Pats sign Gillislee to offer sheet

[FireChan]

No doubt, and I liked both Karlos and Mike. However, these guys' situations were not very similar to MG/KW (backing up McCoy, number of carries, etc.).

 

Reggie Bush - 12 attempts for -3 yards.

Jonathan Williams - 27 attempts for 94 yards.

Boom Herron - 11 attempts for 37 yards.

Boobie Dixon - 105 attempts for 432 yards (pre-McCoy).

Cierre Wood - 2 attempts for 3 yards.

 

The fact is, the Bills had two journeyman type guys backing up McCoy for the last two years who essentially put up identical numbers.

 

Trading a 5th round pick for Mike Gillislee and making him the 10th highest paid player on your team is bad football. Plain and simple.

Gillislee was a nobody, but he may be the next Arian Foster, who quickly became an non-journeyman. Karlos was a talented player with huge character red flags who still got drafted.

 

I don't think it's the same as "two bums." IMO.

[akm0404]

The Bills are currently 21st in available cap space, with approximately $10m less cap space than the average team.

 

To suggest that we have tons of free space so we can somehow afford to overpay a backup running back is dubious at best.

[YoloinOhio]

 

Say what? Matching the Patriots offer sheet EXACTLY costs the Bills a 5th round draft pick, and EXACTLY makes him the 10th highest paid player on the team (in terms of 2017-2018 salary cap cost).

what the Bills do with Gillislee here will show whether they think he's a future starter. If they match, they think he is. McCoy could be gone next year, he would step up. If they dont, they take the pick and draft their future starter or believe Jwill can be that guy. NE has a RBBC and it doesn't matter what they think about Gillislee because they have a totally different offense where they rotate their backs and rely on the passing game.

[BuffaloRebound]

As much as I despise the patriots, if Gillislee is good enough for them, it should be a no brainer to keep him. Same with Hogan last year. Unfortunately Bills didn't have ability to match Gilmore. I know that Patriots aren't infallible but Bills are in no position to be thinking they are smarter than Patriots. 2 years, $6m isn't breaking the bank. Hopefully McDermott is smart enough to over-ride whoever in the organization thinks they're smarter than Bellichik.

Edited April 19, 2017 by BuffaloRebound

[Royale with Cheese]

When he got on the field, he sucked. If he was #2 on the depth chart, how does that make him not suck?

Gillisee couldn't even get on the field his first three years in the league.

But hey, I guess you can determine how good a late rounder will be very early in their career.

We're you absolutely thrilled when we signed Gillisee in November of 2015? A guy cut by two previous teams, a street FA with a total of 6 carries in 3 years....you absolutely thought he was a great RB pick up?

[YoloinOhio]

The Bills are currently 21st in available cap space, with approximately $10m less cap space than the average team.

 

To suggest that we have tons of free space so we can somehow afford to overpay a backup running back is dubious at best.

they certainly have the space if they want to use it on him. He's already costing them 1.8 of that, add on a shade over 2 mill. Rookies will be only be about 3.8. They also get additional space post June 1 with the AW cut. It's not about whether they have the space, it's the value of the player in their offense.

[akm0404]

 

No it doesnt. That's not how it works at all. We get him at the contract that he signed with NE. We don't trade NE anything. Why would they get a pick for trying to poach a player?

 

Follow along here.

 

If the Bills match the Patriots offer sheet today, they have Mike Gillislee under team control for 2 years, costing $4m this year.

 

If the Bills do not, they do not have to pay him, and receive a 5th round draft pick.

 

Ergo, the cost of signing him is a 2-year $6.xm deal and NOT getting a 5th round pick.

 

The Bills can either have him at the terms off the offer sheet, OR the draft pick.

 

If this isn't trading MG for a 5th round pick, I honestly don't know what is.

[Doc]

Like I said, a lame appeal to authority. No one has to have done something before for it to be a good idea. Diuretics aren't prescribed because "everyone does it." They are prescribed because it's a good idea and they work.

 

You know all this.

 

The question is, do you?

 

So as a GM, you would tender every RFA at the 2nd round level because someone might sniff around any JAG player you have? OK.

 

Watkins hurt last season-we could have used Hogan.

 

Sure they could have used him. But his absence didn't make a bit of difference either way.

 

Let's make our 6 carry-per-game backup running back the 10th highest paid player (by 2017-2018 cap hit) on the team, AND trade a 5th round draft pick to keep him.

 

 

He'd actually be 12th highest. Just like he would on the Cheaters.

 

The only argument for keeping him that makes sense to me - is planning on cutting McCoy in 2018.

 

The other argument is he's a guy who averaged 5.7 YPC and score 9 TDs. Considering the production of Bush, Herron, JWill, etc., you can't simply say he'll be easily replaced.

[mjt328]

I never criticized Doug Whaley for letting Chris Hogan walk out the door. But I believe his handling of Mike Gillislee has been done poorly.

It's not about matching the offer sheet. It's about the fact that we could have paid Gillislee less than $1 million more and locked him up for sure.

 

Hogan was never going to be a big producer on our offense. He always fit the Patriots system better than ours. And even if he was still on our roster, we would still be looking for an upgrade opposite Sammy Watkins - with Hogan sitting as our #3 or #4. However, with our run-heavy offense and Shady's age, it would be foolish to enter the season without an experienced backup RB that can carry the offense if needed. We know that Gillislee fits our offense and we know that he can produce big when called upon.

 

Maybe it's all about the system, and we'll have no problems plugging in another guy that can produce 7-8 TDs and over 5.5 YPC.

But if Shady gets hurt, and our run game falls off... there will be no place that Whaley will be able to hide from this decision.

[Doc]

I never criticized Doug Whaley for letting Chris Hogan walk out the door. But I believe his handling of Mike Gillislee has been done poorly.

It's not about matching the offer sheet. It's about the fact that we could have paid Gillislee less than $1 million more and locked him up for sure.

 

Hogan was never going to be a big producer on our offense. He always fit the Patriots system better than ours. And even if he was still on our roster, we would still be looking for an upgrade opposite Sammy Watkins - with Hogan sitting as our #3 or #4. However, with our run-heavy offense and Shady's age, it would be foolish to enter the season without an experienced backup RB that can carry the offense if needed. We know that Gillislee fits our offense and we know that he can produce big when called upon.

 

Maybe it's all about the system, and we'll have no problems plugging in another guy that can produce 7-8 TDs and over 5.5 YPC.

But if Shady gets hurt, and our run game falls off... there will be no place that Whaley will be able to hide from this decision.

 

The Bills can still lock him up for sure by matching the offer. And get him for 2 years, not one.

[White Linen]

I think NE made a mistake here. If they move on from Blount and go with some combination of Gillislee, Lewis, White and Burkhead - their running game got downgraded significantly IMO.

 

The power Blount brought and his 18 TD's will be missed.

[Pbomb]

What was Williams YPC behind the same oline? Tolbert? Is his name even worth a mention?

The fact is this is just another move that shows no long term plan of building an actual team. Why sign a premiere full back and then break up your 1 2 punch at RB? Shady is going to be less effective with more carries and his health is always a concern, Gilly is hands down a better option than Williams/Tolbert.

Tolbert would be like Dixon starting a few games, but probably slower at this stage of his career. Why would you sign him and squabble over the million dollar difference between a 2nd/5th round tender with MG?

Tie it back to the late signing of Reggie Bush last season, what was all that about? There is no semblance of a plan here. Shady and Gilly lead the league in YPC and Gilly was a big part of that, he was efficient in the redzone and in short yardage. A perfect compliment for Shady.

So many other holes on this team but they play around with what is actually working. Didn't need to sign Bush or Tolbert, would have been better of trying to pick another young UDFA off the heap who has a chance of breaking out. Why pay more and sign two guys that already have seen their best days? Fundamentally unsound but oh so common at OBD.

karlos had 5.6 yds per carry behind the same oline so not sure what your point is

[FireChan]

The question is, do you?

 

So as a GM, you would tender every RFA at the 2nd round level because someone might sniff around any JAG player you have? OK.

 

 

 

Sure they could have used him. But his absence didn't make a bit of difference either way.

 

 

 

 

He'd actually be 12th highest. Just like he would on the Cheaters.

 

 

 

The other argument is he's a guy who averaged 5.7 YPC and score 9 TDs. Considering the production of Bush, Herron, JWill, etc., you can't simply say he'll be easily replaced.

Every JAG? No. Mike G? Yes.

 

I would've looked at the tandem of Mike G and Shady and how well they both played and tried to keep a strength of this team together. I wouldn't risk losing a good player over pennies and creating yet another hole on a team with too many.

 

But hey, that makes too much sense. Bills gonna Bills.

[billz4life820]

Mike G will be missed but you cannot pay a backup rb $4 million..... Bills played this wrong but a tleast they get a draft pick

[CommonCents]

karlos had 5.6 yds per carry behind the same oline so not sure what your point is

Karlos is not here anymore, I'm talking about the guys who would be counted on to replace MG's production.

Edited April 19, 2017 by Commonsense

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

 

Follow along here.

 

If the Bills match the Patriots offer sheet today, they have Mike Gillislee under team control for 2 years, costing $4m this year.

 

If the Bills do not, they do not have to pay him, and receive a 5th round draft pick.

 

Ergo, the cost of signing him is a 2-year $6.xm deal and NOT getting a 5th round pick.

 

The Bills can either have him at the terms off the offer sheet, OR the draft pick.

 

If this isn't trading MG for a 5th round pick, I honestly don't know what is.

 

Yes - the end result is "like" a trade... but if you sign him - you are exactly where you were when you tendered him - just paying him more. How is that "losing" a 5th round pick? We never had it to begin with.

[thebandit27]

Mike G will be missed but you cannot pay a backup rb $4 million..... Bills played this wrong but a tleast they get a draft pick

 

His AAV is $3M, which is standard for a backup RB

 

It's fine if you don't want to pay that for Gilly, but it's hardly out of whack for market value.

[KellyToughII]

54 damn pages over a backup RB? Come on folks, I know its a week before the draft but damn...

[PolishDave]

 

Yes - the end result is "like" a trade... but if you sign him - you are exactly where you were when you tendered him - just paying him more. How is that "losing" a 5th round pick? We never had it to begin with.

 

Because the pick is now part of the deal.

 

It wasn't before, but it is now.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

54 damn pages over a backup RB? Come on folks, I know its a week before the draft but damn...

 

Were you here when McCoy punched an off-duty cop? That must've been over 100

[PolishDave]

54 damn pages over a backup RB? Come on folks, I know its a week before the draft but damn...

As you can tell, there isn't much left to talk about that hasn't been already.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

 

Because the pick is now part of the deal.

 

It wasn't before, but it is now.

 

If we lose him - we get a pick. If we keep him... we keep him and lose nothing.

 

Lose him = trade and acquisition of a pick.

 

Keep him = keeping your own player and loss of nothing except cap space. It is nothing like a trade.

[HappyDays]

Gillislee was a nobody, but he may be the next Arian Foster, who quickly became an non-journeyman. Karlos was a talented player with huge character red flags who still got drafted.

 

I don't think it's the same as "two bums." IMO.

Lol ok he "could be" the next Arian Foster. Let's wait and see. Even if he is the next Arian Foster he isn't worth 40 pages. You can be realistic about this. It's the freaking backup RB. There is no way losing Gillislee is the difference this year. No way.

[CommonCents]

 

His AAV is $3M, which is standard for a backup RB

 

It's fine if you don't want to pay that for Gilly, but it's hardly out of whack for market value.

I'm surprised you haven't dumped all the advance stats on the board like you do for Sammy! From what I have seen Gilly ranked really well last season, if I'm remembering correctly he was the best back after contact.

[NewEra]

Maybe, just maybe.....the Bills value a 5th rd pick more than having gillislee for 1 season. If they deemed him not worthy of the money he wanted why wouldn't they cut ties and get a pick for him. Sure, the 2017 team will be hurt because of the loss, but the pick could help the team beyond 2017. Maybe, just maybe......the Bills are planing for the future and the future doesn't involve the backup RB getting paid 3.2 mill a year While the starter is getting paid 9 a year.

[PromoTheRobot]

I'm no fan of Cowherd, but he makes a really interesting point about all of this, and I think it makes a ton of sense:

 

http://www.newyorkupstate.com/buffalo-bills/index.ssf/2017/04/new_england_patriots_working_over_poorly_run_buffalo_bills_says_colin_cowherd.html

 

"Cowherd believes that Belichick has lost interest in draft picks after the collective bargaining agreement made things more "pro player" by eliminating the number of practices and amount of hitting that takes place. Instead of teaching rookies, Cowherd believes that Belichick prefers to get veterans who understand the game."

But, but what about the percentage of players you drafted being on your roster? Tim Graham said it was critical.

[BuffaloFan68]

I like G-money, really do but with our current roster, it's hard to justify anything over $2.5mil/yr, just can't do it. NEXT...

Go Bills!!!!!

[HappyDays]

They were both talented.

 

CC Reggie Bush

CC Jonathan Williams

CC Boom Herron

CC Boobie Dixon

CC Cierre Wood

 

All those guys had such great success!

Swing and a miss, these players came onto the field for mop up duty. When they were on the field everyone knew we were running. With Gillislee on the field teams had no clue what we were doing. I don't know why you're bringing up Dixon and Herron and Wood anyways since they were last year when we had Karlos and we easily replaced him... I have no clue how Jon Williams will look from here on out. But Gillislee himself didn't do anything his first couple years in the league.

 

Just admit you're making a bigger deal out of this than necessary... In your quest to find every possible worst case scenario you have stumbled into an argument about the backup QB. Surely there are more worthwhile concerns this year.

[PolishDave]

Maybe, just maybe.....the Bills value a 5th rd pick more than having gillislee for 1 season. If they deemed him not worthy of the money he wanted why wouldn't they cut ties and get a pick for him. Sure, the 2017 team will be hurt because of the loss, but the pick could help the team beyond 2017. Maybe, just maybe......the Bills are planing for the future and the future doesn't involve the backup RB getting paid 3.2 mill a year While the starter is getting paid 9 a year.

 

This is what I think is happening too. The Bills don't think MG is irreplaceable. This whole thing isn't really a big deal. It only becomes a big deal if the next back to replace him ends up sucking big time like Reggie Bush. If the replacement back is decent, which I would expect him to be, then I think the replacement will quickly get us to forget about Mike G.

[Rob's House]

 

Dude,

 

You are making an analogy that suggests you think Mike Gillislee is as good of running back as Peyton Manning was a quarterback.

 

Um.....

 

No

 

Pure silliness.

I hope this is tongue in cheek.

[Riverboat Richie]

Maybe, just maybe.....the Bills value a 5th rd pick more than having gillislee for 1 season. If they deemed him not worthy of the money he wanted why wouldn't they cut ties and get a pick for him. Sure, the 2017 team will be hurt because of the loss, but the pick could help the team beyond 2017. Maybe, just maybe......the Bills are planing for the future and the future doesn't involve the backup RB getting paid 3.2 mill a year While the starter is getting paid 9 a year.

 

One other thing. If the coaching staff wanted him they would not be in this situation. Seems to me they feel it's no big deal if they lose him. If they really want him they match the offer. I'm sure they have some say on what happens.

[aristocrat]

 

His AAV is $3M, which is standard for a backup RB

 

It's fine if you don't want to pay that for Gilly, but it's hardly out of whack for market value.

 

I'm surprised you haven't dumped all the advance stats on the board like you do for Sammy! From what I have seen Gilly ranked really well last season, if I'm remembering correctly he was the best back after contact.

We'd be the first team in the league to pay their backup that much money according to Sal. So it's not the going rate

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[NoSaint]

 

This is what I think is happening too. The Bills don't think MG is irreplaceable. This whole thing isn't really a big deal. It only becomes a big deal if the next back to replace him ends up sucking big time like Reggie Bush. If the replacement back is decent, which I would expect him to be, then I think the replacement will quickly get us to forget about Mike G.

I tend to agree but if you are expecting a guy to play a role, why even open the door to that issue instead of simply rendering slightly higher? Now it's late April and you have to figure it out. If a guy is expected to play and not just a 3rd string deep on the depth chart developmental or special teams guy-- just pick him up.

 

With the trio of hogan, groy and MG we'd have been better off as a group simply having all 3 here

[NoSaint]

We'd be the first team in the league to pay their backup that much money according to Sal. So it's not the going rate Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

In free agency in 2017 maybe but RB2s have gotten that money. Hell, look at the spiller deal in New Orleans when he left here to be ingrams change of pace

[PromoTheRobot]

Fire Chan loves to lump in guys who were emergency street free agents to fill in due to injury with guys who were actively scouted. It's like treating Kyle Orton as some long-considered front office decision instead of the desperation signing he was.

[FireChan]

Lol ok he "could be" the next Arian Foster. Let's wait and see. Even if he is the next Arian Foster he isn't worth 40 pages. You can be realistic about this. It's the freaking backup RB. There is no way losing Gillislee is the difference this year. No way.

You could make this argument about 46 Bills. But all those cuts add up.

 

Swing and a miss, these players came onto the field for mop up duty. When they were on the field everyone knew we were running. With Gillislee on the field teams had no clue what we were doing. I don't know why you're bringing up Dixon and Herron and Wood anyways since they were last year when we had Karlos and we easily replaced him... I have no clue how Jon Williams will look from here on out. But Gillislee himself didn't do anything his first couple years in the league.

 

Just admit you're making a bigger deal out of this than necessary... In your quest to find every possible worst case scenario you have stumbled into an argument about the backup QB. Surely there are more worthwhile concerns this year.

When Boom Herron was on the field, they "knew we were running?" What?

 

We didn't replace Karlos. We still have not.

 

We have a team where the #2 RB probably has the most importance among the league. That's not an ounce of hyperbole. Calling it just a "backup" is not fair.

 

The Bills are a better team in 2016 with MG as our #2 RB. Period.

Edited April 19, 2017 by FireChan

[bisonbrigade]

 

They did win the super bowl without him and gilmore last year. Are they really the guys putting them over the top?

YUP. and weakening the Bills. Hogan, Gilmore, Gillislee. The Bills are the minor league farm team of the Pats. What a joke.

[filthymcnasty08]

I really hope that the weakness that does the Pats in this year ....is starting QB.

 

come on Father Time...where the @#$% are you!!!!

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

Bill Belichik spoke at the Ohio State coach's clinic last week and said something I found kind of interesting, since we have seen kind of different approach from them this offseason. He said that at this point in his career, he wants to coach players he likes. Insinuating that he really has nothing left to prove, but he still wants to coach, and he doesn't feel the need to deal with any players he "doesn't like" just because they are talented, something he did in the past when he felt pressure to win. He also said he trusts certain programs and college coaches and prefers to draft from them over others which narrows down his prospects but he likes it that way.

I think being successful enables him to dabble with different things. He doesn't seem like the type to just sit back and say lets stick with what works. Kudos to him for realizing things will evolve and you need to be looking ahead at what you need to do.

[BillsVet]

This reminds me of the Chargers. They kept LT 1 year too long and let go of michael turner. Turner went on to have 4-5 strong years with Atlanta, and LT was gone the next year and out of the NFL 2 years later. I'd rather get rid of a RB a year early than a year late, and keep the younger RB. Especially one thats average 5.7 per carry the last 2 years

 

Yep.

 

So many fans don't expect their GM to anticipate problems and then act surprised when a player can't get it done anymore. Yet these are the same people calling for a CEO's head whose business doesn't improve and they're paid too much. A NFL GM should be expected to assess his roster and who is improving or regressing. And naturally, to plan accordingly.

 

Is it that hard for a guy in the NFL 20+ years to anticipate a 29 year old back with balky hamstrings might need (EDIT: a quality) backup at a position which probably has the greatest probability of injury? A position where they're hit on just about every carry?

 

Is that too much for this GM? Especially considering they're set up to be a run first team?

 

GM's need to operate in the here and now while keeping an eye on the future. I don't sense Whaley does much of the later because he's too concerned about keeping his job to make bold decisions like moving on from a player before it's too late.

 

Things that make you go hmmmm.....

 

Karlos Williams - 93 attempts for 517 yards (5.6 avg.) and 7 TD, 11 receptions for 96 yards and 2 TD.

613 total yards and 9 total touchdowns.

 

Mike Gillislee - 101 attempts for 577 yards (5.7 avg.) and 8 TD, 9 receptions for 50 yards and 1 TD.

627 total yards and 9 total touchdowns.

 

Karlos Williams - a guy who can barely find a home on an NFL roster.

Mike Gillislee - a guy who couldn't find a home on an NFL roster.

 

Is it maybe, just maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaybe possible that you don't need top tier talent to be a productive backup running back in Buffalo?

 

More fans defining conflation.

 

Karlos and Gillislee had similar stats. Ergo, the same.

 

Right.

Edited April 19, 2017 by BillsVet