Jerry Hughes

[BADOLBILZ]

Dear Buffalo Bills owners, GMs, coaches and players,

 

 

Please try to spread these events out over a longer period of time. The fans who insist they're smarter than all of you need to pace themselves, and they're not done whining about the Sammy and Darby trade yet.

 

 

Sincerely,

Fans who don't piss themselves over every little thing that happens with this team.

 

 

Need I remind you that you were a complete a*hole fan-basher and Donahoe defender during the initial tear-down that initiated the drought?

 

You were wrong then........you are wrong now.

 

Posting stupidity is your thing here..........HOF level failure of a poster.

 

I guess you'll never learn not to trust the thinks that come into yer head.

 

Keep blaming Tim Graham for the losing though.

[C.Biscuit97]

Given all of those picks, failure is by definition success. So Beane is really in a no-lose situation, right?

Normally, when you get a ton of draft picks, you buy yourself time. It's a smart move for a new GM.

 

However if Watkins and Darby have good years & we struggle, the pressure will be amped up.

[KollegeStudnet]

I suspect the coaching staff is trying to get a handle on Hughes situation with with bad PF penalties before the actual games start. Something Rex was unable to accomplish. I would think most of us ageee that should be a priority, no?

 

Not sure what it has to do with Jauron or Chris Kelsay. I don't really remember Jauron getting into it with players.

I could see that. Hughes and his PF penalties have accumulated over the years. Could see them trying to correct it, Jerry no likely.

 

I remember Jauron and Perry talking to someone during camp who was frustrated, but that was almost a decade ago. Can't remember.

[BADOLBILZ]

Given all of those picks, failure is by definition success. So Beane is really in a no-lose situation, right?

 

 

Who is Brandon Beane?

 

This guy is operating off an outdated model IMO.

 

A second round pick is hardly any ammo at all when moving up for a QB that is regarded as certain franchise(not maybes like Goff or Wentz).

 

Watkins was much more valuable as an ENTICEMENT to any potential young QB or free agent QB.

 

And if the trade-up doesn't work........HOPEFULLY(but far from realistically) you get 6 quality young players that will ALL be coming up for re-new of contracts in a two year period? Ridiculous.

 

Proper roster building for consistent winning results is as much about spacing contracts and talent as anything.

 

People who think Beane is using a "Patriots" model are very, very confused.

[oldmanfan]

Just curious, what is the Bills scheme you talk about and how did you find out about it?

 

For us or the opponent?

The 4-3 defense. Hughes is a great pass rusher in that vs the 3-4.

[SWATeam]

 

 

Who is Brandon Beane?

 

This guy is operating off an outdated model IMO.

 

A second round pick is hardly any ammo at all when moving up for a QB that is regarded as certain franchise(not maybes like Goff or Wentz).

 

Watkins was much more valuable as an ENTICEMENT to any potential young QB or free agent QB.

 

And if the trade-up doesn't work........HOPEFULLY(but far from realistically) you get 6 quality young players that will ALL be coming up for re-new of contracts in a two year period? Ridiculous.

 

Proper roster building for consistent winning results is as much about spacing contracts and talent as anything.

 

People who think Beane is using a "Patriots" model are very, very confused.

What is ENTICING Sammy to sign an extension?

[Magox]

 

 

 

Posting stupidity is your thing here..........HOF level failure of a poster.

 

 

 

No, I'm pretty sure it is your thing.

[Coach Tuesday]

What is ENTICING Sammy to sign an extension?

 

Leverage of a 5th year option (whoops) and two consecutive franchise tags (oops).

[BADOLBILZ]

What is ENTICING Sammy to sign an extension?

 

HE HAS NO CHOICE IN THE MATTER.

 

This isn't a QB in a market edging toward $30M per year........he's a WR......he has to take his money when he can get it and the Bills had exclusive negotiating rights because:

 

They have the franchise tag to use........and nobody else EVEN CLOSE to that kind of talent to use it on for the next few years.

 

By virtue of trading away picks and poor draft picks like EJ and Ragnuts there is a dearth of top young talent coming up for renewal soon and a TON of vets coming off the books in the next two offseasons.

 

 

 

Blows my mind how stupid fans can get wrt evaluating the VALUE of talent.

 

I'm not terribly bothered by losing Darby.......but keep in mind he was ONLY one of the 5 or so best second round picks the Bills have made in the last THIRTY YEARS.

 

Grasp that when you fall in love with draft picks, Bills fans.

 

You have approximately a 1 in 6 chance of having the pick that you traded Watkins for turning into a player as good as Darby.

[KDIGGZ]

if you can sack the QB in this league you can get away with pretty much anything. Jerry has been a headcase for 4 different coaches now

[Big Turk]

I suspect the coaching staff is trying to get a handle on Hughes situation with with bad PF penalties before the actual games start. Something Rex was unable to accomplish. I would think most of us ageee that should be a priority, no?

 

Not sure what it has to do with Jauron or Chris Kelsay. I don't really remember Jauron getting into it with players.

You mean like the one he got from patting his own teammate on his helmet?

[thebandit27]

 

HE HAS NO CHOICE IN THE MATTER.

 

This isn't a QB in a market edging toward $30M per year........he's a WR......he has to take his money when he can get it and the Bills had exclusive negotiating rights because:

 

They have the franchise tag to use........and nobody else EVEN CLOSE to that kind of talent to use it on for the next few years.

 

By virtue of trading away picks and poor draft picks like EJ and Ragnuts there is a dearth of top young talent coming up for renewal soon and a TON of vets coming off the books in the next two offseasons.

 

 

 

Blows my mind how stupid fans can get wrt evaluating the VALUE of talent.

 

I'm not terribly bothered by losing Darby.......but keep in mind he was ONLY one of the 5 or so best second round picks the Bills have made in the last THIRTY YEARS.

 

Grasp that when you fall in love with draft picks, Bills fans.

 

You have approximately a 1 in 6 chance of having the pick that you traded Watkins for turning into a player as good as Darby.

 

You hit on my issue with the trades at the very end: why give up players that have proven that they can do the job in the NFL for picks that are total mysteries at this point?

[Last Guy on the Bench]

 

HE HAS NO CHOICE IN THE MATTER.

 

This isn't a QB in a market edging toward $30M per year........he's a WR......he has to take his money when he can get it and the Bills had exclusive negotiating rights because:

 

They have the franchise tag to use........and nobody else EVEN CLOSE to that kind of talent to use it on for the next few years.

 

By virtue of trading away picks and poor draft picks like EJ and Ragnuts there is a dearth of top young talent coming up for renewal soon and a TON of vets coming off the books in the next two offseasons.

 

 

 

Blows my mind how stupid fans can get wrt evaluating the VALUE of talent.

 

I'm not terribly bothered by losing Darby.......but keep in mind he was ONLY one of the 5 or so best second round picks the Bills have made in the last THIRTY YEARS.

 

Grasp that when you fall in love with draft picks, Bills fans.

 

You have approximately a 1 in 6 chance of having the pick that you traded Watkins for turning into a player as good as Darby.

This could not be more spot on, in my opinion.

 

I cannot understand how cavalier many people are about truly gifted players. Or maybe it's just that they don't see him as such. For me, Watkins jumps out every time he is on the field. He is in a class above 95% of the players in the NFL in terms of his talent. And while he hasn't fully actualized that talent yet, even young Sammy learning his way into the NFL is a lot better than most other options. When you have a guy like that, you keep him, unless it will cripple the team financially, which it certainly would not in this case - even at the franchise tag amount.

 

I love the draft as much as the next guy, but how people talk themselves into the idea that all of these draft picks will magically turn into good players, when even the best-drafting teams strike out more often than not, is beyond me. You want draft picks so you can find guys like Sammy! But if you just get rid of them once you get them, what's the point?

[xRUSHx]

Trade them both

[SWATeam]

 

HE HAS NO CHOICE IN THE MATTER.

 

This isn't a QB in a market edging toward $30M per year........he's a WR......he has to take his money when he can get it and the Bills had exclusive negotiating rights because:

 

They have the franchise tag to use........and nobody else EVEN CLOSE to that kind of talent to use it on for the next few years.

 

By virtue of trading away picks and poor draft picks like EJ and Ragnuts there is a dearth of top young talent coming up for renewal soon and a TON of vets coming off the books in the next two offseasons.

 

 

 

Blows my mind how stupid fans can get wrt evaluating the VALUE of talent.

 

I'm not terribly bothered by losing Darby.......but keep in mind he was ONLY one of the 5 or so best second round picks the Bills have made in the last THIRTY YEARS.

 

Grasp that when you fall in love with draft picks, Bills fans.

 

You have approximately a 1 in 6 chance of having the pick that you traded Watkins for turning into a player as good as Darby.

I find it truly amazing that YOU call out posters as "fan bashers."

[IDBillzFan]

 

 

Need I remind you that you were a complete a*hole fan-basher and Donahoe defender during the initial tear-down that initiated the drought?

 

You were wrong then........you are wrong now.

 

Posting stupidity is your thing here..........HOF level failure of a poster.

 

I guess you'll never learn not to trust the thinks that come into yer head.

 

Keep blaming Tim Graham for the losing though.

 

Dear Bills owners, GMs, coaches and players,

 

 

Exhibit A. I rest my case about people who piss themselves over the dumbest things.

 

 

Sincerely,

Fans who don't lie while shoving their noses up the ass of Tim Graham.

[YoloinOhio]

You mean like the one he got from patting his own teammate on his helmet?

not sure your point using this example as opposed to all the others over the years - but if he wants to stop being the target of the refs for stuff like this he needs to stop the real penalties in the first place. The refs were wrong to call that one, but on one of the plays before that he had shoved Brady late and it wasn't called. I'm pretty sure they were made aware that they missed that and were going to get him regardless. Edited August 14, 2017 by YoloinOhio

[BADOLBILZ]

I find it truly amazing that YOU call out posters as "fan bashers."

 

I'm not bashing Bills fans......the inability to understand the value of talent is not at all exclusive to Bills fans....it's universal.

 

And even if you/they loved this stupid Watkins trade.........that's not the fans fault.

 

They have two choices.......take it and like it.

 

The nature of fandom is that a certain segment will buy ANYTHING the organization tells them.

 

And the more upset they are with past results.......very often the MORE they like seeing the established heads of high profile players like Jason Peters or Marshawn Lynch or Sammy roll.....regardless of the harm done.

 

The impetus is ENTIRELY on the organization to be successful..........fans and media have virtually zero impact on that.

[IDBillzFan]

Note to self: This isn't fan bashing.

 

Blows my mind how stupid fans can get...

[dave mcbride]

 

HE HAS NO CHOICE IN THE MATTER.

 

This isn't a QB in a market edging toward $30M per year........he's a WR......he has to take his money when he can get it and the Bills had exclusive negotiating rights because:

 

They have the franchise tag to use........and nobody else EVEN CLOSE to that kind of talent to use it on for the next few years.

 

By virtue of trading away picks and poor draft picks like EJ and Ragnuts there is a dearth of top young talent coming up for renewal soon and a TON of vets coming off the books in the next two offseasons.

 

 

 

Blows my mind how stupid fans can get wrt evaluating the VALUE of talent.

 

I'm not terribly bothered by losing Darby.......but keep in mind he was ONLY one of the 5 or so best second round picks the Bills have made in the last THIRTY YEARS.

 

Grasp that when you fall in love with draft picks, Bills fans.

 

You have approximately a 1 in 6 chance of having the pick that you traded Watkins for turning into a player as good as Darby.

Excellent post. What I'm about to say isn't really all that germane, but if they somehow get lucky and get to 5-3 by midseason, there is no getting around the fact that you need talent to maintain the momentum. And unlike in MLB, they won't be able to trade prospects (in the form of draft picks) for the talent that'll get them to the 10-win finish line. Also, the final 8 games - five of which are at home - add up to a pretty easy schedule, relatively speaking (Indy, NE, NO, TB, Oakland, KC, the Jets, and SD). Instead, they'll be trotting out Gaines and a truly subpar WR corps, and they're likely to perform as they always perform after a halfway decent start -- terribly.. But I guess there's always next year!

Edited August 14, 2017 by dave mcbride

[GG]

Excellent post. What I'm about to say isn't really all that germane, but if they somehow get lucky and get to 5-3 by midseason, there is no getting around the fact that you need talent to maintain the momentum. And unlike in MLB, they won't be able to trade prospects (in the form of draft picks) for the talent that'll get them to the 10-win finish line. Also, the final 8 games - five of which are at home - add up to a pretty easy schedule, relatively speaking (Indy, NE, NO, TB, Oakland, KC, the Jets, and SD). Instead, they'll be trotting out Gaines and a truly subpar WR corps, and they're likely to perform as they always perform after a halfway decent start -- terribly.. But I guess there's always next year!

 

Why even bother playing then?

[oldmanfan]

Excellent post. What I'm about to say isn't really all that germane, but if they somehow get lucky and get to 5-3 by midseason, there is no getting around the fact that you need talent to maintain the momentum. And unlike in MLB, they won't be able to trade prospects (in the form of draft picks) for the talent that'll get them to the 10-win finish line. Also, the final 8 games - five of which are at home - add up to a pretty easy schedule, relatively speaking (Indy, NE, NO, TB, Oakland, KC, the Jets, and SD). Instead, they'll be trotting out Gaines and a truly subpar WR corps, and they're likely to perform as they always perform after a halfway decent start -- terribly.. But I guess there's always next year!

This makes absolutely no sense to me. If they get to 5-3 with the roster as set, with Gaines and the WRs, why assume they would then fall apart in the latter half of the season?

[dave mcbride]

 

Why even bother playing then?

Not sure of your point. My point is that prior to the trades, the Bills talent level wasn't that bad, and with a little luck they had a chance to replace a team like Miami in the WC sweepstakes. Trading away top talent hurts their chances to do this. Is this even arguable?

[SWATeam]

 

I'm not bashing Bills fans......the inability to understand the value of talent is not at all exclusive to Bills fans....it's universal.

 

And even if you/they loved this stupid Watkins trade.........that's not the fans fault.

 

They have two choices.......take it and like it.

 

The nature of fandom is that a certain segment will buy ANYTHING the organization tells them.

 

And the more upset they are with past results.......very often the MORE they like seeing the established heads of high profile players like Jason Peters or Marshawn Lynch or Sammy roll.....regardless of the harm done.

 

The impetus is ENTIRELY on the organization to be successful..........fans and media have virtually zero impact on that.

That is certainly ONE type of fan.

 

There seems to be two extremes. OMG this is a great trade! Or, this is the worst trade ever! Same thing with draft grades. Great/terrible picks and winners and losers before a down has been played.

 

At this point no one knows if this is a good or bad trade. All they have is their opinion, and that is fine to present, but no one can claim certainty in being correct.

 

The reasonable fan lets it play out, and doesn't pile previous regimes mistakes on the current staff.

[dave mcbride]

This makes absolutely no sense to me. If they get to 5-3 with the roster as set, with Gaines and the WRs, why assume they would then fall apart in the latter half of the season?

To paraphrase Mike Lombardi, the truly talented teams bring it later in the season. The first part of the season is a testing ground. You can be like Minny last year and do it through smoke and mirrors for half a season, but the tendencies become rote and opponents figure it out. Teams win through talent. To wit: Green Bay and Pitt last season, or the Giants in 2007 and 2011. Or conversely, Buffalo in 2011 and 2007.

 

"Now, the month of September is used to glean the strengths and weakness a team might possess. Yes, the games count toward the overall win-loss record, but what matters more is being able to accurately assess a team and then making the minor adjustments needed to win in late November and December. Think of September as the first 100 miles in the Indy 500, when the race teams make the minor adjustments to the car at the first pit stop. Hall of Fame coach Bill Walsh always wanted his assistants to play talented rookies in September knowing full well that the mistakes they made in September would help refine their habits by November and December, when mistake-free football is essential."

 

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2017/8/10/16122796/how-to-beat-patriots-bill-belichick

Edited August 14, 2017 by dave mcbride

[Coach Tuesday]

 

Why even bother playing then?

 

I'm not sure many of the fans here even care about the "playing" part. Being a Bills fan has become all about the draft - it's just a twisted version fantasy football.

[Royale with Cheese]

Note to self: This isn't fan bashing.

 

 

Oh man great find!

[SWATeam]

That's all we can do as fans. Let it play out. Doesn't mean you can't form an opinion before it plays out.

 

Based on their history of stupid and very similar trades in Lynch/Peters, I'd say they !@#$ed up. Again.

Who's history though? Not McBean. This is a different front office and even ownership, they have nothing to do with Lynch/Peters.

 

Bean and McD seem to be universally respected. This isn't Nix and Chan. I'm going to trust in them until given evidence to the contrary, and none of us have been given any evidence regardless of opinion.

[Eric Moulds on my A**]

Who's history though? Not McBean. This is a different front office and even ownership, they have nothing to do with Lynch/Peters.

 

Bean and McD seem to be universally respected. This isn't Nix and Chan. I'm going to trust in them until given evidence to the contrary, and none of us have been given any evidence regardless of opinion.

I still can't forget about Nix and the Tampa GM being crank yanked and recorded about that convo with Fitz. Can't help but think he might've renegotiated his contract and we could've avoided the entire Gym Mat fiasco. The EJ, Tuel, Thad year was just hard to watch.

 

I can't see Beane being worse than that.

[Captain Murica]

I still can't forget about Nix and the Tampa GM being crank yanked and recorded about that convo with Fitz. Can't help but think he might've renegotiated his contract and we could've avoided the entire Gym Mat fiasco. The EJ, Tuel, Thad year was just hard to watch.

 

I can't see Beane being worse than that.

 

I was happy to be rid of Fitz then I realized they're QBs in the NFL that are worse than Fitz.

[Jauronimo]

This is fine.

This is what happens in every training camp about this time of year. Guys just get frustrated lining up against each other every day. Nothing to see here. Right?

[GG]

Not sure of your point. My point is that prior to the trades, the Bills talent level wasn't that bad, and with a little luck they had a chance to replace a team like Miami in the WC sweepstakes. Trading away top talent hurts their chances to do this. Is this even arguable?

 

Of course it's arguable, because that's why they play the game. Otherwise Bills should have been handed the Lombardi last June because they won the offseason.

 

On paper, the Bills talent is worse today than it was last Friday. But I'm not going to make a prognostication that this team will fall apart if it jumps out a 5-3 start. I'm looking at a top 5 offense which didn't lose much production in the departed vets, and a defense that squandered 4 second half leads. If they hold on to two of those Ws, plus don't trot out the EJ experiment in the finale, it's a playoff team.

 

Last year's squad went 1-4 to close out the season, with the missing talent you're referring to. Maybe there was more to it than the talent?

Edited August 14, 2017 by GG

[Joe Miner]

 

Of course it's arguable, because that's why they play the game. Otherwise Bills should have been handed the Lombardi last June because they won the offseason.

 

On paper, the Bills talent is worse today than it was last Friday. But I'm not going to make a prognostication that this team will fall apart if it jumps out a 5-3 start. I'm looking at a top 5 offense which didn't lose much production in the departed vets, and a defense that squandered 4 second half leads. If they hold on to two of those Ws, plus don't trot out the EJ experiment in the finale, it's a playoff team.

 

Last year's squad went 1-4 to close out the season, with the missing talent you're referring to. Maybe there was more to it than the talent?

Exactly.

 

Talent wise the Bills lost. But they played close last year without SW (when he did play he wasn't healthy) and will play again this year without him. Is the offensive talent that much worse than what actually played last year?

 

This year the D is back to the 4-3 which most people believe they are better suited for. Losing Darby isn't good, but he was pretty bad last year. If they are able to get better production out of KS (or another CB) than Darby last year, the D should actually be better overall. That's not asking for a lot in terms of CB production.

 

We definitely lost good players and talent, but unless they make more moves, I fail to see how this is a tank job compared with the team we put on the field last year.

[MAJBobby]

I have a feeling we are going back to the days of Great Guys with little to no talent days

[GG]

You need playmakers in this league.

 

Outside of McCoy and Tyrod(who a lot of people love to bash) the Bills have 0 playmakers.

 

Let me repeat - The Bills went 1-4 down the stretch last year WITH the playmakers everyone is crying about.

[VABills]

Let me repeat - The Bills went 1-4 down the stretch last year WITH the playmakers everyone is crying about.

TT didn't play the last game. The person who likes to throw to tents started that last game.

[dave mcbride]

 

Of course it's arguable, because that's why they play the game. Otherwise Bills should have been handed the Lombardi last June because they won the offseason.

 

On paper, the Bills talent is worse today than it was last Friday. But I'm not going to make a prognostication that this team will fall apart if it jumps out a 5-3 start. I'm looking at a top 5 offense which didn't lose much production in the departed vets, and a defense that squandered 4 second half leads. If they hold on to two of those Ws, plus don't trot out the EJ experiment in the finale, it's a playoff team.

 

Last year's squad went 1-4 to close out the season, with the missing talent you're referring to. Maybe there was more to it than the talent?

I don't understand your first sentence (seriously). I'm not talking about stupid Ryan quotes (your second sentence) or stupid Ryan coaching (your final sentence). My guess is that the current Bills staff is possibly good and as a baseline *competent* based on past results. Excellent talent helps teams win more than JAG talent does, assuming the coaching is NFL-competent. Having a bad coach is admittedly a spanner in the works vis-a-vis my argument, but I don't think that's the case anymore. It was the case last season, admittedly. Relatedly, Watkins was playing hurt even when he was in there. He wasn't nearly 100 percent, even in the Miami game.

 

Let me repeat - The Bills went 1-4 down the stretch last year WITH the playmakers everyone is crying about.

See my point about the coaching above. Plus: the final game shouldn't count, and last I recall, the Bills won that Miami game but were royally screwed by the refs in particularly egregious fashion - 2 blatant no-calls in in the end zone for PI (8 points surrendered) and not granting a TO to Ryan on that kick.

Edited August 14, 2017 by dave mcbride

[GG]

I don't understand your first sentence (seriously). I'm not talking about stupid Ryan quotes (your second sentence) or stupid Ryan coaching (your final sentence). My guess is that the current Bills staff is possibly good and as a baseline *competent* based on past results. Excellent talent helps teams win, assuming the coaching is competent. Having a bad coach is admittedly a spanner in the works vis-a-vis my argument, but I don't think that's the case anymore. It was the case last season, admittedly.

 

It's not arguable that Bills got worse on paper. It's certainly arguable whether the talent they lost would have contributed to more wins. To me it's a stretch to surmise that if the Bills jump out to 5-3, they would wilt without Sammy & Darby.

[section122]

 

I was happy to be rid of Fitz then I realized they're QBs in the NFL that are worse than Fitz.

 

This is the realization I was hoping people would make about TT this off season. There are certainly worse qbs than him.

 

 

Let me repeat - The Bills went 1-4 down the stretch last year WITH the playmakers everyone is crying about.

 

So how good will they do without those play makers? This trade upset me because you don't get rid of talented players for what ifs. Especially YOUNG talent. If you are going to move on from guys it should be the ones closer to the end than the beginning. Sammy is only 2 years older than Zay Jones for comparison. Sammy has proven he can play in this league.

 

I did finally put my finger on it though. I'm always excited for Bills football good or bad. This year I was pumped to watch the first preseason game. I got about 12 hours of excitement before the Bills decided I have to wait another 12 months for competitive football. I watched 4 straight passes from TT to Sammy and thought "that combo can do something this year" then they broke it up. Teams just don't give up YOUNG players of Sammy's caliber unless forced and certainly not for a 2nd round pick.

 

I'm a koolaid drinker but since this trade I feel a lot more like ScottLaw than I do John from Hemet. I'm left with a lot of why bother. I feel like someone kicked my dog. The Bills do this to me pretty much every year but at least they let me make it until November before they do that. Sorry to go so far off topic I still can't formulate my thoughts other than it f*cking sucks.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

You mean like the one he got from patting his own teammate on his helmet?

Hey the NFL isn't messing around with this concussion stuff anymore...