Reggie Ragland's play for the chiefs

[Coach Tuesday]

19 minutes ago, Dr. K said:

Thank god somebody understands what Whaley was doing. Overall, he was an excellent talent evaluator, and got the players to fit the schemes the coaches insisted on running. The reflexive Whaley hate here is moronic. 

 

So Whaley drafted Lawson to fit Rex's scheme?  He should be re-hired and then re-fired for that alone.

[BillsFan130]

Out of curiosity, why did we exactly get rid of Ragland again? Did he not fit the 4-3 scheme or something? I know he was drafted as a 3-4 linebacker for Rex

[26CornerBlitz]

1 hour ago, billsfan11 said:

Out of curiosity, why did we exactly get rid of Ragland again? Did he not fit the 4-3 scheme or something? I know he was drafted as a 3-4 linebacker for Rex

 

2019 4th round pick.  Supposedly not a fit in the 4-3.   I'd rather have Ragland given the lack of depth at LB. 

Edited November 28, 2017 by 26CornerBlitz

[Kelly the Dog]

2 hours ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

Tomlin ran a Tampa 2 in Minnesota when he was hired as the steelers HC and lebeau ran a zone blitz 34 as his DC.  It can't never happen if it already has happened.

Doesn't fit. Tomlin had a defensive background but he is not a "defensive" head coach. He's a manager/leader/CEO head coach like Marv was. Rex would always run "a Rex Ryan defense." Sean McVay would be an offensive head coach. He takes over the offense and uses his system and leaves the defense to Wade. Marv was an overseer. There are both kinds of head coaches. Tomlin is an overseer. He basically let LeBeau run the defense. 

[GunnerBill]

Ragland is graded as PFF's 14th best LB right now.  

[BillsFan130]

8 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

2019 4th round pick.  Supposedly not a fit in the 4-3.   I'd rather have Ragland given the lack of depth at LB. 

Ya that's what I was thinking. I'm sure the Bills could have used him this year, at least as a depth LB

[SaviorPeterman]

2 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

One thing that worries me about this front office is the ultimate always sell their assets at their lowest possible value.

 

i didn't love Ragland but they literally gave him no time to prove himself. 

 

It's not that they didn't give him time, it's that they didn't believe he was going to work in this defense since he was a pure 3-4 LB at Alabama and why Rex drafted him for his defense. This is what happens when coaches and schemes are changed every 2-3 years.

 

But then again pretty sure McD claimed the reason they did trade him was because Gerald Hodges outplayed him, who was then released right after the final cut downs.

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[ganesh]

On 11/28/2017 at 10:38 PM, billsfan11 said:

Ya that's what I was thinking. I'm sure the Bills could have used him this year, at least as a depth LB

But the guy couldn't break into the lineup.  I don't think any coach will get their ego ahead of themselves (Unless you are Rex Ryan) and get rid of a player if he is actually playing well.  The Trade is as much due to Ragland's inability to absorb the new play book and adapt to the new scheme.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, ganesh said:

But the guy couldn't break into the lineup.  I don't think any coach will get their ego ahead of themselves (Unless you are Rex Ryan) and get rid of a player if he is actually playing well.  The Trade is as much due to Ragland's inability to absorb the new play book and adapt to the new scheme.

 

Wait, I'm confused

 

Ragland somehow could not absorb our playbook and scheme but when shipped off to KC at the end of training camp, he soaked it up like a sponge?

 

Something's wrong with that picture.

[Boatdrinks]

1 hour ago, ganesh said:

But the guy couldn't break into the lineup.  I don't think any coach will get their ego ahead of themselves (Unless you are Rex Ryan) and get rid of a player if he is actually playing well.  The Trade is as much due to Ragland's inability to absorb the new play book and adapt to the new scheme.

That's not what happened. He was coming back slowly from a major injury. He was a Whaley guy that was dumped for next to nothing in the Beane purge. Maybe not a scheme fit, but it had nothing to do with RR not being able to absorb a defensive playbook . 

[Ol Dirty B]

4 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Wait, I'm confused

 

Ragland somehow could not absorb our playbook and scheme but when shipped off to KC at the end of training camp, he soaked it up like a sponge?

 

Something's wrong with that picture.

 

yada yada yada... throw in the word process somewhere... white bald guy is humble even though he comes across as an arrogant ass. 

 

I just did McDermott's presser for you. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

That's not what happened. He was coming back slowly from a major injury. He was a Whaley guy that was dumped for next to nothing in the Beane purge. Maybe not a scheme fit, but it had nothing to do with RR not being able to absorb a defensive playbook . 

 

But but but no, McBeane weren't purging the previous GM's players!  They were thinking only of winning now and winning in the future!

 

Sar Chasm aside, the fact was we scarcely saw Ragland, he plummeted down McDermott's depth chart like a sea lion seeking a herring in the zoo pond.

 

Edited December 11, 2017 by Hapless Bills Fan

[ganesh]

44 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

But but but no, McBeane weren't purging the previous GM's players!  They were thinking only of winning now and winning in the future!

 

Sar Chasm aside, the fact was we scarcely saw Ragland, he plummeted down McDermott's depth chart like a sea lion seeking a herring in the zoo pond.

 

May be he couldn't handle the playbook in TC.  It would be surprising for a coach to let go of a good player even though he was able to absorb the playbook and play well in the Pre-Season,

[EasternOHBillsFan]

57 minutes ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

yada yada yada... throw in the word process somewhere... white bald guy is humble even though he comes across as an arrogant ass. 

 

I just did McDermott's presser for you. 

 

What are you, like 15 years old? We're on the verge of winning 9 games for a team that was supposed to be crappy and you're talking #@!# about MCDERMOTT?

 

GTFOH.

[Ol Dirty B]

3 minutes ago, EasternOHBillsFan said:

 

What are you, like 15 years old? We're on the verge of winning 9 games for a team that was supposed to be crappy and you're talking #@!# about MCDERMOTT?

 

GTFOH.

 

Oh I'm sorry, I missed the part where I'm just supposed to bow down and love everything the guy has done.

 

I'm not a fan of his. What does that matter to you? We also haven't won 9 games yet. You don't like it put me on ignore, I can do with out ever hearing from you again. 

 

Guy calls someone else 15 for disagreeing with him, then ends post with GTFOH. I can't be the only on this is lost on, right?

Edited December 11, 2017 by Ol Dirty B

[Coach Tuesday]

This is incredibly frustrating to see.

[Dr.Sack]

My big thing is watching competent offense guru Sean McVay at just 31 years old turn a concerning rookie QB into a decent mid tiered starter by surrounding him with Bills WRs Woods, Watkins, & an imaginative 21st century scheme. 

[ganesh]

1 hour ago, Dr.Sack said:

My big thing is watching competent offense guru Sean McVay at just 31 years old turn a concerning rookie QB into a decent mid tiered starter by surrounding him with Bills WRs Woods, Watkins, & an imaginative 21st century scheme. 

And having one of the best defense in the league helps!!!!

[thenorthremembers]

He had three tackles yesterday...Watkins isnt going to break 1k or 60 receptions.  It will be ok.

[87168]

33 minutes ago, ganesh said:

And having one of the best defense in the league helps!!!!

something the Bills also had to too long ago at one point...

[Chris Brown]

What I'm hearing from people around the building is that Coach McDermott didn't see Ragland as a fit in his defensive scheme. We've seen it before from this regime, they are not afraid to move on from players if they don't fit what they're trying to do. 

 

Chris Brown

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

The tears of McBeane haters.... SO refreshing. And if the Bills make the playoffs? How delicious will they be then?

 

I hope it happens, I'll have SO much fun.

 

[KW95 - JA17]

4 hours ago, EasternOHBillsFan said:

 

What are you, like 15 years old? We're on the verge of winning 9 games for a team that was supposed to be crappy and you're talking #@!# about MCDERMOTT?

 

GTFOH.

hahah!!  Verge of winning 9 games.  Hello?  3 division games left?  Anything can happen.  Did you notice our 1 and 2 QBs are injured?  Did you notice our run defence?  

 

I hope we win 10 games, but your attitude towards others is terrible.

[Doc]

1 hour ago, thenorthremembers said:

He had three tackles yesterday...Watkins isnt going to break 1k or 60 receptions.  It will be ok.

 

Yeah but one was an amazing one where he stopped a washed-up Lynch, who ran right into him. 

 

Anyway, Ragland is a 3-4 LB.  Which is (sort of) what they're playing in KC (it's actually a 2-4-5 defense). 

[GG]

Are there any highlights of Ragland covering a TE or RB on a passing play?

 

There was never any question of his ability to hit a runner who's lined up for a straight hit.

Edited December 11, 2017 by GG

[Hapless Bills Fan]

13 hours ago, Chris Brown said:

What I'm hearing from people around the building is that Coach McDermott didn't see Ragland as a fit in his defensive scheme. We've seen it before from this regime, they are not afraid to move on from players if they don't fit what they're trying to do. 

 

Chris Brown

 

So how do you balance that against the famed Wade Phillips statement on "scheme fit":
"I don't understand the people that say, 'Hey, this is our scheme and that guy can't play in it,' a guy that can play, and is a good player, but, 'He can't play in our scheme.' To me, there's something wrong with your scheme," Phillips said. "You adapt the scheme to what the players can do, not what you can think of."

It seems to me that the team trying to acquire and retain only talent that fits in a specific scheme, will always be at a competitive disadvantage to a team and coaches who are able to adapt a scheme to the talent they have.

[T-Bomb]

17 hours ago, Ol Dirty B said:

Oh I'm sorry, I missed the part where I'm just supposed to bow down and love everything the guy has done.

 

You obviously drank the wrong beverage.

[BuffaloBillsMagic1]

Guy was  coming off major knee surgery.  Should have waited until he was 100% fit.  Did not like them trading him as at Alabama he was great.

 

[Mr. WEO]

17 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

This is incredibly frustrating to see.

 

Big deal. the Chiefs D blows.  They will start their golf season on New Year's Day..

[Bing Bong]

Why is it a surprise that Whaley was competent at drafting front 7 if nothing else? For everyone clamoring to trade Lawson.. is mcbean's 5th better than Whaley's 1st? If he really believes that , then it's just arrogance

[Real McClappy]

33 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

So how do you balance that against the famed Wade Phillips statement on "scheme fit":
"I don't understand the people that say, 'Hey, this is our scheme and that guy can't play in it,' a guy that can play, and is a good player, but, 'He can't play in our scheme.' To me, there's something wrong with your scheme," Phillips said. "You adapt the scheme to what the players can do, not what you can think of."

It seems to me that the team trying to acquire and retain only talent that fits in a specific scheme, will always be at a competitive disadvantage to a team and coaches who are able to adapt a scheme to the talent they have.

Great post bud   Too bad Rex and McD could not see this as well. Whatever happened to coaches that coach players and play up to players strengths? Everyone knew Ragland on draft day was a legit LB'er and a steal in the 2nd rd. But, he gets injured and comes back slow and every fickle Bills fan throws him under the bus. We flat out sold low and KC got a steal. This is reality and a bad move by the FO before and after hindsight kicked in.

 

And we still need a LB'er or two to top it off.

Edited December 12, 2017 by Real McCoy

[Hapless Bills Fan]

12 hours ago, Real McCoy said:

Great post bud   Too bad Rex and McD could not see this as well. Whatever happened to coaches that coach players and play up to players strengths? Everyone knew Ragland on draft day was a legit LB'er and a steal in the 2nd rd. But, he gets injured and comes back slow and every fickle Bills fan throws him under the bus. We flat out sold low and KC got a steal. This is reality and a bad move by the FO before and after hindsight kicked in.

 

And we still need a LB'er or two to top it off.

 

I'm feeling slack this am so I'm not going to do it, but I think one could make a pretty good team from players McDermott and Beane have let walk

[FearLess Price]

On 12/11/2017 at 1:38 AM, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Wait, I'm confused

 

Ragland somehow could not absorb our playbook and scheme but when shipped off to KC at the end of training camp, he soaked it up like a sponge?

 

Something's wrong with that picture.

 

5 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I'm feeling slack this am so I'm not going to do it, but I think one could make a pretty good team from players McDermott and Beane have let walk

 

Its amazing how players we let go on off and def go on to have much better seasons on other teams. You could argue they are on teams with better qbs in terms of wrs and teams with better coaching in terms of dt, lb, and cb. I really dont like having coaches that can't adjust schmes to fit rosters. 

 

Like they said tho.. "trust the process"

[GG]

2 minutes ago, FearLess Price said:

 

 

Its amazing how players we let go on off and def go on to have much better seasons on other teams. You could argue they are on teams with better qbs in terms of wrs and teams with better coaching in terms of dt, lb, and cb. I really dont like having coaches that can't adjust schmes to fit rosters. 

 

Like they said tho.. "trust the process"

 

And yet the Bills have a better record at this point of the season than in 2015 & 2016, even without all the "stars" they let go

[oldmanfan]

He had one solo tackle and two assists against the Raiders according to the box score.

 

He showed nothing in training camp and they traded him.  Should the coaching staff now just ignore what they see in camp?

[Da webster guy]

On 11/22/2017 at 12:50 PM, Bangarang said:

If you don’t like Preston Brown in this scheme then you wouldn’t have liked Ragland.

Well said.   The Ragman isn't a coverage or sideline to sideline guy.  He would be great as a specialist on short yardage stuff though, he can shed blockers well and plays big in the trenches.   He was in the perfect spot at Bama, where he won SEC defensive player of the year behind a great line with slower running backs than what we have in the NFL.

[Royale with Cheese]

1 minute ago, oldmanfan said:

He had one solo tackle and two assists against the Raiders according to the box score.

 

He showed nothing in training camp and they traded him.  Should the coaching staff now just ignore what they see in camp?

 

I've only seen him play against us and he looked good.  Outside of that, I have no idea how he's play.

Regardless, if we're looking for speed at the MLB position, it's not Ragland.   I was wrong thinking he could be at least solid as a 4-3 MLB.  I liked him and still think he will be at least solid but only in a 3-4 IMO.

[FearLess Price]

26 minutes ago, GG said:

 

And yet the Bills have a better record at this point of the season than in 2015 & 2016, even without all the "stars" they let go

 

Yeah isnt that some sht?

 

The results of this team playing beyond their talent on defense doesnt mean we didnt lose talent with sll those moves. Just look at how those players are doing for their respective teams. 

[GG]

7 minutes ago, FearLess Price said:

 

Yeah isnt that some sht?

 

The results of this team playing beyond their talent on defense doesnt mean we didnt lose talent with sll those moves. Just look at how those players are doing for their respective teams. 

 

Talent was lost, but the team's record also indicates that the talent was over rated at least and overpaid at most.