Super Bowl Champion Coach Pederson offers advice to Buffalo Bills (or all middling teams)

[CommonCents]

1 hour ago, bmur66 said:

If you have talent on your team then you can take more chances. If not then you have to be more conservative like the Bills were last year. I don't think I would categorize McD as overly conservative without a few seasons of data.

It's funny you see all these folks being critical of McD and his approach but you will never see them do a little research.

 

The Bills were the worst in the league on 4th down conversions. 13 percent success rate. Yeah go for it more.....

[thebandit27]

Just now, ProcessTheTrust said:

I guess we'll have to disagree. The guy was aggressive early and often. In that scenario at that end, not trying to eat clock and ensure an 8 point lead would have been insane. He's aggressive...maybe not Madden aggressive, but for an NFL HC, he's right up there. But if you need to win  the argument, you win. 12 points for you.

 

Oh I agree that he's aggressive; the reason I keep mentioning his approach to the game's ending is that it was a total departure from the way he coached the rest of the game...in other words, in the most critical moment, he went conservative.

 

I find it more interesting than anything.

[Magox]

I think as a general philosophy for a team to have a higher chance of succeeding he is correct.

 

 

Having said that, not all teams are created equal and not all teams should make the same game time decisions in respect to risk taking based on their player personnel.  How well your defense plays, the type of QB you have, the play makers available, your offensive line and the overall competence of the play calling all factor in to what sort of risks you are able to take and execute.  

[thebandit27]

Just now, Magox said:

I think as a general philosophy for a team to have a higher chance of succeeding he is correct.

 

 

Having said that, not all teams are created equal and not all teams should make the same game time decisions in respect to risk taking based on their player personnel.  How well your defense plays, the type of QB you have, the play makers available, your offensive line and the overall competence of the play calling all factor in to what sort of risks you are able to take and execute.  

 

Yep...exactly my sentiment as well

[McBean]

Doug Pederson has brass balls. He took down the greatest dynasty in football history because he knew punting and field goals weren’t going to get the job done. I’ve been screaming for years playcalling against the Pats like we saw last night. It was refreshing to finally see a HC not back down to those punks.

[ProcessTheTrust]

1 minute ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Oh I agree that he's aggressive; the reason I keep mentioning his approach to the game's ending is that it was a total departure from the way he coached the rest of the game...in other words, in the most critical moment, he went conservative.

 

I find it more interesting than anything.

I'm just not seeing it that way. It didn't feel that way one bit. It's all situational. When he knew he had to keep swinging, he did so. In that moment at the end, he knew he couldn't risk incompletions or even worse, an INT, and allow Brady all that time with only a 5 point lead. It was the exact right approach. Eat the clock and take the 8 point lead.

[thebandit27]

3 minutes ago, ProcessTheTrust said:

I'm just not seeing it that way. It didn't feel that way one bit. It's all situational. When he knew he had to keep swinging, he did so. In that moment at the end, he knew he couldn't risk incompletions or even worse, an INT, and allow Brady all that time with only a 5 point lead. It was the exact right approach. Eat the clock and take the 8 point lead.

 

I didn't say it was wrong; I said it was conservative, and not the aggressive approach he took all game.

 

And that's true.

[ProcessTheTrust]

Just now, thebandit27 said:

 

I didn't say it was wrong; I said it was conservative, and not the aggressive approach he took all game.

 

And that's true.

I guess I'm misunderstanding what your definitions of aggressive and conservative must be. In my understanding, aggressive would be the tendency to lean towards the risky play and conservative would be the tendency to lean towards the safe play. In my view, Pederson remained aggressive throughout without crossing the boundaries of insanity. Come on.

[thebandit27]

4 minutes ago, ProcessTheTrust said:

I guess I'm misunderstanding what your definitions of aggressive and conservative must be. In my understanding, aggressive would be the tendency to lean towards the risky play and conservative would be the tendency to lean towards the safe play. In my view, Pederson remained aggressive throughout without crossing the boundaries of insanity. Come on.

 

Yes, that's correct...

 

11 minutes ago, ProcessTheTrust said:

I'm just not seeing it that way. It didn't feel that way one bit. It's all situational. When he knew he had to keep swinging, he did so. In that moment at the end, he knew he couldn't risk incompletions or even worse, an INT, and allow Brady all that time with only a 5 point lead. It was the exact right approach. Eat the clock and take the 8 point lead.

 

Didn't take a risk; by your own definition above: conservative.

 

Taking two shots at gaining 6 yards is, IMO, not insane in comparison to running the ball, attempting a 46-yard FG with a rookie kicker on a night when kickers were having below-average success, and then giving the ball to the best Super Bowl QB of all time with a full minute on the clock.

 

We can certainly agree to disagree regarding whether or not it was the correct call, since that's an opinion statement.

 

I'd respectfully submit that whether he took the aggressive or conservative route, however, isn't really up for debate.

Edited February 5, 2018 by thebandit27

[xRUSHx]

27 minutes ago, FearLess Price said:

 

Except for that time where ALynn got promoted from RB coach to OC.  Then OC to HC. Then went to a better team as a HC. Lmao

 

If we dont draft a QB early in the 1st. Im gonna be pissed. We shouldve grabbed mahomes or watson last year. This year will be mutiny if they dont take a good one.

 

I agree with the second paragraph but the first paragragh was Rex giving the promotion because he fired Tyrods first OC and IMO Lynn was the only OC wanting the job.  Lynn's second promotion came because we needed a fill in to finish off the Rex firing. Lynn did so well at it they did NOT ask him to return to the BILLS to continue at it. He was FIRED and then got another chance at it with a different team. Just like many do.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

41 minutes ago, Niagara Dude said:

You don't win games against NE with ground and pound game plan,  this is a passing league and losers will always think they can ground and pound while NE continues to pass their way to Super Bowl after Super Bowl.  He was smart enough to understand you are not beat Brady with FG'S. 

 

The fact that Bills have one worst group of wr's in the NFL tells you everything you need to know what they want to do.

 

I mean - yes and no.  Philadelphia ran the ball plenty in that game, and they ran it really well.  

[thebandit27]

43 minutes ago, Niagara Dude said:

You don't win games against NE with ground and pound game plan,  this is a passing league and losers will always think they can ground and pound while NE continues to pass their way to Super Bowl after Super Bowl.  He was smart enough to understand you are not beat Brady with FG'S. 

 

The fact that Bills have one worst group of wr's in the NFL tells you everything you need to know what they want to do.

 

Teams that want to ground and pound as their long-term success plan probably don't swing a midseason trade for Kelvin Benjamin.

[ProcessTheTrust]

4 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Yes, that's correct...

 

 

Didn't take a risk; by your own definition above: conservative.

 

Taking two shots at gaining 6 yards is, IMO, not insane in comparison to running the ball, attempting a 46-yard FG with a rookie kicker on a night when kickers were having below-average success, and then giving the ball to the best Super Bowl QB of all time with a full minute on the clock.

 

We can certainly agree to disagree regarding whether or not it was the correct call, since that's an opinion statement.

 

I'd respectfully submit that whether he took the aggressive or conservative route, however, isn't really up for debate.

You are ignoring that I said TENDENCY. That leaves room for real life situations, not a kid playing Madden. I apologize for not dropping the debate. I'm just catching up on your other comments. I didn't realize this was really just an attempt to justify us as not being conservative. I won't be harsh on McBeane yet, I'm happy in where we are headed. But I stand firm on agreeing with Pederson. He didn't relent, he just catered to a very very specific scenario. There was no philosophical switch that should baffle anyone...unless they just want to keep an argument going.

Edited February 5, 2018 by ProcessTheTrust

[FearLess Price]

1 minute ago, xRUSHx said:

I agree with the second paragraph but the first paragragh was Rex giving the promotion because he fired Tyrods first OC and IMO Lynn was the only OC wanting the job.  Lynn's second promotion came because we needed a fill in to finish off the Rex firing. Lynn did so well at it they did NOT ask him to return to the BILLS to continue at it. He was FIRED and then got another chance at it with a different team. Just like many do.

 

He did well enough in Buffalo to become head coach of a better team. Thats it.

 

He coached the Bills offense to score the most points it has since 1990.

 

Thats why he got promoted.

[PromoTheRobot]

Taking chances is a great strategy....unless you have a crappy team. Then it's basically the same as a turnover.

[BillsFan130]

Exactly!

 

Yet some people still think punting on 4th and 1 in overtime, when it was a must win game was the right call by Mcd... (the colts game needless to say)

 

If eagles weren’t aggressive last night, they would have lost 

[xRUSHx]

13 minutes ago, FearLess Price said:

 

He did well enough in Buffalo to become head coach of a better team. Thats it.

 

He coached the Bills offense to score the most points it has since 1990.

 

Thats why he got promoted.

Rex did so well with the Jests he got fired and got the same job here. Coaches move around the league. All I am saying is Lynn did not get a promotion from the Bills, he got a offer to continue as HC with different team, just like Rex.

He got fired from team A to go do the same job with team B, not a promotion.

 

If Chargers are a better team how come the Bills made the wild card and they did not?

Edited February 5, 2018 by xRUSHx

[thebandit27]

6 minutes ago, ProcessTheTrust said:

You are ignoring that I said TENDENCY. That leaves room for real life situations, not a kid playing Madden.

 

The original post of yours that I responded to said nothing of the like:

 

41 minutes ago, ProcessTheTrust said:

A fantastic quote with the literal proof to back it up. Spin it any way you want, unless you have a legendary D that can win games for you, Pederson is exactly right.

 

Philly didn't have a "legendary" D; especially not last night; they forced zero punts.

 

I think you've gotten yourself a bit too deep in defending a stance you don't need to take.

 

My point was quite simple: the guy coached an aggressive game for 58 minutes, and yet when he had the chance to make the aggressive call (by having 2 shots at a first down to keep Brady off the field at the possible cost of 45 seconds and 20 yards of field position), he decided to go conservative.

 

We can laud his aggressive moves for the first 58 minutes, but I think it's just as prudent to recognize that, while doing so, we should also acknowledge that he passed up a very real opportunity to carry his aggressiveness through.

 

Edited February 5, 2018 by thebandit27

[Gary M]

2 hours ago, joesixpack said:

 

What about 4th on your own 40?

 

Flat out brass ones.

[ProcessTheTrust]

3 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

The original post of yours that I responded to said nothing of the like:

 

 

I think you've gotten yourself a bit too deep in defending a stance you don't need to take.

 

My point was quite simple: the guy coached an aggressive game for 58 minutes, and yet when he had the chance to make the aggressive call (by having 2 shots at a first down to keep Brady off the field at the possible cost of 45 seconds and 20 yards of field position), he decided to go conservative.

 

We can laud his aggressive moves for the first 58 minutes, but I think it's just as prudent to recognize that, while doing so, we should also acknowledge that he passed up a very real opportunity to carry his aggressiveness through.

 

I concede. You have to be right. Took me a while but now I get it. The guy went toe-to-toe with the Pats, only punted once all day, and when he had a chance to put the unquestionable nail in the coffin, he settled for a risky (your words) FG to hold an 8 point lead. While most of the world can't see it, you do, and now I do too. I will help spread your message and together, we will convince everyone that Pederson wasn't really aggressive for 60 full minutes.

Edited February 5, 2018 by ProcessTheTrust

[PromoTheRobot]

2 minutes ago, Gary M said:

Flat out brass ones.

It also helps that the Patriots, for whatever reason, were no longer under the protection of Roger Goodell. They actually had to win the game themselves. Did Roger pay attention to his own market research that said the Patriot neverending dynasty was hurting business?

[Happy]

2 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

My point was quite simple: the guy coached an aggressive game for 58 minutes, and yet when he had the chance to make the aggressive call (by having 2 shots at a first down to keep Brady off the field at the possible cost of 45 seconds and 20 yards of field position), he decided to go conservative.

 

We can laud his aggressive moves for the first 58 minutes, but I think it's just as prudent to recognize that, while doing so, we should also acknowledge that he passed up a very real opportunity to carry his aggressiveness through.

 

I agree with this.  I'm a bit surprised that Pederson went so conservative inside 3 minutes left in the game and deep in Pats territory.  I would have expected that he take a shot or two at the end zone to try and end the game, but didn't.  I think the Eagles were fortunate that the defense, which didn't play exceptional at all throughout the game, was able to get to Brady enough at the end of the game. 

[ddaryl]

everybody loves taking a chance when it works out.. When it doesn't work out nobody will ever let you forget how screwed up you were for taking an unecessary chance.

 

these hindsight threads are a laugh riot...

 

todays NFL, yesterdays NFL, all pass happy, or dominating run game, defense wins chamionships, or a future HOF QB, it all comes down to to 2 things. Talent and execution...

 

 

[Lurker]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Whoaoa!  Now this is Exhibit A of how, when you get a guy out from under his mentor, he may morph in a way you do NOT expect.  3 years under Andy Reid as OC did NOT lead me to predict this quote!

 

Great training for leaning what NOT to do, however...

[thebandit27]

4 minutes ago, ProcessTheTrust said:

I concede. You have to be right. Took me a while but now I get it. The guy went toe-to-toe with the Pats, only punted once all day, and when he had a chance to put the unquestionable nail in the coffin, he settled for a risky (your words) FG to hold an 8 point lead. While most of the world can't see it, you do, and now I do too. I will help spread your message and together, we will convince everyone that Pederson wasn't really aggressive for 60 full minutes.

 

There's no reason to get upset.

 

The entire crux of our exchange stems from the idea that his approach to the final 2 minutes was a departure from the way he coached the rest of the game.

 

I actually have no idea why you're so dug in on having to defend the other 58 minutes of coaching.

 

2 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

I agree with this.  I'm a bit surprised that Pederson went so conservative inside 3 minutes left in the game and deep in Pats territory.  I would have expected that he take a shot or two at the end zone to try and end the game, but didn't.  I think the Eagles were fortunate that the defense, which didn't play exceptional at all throughout the game, was able to get to Brady enough at the end of the game. 

 

Yes, exactly.

 

I was surprised by the radical shift in philosophy.

[RyanC883]

2 hours ago, Fan in Chicago said:

I fully agree. You have to have the horses, on both sides of the ball, to be aggressive. Way too many weaknesses on the Bills this year on O and D which forces a general conservativeness

 

oh please.  We had K. Williams all year available as a FB, and we used it once!!!   Fridge Perry time w/ Williams! 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Niagara Dude said:

You don't win games against NE with ground and pound game plan,  this is a passing league and losers will always think they can ground and pound while NE continues to pass their way to Super Bowl after Super Bowl.  He was smart enough to understand you are not beat Brady with FG'S. 

 

The fact that Bills have one worst group of wr's in the NFL tells you everything you need to know what they want to do.

 

I don't think the Bills set out to have one of the worst groups of WR in the league, so I don't think it tells you dikdik about what the Bills "want to do".  Moving up to draft Zay Jones and trading mid-season for Kelvin Benjamin wouldn't support the "plans" notion.  It turned out that way because Zay Jones and Benjamin both struggled, sometimes plans don't work out.

 

You win games against NE by keeping the ball away from their offense and scoring points with yours.  While it's not classic "ground and pound", the Eagles gained 164 yds on the ground, and had the advantage of 8 minutes in TOP.   Being able to gain some yards on the ground, and being able to hold onto it, both had their place.

[BillsfanAZ]

I want to say McD may have found that out with Dennison and Tyrod so he hired Daboll. Now just time to get some weapons on offense. 

[cba fan]

1 hour ago, xRUSHx said:

He got fired from the Bills.

Many coaches get better jobs after getting fired. Let's not pretend he got a promotion here, he got fired from here, not asked to return, that is FIRED.

 

Many assume we are going all in on getting a better QB, sadly after so many years of fail at OBD at pulling the trigger on one we could be talking QB again next off season again with Tyrod still in the fold here.

WTH: Lynn was promoted to OC. He was never fired by Bills.

 

He interviewed for Bills HC and was not hired as HC. He was then hired by SD. He left, much more so than he was fired. McDermott never had a chance to consider him for OC and very unlikely Lynn would have taken it since he was in line for a HC job.

[xRUSHx]

2 hours ago, cba fan said:

WTH: Lynn was promoted to OC. He was never fired by Bills.

 

He interviewed for Bills HC and was not hired as HC. He was then hired by SD. He left, much more so than he was fired. McDermott never had a chance to consider him for OC and very unlikely Lynn would have taken it since he was in line for a HC job.

Yes Rex promoted him to OC,(IMO because nobody else wanted the OC job under Rex or to dumb down there scheme with Tyrod). He was then given HC job when Rex was fired to finish things off. Then the Bills told him they wanted someone else at HC so he was FIRED as HC with the Bills. Word it whatever he was let go. It was a lateral move for him from Bills HC to LA HC, that is NOT a promotion. He also got fired to make the move, the Bills gave him a interview to be nice IMO but offered him nothing to stay.

Edited February 5, 2018 by xRUSHx

[Jamie Muellers Ghost]

6 hours ago, RalphWilson'sNewWar said:

“You learn if you play passive, if you play conservative, if you call plays conservatively, you are going to be 8-8, 9-7 every year.  Every year. Frank and I just having that collaborative spirit to talk about things and talk with our quarterbacks and just come up with ways of keeping this game fresh and fun and exciting for our players. And that’s really where it all stems from.”

 

post of the year

[Jerome007]

I think the point the coach is making is that being aggressive AND innovative, putting new wrinkles in the mix, keeps the players focused in practices and over the season, which adds over time. The difference between 8-8 and 10-6 is a few plays here and there. So everything to get your players to be more driven, more accountable, by themselves, out of their own will, sure makes a difference over the season. Not to mention it often makes strategic sense to go for it at times! 

[The Jokeman]

5 hours ago, TheTruthHurts said:

Question is will Frank Reich get a head coaching job before McDermott is inevitably fired? 

Frank doesn't do any play calling in Philly, not sure if he did in San Diego. I like him as a person but I'm not sure Frank will ever be a HC as not sure he has the "fire" to be one. Also by making the playoffs think McDermott has bought himself at least three more seasons here and can't see Reich being a HC candidate the next few years.

[Buddy Hix]

5 hours ago, poblano said:

Stop with that. Your QB came from  a 65 yards passing  game and you think still playing him is be agressive. The move certainly  wasn't go well but not was  a consevative move.

 

And play agressive without smarts is stupid

I thought and still think the move was aggressive. I can't tell from your incoherent post if you agree.

5 hours ago, FearLess Price said:

 

After Dennisons firing, im all in on the "it  was Dennisons call to bench Tyrod" conspiracy. McDerm took the heat cuz hes the HC but promptly fired him at seasons end.

 

I think with a better offense we will call more aggressive game plans next year. McDerm has to have confidence our team can execute those calls before he hits the red button.

Good point about the team showing growth before the coach can.

[Buffalo Bills Fan]

Eagles deserved and glad they won. Always said stay aggressive vs Pats no matter the score or what. Lots of teams go soft like Bills did most of last season and went horrible. No lead are safe until clock hit zero. 

[HappyDays]

I don't get why people think McDermott is an especially conservative coach. We had 15 4th down attempts this year, which ranks 15th in the NFL despite the fact that we only converted on 13.3% of them. I bet McDermott would go on 4th down a lot more if he knew we could actually convert them. He also benched his starting QB for a 5th round rookie in the middle of a playoff race. That move ultimately ended up looking stupid but it has to be one of the least conservative coaching moves of all time.

[simool]

6 hours ago, RalphWilson'sNewWar said:

“You learn if you play passive, if you play conservative, if you call plays conservatively, you are going to be 8-8, 9-7 every year.  Every year. Frank and I just having that collaborative spirit to talk about things and talk with our quarterbacks and just come up with ways of keeping this game fresh and fun and exciting for our players. And that’s really where it all stems from.”

 

I wholeheartedly agree with this. If I am going down, I am going down swinging.

[cba fan]

1 hour ago, xRUSHx said:

Yes Rex promoted him to OC,(IMO because nobody else wanted the OC job under Rex or to dumb down there scheme with Tyrod). He was then given HC job when Rex was fired to finish things off. Then the Bills told him they wanted someone else at HC so he was FIRED as HC with the Bills. Word it whatever he was let go. It was a lateral move for him from Bills HC to LA HC, that is NOT a promotion. He also got fired to make the move, the Bills gave him a interview to be nice IMO but offered him nothing to stay.

Yeah not too far off.....just a matter of semantics opinion etc etc.......

 

I would say that interim HC(especially one game) with likely no pay raise from his pay before they promoted him to OC after two games in by Rex vs multi million dollar per yr multi year contractual actual HC are two very different positions and an actual promotion. NFL regulations for hiring would agree with that assessment. IMO.

 

I believe McDermottt did not want or felt Lynn would never stay as OC as he wanted to be a HC. But there was chatter he could return as OC if he did not get HC position.

But for hypothetical and put another way: would NFL have allowed Bills to deny Lynn, who was essentially on a RB coach salary, to interview with Chargers for HC as they wished to hold onto him to see if Bills new coach wanted to hire him as OC??

 

I don't think so and likely would have opened Bills up to a grievance procedure. Pegs would never do such a thing. It is suicide in trying to attract assistants. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

2 hours ago, The Jokeman said:

Frank doesn't do any play calling in Philly, not sure if he did in San Diego. I like him as a person but I'm not sure Frank will ever be a HC as not sure he has the "fire" to be one. Also by making the playoffs think McDermott has bought himself at least three more seasons here and can't see Reich being a HC candidate the next few years.

Head coaches don't have to call plays.

[John from Riverside]

Having talent on the team never hurts