BuffaloBaumer Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 There are certainly other holes on this team (receiver, LB, DE) that deserve concern but the one position that I just can't seem to get past is the O Line. Is there any way that some of these guys could surprise as it is really the only reason I do not want Allen starting until later in the season. The defense could be solid enough and with Allen, Shady, Clay, along with a mix of receivers, the offense could surprise IF the Oline holds up. I just don't see it and it and in my opinion, it could be the only thing holding this team back from another Wild Card run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teef Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 nah. we'll be fine. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 Yes. There's a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussie Joe Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 My magic 8 ball is saying “outlook not so good”.. Hope they find another piece before the season starts.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCBills Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 Dawkins is a stud. Groy, Miller and Teller are all guys that could surprise and be above average OL. Not sure what the plan is for McDermott, but if he could win RT, that would be reason for optimism. I think we know what we have in Mills, Ducasse and Bodine. Veteran, serviceable, but nothing to be excited about. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 Other than Dawkins at LT, not sure who comprises the other four positions. Will be interesting to see how Castillo works with Daboll to get the line squared away. Castillo is supposed to be good...we'll see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soda Popinski Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 Dawkins played well enough last year, but then again he had a pro bowl LG by him. This year he's got to be the veteran bringing other guys up. Miller I expect to step in and take a guard spot and wherever he plays we should not see a dropoff at that position, so that's two positions i don't expect a decline in. Whether Groy or Bodine at center IDK, I liked Groy when he subbed in for Wood, Bodine was about as highly touted as Mills was coming here. same with Newhouse. If they start Vlad, I don't expect him to be anything more than barely competent. Same with Mills at RT. So 2 positions I feel good about the other 3 not so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 Not sure if there is a good chance it holds up. But very good chance that it holds a lot. 4 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 1 minute ago, SCBills said: Groy, Miller and Teller are all guys that could surprise and be above average OL. Agree, just a matter of who plays in which position. Probably will be some growing pains the first six weeks or so. 2 minutes ago, SCBills said: Not sure what the plan is for McDermott, but if he could win RT, that would be reason for optimism. Nah, he's coaching. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddaryl Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 not concerned till I see a reason to be concerned.. Will know by the end of preseason until then nobody cold possibly answer this question Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FappyTheClown Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaw66 Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 I believe coaching trumps talent. I think that good schemes and good coaching can make the relative no-name offensive line the Bills have effective. Whether they have that coaching is an open question. However, even if they're well coached, they will struggle when they play against the the best front sevens in the league. For example, I'm going to the game in Houston. That may get ugly real quick. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luxy312 Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 All: Get your head wrapped around this problematic issue. In the 43 games that Tyrod Taylor started for the Bills, he took the longest average time from snap to throw in 41 weeks. 41/43X, he was the SLOWEST QB to throw the football on passing plays. That is beyond Tyrod Terrible. There's no offensive line in the NFL that can hold up forever. That's a simple reality. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 Everything rides on Dawkins staying healthy imo. He goes down and it will likely be disastrous. If teller can surpise while groy turns out to be solid we might be ok. Mills is by no means good, but he has some games where he plays admirably. Maybe another year of experience will help and he’ll improve, if not Newhouse has a slight chance to be serviceable. RG still really scares me. Miller couldn’t beat out Pukasse last year. That’s not good. Maybe he’ll surpise this year. I filly expect us to spend on OL and/or draft some OL in the top 4 rds next year. If we don’t build a solid OL, the Josh Allen era may not turn out very well. Get the kid some protection. 3 minutes ago, Shaw66 said: I believe coaching trumps talent. I think that good schemes and good coaching can make the relative no-name offensive line the Bills have effective. Whether they have that coaching is an open question. However, even if they're well coached, they will struggle when they play against the the best front sevens in the league. For example, I'm going to the game in Houston. That may get ugly real quick. We did pretty well against them in 2015. 4 total tackles and not much pressure. Hopefully miller and mills can replicate that performance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logic Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 4 minutes ago, Shaw66 said: I believe coaching trumps talent. I think that good schemes and good coaching can make the relative no-name offensive line the Bills have effective. Whether they have that coaching is an open question. However, even if they're well coached, they will struggle when they play against the the best front sevens in the league. For example, I'm going to the game in Houston. That may get ugly real quick. I also will be at the Houston game. Not sure how to feel about the prospect of Clowney/Watt vs our offensive line. On the other hand, I like the chances of our defense stopping Watson's offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 6 minutes ago, Shaw66 said: I believe coaching trumps talent. I think that good schemes and good coaching can make the relative no-name offensive line the Bills have effective. Whether they have that coaching is an open question. However, even if they're well coached, they will struggle when they play against the the best front sevens in the league. For example, I'm going to the game in Houston. That may get ugly real quick. I prefer to focus on “ANY chance”, so the answer is YES. Always the optimist (until we start playing...). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 6 minutes ago, Luxy312 said: All: Get your head wrapped around this problematic issue. In the 43 games that Tyrod Taylor started for the Bills, he took the longest average time from snap to throw in 41 weeks. 41/43X, he was the SLOWEST QB to throw the football on passing plays. That is beyond Tyrod Terrible. There's no offensive line in the NFL that can hold up forever. That's a simple reality. That stat you refer to may be the most misleading stat in all of sports, below "Most intentional walks by an ambidextrous pitcher in night games that ended in seven innings or less in cities that start with the letter P." 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaw66 Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 7 minutes ago, Luxy312 said: All: Get your head wrapped around this problematic issue. In the 43 games that Tyrod Taylor started for the Bills, he took the longest average time from snap to throw in 41 weeks. 41/43X, he was the SLOWEST QB to throw the football on passing plays. That is beyond Tyrod Terrible. There's no offensive line in the NFL that can hold up forever. That's a simple reality. I don't know what this is supposed to mean. First, it's pretty remarkable that he was the slowest for 41 out of 43 weeks. Second, that stat is really a measure of scrambling - Tyrod rates high here because he is the best scrambler in the league. (And because he held unto the ball instead of throwing it away.) It isn't a measure of whether the offensive line is good or bad. Third, a well-trained QB doesn't need a great offensive line, because he's getting rid the ball pretty quickly. 1 minute ago, Kelly the Dog said: That stat you refer to may be the most misleading stat in all of sports, below "Most intentional walks by an ambidextrous pitcher in night games that ended in seven innings or less in cities that start with the letter P." Are you including semi-intentional walks? That changes the answer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luxy312 Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 Just now, Shaw66 said: I don't know what this is supposed to mean. First, it's pretty remarkable that he was the slowest for 41 out of 43 weeks. Second, that stat is really a measure of scrambling - Tyrod rates high here because he is the best scrambler in the league. (And because he held unto the ball instead of throwing it away.) It isn't a measure of whether the offensive line is good or bad. Third, a well-trained QB doesn't need a great offensive line, because he's getting rid the ball pretty quickly. Doesn't include times when he ran. It is remarkable and that's really the point. There's other QB's that move around in the pocket and throw. When you talk (before the bye weeks) that there's 31 teams where their starting QB averaged less time with ball in hand, that's a big deal. Brady averaged the least amount of time for the season, but didn't lead the league at that kind of proportion. He didn't lead the league in even double digit number of weeks. Your third point is really what I'm alluding to and why we just can't say whether the offensive line is good or not good. We do know that they run blocked pretty well, which obviously doesn't involve holding onto the ball in the backfield waiting for plays to develop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 They didn't run block well either. Shady was hit in the backfield more than any other player in the league, and it wasn't because he danced. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasons1992 Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 All I know is people here in Cincinnati (fans and media alike) said Russell Bodine was horrific all last season. I'm just reporting the news. O-line is the most important part of an offensive success pattern. You may say QB, but I beg to respectfully differ (and look forward to being called an idiot by someone near our nation's capital.) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 4 minutes ago, Seasons1992 said: All I know is people here in Cincinnati (fans and media alike) said Russell Bodine was horrific all last season. I'm just reporting the news. O-line is the most important part of an offensive success pattern. You may say QB, but I beg to respectfully differ (and look forward to being called an idiot by someone near our nation's capital.) Like sports fans in most cities in all major sports, if they know anything at all about that sport, they are probably wrong. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 1 hour ago, teef said: nah. we'll be fine. ...plenty of newness and potential along with returnees....why couldn't one of the newbees be our next "Meatball" find only offensively?......like that McDaboll stepped up and said OL will be scheme specific to opposition defense versus versus a cast in stone scheme that Castillo may prefer to employ.....seems to emphasize players' strengths versus OL Coach preferences..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaw66 Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 48 minutes ago, Luxy312 said: Doesn't include times when he ran. It is remarkable and that's really the point. There's other QB's that move around in the pocket and throw. When you talk (before the bye weeks) that there's 31 teams where their starting QB averaged less time with ball in hand, that's a big deal. Brady averaged the least amount of time for the season, but didn't lead the league at that kind of proportion. He didn't lead the league in even double digit number of weeks. Your third point is really what I'm alluding to and why we just can't say whether the offensive line is good or not good. We do know that they run blocked pretty well, which obviously doesn't involve holding onto the ball in the backfield waiting for plays to develop. Not that it matters, but NexGen stats says Brady was 12th in the league, not first. And Taylor was tied with Jared Goff, so it isn't immediately apparent that holding the ball is a bad thing. And I wasn't talking about plays when he ran; I was talking about all the pass plays he extended with his legs. That drags his average way up. When everyone is averaging under three seconds, every time Taylor scrambled and took six seconds to throw really affected his average, especially because he was throwing fewer times than all the other QBs. What does matter is the point we agree on, which is the QB makes his offensive line better with effective decision making. We never saw enough of that with Taylor. I still wonder, however, whether he wasn't running in a poor system with poor coaching. When Rex's route guru, the receivers coach, had control of the receivers in 2015, Taylor had much less trouble finding guys. Whatever, Taylor's indecision, reluctance to throw into tight windows, whatever it was that made him hesitate, makes the offensive line look bad. The truth is that practically no one has really effective pass protection any more. The days of the QB setting up in the pocket and surveying the field are gone. Teams used to expect their QB to have 3+ seconds to throw, but those days are gone. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 I don't dislike the OL, maybe I should. I've seen Dawkins, Groy, and Miller play very good football. Replacing Incognito is the tough job. If Miller returns to form they should be fine. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gray Beard Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 i saw the Swiss cheese upstream and it made me think of this.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 2 hours ago, Happy Gilmore said: Other than Dawkins at LT, not sure who comprises the other four positions. Will be interesting to see how Castillo works with Daboll to get the line squared away. Castillo is supposed to be good...we'll see. Castillo was and is the OL coach / Run Game Coordinator. Other than friends with McD (and he would have made a better offense assistant rather than coach) I cannot see good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julio Hopkins Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 2 hours ago, Happy Gilmore said: Other than Dawkins at LT, not sure who comprises the other four positions. Will be interesting to see how Castillo works with Daboll to get the line squared away. Castillo is supposed to be good...we'll see. Is he though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 2 hours ago, Happy Gilmore said: . Castillo is supposed to be good...we'll see. He's really good at playing possum for 17 weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 10 minutes ago, Julio Hopkins said: Is he though? 7 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said: He's really good at playing possum for 17 weeks. I'm wondering the same thing, and am skeptical, like you guys. I think Eric Wood or Richie Incognito made a statement a little while back about Juan Castillo. The veteran lineman said (paraphrasing) that Castillo is very good, but he wants things and techniques done his way. I interpreted that as he is good with younger linemen, but veteran linemen tend not to do as well with him. I would also have to believe that as an OLine coordinator, Castillo is blocking scheme agnostic, and that the zone scheme was all Dennison (which was run in Denver for years.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 Dawkins at LT you can have confidence in, I honestly have confidence in Groy at Center and I think it is possible Miller has a rebound year at RG. But LG and RT are still a mess. Mills or Newhouse at RT isn't confidence inspiring, both are good backups but neither is a guy you want starting. LG is the weakest point as you have a 5th round rookie and a mediocre guard in Vlad. At best you can squint your eyes and see 3 spots on the o-line where the team has above average play at and that's with a player having a rebound season and a good backup playing well as a starter. On top of that isn't accounting for injury. I wouldn't put a project rookie like Allen behind this O-line and with a suspect receiving core. See what AJ could do with this team and let Allen chill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kemp Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 3 hours ago, Shaw66 said: I believe coaching trumps talent. I believe the exact opposite. 1 hour ago, Gray Beard said: i saw the Swiss cheese upstream and it made me think of this.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 3 hours ago, Shaw66 said: I believe coaching trumps talent. I think that good schemes and good coaching can make the relative no-name offensive line the Bills have effective. Whether they have that coaching is an open question. However, even if they're well coached, they will struggle when they play against the the best front sevens in the league. For example, I'm going to the game in Houston. That may get ugly real quick. Thanks, 66. This is the 1st post which addresses who these cast offs, bench warmers and unknowns will actually face week to week. This isn’t Buff State. They’ll face Baltimore, San Diego, Minnesota, GB, Tennessee & Houston to start the season with 4 of these games in loud, hostile environments. Personally, I can’t see any way Dabol/Castillo can create game specific, effective blocking schemes as they’re alleged to be capable of, for each of these experienced, strong defenses, utilizing our ragtag wannabes. But I could be wrong.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sky Diver Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 Bring Richie back into the fold. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 The biggest problem about this OL is the unknown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 8 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: The biggest problem about this OL is the unknown. That, and the known. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fadingpain Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 3 hours ago, Sky Diver said: Bring Richie back into the fold. Would love to reach some type of deal and get Richie back. Just make sure he stays on his medication. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peace Frog Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 8 hours ago, Aussie Joe said: My magic 8 ball is saying “outlook not so good”.. Hope they find another piece before the season starts.. That reminds me of this video. Your line is at the 1:00 mark. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulus Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 Are there any options out there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasovon Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 Look at our secondary last year, seen by pundits as the worst in football. We will be fine because our coaching is strong now. https://www.newyorkupstate.com/buffalo-bills/index.ssf/2017/09/buffalo_bills_secondary_among_nfls_worst_defensive_positional_units_says_espn.html These talking heads have no idea about talent evaluation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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