Dumb Carucci column...assessing QB position

[eball]

This Carucci gem is on the front page this morning. Come on, Vic.

 

First, he says that Tyrod could be "negatively impacted" because he took a pay cut. Umm, ok.

 

He also says the Bills got "slightly worse" at the QB position. What? Tyrod has an another year of experience and an OC with whom he is familiar -- he got worse? The Bills dumped EJ and added Yates and Peterman to battle for the backup job -- they got worse?

 

You don't have to be a Taylor fan or believe he's a franchise QB to understand that this is simply a pretty poor assessment of the Bills' QBs.

 

Vic is a shell of his former self.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

Is that Negativity or Reality?

 

Some truth, some click bait.

 

Truth - If Bills were convinced Taylor was their long-term franchise QB, there would be a much firmer contractual commitment than the one they have that leaves them an easy out after this season.

 

Truth - Sure, Taylor has plenty of incentive to have the best season of his career. Whether it's from the Bills or another team, he wants to prove that he deserves to get paid.

 

Truth - But there's reason to wonder what his frame of mind will be after being forced to take a pay cut. Taylor also is well aware that, with the use of a fifth-round draft pick on a quarterback (Peterman) and the acquisition of a first-round choice in 2018, the Bills are positioned to replace him if he doesn't make dramatic strides.

 

Truth - Although his fleet feet remain vital to the Bills’ strong rushing production, Taylor remains too quick to run and does a poor job of looking for targets in the middle of the field. Except for the final practice of mandatory minicamp, he had generally mediocre to poor showings through offseason workouts open to the media.

 

Truth - The fact Taylor will be transitioning to yet another new offense is another potential stumbling block.

 

The rest is conjecture imo.

Edited June 27, 2017 by ShadyBillsFan

[oldmanfan]

He fails to say that TT and Dennison were together with the Ravens. So it's not a new offense to him.

[ChanOverChin]

I think the Bills are better at QB than they were last year.

 

#1 Dennison's offense is taylor-made for Taylor (yes, pun intended). I think this season will bear that out. In addition, Taylor has another year under his belt as a full-fledged NFL starting QB. That has to count for something. In fact, it should help to boost his confidence and allow him to be much more of a leader of the offense.

 

Carucci says that it will hurt Taylor that the Bills haven't committed to him long term. I could just as easily say that it could work to the Bills' favor because he could play with a chip on his shoulder and out to prove that he deserves to be the starting QB for the Bills and to be paid the big money long term.

 

#2 Manuel turned out to be nothing but a big tease. He just doesn't have what it takes upstairs. Yates is easily an upgrade over him.

 

#3 Peterman gives the Bills something they haven't had in a long time.......a young QB who has a real chance to develop into a long time starter. Yet another upgrade.

[Shaw66]

The idea that Taylor's off-season contract negotiation will affect his play is ridiculous. The press often says stuff like this,and it's rarely or ever true. These guys are young athletes. They play as hard as they can every day, and they are focused on the game, not their contracts, when the game is being played.

 

Taylor too quick to run? That's totally wrong. Taylor is first or second in the league in time spent in the pocket. The complaint about Taylor is that he's indecisive and holds the ball too long, not that he's too quick to take off running. Does Vic even watch the games?

 

And I've been saying all off-season. That notion that Taylor was forced into a contract renegotiation is wrong. The Bills weren't going to cut Taylor. A year from now Taylor will have a better contract than the one he had BEFORE he renegotiated. It'll be with the Bills or with someone else.

[transient]

Is that Negativity or Reality?

 

Some truth, some click bait.

 

Truth (imo) If Bills were convinced Taylor was their long-term franchise QB, there would be a much firmer contractual commitment than the one they have that leaves them an easy out after this season.

 

Truth (imo) Sure, Taylor has plenty of incentive to have the best season of his career. Whether it's from the Bills or another team, he wants to prove that he deserves to get paid.

 

Truth (imo) But there's reason to wonder what his frame of mind will be after being forced to take a pay cut. Taylor also is well aware that, with the use of a fifth-round draft pick on a quarterback (Peterman) and the acquisition of a first-round choice in 2018, the Bills are positioned to replace him if he doesn't make dramatic strides.

 

Truth (imo) Although his fleet feet remain vital to the Bills strong rushing production, Taylor remains too quick to run and does a poor job of looking for targets in the middle of the field. Except for the final practice of mandatory minicamp, he had generally mediocre to poor showings through offseason workouts open to the media.

 

Truth (imo) The fact Taylor will be transitioning to yet another new offense is another potential stumbling block.

 

The rest is conjecture.

When you have to qualify "truth" with "in my opinion" isn't that essentially conjecture?

[RalphWilson'sNewWar]

Bills have worse odds in Vegas than the Browns to win AFC.

 

THATS

 

Our QB situation.

[Jerry Jabber]

With the Bills trading back with the Chiefs to gain an extra first round pick for next year, you can bet they are going to use both of those picks to move up and draft a QB. The only way that doesn't happen is if Tyrod has a monster year this season. If Watkins, Clay, McCoy and Zay Jones stay healthy for the most part, then Tyrod has a chance of making that happen.

 

I don't agree with Carucci that Tyrod will be less motivated about taking a pay cut. I think Tyrod will be more motivated to prove he is a legitimate franchise QB, if not for the Bills, then another team.

[Buffalo86]

This harkens back to the days when we couldn't have a backup better than Thigpen for fear of rattling Fitz's confidence. If your QB lets outside factors like these hurt his play, then he's not the right guy to be leading your offense.

[BuffaloHokie13]

Bills have worse odds in Vegas than the Browns to win AFC.

 

THATS

 

Our QB situation.

Um, what?

 

Bills Super Bowl Odds: 90/1

Browns Super Bowl Odds: 300/1

 

Bills AFC Champ Odds: 45/1

Browns AFC Champs Odds: 150/1

[PromoTheRobot]

You might have noticed that Taylor gives zero f###s about doubters.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

This Carucci gem is on the front page this morning. Come on, Vic.

 

First, he says that Tyrod could be "negatively impacted" because he took a pay cut. Umm, ok.

 

He also says the Bills got "slightly worse" at the QB position. What? Tyrod has an another year of experience and an OC with whom he is familiar -- he got worse? The Bills dumped EJ and added Yates and Peterman to battle for the backup job -- they got worse?

 

You don't have to be a Taylor fan or believe he's a franchise QB to understand that this is simply a pretty poor assessment of the Bills' QBs.

 

Vic is a shell of his former self.

...guess Sammy should also be negatively impacted because of 5th year option as well.....two negatives equal a positive??..........

Edited June 27, 2017 by OldTimeAFLGuy

[Hapless Bills Fan]

This Carucci gem is on the front page this morning. Come on, Vic.

 

First, he says that Tyrod could be "negatively impacted" because he took a pay cut. Umm, ok.

 

He also says the Bills got "slightly worse" at the QB position. What? Tyrod has an another year of experience and an OC with whom he is familiar -- he got worse? The Bills dumped EJ and added Yates and Peterman to battle for the backup job -- they got worse?

 

You don't have to be a Taylor fan or believe he's a franchise QB to understand that this is simply a pretty poor assessment of the Bills' QBs.

 

Vic is a shell of his former self.

 

The reasoning structure is:

-Taylor is the Bills best choice at QB

-Taylor's mental outlook may be made worse by taking a pay cut

-Therefore the Bills got worse at QB

 

I don't see a 5th round draft choice as 'poised to replace' Taylor - he might, more likely he won't or not in the next couple seasons.

 

In general, NFL players who are "playing for a contract" or "playing to prove themselves" tend to play better, not worse, but of course that does depend upon the individual player and his mental makeup.

So using the same reasoning structure, one could equally argue that the Bills got better because Taylor will likely play better in the effort to prove himself.

[4_kidd_4]

You might have noticed that Taylor gives zero f###s about doubters.

He also feels the same about staying in a clean pocket.

[eball]

 

The reasoning structure is:

-Taylor is the Bills best choice at QB

-Taylor's mental outlook may be made worse by taking a pay cut

-Therefore the Bills got worse at QB

 

I don't see a 5th round draft choice as 'poised to replace' Taylor - he might, more likely he won't or not in the next couple seasons.

 

In general, NFL players who are "playing for a contract" or "playing to prove themselves" tend to play better, not worse, but of course that does depend upon the individual player and his mental makeup.

So using the same reasoning structure, one could equally argue that the Bills got better because Taylor will likely play better in the effort to prove himself.

 

It's an absurd reasoning structure. As you stated, if anything, Taylor is more motivated than ever.

[Shaw66]

When you have to qualify "truth" with "in my opinion" isn't that essentially conjecture?

He was saying that in his opinion what Carucci said was true. There's nothing wrong about having an opinion about whether something is true. For example, if I say OJ killed his ex-wife, you probably have an opinion about whether that statement is true or not. You don't know, but you have an opinion.

[jr1]

TD Mike being gone is a bigger problem

[eball]

TD Mike being gone is a bigger problem

 

When Vic writes another dumb column about the RB situation this comment will have some relevance.

[JM2009]

Bills have worse odds in Vegas than the Browns to win AFC.

 

THATS

 

Our QB situation.

This is not true.

[Thurman#1]

The idea that Taylor's off-season contract negotiation will affect his play is ridiculous. The press often says stuff like this,and it's rarely or ever true. These guys are young athletes. They play as hard as they can every day, and they are focused on the game, not their contracts, when the game is being played.

 

Taylor too quick to run? That's totally wrong. Taylor is first or second in the league in time spent in the pocket. The complaint about Taylor is that he's indecisive and holds the ball too long, not that he's too quick to take off running. Does Vic even watch the games?

 

And I've been saying all off-season. That notion that Taylor was forced into a contract renegotiation is wrong. The Bills weren't going to cut Taylor. A year from now Taylor will have a better contract than the one he had BEFORE he renegotiated. It'll be with the Bills or with someone else.

 

 

 

It's not incorrect at all that Taylor is too quick to run. You just have to add "sometimes." As in sometimes he runs from clean pockets. That's what he was referring to and it's true, and one of Tyrod's bigger problems. And he's not number one or two in time spent in the pocket from any stat I've seen. He's number one or two in time holding the ball. Which is different. Where he was when he held the ball didn't enter into that stat and sprinting towards the sidelines counts. And often takes more time than staying in the pocket and surveying the whole field. If you're referring to a stat I haven't seen, fair enough, let me know where you saw that.

 

And yeah, you've been saying it all offseason that he wasn't forced into a contract renegotiation. Extremely unconvincingly.

 

Agreed that his negotiations are unlikely to have any major affect on his play. However the article points out that a new offense rather than the one he's been in for two years could cause problems and that's indeed a possibility. He also points out that he had poor showing during most of the offseason workouts and that's pretty reasonable also in terms of evidence. Something must have caused that and that something might (or might not, but it's certainly possible) cause further problems in the future.

 

It's just Vic's opinion. Opinions that he'll do at least as well as last year are also very reasonable at this point.

Edited June 27, 2017 by Thurman#1

[IDBillzFan]

Um, what?

 

Bills Super Bowl Odds: 90/1

Browns Super Bowl Odds: 300/1

 

Bills AFC Champ Odds: 45/1

Browns AFC Champs Odds: 150/1

 

He probably meant Las Vegas, New Mexico.

 

All the fun of Las Vegas, Nevada, without the fun.

[Thurman#1]

 

It's an absurd reasoning structure. As you stated, if anything, Taylor is more motivated than ever.

 

 

More motivated? Sure, reasonable. More secure and confident in his situation? Not so much. And both of those could matter, or not.

 

Probably not all that much would be my guess but the reasoning structure is fine.

[JohnC]

This Carucci gem is on the front page this morning. Come on, Vic.

 

First, he says that Tyrod could be "negatively impacted" because he took a pay cut. Umm, ok.

 

He also says the Bills got "slightly worse" at the QB position. What? Tyrod has an another year of experience and an OC with whom he is familiar -- he got worse? The Bills dumped EJ and added Yates and Peterman to battle for the backup job -- they got worse?

 

You don't have to be a Taylor fan or believe he's a franchise QB to understand that this is simply a pretty poor assessment of the Bills' QBs.

 

Vic is a shell of his former self.s

You can reasonably have problems with VC's view of the qbs and how they will respond to their respective situations. However, the simple reduction/conclusion is that Tyrod is not a franchise qb. The "why" and "how" isn't as important as the "is". That is the core point. Very often a poor articulation of a point doesn't necessarily mean that the essence of what the person is saying is incorrect.

 

Whether the Bills got worse or not at the qb position means little if the Bills remained inadequately staffed at that position. That's the basic point. There are others who have a more optimistic view on TT believing that issues relating to coaching and systems will uplift the qb to another level. I'm not one of those believers.

 

This is a barren time a year where poorly grounded conjecture is par for the course. You are reading too much into things. When the players start practicing and playing your concerns will have more legitimacy. Now is the time to throw out flimsy thoughts without being intensely scrutinized.

[Shaw66]

 

 

 

It's not incorrect at all that Taylor is too quick to run. You just have to add "sometimes." As in sometimes he runs from clean pockets. That's what he was referring to and it's true, and one of Tyrod's bigger problems. And he's not number one or two in time spent in the pocket from any stat I've seen. He's number one or two in time holding the ball. Which is different. Where he was when he held the ball didn't enter into that stat and sprinting towards the sidelines counts. If you're referring to a stat I haven't seen, fair enough, let me know where you saw that.

 

And yeah, you've been saying it all offseason that he wasn't forced into a contract renegotiation. Extremely unconvincingly.

 

Agreed that his negotiations are unlikely to have any major affect on his play. However the article points out that a new offense rather than the one he's been in for two years could cause problems and that's indeed a possibility. He also points out that he had poor showing during most of the offseason workouts and that's pretty reasonable also in terms of evidence. Something must have caused that and that something might (or might not, but it's certainly possible) cause further problems in the future.

 

It's just Vic's opinion. Opinions that he'll do at least as well as last year are also very reasonable at this point.

You're right about pretty much all of this.

 

I was referring to time holding the ball. I don't think there are stats about time staying the pocket, and I don't think there are stats about leaving clean pockets too early. That's ALL conjecture. But the fact that he holds the ball longer than most QBs supports what I've always observed, which is that he's always looking downfield to throw. Carucci is suggesting that he gives up on pass plays too quickly, and that isn't true.

 

Yes it's possible that the new offense could cause problems. It's equally true that it could be better for Taylor, for a couple of reasons: the decision making is apparently easier. And since the offense runs the ball wide more often, the offense will tend to spread the defense more, which should help Taylor running.

 

As for his poor showing during the off-season, I'd really like to know where that is coming from. I've seen NO quotes or comments attributed to anyone who actually saw the off-season workouts saying anything at all like that. Plus, even if it's true, the fact that he didn't perform well in most of the off-season could be attributed to his learning the offense. That doesn't necessarily mean that he'll struggle in the regular season.

 

And, yes, it IS Vic's opinion. And others, like you and I, are free to express how we agree and disagree with that opinion. None of those opinions is worth anything, but none of us has seen the practices, has been in the meeting, has had frank conversations with Taylor or McDermott. Vic's bull **** smells just as bad as mine.

[PromoTheRobot]

You can reasonably have problems with VC's view of the qbs and how they will respond to their respective situations. However, the simple reduction/conclusion is that Tyrod is not a franchise qb. The "why" and "how" isn't as important as the "is". That is the core point. Very often a poor articulation of a point doesn't necessarily mean that the essence of what the person is saying is incorrect.

 

Whether the Bills got worse or not at the qb position means little if the Bills remained inadequately staffed at that position. That's the basic point. There are others who have a more optimistic view on TT believing that issues relating to coaching and systems will uplift the qb to another level. I'm not one of those believers.

 

This is a barren time a year where poorly grounded conjecture is par for the course. You are reading too much into things. When the players start practicing and playing your concerns will have more legitimacy. Now is the time to throw out flimsy thoughts without being intensely scrutinized.

And if Rex's defense makes two key stops last season the Bills are 10-6 and in the playoffs. Magically Taylor becomes a franchise QB. Funny how that works.

Bills have worse odds in Vegas than the Browns to win AFC.

 

THATS

 

Our QB situation.

That's incredible! 100% not even CLOSE to being true, but incredible if it was. Edited June 27, 2017 by PromoTheRobot

[Chandler#81]

I don't think it's all that negative an article. he doesn't bash Tyrod (IMO), he's suggesting things may not work out well.. Its a beat reporter doing an off-season position analysis. I agree Cardale doesn't look like, nor seem to have the coaches backing that he'll still be here in September. Haven't seen anything from Yates to expect anything from him. So, yeah, I guess I agree that the QB position is slightly worse than last off season.

 

With no history to suggest this, IF our WR's, TE's and RB's can stay healthy, I expect Tyrod to have a very good year.

[JM2009]

I don't think it's all that negative an article. he doesn't bash Tyrod (IMO), he's suggesting things may not work out well.. Its a beat reporter doing an off-season position analysis. I agree Cardale doesn't look like, nor seem to have the coaches backing that he'll still be here in September. Haven't seen anything from Yates to expect anything from him. So, yeah, I guess I agree that the QB position is slightly worse than last off season.

 

With no history to suggest this, IF our WR's, TE's and RB's can stay healthy, I expect Tyrod to have a very good year.

Yates is a much better veteran than EJ, so that is an improvement right there. Peterman I'm sure will prove to be better than Jones, also.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

When you have to qualify "truth" with "in my opinion" isn't that essentially conjecture?

my opinion of a "truth" may be your conjecture.

[eball]

I don't think it's all that negative an article. he doesn't bash Tyrod (IMO), he's suggesting things may not work out well.. Its a beat reporter doing an off-season position analysis. I agree Cardale doesn't look like, nor seem to have the coaches backing that he'll still be here in September. Haven't seen anything from Yates to expect anything from him. So, yeah, I guess I agree that the QB position is slightly worse than last off season.

 

With no history to suggest this, IF our WR's, TE's and RB's can stay healthy, I expect Tyrod to have a very good year.

 

I wasn't taking issue with whether the column is positive or negative -- simply that the "analysis" is dumb. There's no reasonable reason to suggest Taylor will be worse this year than last -- is there? So if Tyrod isn't worse, we're left with the backups -- and aren't Yates and Peterman already clearly an improvement over EJ? Jones was there last year so he's a wash (and probable cut).

 

It's just an illogical piece.

[BmarvB]

"He also says the Bills got "slightly worse" at the QB position." TJ replacing EJ as #2 makes the position slightly worse? Really man?? Seriously??? Cardale is on his way out, andPeterman could prove to be an upgrade at #3 and TT returning is our best option at the position right now. C'MON MAN!!

[chris heff]

Does anyone think that having a head coach and an actual offensive coordinator will help Taylor? I'm pretty sure most have concluded that Rex was incompetent. Then there was the Greg Roman debacle, how many teams would have survived that dumpster fire to at least mathematically be alive in December? Let's not forget that Taylor was throwing to guys off the street by mid season.

[SoCal Deek]

I'm going to suggest that everyone wait to see how Tyrod does in a new offense. And apparently it's one that he's familiar with. If he improves then you'll know that is was more about the scheme than the skill set.

 

I'm really hoping the new scheme provides him with the platform to make quicker decisions and to throw the ball earlier. That's the main difference that I'll be looking for.

[leonbus23]

I think the Bills are better at QB than they were last year.

 

#1 Dennison's offense is taylor-made for Taylor (yes, pun intended). I think this season will bear that out. In addition, Taylor has another year under his belt as a full-fledged NFL starting QB. That has to count for something. In fact, it should help to boost his confidence and allow him to be much more of a leader of the offense.

 

Carucci says that it will hurt Taylor that the Bills haven't committed to him long term. I could just as easily say that it could work to the Bills' favor because he could play with a chip on his shoulder and out to prove that he deserves to be the starting QB for the Bills and to be paid the big money long term.

 

#2 Manuel turned out to be nothing but a big tease. He just doesn't have what it takes upstairs. Yates is easily an upgrade over him.

 

#3 Peterman gives the Bills something they haven't had in a long time.......a young QB who has a real chance to develop into a long time starter. Yet another upgrade.

I totally agree. Just as a side note, it's "tailor" made.

[C.Biscuit97]

"He also says the Bills got "slightly worse" at the QB position." TJ replacing EJ as #2 makes the position slightly worse? Really man?? Seriously??? Cardale is on his way out, andPeterman could prove to be an upgrade at #3 and TT returning is our best option at the position right now. C'MON MAN!!

I know everyone hates him but EJ has better numbers across the board than TJ Yates. Yates is terrible and would still be on the market if we didn't sign him.

 

Peterman and Jones haven't proven a thing in the NFL. That said, we need to hope they can beat out a guy like Yates because if they don't, we are in tough shape.

 

And the offseason contract stuff affecting Taylor is stupid. Personally, I don't think Taylor is good enough but he should be super motivated to prove himself and sign a big, long deal. I guess it's pressure for him but if he is a franchise qb, he will step up.

At what point did Manuel tease us?

 

He had a couple good games to start his NFL career and after that he was pretty bad to awful.

And still, he is better than TJ Yates.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

OYE - Not another EJ bashing segue.

 

Lets talk about what is. Taylor, Yates, Peterman and Jones.

[Chandler#81]

le

 

I know everyone hates him but EJ has better numbers across the board than TJ Yates. Yates is terrible and would still be on the market if we didn't sign him.

Peterman and Jones haven't proven a thing in the NFL. That said, we need to hope they can beat out a guy like Yates because if they don't, we are in tough shape.

And the offseason contract stuff affecting Taylor is stupid. Personally, I don't think Taylor is good enough but he should be super motivated to prove himself and sign a big, long deal. I guess it's pressure for him but if he is a franchise qb, he will step up.

And still, he is better than TJ Yates.

 

My take as well. I don't think Yates is an upgrade over EJ and while Peterman has 4 years starting experience in college vs. Cardale's 4 games, both are unknown. Stay healthy, Tyrod!!

[C.Biscuit97]

le

 

 

My take as well. I don't think Yates is an upgrade over EJ and while Peterman has 4 years starting experience in college vs. Cardale's 4 games, both are unknown. Stay healthy, Tyrod!!

Yup. Hopefully, Peterman and Jones turn out to be good backup qbs at worst. But they are completely unknowns and Yates' best skill is knowing the playbook.

[Rico]

le

 

 

My take as well. I don't think Yates is an upgrade over EJ and while Peterman has 4 years starting experience in college vs. Cardale's 4 games, both are unknown. Stay healthy, Tyrod!!

I haven't seen all of Yates games in the NFL, but I don't believe he has any EJ-type clownshow performances. Hoyer yes, but not Yates. MAJOR upgrade by subtraction, gotta disagree with Vic.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

Yup. Hopefully, Peterman and Jones turn out to be good backup qbs at worst. But they are completely unknowns and Yates' best skill is knowing the playbook.

I don't think Jones makes it past the first cut.

 

It's McD's team now and any unproven leftover has a slim to no chance.

[GunnerBill]

So where I think Vic is right - the pay cut and contract slashing tells you all you all you need to know about how the Bills actually view Tyrod - the best option for now but not a viable long term option.

 

Where I think he is massively reaching - that the pay cut is likely to have any effect on Tyrod's mental state when the season begins. Tyrod just never comes across as that type to me. He is a guy that has never done anything the easy way as a QB his whole career. He has always been fighting the odds. To even be where he is is a fantastic underdog story of a competitor who takes knock backs as challenges. I expect Tyrod to be the same Tyrod we have seen through two years. He will be conservative with the football but will lead his guys and make some plays. Same ceiling, same flaws but the same competitor he has always been.

 

What has been mentioned in this thread that I do question a bit is the idea this offense is a perfect fit for him. I think people look at the boots and the rollouts and presume that.... but this offense also relies a lot on timing routes and really accentuates short range accuracy. They are areas I think Tyrod still has questions to answer.