it was dropped because that guys sucks.

 

NPs TD was another bad throw that almost cost the Bills a TD...but Nick broke a tackle to save the TD.  He was so open on broken coverage that my Mom could have thrown that TD and nick still walk in untouched.  But he threw it slow and behind Nick so he had to wait for it allowing the defender that was a mile away close on him.  But again, the crappy defender who likely will never play a regular season snap this year couldn’t make the play as Nick broke the tackle.

 

You are literally approaching Dog14787 status right now with your romantic crush on NP.

 

My favorite non sense from you is your complete lack of understanding how much it matters he can’t throw outside well enough at the NFL level.  Then again, maybe my actual favorite nonsense is how you over exaggerate the FIRST DRIVE of the first NFL preseason against a vanilla D no QB will ever see in a regular season game ever.   Then you grossly over exaggerate Josh Allen’s first NFL action in his whole career to be negative while also ignoring all real factors that played into that comp %.

 

I could keep pointing your totally biased analysis aimed at propping up NP and down grading Allen, but this would be about 25 paragraphs long, so I will just stop right here.

 

And I have nothing against NP, but I am being realistic about what he has shown rather than trying to score a date and have a baby with him like some people here.

 

^This.

 

Frosty ropes outside the numbers. All I want for Christmas.

 

Go Bills.

[Warcodered]

5 minutes ago, Wily Dog said:

 

That was the plan before the game . McCarron with the ones. Allen with the two's and Peterman with the three's. McCarron failed , Allen did great and Peterman fulfilled what McD wanted from him. so what"s the beef?

I didn't agree that the reason for the lineup on game 2 was that Peterman was number 1 and they wanted to see if he elevated the 3s. I thought it more likely he was closely rated with AJ and it was AJ's turn in game 2. Also since they wanted to see Allen with better players he ended up with 2s leaving the 3s to Peterman. Is that clear enough.

[BullBuchanan]

Here's a great article on the subject from 15 years ago from Paul Hackett's perspective. tl;dr you design your offense around what you have: https://www.newsday.com/sports/powerful-arm-not-required-touch-poise-leadership-more-important-for-qb-1.436308

[Prickly Pete]

2 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

Here's a great article on the subject from 15 years ago from Paul Hackett's perspective. tl;dr you design your offense around what you have: https://www.newsday.com/sports/powerful-arm-not-required-touch-poise-leadership-more-important-for-qb-1.436308

 

The Bills have Josh Allen. That is who they need to start designing their offense around, NOW. Not Peterman the "mudder", whose game is best suited to a slow track or snow blizzards.

[BullBuchanan]

7 minutes ago, OJ Tom said:

 

The Bills have Josh Allen. That is who they need to start designing their offense around, NOW. Not Peterman the "mudder", whose game is best suited to a slow track or snow blizzards.

I understand that it might seem inconceivable that they could do two things at the same time, but I think they're up to the challenge. They don't throw the playbook out depending on the QB, the just change the frequency of plays.

[Prickly Pete]

Just now, BullBuchanan said:

I understand that it might seem inconceivable that they could do two things at the same time, but I think they're up to the challenge. They don't throw the playbook out depending on the QB, the just change the frequency of plays.

 

It's not inconceivable, just ill-advised, and a waste of precious time.

Edited August 20, 2018 by OJ Tom

[Boca BIlls]

Just now, BullBuchanan said:

I understand that it might seem inconceivable that they could do two things at the same time, but I think they're up to the challenge. They don't throw the playbook out depending on the QB, the just change the frequency of plays.

Josh Allen is the only guy who they need to have the playbook designed around.... don't worry about the backup Peterman.

[Patrick Duffy]

10 hours ago, Kelly the Dog said:

So you don't think that 100 out of 100 NFL quarterbacks would have looked at that defense Peterman was faced with, saw a safety and two defenders on two of our guys to the left, and saw only three defenders and no safety on our three receivers to the right, and wouldn't have immediately looked right, you know, where there were three single coverage guys, and seen one of them immediately rush, leaving his man wide open five yards down the field? That was some brilliant recognition?!! Watch the damn play. It's Pop Warner league stuff. You guys are embarrassing yourselves. 

LOl, I'm not embarrassing myself, you are the one saying it wasn't recognition to do that. I'm simply pointing out that, that pretty much defines the word recognize. Yes I agree a majority of QB's should and probably could make that play, but it still, whether you want to believe it or not, took "recognition" to take advantage of the broken play.

Edited August 20, 2018 by Patrick_Duffy

[Beast]

If our 7th overall pick can’t beat out last years 5th rounder.....well, there is an issue.

 

No worries. Allen is the man. He should be the starter.

[SoTier]

On 8/18/2018 at 8:25 AM, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

The QB decision will not be made based on the status of the OL per one Brandon Beane. 

 

Maybe Beane should ask AJ McCarron  if "the status of the OL" will influence who will start at QB for the Bills.  

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, SoTier said:

 

Maybe Beane should ask AJ McCarron  if "the status of the OL" will influence who will start at QB for the Bills.  

 

Maybe McCarron shouldn't hold the ball so long and learn pocket mobility skills. 

[BurpleBull]

13 hours ago, Kelly the Dog said:

That's ridiculous. Stats tell only a small part of the story. People are not going crazy over Peterman's stats because of the kinds of throws he made and didn't make. If he threw some balls down the field or showed he could throw a deep out or deep dig then they would be giving him credit because he would have been showing things he hadn't shown before. We know he can do what he has been doing the two games. That's what's he's very good at. It's the stuff that a lot of fans think he hasn't shown or cannot do that he hasn't thrown. If all Allen has done is shown one thing, even if it was a deep ball there would be criticism of him. Like their was Tyrod. 

 

But Allen has already shown he can throw left, right or over the middle. Short, medium and long. Rolling left, right or in the pocket. He's shown it all. Nate has shown much less. He's done the same thing a bunch of times, stuff we knew he could do. 

I didn't answer it because it makes no difference and has nothing to do with anything. It would have been a dumb play before, during or after the lead change. It forced a punt. And it was only his third or fourth worse mistake. 

 

Peterman didn't face a 3rd and 6 play where he passed short of the sticks.

 

This along with other things you've posted, highlights your general disregard for accuracy when it pertains to Peterman and your obvious bias against him. 

[CommonCents]

2 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Maybe McCarron shouldn't hold the ball so long and learn pocket mobility skills. 

Got that right. I’d rather watch Peterman than AJ. AJM’s decision making is as slow as Redmond’s snaps. 

[prissythecat]

1 hour ago, BurpleBull said:

 

Peterman didn't face a 3rd and 6 play where he passed short of the sticks.

 

This along with other things you've posted, highlights your general disregard for accuracy when it pertains to Peterman and your obvious bias against him. 

 

 

I'm curious .     If an admin were to lookup your ip address,  would it match the one for BullBuchanan?     I believe another poster has noticed the odd similarity in the extreme position in regard to Peterman as well as the handles.

[BurpleBull]

1 hour ago, prissythecat said:

 

 

I'm curious .     If an admin were to lookup your ip address,  would it match the one for BullBuchanan?     I believe another poster has noticed the odd similarity in the extreme position in regard to Peterman as well as the handles.

 

Ridiculous. 

[Kelly the Dog]

3 hours ago, BurpleBull said:

 

Peterman didn't face a 3rd and 6 play where he passed short of the sticks.

 

This along with other things you've posted, highlights your general disregard for accuracy when it pertains to Peterman and your obvious bias against him. 

Officially I just looked it up and it was third and eight and he threw for four yards. Same thing. He immediately threw a short pass to a covered OLeary that had no chance of being a first down. It was a mistake. One of several. 

[transplantbillsfan]

Bob Dylan said it best...

 

"The times they are a chaaaaaaanngiiiinnnn"

[prissythecat]

1 hour ago, BurpleBull said:

 

Ridiculous. 

 

This wasn't the text in your original response since I believe you  originally asked why someone would do an ip address lookup.     I guess you googled what it meant and decided to delete your original post so you wouldn't look as clueless.    Just admit that you and BullBuchanan are one and the same =)

Edited August 20, 2018 by prissythecat

[ricojes]

I recorded the last practice game as I was not going to waste 3+ hours watching practice.  My DVR has a jump forward function set for 30 seconds.  When a play is over and I hit that button it's pretty much the start of the next play, unless it's a hurry up or something.  Very quick and easy way to watch most of the practice.  This does not work for Peterman, he get's the play in and the players out of the huddle and the ball snapped so quickly, I would have to adjust it to 20 seconds at most.  This gives extra time to scan the field and change the play if needed or snap it quickly to catch players out of position.  The one thing that frustrated me with Terod is the clock management, even in a hurry up offense they were so close the delay of games on a regular basis. 

Edited August 20, 2018 by ricojes

[Kelly the Dog]

Just now, ricojes said:

I recorded the last practice game as I was not going to waste 3+ hours watching practice.  My DVR has a jump forward function set for 30 seconds.  When a play is over and I hit that button it's pretty much the start of the next play, unless it's a hurry up or something.  Very quick and easy way to watch most of the practice.  This does not work for Peterman, he get's the play in and the players out of the huddle and the ball snapped so quickly, I would have to adjust it to 20 seconds.  This gives extra time to scan the field and change the play if needed or snap it quickly to catch players out of position.  The one thing that frustrated me with Terod is the clock management, even in a hurry up offense they were so close the delay of games on a regular basis. 

That's because they only have two plays they call with Peterman. Eight-yard curl left and eight-yard curl right. They don't even need to huddle.