Jags release RB Chris Ivory - Update! Visited Bills 2/26

[Steptide]

Shady is expendable if we have a better passing game. I don't want to see shady go. I hope he retires a bill, but I coukd see this being the bills thinking 

[YoloinOhio]

3 minutes ago, BigBuff423 said:

 

In terms of "high pick", I'm not sure how you quantify a "high pick", but I'll say IMO, if the Bills trade Shady for a Draft pick, it's probably a 3rd, maybe a 4th. And, IF the Bills attack FA with the money saved by his contract by going after say, Allen Robinson or Sammy Watkins, then a boundary WR is off the list of needs with about the same amount of money spent. Also, depending on how the rest of this FA period rolls out, the Bills *could* stay put and Draft a Rudolph or Jackson, etc., use the other 1st or trade back again and fill their needs. Which means, RB with their second 2nd round pick is an option and just in my mind, I think about what I said up thread, which is would you rather have Shady and Brice Butler or Ronald Jones / Sony Michel and Allen Robinson or Watkins? 

 

Given the new system, I also disagree that he isn't "easily replaced"....there is no one like Shady for sure....he's a rare talent. BUT, the new Offensive system may not value him the way fans do....and Ivory is the back up, and I don't see Shady as the 30 year old juggernaut....so, that means young legs to lead the rushing attack and I just don't think Beane pays a 30 year old Shady to be a part time runner when it comes with that cost. But, time will tell if I'm way off - and I probably am - but that's just my perspective. 

Good points but I love Shady  So I have a hard time accepting he could be gone but I get it. I don’t know much about the new offense, I think we will start to get some hints as we see who they acquire and get rid of over the next few months. 

[MrEpsYtown]

I remeber when we played the Jags November of 2016 and Ivory was beating us up all by himself. He was gashing our defense and I felt like we would totally lose that game, then he got hurt and we were fine. 

 

This guy can be a real beast in a part time role. He is perfect compliment to Shady imo. 

[Gugny]

Having one 30-year-old RB isn't great.  Having two is just plain stupid.  Bills need to get younger.

[Tsaikotic]

1 minute ago, Gugny said:

Having one 30-year-old RB isn't great.  Having two is just plain stupid.  Bills need to get younger.

they still can, just next year...they can plug a few vets in spots and then use draft to rebuild the front 7 this year then go after RB,CB next draft with the extra comp picks

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

I like it simply for the fact that he'd be cheap, he doesn't have a ton of tread on the tires, and i think we'll add a 3rd back in this offense.  

 

Also, as a cap casualty he would not factor into a comp pick formula while simultaneously filling a need.  Not sure what it would look like, but we probably have 3 guys lost in Brown, Gaines, Matthews.  

[Seanbillsfan2206]

5 minutes ago, Gugny said:

Having one 30-year-old RB isn't great.  Having two is just plain stupid.  Bills need to get younger.

Ivory > Tolbert. Get it done OBD

[Gugny]

5 minutes ago, Seanbillsfan2206 said:

Ivory > Tolbert. Get it done OBD

 

Stephen Hawking > Tolbert. 

[YoloinOhio]

9 minutes ago, Tsaikotic said:

they still can, just next year...they can plug a few vets in spots and then use draft to rebuild the front 7 this year then go after RB,CB next draft with the extra comp picks

Correct. They need at least 4 RBs. One will be a rookie.

[Johnny Hammersticks]

1 minute ago, Gugny said:

 

Stephen Hawking > Tolbert. 

 

I needed that today.  Thanks, Gugs.

[Kirby Jackson]

17 minutes ago, Steptide said:

Shady is expendable if we have a better passing game. I don't want to see shady go. I hope he retires a bill, but I coukd see this being the bills thinking 

He’s not expendable. Elite backs aren’t expendable. Look how much better Dallas is when Zeke is on the field. Jacksonville has Fournette and Pittsburgh Bell. The Chiefs offense was better than ever once they added Hunt. The Saints didn’t win again until they had 2 Pro Bowl backs.The Bills would never gut what they do well to do something differently. The biggest misconception in football is that an elite RB doesn’t matter. The NFL has wised up to this over the last few years as we are seeing a return to 1st round RBs.

[NewEra]

37 minutes ago, BigBuff423 said:

 

IMHO, it's about recognizing what the Return on Investment would be....Shady could return either a nice player they need elsewhere and would have a hard time filling via FA or Draft, while RB is a DEEP position in this Draft making it even more accessible for the Bills to maintain production continuity. In other words, if I asked you if you could have Shady and a Brice Butler or Ronald Jones and a Allen Robinson (or possibly Sammy Watkins), which would you choose? If you'd choose the Shady package, fair enough, but considering how the Draft and FA are shaking out, I don't think it's out of the question to consider where best to allocate resources when you're team in the midst of a roster re-shaping. 

I hear ya. I understand your point and while I don’t think it’s a bad plan, I just don’t think it’s the best plan for winning in 2018.  It is the best plan if they’re willing to miss the playoffs in 2018.  I just don’t think that’s what they’ll do.  McBeane is determined to win next season while also building for the future.  Trading shady may be the best bet for the future, but I don’t think it’s in our best interest for winning in 2018.  Shady is still, even at his age, a top 5 rb (even without a qb or WRs to compliment him).  Would’ve loved to see him to play in Gurleys role with the rams last year. He’s been a tremendous leader on the Bills and at the moment, is the face of our franchise.  

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

3 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

He’s not expendable. Elite backs aren’t expendable. Look how much better Dallas is when Zeke is on the field. Jacksonville has Fournette and Pittsburgh Bell. The Chiefs offense was better than ever once they added Hunt. The Saints didn’t win again until they had 2 Pro Bowl backs.The Bills would never gut what they do well to do something differently. The biggest misconception in football is that an elite RB doesn’t matter. The NFL has wised up to this over the last few years as we are seeing a return to 1st round RBs.

 

I mean... NE uses theirs all the time in the passing game.  Philly had the what... #3 rushing attack in the NFL?

 

If you don't have an elite back, you need an elite o-line.  

[Stank_Nasty]

26 minutes ago, Steptide said:

Shady is expendable if we have a better passing game. I don't want to see shady go. I hope he retires a bill, but I coukd see this being the bills thinking 

shady could be a whole different sort of monster with a better passing game freeing him up therefore i'd have to strongly disagree with this.

[Steptide]

6 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

He’s not expendable. Elite backs aren’t expendable. Look how much better Dallas is when Zeke is on the field. Jacksonville has Fournette and Pittsburgh Bell. The Chiefs offense was better than ever once they added Hunt. The Saints didn’t win again until they had 2 Pro Bowl backs.The Bills would never gut what they do well to do something differently. The biggest misconception in football is that an elite RB doesn’t matter. The NFL has wised up to this over the last few years as we are seeing a return to 1st round RBs.

I agree with you, but I don't know that McDermott does. I'm willing to bet they want to pay a running back as little as possible with alot of return. 

[JerseyBills]

28 minutes ago, Steptide said:

Shady is expendable if we have a better passing game. I don't want to see shady go. I hope he retires a bill, but I coukd see this being the bills thinking 

Woah. I respectfully disagree. I don't want to imagine that O without Shady. It's not just the run game but the pass game , he's all world still.

 

As for Ivory, I was a huge fan of his as a Jet, not sure what happened in Jax but if he could return close to that form he'd be a helluva complement to Shady,who im very confident isn't going anywhere.

[Stank_Nasty]

11 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

He’s not expendable. Elite backs aren’t expendable. Look how much better Dallas is when Zeke is on the field. Jacksonville has Fournette and Pittsburgh Bell. The Chiefs offense was better than ever once they added Hunt. The Saints didn’t win again until they had 2 Pro Bowl backs.The Bills would never gut what they do well to do something differently. The biggest misconception in football is that an elite RB doesn’t matter. The NFL has wised up to this over the last few years as we are seeing a return to 1st round RBs.

right. the "dime a dozen" argument drives me nuts. sure a 900-1000 yd back for a season is a dime a dozen. but gamechangers.... ELITE backs are far from a dime a dozen and you have to grab them early.

 

if anything a passing game makes shady a complete NIGHTMARE(even more so than he is now) for opposing defenses. the guy is lethal in space. if teams had to back off and give him that space..... good lord it would be a thing to behold.

Edited February 27, 2018 by Stank_Nasty

[ALF]

31 minutes ago, Steptide said:

Shady is expendable if we have a better passing game. I don't want to see shady go. I hope he retires a bill, but I coukd see this being the bills thinking 

 

Only if it takes McCoy in a deal to trade up for a QB. 

[Kirby Jackson]

6 minutes ago, Steptide said:

I agree with you, but I don't know that McDermott does. I'm willing to bet they want to pay a running back as little as possible with alot of return. 

I’ve never seen a defensive minded coach that didn’t value the running game. 

[JerseyBills]

8 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said:

shady could be a whole different sort of monster with a better passing game freeing him up therefore i'd have to strongly disagree with this.

That's a great point. And he's been an absolute pleasure to watch with a pitiful passing attack. The RB age rule doesn't apply to him.

He runs so intelligently. He rarely gets hit hard , his vision is impeccable and allows him to avoid hits 99% of RB are taking. HE DOESN'T GET ENOUGH CREDIT FOR THIS;

He hasn't lost even half a step imo

Edited February 27, 2018 by JerseyBills

[YoloinOhio]

9 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said:

shady could be a whole different sort of monster with a better passing game freeing him up therefore i'd have to strongly disagree with this.

Exactly. This man is a perennial all-pro when every DC knows he’s the only threat. 

[TheBeane]

I could see this going much like AP in NO last year.  Sign Ivory, draft a RB in the 3rd or 4th. If that rookie pans out and has some potential (like Kamara) cut/trade Ivory to a team with RB injuries.

[YoloinOhio]

3 minutes ago, TheBeane said:

I could see this going much like AP in NO last year.  Sign Ivory, draft a RB in the 3rd or 4th. If that rookie pans out and has some potential (like Kamara) cut/trade Ivory to a team with RB injuries.

 I think some people are forgetting that you need a stable of RBs going into camp. Currently they have Shady and Marcus Murphy under contract. They need to add several RBs.

Edited February 27, 2018 by YoloinOhio

[Kmart128]

Just now, TheBeane said:

I could see this going much like AP in NO last year.  Sign Ivory, draft a RB in the 3rd or 4th. If that rookie pans out and has some potential (like Kamara) cut/trade Ivory to a team with RB injuries.

 

Why would we cut Ivory? Likelihood is it will be a 1 year deal like Vontae's? We keep him on as a 3rd string RB for one season until his 1 year contract expires then we could gain a comp pick.

[BigBuff423]

24 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I hear ya. I understand your point and while I don’t think it’s a bad plan, I just don’t think it’s the best plan for winning in 2018.  It is the best plan if they’re willing to miss the playoffs in 2018.  I just don’t think that’s what they’ll do.  McBeane is determined to win next season while also building for the future.  Trading shady may be the best bet for the future, but I don’t think it’s in our best interest for winning in 2018.  Shady is still, even at his age, a top 5 rb (even without a qb or WRs to compliment him).  Would’ve loved to see him to play in Gurleys role with the rams last year. He’s been a tremendous leader on the Bills and at the moment, is the face of our franchise.  

 

I respectfully disagree about a young Ronald Jones or Sony Michel being able to do what Shady does, in terms of production - not style or talent for elusiveness, he's alone in that category. But, presuming the Bills move back toward more of a power blocking run scheme, then those two RBs will have good years IMO, so I don't think it means the Bills don't make the playoffs if Shady is traded. 

 

What's even harder is to predict when the wheels come off....look, I love Shady since he's come to Buffalo and there is virtually no argument that he hasn't been the BEST Offensive player for the Bills during that time. But, and this one is a big one, good teams know when to off-load talent at just the right time...IMHO, for Shady that time is now - given where the Bills are in their quest to re-shape the roster. I know it's not popular, and it's unlikely, but to me, it's the best chance to win NOW AND in the future. 

[BillsFan2313]

If the Bills sign Ivory, it doesn't mean they won't draft a RB in the middle rounds. Depth is never a bad thing. This would be a good sign. 

[Tsaikotic]

8 minutes ago, Kmart128 said:

 

Why would we cut Ivory? Likelihood is it will be a 1 year deal like Vontae's? We keep him on as a 3rd string RB for one season until his 1 year contract expires then we could gain a comp pick.

yea i agree...I dont see McBeane signing a guy for 1 year and cutting him when he could be used as a comp pick

 

edit: wait I didnt catch the 3rd string till now...Ivory would 2nd right behind McCoy...if Bills draft a guy he would be 3rd string

Edited February 27, 2018 by Tsaikotic

[CaptnCoke11]

5 minutes ago, Kmart128 said:

 

Why would we cut Ivory? Likelihood is it will be a 1 year deal like Vontae's? We keep him on as a 3rd string RB for one season until his 1 year contract expires then we could gain a comp pick.

3rd string?  He’s the immediate back up if signed 

Edited February 27, 2018 by CaptnCoke11

[TheBeane]

6 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

 I think some people are forgetting that you need a stable of RBs going into camp. Currently they have Shady and Marcus Murphy under contract. They need to add several RBs.

That's exactly my thinking.  Have a nice stable of RBs going into camp and let it all sort out from there.  Rather have it that way then find out later in the season that everyone is injured and have to take someone off the PS to fill a spot.

[YoloinOhio]

3 minutes ago, BillsFan2313 said:

If the Bills sign Ivory, it doesn't mean they won't draft a RB in the middle rounds. Depth is never a bad thing. This would be a good sign. 

They have to draft one. Even if they add Ivory  they would still only have 3 RBs under contract and one is a PS guy. They also have Aaron Green but he’s PS too I think. It’s more of a need than a luxury.

[TheFunPolice]

love the idea of Ivory coming in to spell Shady

 

I wouldn't be surprised if TD Mike is a FA this season too. He loved it here and did not want to go to NE, so you never know.

[Jamie Muellers Ghost]

1 hour ago, nucci said:

and no need either. He's not going anywhere. Still our best player

 

I would never be surprised. 9M for a RB is still a big hit.

[nucci]

1 minute ago, Jamie Muellers Ghost said:

 

I would never be surprised. 9M for a RB is still a big hit.

True but still best player  and cap is going up again. Still need top talent to win. I'll be pissed if they get rid of him

[NewEra]

2 minutes ago, BigBuff423 said:

 

I respectfully disagree about a young Ronald Jones or Sony Michel being able to do what Shady does, in terms of production - not style or talent for elusiveness, he's alone in that category. But, presuming the Bills move back toward more of a power blocking run scheme, then those two RBs will have good years IMO, so I don't think it means the Bills don't make the playoffs if Shady is traded. 

 

What's even harder is to predict when the wheels come off....look, I love Shady since he's come to Buffalo and there is virtually no argument that he hasn't been the BEST Offensive player for the Bills during that time. But, and this one is a big one, good teams know when to off-load talent at just the right time...IMHO, for Shady that time is now - given where the Bills are in their quest to re-shape the roster. I know it's not popular, and it's unlikely, but to me, it's the best chance to win NOW AND in the future. 

Production = stats.  Stats don’t win games.  Elite players get the job done when big plays are needed. Take shady off of last years team and replace him with either player and we don’t make the playoffs. No way either of those guys get the job done vs the colts in that snow.  

 

 I love jones and Michel, but I don’t think we’re going to land either one unless we draft them in rd 1 or by trading up in rd 2.  Could be wrong, but it’s my precombine feeling.  I just don’t think getting a 3rd or 4th rd pick for our best player, even at his age, is worth it for 2018.  We become worse the second he leaves.  I agree with the thought that getting rid of players right before they hit their downturn is a smart move.....in most cases.  It may very well be the best decision for us this season.  I just don’t think it’s going to happen, especially if the return is a 4th.  We traded a 3rd for a beaten up broken wr.  I wouldn’t want a 4th for our best player, no matter his age

[BillsFan2313]

6 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

They have to draft one. Even if they add Ivory  they would still only have 3 RBs under contract and one is a PS guy. They also have Aaron Green but he’s PS too I think. It’s more of a need than a luxury.

 

Agreed. We need to find McCoys successor. Now would be the best time to have him learn from one the best for a year. 

[whatdrought]

The Lombardi resides in Philly this year because of depth at key positions. I am definitely fine with adding depth. Would love a vet signing at RB and then a mid-late round rookie to be the future. 

[BigBuff423]

28 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said:

right. the "dime a dozen" argument drives me nuts. sure a 900-1000 yd back for a season is a dime a dozen. but gamechangers.... ELITE backs are far from a dime a dozen and you have to grab them early.

 

if anything a passing game makes shady a complete NIGHTMARE(even more so than he is now) for opposing defenses. the guy is lethal in space. if teams had to back off and give him that space..... good lord it would be a thing to behold.

 

The 2017 Offensive Rookie of the Year was a 3rd round Running Back....I'm not arguing that every 3rd Round RB is a Kamara, but what I AM saying, is that with proper diligence and scouting, a team CAN find a great value in any round for any position. So, by extension, I don't think it's a huge reach to think that if the Bills traded Shady, that they could find a great RB to replace his production. I really like Shady, but at this point, the R.O.I. just isn't there for me, and I'm not completely sure it's there for Beane and McD either. 

[BuffaloBillsMagic1]

I would wait until Gilislee gets cut by the Pats and jump on him

 

[CommonCents]

No thanks on Ivory he fumbles too damn much. In 2016 he fumbled 5 times on 117 attempts that is 4.3 percent of the time and one of the worst statistical performances for a RB with over 100 carries. He has two fumbles this year in limited action. I'm all for finding a short yardage moose, just make sure he can hold onto the ball.

Edited February 27, 2018 by Commonsense

[BigBuff423]

Just now, NewEra said:

Production = stats.  Stats don’t win games.  Elite players get the job done when big plays are needed. Take shady off of last years team and replace him with either player and we don’t make the playoffs. No way either of those guys get the job done vs the colts in that snow.  

 

 I love jones and Michel, but I don’t think we’re going to land either one unless we draft them in rd 1 or by trading up in rd 2.  Could be wrong, but it’s my precombine feeling.  I just don’t think getting a 3rd or 4th rd pick for our best player, even at his age, is worth it for 2018.  We become worse the second he leaves.  I agree with the thought that getting rid of players right before they hit their downturn is a smart move.....in most cases.  It may very well be the best decision for us this season.  I just don’t think it’s going to happen, especially if the return is a 4th.  We traded a 3rd for a beaten up broken wr.  I wouldn’t want a 4th for our best player, no matter his age

 

But that's failing to account for all the other changes to come in this Off-season. For example, I would hope the next QB of the Bills is a MUCH better passer adding tremendous impact in the Offense by passing the ball better and with more scoring overall. Additionally, adding new DT / LB talent will help the Defense and the Bills just signed Vontae Davis. These will add to a better team, making the reliance on Shady as the end-all-be-all tool obsolete as few teams handle their Offense this way in the modern NFL. Also, Shady has been electric, but I don't really need to point to how unkind history is to 30 year old RBs....almost to the day, it's a significant drop-off. But, we shall agree to disagree....all good.