Bills last in league in snaps by home grown talent in 2017

[Logic]

This was very interesting to me. It told me three things:

1.) The Bills need to build through the draft and do it well the next few years, as they've done an awful job at it of late. (This was obvious any way, right?)
2.) It's downright amazing that the Bills made the playoffs last year with the band-aided together roster they fielded. 
3.) Even if you DO draft well and your homegrown talent gets a lot of snaps, it's no guarantee of success. Cincinnatti, Cleveland, Dallas, and Green Bay missed the playoffs, despite being in the top 6.
 

[Fadingpain]

This isn't a surprise; we've been terrible at retaining drafted talent.

This is why I don't mind giving away the farm for a top QB prospect. 

We give away all our draft picks anyway, while never getting the QB in return for them!

 

 

[corta765]

Not surprised by this. I recently commented on a Doug Whaley post that he actually drafted pretty decently until 2016 and that last years roster was buoyed by vets/2017 draft class big time.

 

Here is the list of starting caliber players we drafted (2012 on) that are gone:

 

Sammy Watkins, Robert Woods, Marquise Goodwin, Nigel Bradham, Ross Cockrell, Kiko Alosno (traded for Shady so wash), Ronald Darby, Reggie Ragland, Stephon Gilmore, and if you reach back one year further Marcell Dareus also.

 

Obviously you cannot pay all of them, but we reshuffled the deck for a 3rd head coaches scheme again and lost talent. Now it worked out a lot better I like McD a ton, but Rex is a direct reason why Bradham isn't here and Ragland was drafted which shows how much changing coaches impacts your lineup especially with how much Bradham could be used now. By the way the 2016 draft is case and point what happens when you miss big time on your picks only Adolphus Washington and Shaq Lawson are even left on the roster.

 

So yea the Bills have work to do but the positives are the 2017 draft went incredibly well with White, Dawkins, & Milano as a strong base and they have a lot of picks this year even if they trade for a QB to add more depth.

Edited February 26, 2018 by corta765

[Dopey]

New coaching staff and gm taking over for the rex ryan cluster fudge. No surprise there. Trust the process.

[Buftex]

I think (though I don't know for sure, just speculating) this is partly skewered, because McDermott and Beane went to pretty extreme lengths it seemed, to purge the roster of Whaley players...I wonder where the Bills would have ranked in 2015, when it became Rex Ryans' show

.

Edited February 26, 2018 by Buftex

[#34fan]

It's an absolute F____ing disgrace.

Edited February 26, 2018 by #34fan

[corta765]

6 minutes ago, Buftex said:

I think (though I don't know for sure, just speculating) this is partly skewered, because McDermott and Beane went to pretty extreme lengths it seemed, to purge the roster of Whaley players...I wonder where the Bills would have ranked in 2016.

 

2015 is the better example offense started Woods, Watkins, Glenn, Wood, and J. Miller on opening day 5 of 11 all drafted by the Bills. Defense started Dareus, Bradham, P Brown, Gilmore, Darby, McKelvin, and A Williams on opening day 7 of 11 drafted by Bills. Rex in year 1 didn't lose much from the Bills D or O. After that he purged a lot/Whaley's contract extensions hit the team hard. The 2015 Bills were without a doubt the most talented team they've had since 1999 IMO performance just never matched thanks to Rex.

Edited February 26, 2018 by corta765

[Kirby Jackson]

It’s interesting but I’m not sure that it means anything. What would be interesting, to corta’s point is how snaps rank across the league by team that drafted guys (or originally signed them as UFAs)? Basically, which front offices produced the most snaps in 2017?  

 

I suppose it would be altered some by a team like Cleveland that has selected more players. It would still be interesting to see.

[Buftex]

9 minutes ago, corta765 said:

 

2015 is the better example offense started Woods, Watkins, Glenn, Wood, and J. Miller on opening day 5 of 11 all drafted by the Bills. Defense started Dareus, Bradham, P Brown, Gilmore, Darby, McKelvin, and A Williams on opening day 7 of 11 drafted by Bills. Rex in year 1 didn't lose much from the Bills D or O. After that he purged a lot/Whaley's contract extensions hit the team hard. The 2015 Bills were without a doubt the most talented team they've had since 1999 IMO performance just never matched thanks to Rex.

Yes, I changed my comment to 2015, for the reasons you mention.  Personally, I think Whaley was a good drafter. I thnk, had Marrone not left when he did, the "drought" would have ended a few years earlier.  Rex Ryan was the de-facto GM...

[CardinalScotts]

poor drafting...and new regime new scheme etc. Not too suprising or alarming

[folz]

Yeah, this is not surprising considering we are on our 3rd head coach in just 4 seasons (each guy wanting his own players/changing schemes, etc.). 

 

It is pretty sad actually, that (not including interim HCs Fewell and Lynn), since 2000, we are on our 8th head coach in 18 seasons. That averages to 2.25 years per coach. And in that same time (since John Butler moved on in 2000), we have had 6 GMs (2 at least that weren't even qualified for the job). That's 3 years per GM on average. When you are changing your coach every two years and your GM every 3 years, on average, you can't hope to ever build anything.

 

 

Let's hope McDermott/Beane stick around for a while!

 

Edited February 27, 2018 by folz

[Freddie's Dead]

Given the purge conducted by McBeane, this statistic was wildly predictable.  

[Mikie2times]

Not exactly the best way to measure this. I imagine a strong correlation exists with total snaps and total plays. If you want this stat to just focus on what it's intended you need a denominator.    

Edited February 27, 2018 by KzooMike

[BADOLBILZ]

3 hours ago, Fadingpain said:

This isn't a surprise; we've been terrible at retaining drafted talent.

This is why I don't mind giving away the farm for a top QB prospect. 

We give away all our draft picks anyway, while never getting the QB in return for them!

 

 

 

Yep.

 

When they finally made the playoffs.....after 18 years of having mostly mid-to-high first round picks....and drafting many pro-bowlers along the way........ they had only one of their own orginal first rounders on the field.........the most recent one......Tre White.

 

[Misterbluesky]

It's all in the past,we all know DW  was a train wreck for some time..5 picks in the first 3 rounds in a few months time...we WILL get younger and better...the scouting staff now burns midnight oil at OBD ,instead of taking trips to Hawai'i during this vital time.

[Cruiserplayer]

We traded 1200 snaps for around 650 snaps and one bag of Playoff Pop Rocks . In the mean time we gathered 6 potential  Strawberry Red Rocks (draft picks).  Plus we opened up some cash flow. 

[NoSaint]

5 hours ago, Logic said:

This was very interesting to me. It told me three things:

1.) The Bills need to build through the draft and do it well the next few years, as they've done an awful job at it of late. (This was obvious any way, right?)
2.) It's downright amazing that the Bills made the playoffs last year with the band-aided together roster they fielded. 
3.) Even if you DO draft well and your homegrown talent gets a lot of snaps, it's no guarantee of success. Cincinnatti, Cleveland, Dallas, and Green Bay missed the playoffs, despite being in the top 6.
 

 

In one offseason we released, traded or didn’t resign a solid 4 years of 1st/2nd round draft picks

 

sammy (x2), dareus, ej, Gilmore 

 

kujo, Darby, Ragland, woods, aaron Williams 

 

I’m not arguing you keep all of them but it’s a truly astonishing volume when put into context and it’s not all busts by any means 

 

 

[BillsFan130]

That will change soon, especially when Nate Peterman will be here leading this team for a few decades 

[Paulus]

This is so stupid...

 

Where have some of yall been this year? McBeane replaced 1/3 of the roster, and some of you guys are acting like this is a suprise?

 

This is like discovering the sky's blue color and then having the people around you act amazed. 

 

I mean, I'm sick and peeing out of my butt, right now... I'm going to leave this thread and enjoy peeing out of my butt. 

Edited February 27, 2018 by Paulus

[Bill_with_it]

6 hours ago, Logic said:

This was very interesting to me. It told me three things:

1.) The Bills need to build through the draft and do it well the next few years, as they've done an awful job at it of late. (This was obvious any way, right?)
2.) It's downright amazing that the Bills made the playoffs last year with the band-aided together roster they fielded. 
3.) Even if you DO draft well and your homegrown talent gets a lot of snaps, it's no guarantee of success. Cincinnatti, Cleveland, Dallas, and Green Bay missed the playoffs, despite being in the top 6.
 

6 words:

Doug Whaley is and was awful.

[MJS]

Tough to see a huge correlation with success there. Bad and good teams are shuffled all over the graph.

[PromoTheRobot]

7 hours ago, Logic said:

This was very interesting to me. It told me three things:

1.) The Bills need to build through the draft and do it well the next few years, as they've done an awful job at it of late. (This was obvious any way, right?)
2.) It's downright amazing that the Bills made the playoffs last year with the band-aided together roster they fielded. 
3.) Even if you DO draft well and your homegrown talent gets a lot of snaps, it's no guarantee of success. Cincinnatti, Cleveland, Dallas, and Green Bay missed the playoffs, despite being in the top 6.
 

 

Someone posts another variation of this stat every few months. It's the result of turning over regimes every 2-3 seasons.

[BillsIsrael]

I think the NFL should address the issue also from a fans perspective - the fans want to cheer for the players that they know - cheering for a player one year and then booing him the next is not good for retaining fans
They should give cap incentives to keep your own players - like after the first contract players that were drafter by a team count only  90% against the cap.
Players (like KW for example) who played for over 8 years in the league and the last 5 for the same team should count only 75% against the  cap if they sign with the same team
This way it gives the teams incentives to keep and grow their own talent and gives the fans continuity

[Dadonkadonk]

17 minutes ago, BillsIsrael said:

I think the NFL should address the issue also from a fans perspective - the fans want to cheer for the players that they know - cheering for a player one year and then booing him the next is not good for retaining fans
They should give cap incentives to keep your own players - like after the first contract players that were drafter by a team count only  90% against the cap.
Players (like KW for example) who played for over 8 years in the league and the last 5 for the same team should count only 75% against the  cap if they sign with the same team
This way it gives the teams incentives to keep and grow their own talent and gives the fans continuity

Agree on your first point. Basically having Larry Bird rights in the NFL.

Veterans do get a discount against the cap. Not sure how it works. It may be only when they pay vet minimum it counts less against the cap.

[BillsIsrael]

12 minutes ago, Dadonkadonk said:

Agree on your first point. Basically having Larry Bird rights in the NFL.

Veterans do get a discount against the cap. Not sure how it works. It may be only when they pay vet minimum it counts less against the cap.

I'm specifically talking about star (or close to star status) players who expect bigger salaries and then leave their teams for bigger paychecks (which is fine, they should get whatever they are worth) but for us fans - the home team should get some kind of cap "discount" for making an effort and keeping them

 

[corta765]

13 hours ago, Buftex said:

Yes, I changed my comment to 2015, for the reasons you mention.  Personally, I think Whaley was a good drafter. I thnk, had Marrone not left when he did, the "drought" would have ended a few years earlier.  Rex Ryan was the de-facto GM...

 

If Whaley gets a second chance with a head coach he is gets to pick or is very close with I wouldn't be surprised if he is moderately successful to really good. His drafts were good minus 16 which like you said was Ryan, he could find guys in FA for next to nothing that worked well, and he got some real steals trading wise. His two big problems were contracts and coexisting with the coach if the coach played a player that wasn't Whaley's guy. I think those two things are fixable.

[auburnbillsbacker]

It is due to the constant changes to the coaching staff and schemes.  This should change over the next 3 years.  

[Kirby Jackson]

6 hours ago, BillsIsrael said:

I think the NFL should address the issue also from a fans perspective - the fans want to cheer for the players that they know - cheering for a player one year and then booing him the next is not good for retaining fans
They should give cap incentives to keep your own players - like after the first contract players that were drafter by a team count only  90% against the cap.
Players (like KW for example) who played for over 8 years in the league and the last 5 for the same team should count only 75% against the  cap if they sign with the same team
This way it gives the teams incentives to keep and grow their own talent and gives the fans continuity

That’s, in essence, what happens in the NBA. You get more money with your team than elsewhere. It’s Bird Rights

[BillsIsrael]

7 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

That’s, in essence, what happens in the NBA. You get more money with your team than elsewhere. It’s Bird Rights

Not an NBA follower - but I guess the NBA got this one right

[Mr. WEO]

18 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Well yea.

 

McBeane basically gave them all away. 

 

 

Deadwood

[John from Riverside]

The correlation that I draw is that last year was a purge of "Whaley" guys going to "Bean guys" we are in the middle of a soft rebiuld

 

It is truly amazing that we made the playoffs doing that.....and a credit to the coaching staff

[Kirby Jackson]

29 minutes ago, BillsIsrael said:

Not an NBA follower - but I guess the NBA got this one right

It worked for a while and definitely works while the guys are young (because the gap is enormous between the current team and the league). The veteran guys have made so much money later in their careers that they move some and take less money. They chase championships in a lot of cases. You probably keep a star though for his first 8-10 seasons no problem.

[Shaw66]

22 hours ago, Dopey said:

New coaching staff and gm taking over for the rex ryan cluster fudge. No surprise there. Trust the process.

When you change coaches every two years, it's a sure thing personnel is going to get flipped.   

 

I think McBeane will get ar teast four years in Buffalo, and you'll see this stat change dramatically.