Remind Me - Why Didn't We Make a Run at Nick Foles?

[SoTier]

1 hour ago, The Frankish Reich said:

OK. you officially have Folesophobia. Or maybe Tyrodomania. So let’s ask the next diagnostic question:  you are an NFL GM. You need a veteran QB. Assume both Foles and Tyrod are available as unrestricted free agents, and assume their respective agents have signaled that they will both sign 2 year deals on equivalent financial terms. Assume all other things are equal (you can factor in injury risk if you’d like, but no fair speculating that either one may have a hidden injury right now; assume both will be healthy at the time of signing). These are the only two choices. No “I’d draft someone/I’d trade for Alex Smith” responses allowed. 

Which one do you sign?

A. Foles

B. Tyrod

And please justify your choice. 

 

I want option C. Taylor with the Eagles offense backed up by the Eagles defense.  Get a clue: Foles is playing in a QB friendly system that Pedersen and his staff have tailored to his strengths. He has one of the best if not the best OL in the NFL protecting him, a top notch running game, and good NFL quality receivers.  Tyrod Taylor played in a system that didn't fit him behind an OL that struggled most of the season to protect the QB and open holes for the RBs.  He had only 1 NFL quality WR, and only late in the season.   Switch Foles and Taylor in 2017, and you'd be whining about why ever did we dump Taylor for Foles.

 

Whether you have a great QB or a crappy one, the guys around him are going to contribute to his success.  It's a team game and you can't ignore that.    In a better offensive system, Taylor has looked better with less talent (2015 and 2016) than Foles has looked except for 2013 under Chip Kelly and the last two games with Philly.   Some really lousy QBs have managed to look good for a few games, so I'd go with Taylor.

 

 

Edited January 22, 2018 by SoTier

[BeginnersMind]

7 hours ago, baskingridgebillsfan said:

it is not just foles.  They passed a bunch of vets over the last thee years.  And Taylor did not lead them anywhere , he went along for the ride.  

 

You shortchange Tyrod. He’s been a solid QB when you add his rushing yards and lack of turnovers. I don’t want him as starter but he’s not Johnny Manziel. 

 

I don’t want the Bills to give the farm for Foles. But if they got him in a reasonable trade, he’s about all I expect this off/season. Tom Brady isn’t out there as a free agent people. And in the draft, the Bills pick too low to get a monster. It’s going to be a retread. Foles. Smith. Bradford. Of those three, I pick Foles with an eye on Bradford. 

Edited January 22, 2018 by BeginnersMind

[Jauronimo]

Do we really need these threads every time some journey man stumbles across a good game?  Where was this thread during Foles last 4 outings?

 

 

[Alphadawg7]

20 hours ago, The Frankish Reich said:

5 years, $27.5 million with certain incentives and "escalators" that could add another $11 million.  So if he performs well, the top end is 38.5 million. And if he performs poorly, it is essentially voidable by the Eagles after 2 years.

 

Tyrod: 2 years, $30.5 million.

 

And he is obviously a better fit for the Dennison offense than Tyrod was. For those of you who'd say, "where we you when he was a free agent" - I was right here, suggesting that Foles was far and away the best "bridge" QB free agent out there ....

 

Welcome to the world of hindsight.  Foles destroyed his reputation playing awful for the Rams.  No one here or around the league was looking at Foles as an answer, in fact, the few times it was brought up everyone would pile on and say he sucks.  Just like everyone said Keenum sucks.  

 

So, cant go back and now pretend Foles was a clear cut guy for us and we screwed the pooch.  No one wanted him, which is why he signed on to the Eagles to backup their franchise QB they just drafted despite so many teams who needed a QB.

 

But around these parts, hindsight threads are wildly popular.

Edited January 22, 2018 by Alphadawg7

[Solomon Grundy]

I got trolled and almost laughed off TSW when I mentioned this.

[Alphadawg7]

The answer is the same reason we didn't draft Tom Brady or Kurt Warner.  Because no one has hindsight when the opportunities are there.  Foles was QB fodder when he was cut from the Rams.

Edited January 22, 2018 by Alphadawg7

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

21 hours ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Would Tyrod, even in your wildest dreams, have played this strong a half against the best defense in the NFL? You're in the "don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good" territory here ...

 

No - but i do think the eagles win that game with Tyrod playing QB.  

[NastyNateSoldiers]

21 hours ago, jmc12290 said:

Because Tyrod is our QB. And he puts a magic spell on his own coaches that make them all fire OC's for not making him perfect.

That's what Tyrod did to Mcd, Mcd is a sucker for hard work to a fault.  I say that because he looks like he puts that ahead of everything including being talented. Tyrod showed up everyday in offseason working his tail off. Mcd was sold no matter the short comings as a passer.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Welcome to the world of hindsight.  Foles destroyed his reputation playing awful for the Rams.  No one here or around the league was looking at Foles as an answer, in fact, the few times it was brought up everyone would pile on and say he sucks.  Just like everyone said Keenum sucks.  

 

So, cant go back and now pretend Foles was a clear cut guy for us and we screwed the pooch.  No one wanted him, which is why he signed on to the Eagles to backup their franchise QB they just drafted despite so many teams who needed a QB.

 

But around these parts, hindsight threads are wildly popular.

 

.....funny how that works around here....wasn't Keenum the most prolific passer in NCAA history and was a UDFA out of Houston?....certainly NOT diminishing his 2017 accomplishments by any means......how many wanted The Cutlet?....or.....Glennon?.......Kaep (done-figured out)?....RG II 5/8 (WELL done)?.......Kolb was probably in the top 5 worst signings in OBD history.....became a commodity because of a few games in Philly and 'Zona signed him to big bucks......and despite having no less than FIVE known concussions, OBD signs him to be the vet presence despite his suspect noodle....and then "The Mat".......

[Big Turk]

Because you obviously didn't watch the other games he played in this year before making this thread.

[Freddie's Dead]

Foles is a Dow Joneser.  Right now he's hot.  Back when we had a shot at him, he wasn't.  

[Big Gun]

9 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

TT has never had a big contract from an NFL QB perspective and if it were up to Whaley he wouldn't have been a Buffalo Bill in 2017.  The fact that he's still around was a McDermott decision.  At any rate, Foles is a backup QB at the NFL level. 

So what does that say about your boy Tyrod because Foles is 100x better than Tyrod. 

[The Frankish Reich]

2 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

I want option C. Taylor with the Eagles offense backed up by the Eagles defense.  Get a clue: Foles is playing in a QB friendly system that Pedersen and his staff have tailored to his strengths. He has one of the best if not the best OL in the NFL protecting him, a top notch running game, and good NFL quality receivers.  Tyrod Taylor played in a system that didn't fit him behind an OL that struggled most of the season to protect the QB and open holes for the RBs.  He had only 1 NFL quality WR, and only late in the season.   Switch Foles and Taylor in 2017, and you'd be whining about why ever did we dump Taylor for Foles.

 

Whether you have a great QB or a crappy one, the guys around him are going to contribute to his success.  It's a team game and you can't ignore that.    In a better offensive system, Taylor has looked better with less talent (2015 and 2016) than Foles has looked except for 2013 under Chip Kelly and the last two games with Philly.   Some really lousy QBs have managed to look good for a few games, so I'd go with Taylor.

 

 

People will obviously see what they want to see. The offense was "tailored to Foles' strengths?" Curious to be tailoring your offense around your backup QB's talents.  I thought the offense was tailored to the strengths of their actual starting QB, a QB known for his mobility .... yes, they changed things up a bit when Foles took over, which is probably part of the reason his first couple games weren't very impressive.  

And I keep hearing "but Foles was benched for Case Keenum," as if Tyrod was never benched for .... the great Nathan Peterman.

1 hour ago, matter2003 said:

Because you obviously didn't watch the other games he played in this year before making this thread.

No, I didn't. But I did watch every single game Mr. Taylor played this year, and remember, in making this thread I was saying that the Bills were fools for re-signing Taylor when a somewhat better QB was (1) available; (2) cheaper. I also know that: (3) Tyrod Taylor has never had a sustained run of excellent play akin to Foles' 2013 10-game run; (4) Tyrod Taylor has never, and will never, have a single game as good as Foles had yesterday against the worst defense in the league, something Foles did against the best defense in the league; (5) Tyrod was re-signed to allow management to embark on the fools errand of making him a pocket passer adept at timing routes, something that Nick Foles seems reasonably proficient at (and has been quite proficient at over the course of his career).

Edited January 23, 2018 by The Frankish Reich

[stuvian]

Foles looks like a system guy 

[transplantbillsfan]

9 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Welcome to the world of hindsight.  Foles destroyed his reputation playing awful for the Rams.  No one here or around the league was looking at Foles as an answer, in fact, the few times it was brought up everyone would pile on and say he sucks.  Just like everyone said Keenum sucks.  

 

So, cant go back and now pretend Foles was a clear cut guy for us and we screwed the pooch.  No one wanted him, which is why he signed on to the Eagles to backup their franchise QB they just drafted despite so many teams who needed a QB.

 

But around these parts, hindsight threads are wildly popular.

 

This is why I'll be minimally here over the next couple months likely til FA gets going.

 

The conversations the next couple months are going to be pointless because everyone is going to use those hindsight goggles to say how we should have gone out to get Nick Foles or Case Keenum.

 

Neither of them were worth getting then and still aren't worth getting.

 

First of all, both of those guys are seriously products of the fantastic offensive players around them combined with excellent offensive play callers.

 

Think Foles or Keenum seriously would have been successful with Dinosaur Dennison (who has NEVER had any real success as an OC, anyway and just got fired for a reason), twin stone hand Clay (good TE... problem with the dropsies) & Jones (who sucked this year... pray he's better next year), Jordan Matthews, an injured Kelvin Benjamin and Deonte Thompson as opposed to  Shurmer (who earned a HC gig

for his work with a blah QB), Rudolph, well good GOD just look at the contrast WRs of Diggs, Thielan, Wright, Floyd, Treadwell OR Reich (miss him) as OC & Pederson as an

offe minded HC, Ertz & Celek, Agholor, Jeffrey and Torrey Smith.

 

This goes without talking about how both the Vikings and Eagles have excellent offensive lines that have provided great pass protection.

 

 

What's annoying is that I hope like hell that the Eagles win the Super Bowl while knowing people are going to suddenly idiotically start talking about Foles as a Franchise QB.

 

Dude... he's a fringe starter at best who's riding the coat tails of all the players and coaches around him.

 

Really hope the Eagles win. Doesn't change what Foles is.

 

We want better in Buffalo and this is the offseason we finally do that rather than settling for retreads like Foles, Keenum, Smith or McCown!

 

Darnold/Mayfield/Rudolph or bust!!!  

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

12 hours ago, The Frankish Reich said:

People will obviously see what they want to see. The offense was "tailored to Foles' strengths?" Curious to be tailoring your offense around your backup QB's talents.  I thought the offense was tailored to the strengths of their actual starting QB, a QB known for his mobility .... yes, they changed things up a bit when Foles took over, which is probably part of the reason his first couple games weren't very impressive.  

And I keep hearing "but Foles was benched for Case Keenum," as if Tyrod was never benched for .... the great Nathan Peterman.

 

No, I didn't. But I did watch every single game Mr. Taylor played this year, and remember, in making this thread I was saying that the Bills were fools for re-signing Taylor when a somewhat better QB was (1) available; (2) cheaper. I also know that: (3) Tyrod Taylor has never had a sustained run of excellent play akin to Foles' 2013 10-game run; (4) Tyrod Taylor has never, and will never, have a single game as good as Foles had yesterday against the worst defense in the league, something Foles did against the best defense in the league; (5) Tyrod was re-signed to allow management to embark on the fools errand of making him a pocket passer adept at timing routes, something that Nick Foles seems reasonably proficient at (and has been quite proficient at over the course of his career).

 

Dude, you are not listening to us. Believe me, you are whistling a different tune if you have followed his career over the past five or so years like Philly natives have.

 

You have not seen his bad games. His good games make Tyrod look small, but his bad games make Tyrod look like Russel Wilson. The last few years had seen a stretch of really bad play, and he didn't even throw the ball all preseason because he was rehabbing from an injury. Few GMs are going to throw big money at a guy whos last success was five years ago. You are basing this gut reaction based on one really, really good game.

 

Yes, he had a very good run in 2013. It was also, as I have pointed out, with an offensive system that was brand new to the NFL which coordinators had not caught up with yet, along with a Pro Bowl level Desean Jackdon, Shady having his best rushing year ever, and an offensive line that was graded out as the best in the NFL.

 

You are making a call 100% on hindsight, ignoring all the games from the past three years when Foles looked like a bottom feeder instead of an All Pro, and disregarding the fact that, gee, the Eagles are really good this year. Before Wentz was hurt, they were considered an early Superbowl Champ favorite, Wentz lead the league in touchdowns and they had the best third down conversion rating in the league by a large margin. Your logic is what made teams go "Maybe there is something is Matt Cassel, he led the Patriots to an 11-5 season after all one year after the 18-1 year"

[Big Gun]

13 minutes ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said:

 

Dude, you are not listening to us. Believe me, you are whistling a different tune if you have followed his career over the past five or so years like Philly natives have.

 

You have not seen his bad games. His good games make Tyrod look small, but his bad games make Tyrod look like Russel Wilson. The last few years had seen a stretch of really bad play, and he didn't even throw the ball all preseason because he was rehabbing from an injury. Few GMs are going to throw big money at a guy whos last success was five years ago. You are basing this gut reaction based on one really, really good game.

 

Yes, he had a very good run in 2013. It was also, as I have pointed out, with an offensive system that was brand new to the NFL which coordinators had not caught up with yet, along with a Pro Bowl level Desean Jackdon, Shady having his best rushing year ever, and an offensive line that was graded out as the best in the NFL.

 

You are making a call 100% on hindsight, ignoring all the games from the past three years when Foles looked like a bottom feeder instead of an All Pro, and disregarding the fact that, gee, the Eagles are really good this year. Before Wentz was hurt, they were considered an early Superbowl Champ favorite, Wentz lead the league in touchdowns and they had the best third down conversion rating in the league by a large margin. Your logic is what made teams go "Maybe there is something is Matt Cassel, he led the Patriots to an 11-5 season after all one year after the 18-1 year"

Really, i'm guessing you missed Tyrods 56 and 65 yard games! 

 

Just stop with this ****, Foles is much better than Tyrod and it isn't even close.

[SoTier]

13 hours ago, The Frankish Reich said:

People will obviously see what they want to see. The offense was "tailored to Foles' strengths?" Curious to be tailoring your offense around your backup QB's talents.  I thought the offense was tailored to the strengths of their actual starting QB, a QB known for his mobility .... yes, they changed things up a bit when Foles took over, which is probably part of the reason his first couple games weren't very impressive.  

And I keep hearing "but Foles was benched for Case Keenum," as if Tyrod was never benched for .... the great Nathan Peterman.

 

You should have been looking in a mirror when you typed that first sentence since the announcers during the Eagles Vikings game made the very statement that after Wentz went down, the Eagles staff started tailoring the offense to fit Foles which was why he looked so much better the last two games he played than the previous ones: they had changed the offense.  Foles looked good over a single season when he was in a run-and-gun style offense for a talented team that took NFL DCs by surprise for a while.  He's looked good for a couple of games in an offense that's been altered to fit him on a team that's very talented on both sides of the ball.  In between, Foles has failed to impress anybody, and that's why the Bills weren't interested in signing him.

 

Maybe instead of whining about the Bills sticking with Taylor as their starter, maybe you should really ask why the Bills didn't have somebody better than Peterman as their backup ... like Foles, who signed with Philly for backup QB money.  The Bills could have signed Foles as Taylor's backup y'know rather than going with a fifth round rookie.

 

 

 

[The Frankish Reich]

5 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

This is why I'll be minimally here over the next couple months likely til FA gets going.

 

The conversations the next couple months are going to be pointless because everyone is going to use those hindsight goggles to say how we should have gone out to get Nick Foles or Case Keenum.

 

Neither of them were worth getting then and still aren't worth getting.

 

First of all, both of those guys are seriously products of the fantastic offensive players around them combined with excellent offensive play callers.

 

Think Foles or Keenum seriously would have been successful with Dinosaur Dennison (who has NEVER had any real success as an OC, anyway and just got fired for a reason), twin stone hand Clay (good TE... problem with the dropsies) & Jones (who sucked this year... pray he's better next year), Jordan Matthews, an injured Kelvin Benjamin and Deonte Thompson as opposed to  Shurmer (who earned a HC gig

for his work with a blah QB), Rudolph, well good GOD just look at the contrast WRs of Diggs, Thielan, Wright, Floyd, Treadwell OR Reich (miss him) as OC & Pederson as an

offe minded HC, Ertz & Celek, Agholor, Jeffrey and Torrey Smith.

 

This goes without talking about how both the Vikings and Eagles have excellent offensive lines that have provided great pass protection.

 

 

What's annoying is that I hope like hell that the Eagles win the Super Bowl while knowing people are going to suddenly idiotically start talking about Foles as a Franchise QB.

 

Dude... he's a fringe starter at best who's riding the coat tails of all the players and coaches around him.

 

Really hope the Eagles win. Doesn't change what Foles is.

 

We want better in Buffalo and this is the offseason we finally do that rather than settling for retreads like Foles, Keenum, Smith or McCown!

 

Darnold/Mayfield/Rudolph or bust!!!  

I love how all of a sudden Pederson is an offensive genius and Dennison is a total failure at life. Dennison has had no success? Well, how about:

- the #2 ranked passing offense in 2008 (Denver/Cutler)

- the #3 ranked passing offense in 2010 (Houston/Schaub)

Pederson's best ranking passing offense ever? 24th (KC/2013).

I was no Dennison fan, and I think it was absolute idiocy to bring him in to try to force the player (Tyrod) to fit the scheme rather than the other way around. But it's not like he was some kind of complete failure as an offensive coordinator, or that Pederson (who somehow managed never to get the best out of Alex Smith) was a hidden genius. Talk about hindsight ...

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 1/21/2018 at 8:00 PM, Real McCoy said:

Good question. I'm not sure what the Eagles will get but sure teams will be calling to trade for him. When Reid brought him to KC I thought FOles was going to take Ales Smiths place in all honesty. 

 

I think Reid wanted to have that possibility, and he decided Mahomes was better.  That has been Foles' fate: "You're good, kid, but we're going for better"

 

Until Wentz takes the field and is seen to have no lingering issues, I expect the Eagles to hold on to Foles.  He's only costing them $7M, no reason they can't.

If Wentz and the rookie QB they draft in the 3rd round look good and a team with a QB crisis picks up the phone and backs up the NFL Draft "Brinks truck" before or midway through the season,  they'll bite.

 

23 hours ago, Magox said:

It's easy to second guess things right now, Taylor looked to be the best option we had available to us.  Foles just came off of a bad year with the Rams, even though I attribute that to the Rams organization and coaching more than anything but none the less it was not a good year for him.  Taylor did lead us to the playoffs so I'm not going to cry about that but without doubt we could do much better than Tyrod and in retrospect Foles most likely would have been a slight upgrade.

 

Hindsight is always 20/20, but let's be sure we're talking about the same thing.  Was Taylor the best option available when he was signed by Rex? 

Or was Taylor the best option available when we renegotiated next year?

 

If we're talking about the latter, Foles McCown and Keenum were all available.  McCown is the guy we tried hard to get before he went to the Browns (fool!).  Foles may not have wanted to come here - he had a bad experience with OCs and HCs on the Rams and he may have wanted to go with the guy he knew and trusted in Pederson - or he might have been intrigued by the chance to start.  We didn't hear those names in connection with the Bills, but I'm sure we don't hear everything.

 

If you're looking for a traditional passing QB, I don't see how it can be argued that any of those 3 aren't a significant upgrade.  [When Rex took over, I think Roman was intrigued by not having a guy with Taylor's skill set, since he had gone to playoffs and SB with Smith/Kaep - and he did give us a top-10 offense]

Edited January 23, 2018 by Hapless Bills Fan

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

55 minutes ago, PeterGriffin said:

Really, i'm guessing you missed Tyrods 56 and 65 yard games! 

 

Just stop with this ****, Foles is much better than Tyrod and it isn't even close.

 

Aww cute, you can cherry pick stats.

 

Let's go a bit broader. This, Tyrod's worst year with us has him with .933 Touchdowns per game, 186.6 yards per game, completion % of 62.6% and 6.7 YPA

 

In Foles year with the Rams, he was .636 Touchdowns per game,186.5 yards per game, a completion % of 56.4 and 6.1 YPA.

 

And now, to reiterate: I AM NOT TAKING AWAY WHAT FOLES DID ON SUNDAY. It is, by every measure, fantastic. What I am saying to you is that scheme, coaching, playcalling and surrounding talent have contributed a lot to his successes, and when he hasn't had them, he has looked dreadful.

 

The moral of this is NOT "I am standing up for Tyrod" I think we all know we have to move on. It's that, unless you have someone like Aaron Rodgers and Tom Brady who seem to single handedly drag squads to the playoffs year after year Outside factors matter.

 

If you are unable to differentiate that, I simply cannot help you.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said:

 

Dude, you are not listening to us. Believe me, you are whistling a different tune if you have followed his career over the past five or so years like Philly natives have.

 

You have not seen his bad games. His good games make Tyrod look small, but his bad games make Tyrod look like Russel Wilson. The last few years had seen a stretch of really bad play, and he didn't even throw the ball all preseason because he was rehabbing from an injury. Few GMs are going to throw big money at a guy whos last success was five years ago. You are basing this gut reaction based on one really, really good game.

 

Yes, he had a very good run in 2013. It was also, as I have pointed out, with an offensive system that was brand new to the NFL which coordinators had not caught up with yet, along with a Pro Bowl level Desean Jackdon, Shady having his best rushing year ever, and an offensive line that was graded out as the best in the NFL.

 

You are making a call 100% on hindsight, ignoring all the games from the past three years when Foles looked like a bottom feeder instead of an All Pro, and disregarding the fact that, gee, the Eagles are really good this year. Before Wentz was hurt, they were considered an early Superbowl Champ favorite, Wentz lead the league in touchdowns and they had the best third down conversion rating in the league by a large margin. Your logic is what made teams go "Maybe there is something is Matt Cassel, he led the Patriots to an 11-5 season after all one year after the 18-1 year"

 

If you're a Philly guy, I think you might be a bit biased anti-Foles here.  I know what you're talking about on bad Foles games, but "make Tyrod look like DangeRuss" is a bit far.  I have been following Foles because 1) he interested me 2) followed StL Rams though they've never become "my team"

 

For one thing, speaking as a QB, Foles last success was not 5 years ago.  For example, last year in KC he was asked to complete one game and start the next, and he played well.  For another, if you look at Foles in 2014, while he didn't have the stunning TD/INT ratio and resulting high ratings, by some metrics he looked as though he was progressing as a passer - he also didn't have the stinker 38% completion, 80 yard games (Taylor has done worse, you know he has).  He threw more picks, but that has to be expected as a QB progresses to throwing for tighter windows.  He also threw for more YPG.  IMHO you're onto something with the offensive system - DCs were adjusting and Kelly failed to match.

 

Now, in 2015, Foles did look poor.  But I think people who don't follow them don't appreciate how much disarray the Rams were in.   Wrap your head around this, Keenum sucked there too.  The season-long winning QB for the Vikes and the NFC Championship winning QB both sucked there.

 

I'm not saying Foles is Mr Franchise - I think it says volumes that Pederson had to adjust a successful offense for him.  But he's a better QB than Taylor has ever shown, even taking his bad games into account.

 

4 minutes ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said:

And now, to reiterate: I AM NOT TAKING AWAY WHAT FOLES DID ON SUNDAY. It is, by every measure, fantastic. What I am saying to you is that scheme, coaching, playcalling and surrounding talent have contributed a lot to his successes, and when he hasn't had them, he has looked dreadful.

 

I agree with you completely.  Thing is, I believe that applies to almost every QB in the NFL.  Some more than others, admittedly.  Really I'm weaseling here, because I actually believe it applies to all QB in the NFL, I'm just hedging my bets. 

Edited January 23, 2018 by Hapless Bills Fan

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

If you're a Philly guy, I think you might be a bit biased anti-Foles here.  I know what you're talking about on bad Foles games, but "make Tyrod look like DangeRuss" is a bit far.  I have been following Foles because 1) he interested me 2) followed StL Rams though they've never become "my team"

 

For one thing, speaking as a QB, Foles last success was not 5 years ago.  For example, last year in KC he was asked to complete one game and start the next, and he played well.  For another, if you look at Foles in 2014, while he didn't have the stunning TD/INT ratio and resulting high ratings, by some metrics he looked as though he was progressing as a passer - he also didn't have the stinker 38% completion, 80 yard games (Taylor has done worse, you know he has).  He threw more picks, but that has to be expected as a QB progresses to throwing for tighter windows.  He also threw for more YPG.  IMHO you're onto something with the offensive system - DCs were adjusting and Kelly failed to match.

 

Now, in 2015, Foles did look poor.  But I think people who don't follow them don't appreciate how much disarray the Rams were in.   Wrap your head around this, Keenum sucked there too.  The season-long winning QB for the Vikes and the NFC Championship winning QB both sucked there.

 

Dude, believe me, there was a time when I desperately wanted Foles to come here. He is, after long observation in my opinion: a journeyman QB who is a high level backup or a low end starter. And you know, what, that's cool. If you surround them with enough talent, and have excellent OC work and keep a steady run game and excellent defense, you can go very far. In fact, he might win a Super Bowl.

 

But yeah, in STL with a poor OC and not a lot of weapons he didn't do well. By every measure, Tyrod did better this year with a poor OC and not a lot of weapons. Scheme. Coaching. Playcalling. The other 10 players on the field. All of these matter. Dropping Foles in here might have won a game or two more (maybe) but we have seen the drop off when he doesn't have elite talent around him.

[26CornerBlitz]

2 minutes ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said:

 

Dude, believe me, there was a time when I desperately wanted Foles to come here. He is, after long observation in my opinion: a journeyman QB who is a high level backup or a low end starter. And you know, what, that's cool. If you surround them with enough talent, and have excellent OC work and keep a steady run game and excellent defense, you can go very far. In fact, he might win a Super Bowl.

 

But yeah, in STL with a poor OC and not a lot of weapons he didn't do well. By every measure, Tyrod did better this year with a poor OC and not a lot of weapons. Scheme. Coaching. Playcalling. The other 10 players on the field. All of these matter. Dropping Foles in here might have won a game or two more (maybe) but we have seen the drop off when he doesn't have elite talent around him.

 

Not only that, but he played like crap in a couple of games this season with the Eagles.  It was downright ugly! 

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

1 minute ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Not only that, but he played like crap in a couple of games this season with the Eagles.  It was downright ugly! 

Agreed. And it goes to how much coaching and play calling is a factor. It looks like Pederson purposefully ran a vanilla offense with Foles in the first few weeks back, and saved integrating the RPO into the playoffs so opponents would have less tape on it. Same players, adjusted playcalling. It made a hell of a difference.

[26CornerBlitz]

26 minutes ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said:

Agreed. And it goes to how much coaching and play calling is a factor. It looks like Pederson purposefully ran a vanilla offense with Foles in the first few weeks back, and saved integrating the RPO into the playoffs so opponents would have less tape on it. Same players, adjusted playcalling. It made a hell of a difference.

 

They were actually doing quite a bit of RPO all season long.  Some adjustments were made, but Foles simply was not playing well after his initial start against the NYG.  In the MNF game against the Raiders on Christmas night he was putrid and did not look better in the season finale.  He was decent against ATL in the divisional round and outstanding in the NFC Championship game against the Vikings as we saw. 

Edited January 23, 2018 by 26CornerBlitz

[xRUSHx]

Why would they try for a different QB we have a QB hand picked by Rex himself. Everyone knows Rex is a QB guru

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 1/21/2018 at 7:57 PM, BuffaloRebound said:

If Foles plays like this against Pats, would you trade one of our 1st rounders for him?

 

Oooh. 

 

Better I shouldn't be tempted, I'll say that.

 

I would be surprised if he plays like this against the Pats, let me just say that.  George Edwards and Mike Zimmer got gamed in the chess match by Reich and Pederson.

I don't think that happens to Matt Patricia, especially now that Pederson tipped his hand in the media and the Pats have the NFC Champ game film.

Edited January 23, 2018 by Hapless Bills Fan

[Big Gun]

1 hour ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said:

 

Aww cute, you can cherry pick stats.

 

Let's go a bit broader. This, Tyrod's worst year with us has him with .933 Touchdowns per game, 186.6 yards per game, completion % of 62.6% and 6.7 YPA

 

In Foles year with the Rams, he was .636 Touchdowns per game,186.5 yards per game, a completion % of 56.4 and 6.1 YPA.

 

And now, to reiterate: I AM NOT TAKING AWAY WHAT FOLES DID ON SUNDAY. It is, by every measure, fantastic. What I am saying to you is that scheme, coaching, playcalling and surrounding talent have contributed a lot to his successes, and when he hasn't had them, he has looked dreadful.

 

The moral of this is NOT "I am standing up for Tyrod" I think we all know we have to move on. It's that, unless you have someone like Aaron Rodgers and Tom Brady who seem to single handedly drag squads to the playoffs year after year Outside factors matter.

 

If you are unable to differentiate that, I simply cannot help you.

Who's cherry picking? Go away!

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

Just now, PeterGriffin said:

Who's cherry picking? Go away!

You mean, that instead of picking 2 games randomly I used both of their worst seasons as a starter as comparison and averaged out for a per game basis so you couldn't use that as a bias?

 

You just don't like that I have comprehensive data to back up my point. There is a contingent of fans here who hate Tyrod so much that they blindly grasp at anyone who they think might be an improvement. It's time to prepare a replacement, but the grasping at straws I have seen is ludicrous.

[billsredneck1]

  i can't believe the stupidity in this thread. foles is better than any qb we've had since bledsoe if not kelly.....but some people just have to cling to the horrible season with the rams....and claim it's a system...he has a good team....bla,bla,bla.

 

 well if he wins the sb, how many nfl records or rankings will he have?....and he came off the bench a few games ago? some people here are either extremely jealous or brain dead.

[reddogblitz]

4 hours ago, PeterGriffin said:

Really, i'm guessing you missed Tyrods 56 and 65 yard games! 

 

Russell Wilson passed for 93 yards on Christmas Eve in Dallas.

[Big Gun]

2 hours ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said:

You mean, that instead of picking 2 games randomly I used both of their worst seasons as a starter as comparison and averaged out for a per game basis so you couldn't use that as a bias?

 

You just don't like that I have comprehensive data to back up my point. There is a contingent of fans here who hate Tyrod so much that they blindly grasp at anyone who they think might be an improvement. It's time to prepare a replacement, but the grasping at straws I have seen is ludicrous.

Why did you pick their worst seasons? 

 

Why didn't you pick their best seasons?

 

Cherry picking at it's finest. Carry on!

 

54 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

 

Russell Wilson passed for 93 yards on Christmas Eve in Dallas.

Golf clap

[Yav]

I think that's more the system in Philly. Foles wasn't great at Arizona, good but not great and he wasn't anything special when he was traded to the Rams. 

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

1 minute ago, PeterGriffin said:

Why did you pick their worst seasons? 

 

Why didn't you pick their best seasons?

 

Cherry picking at it's finest. Carry on

 

...Because my entire premise is that while Foles has flown higher, he has also crashed lower. This is the direct link to that. It's his inconsistency which has prevented him from becoming a franchise QB.

 

A lot of us here are performing one hell of a double standard: giving him praise on the games and stretches where he was amazing, and disregard the stretches when he wasn't on bad coordinators and a lack of personnel. It's the argument the biggest Tyrod fans (including myself) have leaned on, and the answer is that neither is a franchise QB, so let's quit acting like we have one as a millstone around our neck while the other is a sparkly unicorn who we missed.

[reddogblitz]

1 hour ago, PeterGriffin said:

 

Golf clap

 

93 yards.

 

You don't think we should judge a QBs worth based on his lowest passing yards game?

[Buffalo Barbarian]

 

Will he be available after the super bowl?

 

 

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

17 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

 

93 yards.

 

You don't think we should judge a QBs worth based on his lowest passing yards game?

 

He will act when utter confusion when he finds out that even with Tyrod's worst games this year, he was still better than Nick Foles in St. Louis

[Domdab99]

If the Bills were to pay a premium for Nick Foles because of the last couple of games, that would be the most Billsy thing of all. Remember Rob Johnson? 

[Heitz]

3 minutes ago, Domdab99 said:

If the Bills were to pay a premium for Nick Foles because of the last couple of games, that would be the most Billsy thing of all. Remember Rob Johnson? 

Pretty sure that Foels has played more games than the ONE good game RJ had before the Bills bet the farm on him