Cash Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said: I don't mind Sal C - he seems like a nice guy - but sometimes his analysis is a little underwhelming. He seems to be implying that Ivory is being brought in to compete and might theoretically lose out to a different FA signing and/or a rookie and be cut. But if the reports are true that Ivory's contract has $3.25 million guaranteed, there's virtually no way he gets cut before 2019. Follow the money. The Bills are currently #1 in 2018 cap $ at RB with only 3 players under contract. Chris Ivory is currently the #21 RB in average salary, and should wind up around #28 or so after free agency and the draft. That's a lot more than just being brought in to compete - he is our primary backup RB until proven otherwise. Now, I'm sure that if he sucks (hopefully not), McDermott will be willing to bench or cut him, which is good. Other than Tolbert, he hasn't shown much favoritism so far, and even Tolbert eventually lost most of his role before injuries put him back in the lineup. (And a lot of the problems with Tolbert might be on Rico - I don't think either Tolbert or McDermott had the idea of lining Tolbert out wide and throwing him a quick slant.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolishDave Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 1 hour ago, Utah John said: You shouldn't compare Darby in Philly with Darby who would be leaving Buffalo as a FA. Darby saw how Gilmore cashed in and that looked good to him. McBeane got some value for Darby instead of another year of service plus nothing in the future. It turned out the value he got wasn't that good, but Matthews had been great in Philly and was injured a lot here so it's hard to criticize that trade. Benjamin was playing hurt last year. He's going to be much better this year. Check back in a year or two and see if you still don't think he was worth the cost. Dareus was another addition by subtraction. He was a cancer in the locker room and would have been cut for lack of production. McBeane made the best possible deal. So you are suggesting (whether intentionally or not) that Beane already has a history of trading for players who are injury prone. Looks like Rosen is their guy then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 4 hours ago, JR in Pittsburgh said: Wonder if that fan who went on the anti-Tolbert campaign (Kickstarter?) will get some credit!! There was way more than one of those.... even the press was scratching their head by mid year after 1 too many jet... nay.... prop plane sweeps... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 4 hours ago, Helpmenow said: Cadet if healthy might be ok Three older backs would be an odd combination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 6 minutes ago, Cash said: I don't mind Sal C - he seems like a nice guy - but sometimes his analysis is a little underwhelming. He seems to be implying that Ivory is being brought in to compete and might theoretically lose out to a different FA signing and/or a rookie and be cut. But if the reports are true that Ivory's contract has $3.25 million guaranteed, there's virtually no way he gets cut before 2019. Follow the money. The Bills are currently #1 in 2018 cap $ at RB with only 3 players under contract. Chris Ivory is currently the #21 RB in average salary, and should wind up around #28 or so after free agency and the draft. That's a lot more than just being brought in to compete - he is our primary backup RB until proven otherwise. Now, I'm sure that if he sucks (hopefully not), McDermott will be willing to bench or cut him, which is good. Other than Tolbert, he hasn't shown much favoritism so far, and even Tolbert eventually lost most of his role before injuries put him back in the lineup. (And a lot of the problems with Tolbert might be on Rico - I don't think either Tolbert or McDermott had the idea of lining Tolbert out wide and throwing him a quick slant.) That's a bit overstated IMO. Adrian Peterson was clearly brought in to be the RB2 for NO behind Ingram last year, but they still drafted Kamara in round 3, and look how that paid off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hebert19 Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 4 hours ago, elltrain22 said: Good news!! For a few reasons. 1. Ivory is a good player, and a nice option for short yardage/goal line 2. Eliminates or severely decreases the need for an early round pick being spent on a RB, now we can draft another positional need 3. our FO is demonstrating very good presentation. 2 visits, and 2 signings!! 4. we can get rid of Tolbert!! Nailed it. There are a few bozos in the media criticizing this but he's a solid player at a decent salary that allows us to now focus on other holes in the draft. Could we have waited to see who else gets released. Sure but would we do better for cheaper. Doubt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NastyNateSoldiers Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 29 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: They have 8 draft picks, and currently need to add 34 players by TC. So that means we throwaway money on old man Ivory. 3 minutes ago, Hebert19 said: Nailed it. There are a few bozos in the media criticizing this but he's a solid player at a decent salary that allows us to now focus on other holes in the draft. Could we have waited to see who else gets released. Sure but would we do better for cheaper. Doubt it. UDFA were beating this guy out last yr we definitely can do better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Bomb Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 meh, he's old... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logic Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 44 minutes ago, NastyNateSoldiers said: The Bills seem to be a team that has no feel for the draft. This yr is loaded at RB we got other holes to fill and we go sign a 30yr old for guranteed money. Or maybe they DO have a feel for the draft, and are of the opinion that other positions offer more value? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NastyNateSoldiers Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 3 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: What a difference a yr can do he couldn't even be the 3rd best on his team last yr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 2 minutes ago, NastyNateSoldiers said: What a difference a yr can do he couldn't even be the 3rd best on his team last yr. Change of scenery could put the fire right back in him......Its not like he hasnt been one of the best RB's in the NFL at some point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Muellers Ghost Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 This just in Bulldog and Schopp do not like it... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misterbluesky Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 1 minute ago, Jamie Muellers Ghost said: This just in Bulldog and Schopp do not like it... Who cares...is Schoop ever happy about anything? Biggest Debbie downer in the local media,outside of sullivan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
folz Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 4 hours ago, DCOrange said: Isn't that kind of the point though? Buffalo could have easily gotten someone on a rookie deal that would likely be a better player too. He's roughly one of the 20 highest paid RBs next season. Yes, lots of rookies come in and run well. But conversely, most rookies are terrible at pass protection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderingHerd Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 (edited) 5 hours ago, Commonsense said: Injured riddled tank with a habit of dropping the football on the ground. I hope he is plan C at RB. What do you mean by a habit dropping the football on the ground? NFL Stats shows 18 career rushing fumbles for Ivory. Shady has 19. Do you mean pass catches? Edited March 6, 2018 by ThunderingHerd 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddaryl Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 8 minutes ago, Misterbluesky said: Who cares...is Schoop ever happy about anything? Biggest Debbie downer in the local media,outside of sullivan. and Misterbluesky don't play that debbie downer crap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
without a drought Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 13 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: Change of scenery could put the fire right back in him......Its not like he hasnt been one of the best RB's in the NFL at some point He had one good season with the Jets, he has never been or never will be considered one of the best RB's at any point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 1 minute ago, The Drought said: He had one good season with the Jets, he has never been or never will be considered one of the best RB's at any point. Did he not lead the league in rushing in one of his years of playing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMDman Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 Just now, John from Riverside said: Did he not lead the league in rushing in one of his years of playing? he lead the AFC in 15, I think AP lead the league Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCOrange Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 10 minutes ago, folz said: Yes, lots of rookies come in and run well. But conversely, most rookies are terrible at pass protection. Ivory graded out as the #78 pass blocker in the league at the RB position this past season on top of being one of the worst runners. 2 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: Did he not lead the league in rushing in one of his years of playing? He finished 5th in 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiddenInLight Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 1 minute ago, DCOrange said: Ivory graded out as the #78 pass blocker in the league at the RB position this past season on top of being one of the worst runners. He finished 5th in 2015 He did play for the most predictable OC in football though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 3 minutes ago, WMDman said: he lead the AFC in 15, I think AP lead the league Got it...thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest K-GunJimKelly12 Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Jamie Muellers Ghost said: This just in Bulldog and Schopp do not like it... Schopp is clueless about many aspects of sports and Bulldog is his kuck. Edited March 6, 2018 by K-GunJimKelly12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonCents Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 11 minutes ago, ThunderingHerd said: What do you mean by a habit dropping the football on the ground? NFL Stats shows 18 career rushing fumbles for Ivory. Shady has 19. Do you mean pass catches? No I meant fumbles. Look at his total attempts. Then look at 2015 onward. He set a record for highest fumble percentage for any back with over 100 carries in a season. It was just shy of 5 percent IIRC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 3 minutes ago, K-GunJimKelly12 said: Schopp is clueless about many aspects of sports and Bulldog is his kuck. You saying Bulldog likes watching Schopp engage in intercourse? I'm confused Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiddenInLight Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 Just now, Magox said: You saying Bulldog likes watching Schopp engage in intercourse? I'm confused I think he's saying that they know more about drafting Thanksgiving Side Dishes then they do about sports. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 Just now, Magox said: You saying Bulldog likes watching Schopp engage in intercourse? I'm confused I'm going to do something cruel to you. Close your eyes and start imagining the scene that's in bold. No matter how bad you fight it, it will creep in your head at least for a second....like a catchy song tune. Are you enjoying this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest K-GunJimKelly12 Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Magox said: You saying Bulldog likes watching Schopp engage in intercourse? I'm confused I'm saying Bulldog waits for Schopp to tell Bulldog what Bulldog's opinion is. I don't think I have ever heard him disagree with Schopp once. Edited March 6, 2018 by K-GunJimKelly12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderingHerd Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Commonsense said: No I meant fumbles. Look at his total attempts. Then look at 2015 onward. He set a record for highest fumble percentage for any back with over 100 carries in a season. It was just shy of 5 percent IIRC I see what you're saying now. The ratio in 2016 wasn't great. Got better in '17. Hopefully he doesn't drop the rock, can't see McDermott being too tolerant of that. Edited March 6, 2018 by ThunderingHerd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1st&ten Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 3 hours ago, ndirish1978 said: You're not a fan, but you have no idea what his skill set is? Makes perfect sense. I've seen the stats & other posts about his running & fumbling; haven't seen anything about his blocking. I think there will be cheaper options available that are just as good this off season. We have a lot of holes to fill. I'd liked to see the money spent on lineman & linebackers. Hopefully, he'll prove his worth & I'll be happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 McDermott seems to like veteran players. I thought the Bills would try and get younger this year but so far they signed 2 30 year old vets. So looks like getting younger won't happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 34 minutes ago, Jamie Muellers Ghost said: This just in Bulldog and Schopp do not like it... That settles it for me. Great pick up. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest K-GunJimKelly12 Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, TheTruthHurts said: McDermott seems to like veteran players. I thought the Bills would try and get younger this year but so far they signed 2 30 year old vets. So looks like getting younger won't happen. You aren't getting young players in their prime before free agency officially starts. The Bills have a lot of holes and you can't fill them all in one off-season. Signing vets to short term deals, to insulate yourself and give yourself another year to build the long term roster is the right and prudent thing to do. It actually gives me a lot of faith in this regime that they know what they are doing. Surprising more people don't understand this. Edited March 6, 2018 by K-GunJimKelly12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoFFacet Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 2 minutes ago, TheTruthHurts said: McDermott seems to like veteran players. I thought the Bills would try and get younger this year but so far they signed 2 30 year old vets. So looks like getting younger won't happen. I don't suppose you realize that real free agency hasn't even started yet, or that neither of these signings preclude them from signing or drafting other players, or that the draft is really the only way to add significant youth to the team... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCOrange Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 17 minutes ago, HiddenInLight said: He did play for the most predictable OC in football though. Sure, but he was nowhere near Fournette, Yeldon, or Corey Grant for that matter in terms of his running. He was sadly the best pass blocker on the team though according to PFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cash Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 1 hour ago, thebandit27 said: That's a bit overstated IMO. Adrian Peterson was clearly brought in to be the RB2 for NO behind Ingram last year, but they still drafted Kamara in round 3, and look how that paid off. Yup, fairly similar situation here. That's why I'm pretty meh/slight negative on this signing, rather than doom & gloom like a couple posters in this thread. If the Bills see another potential Kamara in the 3rd or maybe even 2nd, I don't think the presence of Ivory will stop them from pulling the trigger. And as a veteran backup, you could do worse than Ivory. I just think they overpaid - I would've expected Ivory to get closer to the league minimum, and I don't see Ivory as a guy who's much better at his age than a minimum-salary guy like Joe Banyard or Tavaris Cadet. It's pretty weird that LeGarrette Blount had 1100 yards and scored 18 TDs, became a free agent, and got basically a 1 year minimum deal, while Chris Ivory had a pretty weak 2016 and 2017, got cut, and now gets high-end backup money. And I stand by my original statement. I watch most Saints games, and Peterson was definitely the #2 back at the start of the season, with Kamara as the 3rd down/receiving back. Even as good as Kamara was, the pricey veteran backup got more carries until week 4. Unless our Kamara 2.0 is absolutely unbelievable in training camp, I expect it would be a similar situation for us - Ivory has the main backup job until week 4-6 or so. How long did it take Rico/McDermott to realize that Tolbert shouldn't be getting 10 carries a game as the primary backup last year? I'm guessing it would take Daboll/McDermott about that long to realize that Kamara 2.0 should be getting Ivory's work next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 1 minute ago, Cash said: Yup, fairly similar situation here. That's why I'm pretty meh/slight negative on this signing, rather than doom & gloom like a couple posters in this thread. If the Bills see another potential Kamara in the 3rd or maybe even 2nd, I don't think the presence of Ivory will stop them from pulling the trigger. And as a veteran backup, you could do worse than Ivory. I just think they overpaid - I would've expected Ivory to get closer to the league minimum, and I don't see Ivory as a guy who's much better at his age than a minimum-salary guy like Joe Banyard or Tavaris Cadet. It's pretty weird that LeGarrette Blount had 1100 yards and scored 18 TDs, became a free agent, and got basically a 1 year minimum deal, while Chris Ivory had a pretty weak 2016 and 2017, got cut, and now gets high-end backup money. And I stand by my original statement. I watch most Saints games, and Peterson was definitely the #2 back at the start of the season, with Kamara as the 3rd down/receiving back. Even as good as Kamara was, the pricey veteran backup got more carries until week 4. Unless our Kamara 2.0 is absolutely unbelievable in training camp, I expect it would be a similar situation for us - Ivory has the main backup job until week 4-6 or so. How long did it take Rico/McDermott to realize that Tolbert shouldn't be getting 10 carries a game as the primary backup last year? I'm guessing it would take Daboll/McDermott about that long to realize that Kamara 2.0 should be getting Ivory's work next year. I agree with most of that; I doubt that they'll go into the season without a younger back in whom they have faith. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fadingpain Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 He's an improvement over Tolbert but this is kind of a "meh" signing to be honest at this point in his career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts