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Source: Bills Still Deciding on Watkins' 5th Year Option

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5th Year Option on Sammy  

347 members have voted

  1. 1. Should the Bills Exercise Sammy's 5th Year Option

    • Yes. No Brainer
      305
    • No. Too Injury Prone
      42

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C.Biscuit97 Hall of Famer

C.Biscuit97

Posted
Posted

 

IMO, not having a great QB is no reason to let a great player walk out the door.

 

Keep the great ones!

Yeah, because you don't have a great qb, you should potentially let a great wr walk? It's not about just one year. If you draft a young qb, he would do much better walking into a situation with Sammy than without him.

 

Side note. I'm 6'1" 205 lbs and believe I'm in pretty good shape. I've been into Sammy a few times when I've been out in Buffalo. He is every inch of 6'1" and might be taller. And he's a thick dude who doesn't really even look like a receiver. I'm bigger than Darby and it is pretty clear that Sammy can physically dominate cbs.

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Kirby Jackson Hall of Famer

Kirby Jackson

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Yeah, because you don't have a great qb, you should potentially let a great wr walk? It's not about just one year. If you draft a young qb, he would do much better walking into a situation with Sammy than without him.

 

Side note. I'm 6'1" 205 lbs and believe I'm in pretty good shape. I've been into Sammy a few times when I've been out in Buffalo. He is every inch of 6'1" and might be taller. And he's a thick dude who doesn't really even look like a receiver. I'm bigger than Darby and it is pretty clear that Sammy can physically dominate cbs.

I thought about it the other day and no one ever says "our pass rush stinks so let's not get good corners" or "the DBs stink so don't bother to rush the passer." You hear it all of the time with pass catchers. The reality is you should get as many good players as you can at as many positions as possible.
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C.Biscuit97 Hall of Famer

C.Biscuit97

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I thought about it the other day and no one ever says "our pass rush stinks so let's not get good corners" or "the DBs stink so don't bother to rush the passer." You hear it all of the time with pass catchers. The reality is you should get as many good players as you can at as many positions as possible.

Yeah, it blows my mind. You can't build a roster with only one year in mind.

 

But that's why I don't want to draft a receiver high. You keep Sammy and then bring a few receivers in the draft. If you have Sammy, Holmes, Clay, and a few guys in the draft (say my guys OJ Howard, Josh Reynolds, & another wr), that's a very solid group. Especially for a team that doesn't throw a lot. JMO.

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Kirby Jackson Hall of Famer

Kirby Jackson

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Yeah, it blows my mind. You can't build a roster with only one year in mind.

 

But that's why I don't want to draft a receiver high. You keep Sammy and then bring a few receivers in the draft. If you have Sammy, Holmes, Clay, and a few guys in the draft (say my guys OJ Howard, Josh Reynolds, & another wr), that's a very solid group. Especially for a team that doesn't throw a lot. JMO.

I think that is fair. It makes total sense. Part of the appeal of Howard is his impact on the run game as well. That would have the makings of a nice offense.
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C.Biscuit97 Hall of Famer

C.Biscuit97

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I think that is fair. It makes total sense. Part of the appeal of Howard is his impact on the run game as well. That would have the makings of a nice offense.

Exactly. That's why I love OJ too and would prefer him over a wr. Dual threat and every team should have good 2 TEs. So much versatility.

 

And I think Holmes was a good pickup. He just got replaced by 2 really good WRs. While you can do better than him, he is a good #2 or #3 for what our team does.

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BuffaloBillsGospel Veteran

BuffaloBillsGospel

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To me it's not Sammy's fault GM Doug Whaley traded up to get him, I loved the trade when it happened, now in hindsight I see it wasn't a great idea but at the time he was the consensus best WR in the draft, to be fair the last regime really handcuffed Tyrod also but it looks like were gearing up for another run heavy season also so who knows, I think Sammy can be great but kind of worthless in a run first offense, how can we not be thinking 5th year option though? What is the plan other than drafting a WR at 10 to replace him? My problem is there just never seems to be a plan in place, hopefully this will change with McDermott since he says himself how methodical he is about approaching everything.

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3rdand12 Hall of Famer

3rdand12

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I think that is fair. It makes total sense. Part of the appeal of Howard is his impact on the run game as well. That would have the makings of a nice offense.

Howard picked by the Bills seems a nice fit.

But perhaps there will be a line to get him as he could help many teams

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Bill_with_it Veteran

Bill_with_it

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..in my view, ANY General Manager the woefully fails to predict injury to any one of his draft choices should be fired on the spot...he should be cited for incompetence and dereliction of duty...it is that simple,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Nope but banking on an oft injured wr that hasnt shown his body has the propensity to be healthy enough for his team to benefit from him beingnon the team and handing him a fully guaranteed check in the way of an option when there are other options available is dereliction of duty.
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Kirby Jackson Hall of Famer

Kirby Jackson

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Posted (edited)

Nope but banking on an oft injured wr that hasnt shown his body has the propensity to be healthy enough for his team to benefit from him beingnon the team and handing him a fully guaranteed check in the way of an option when there are other options available is dereliction of duty.

So your options are guarantee $13M by May 2nd, tag him next year (think it's $16M guaranteed) or let him walk. Edited by Kirby Jackson
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OldTimeAFLGuy Hall of Famer

OldTimeAFLGuy

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Posted (edited)

..one of the collegiate expert analyticals would have to chime in with a comparative analysis of Sammy versus Julio Jones in college.......Dimitrof gave up a boatload to land Julio......how does what he gave up versus what he got in return as far as a player who has been relatively injury free versus what Whaley gave up for Sammy, with unforeseen and unpredictable injuries compare at the end of the day??...

Edited by OldTimeAFLGuy
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Bill_with_it Veteran

Bill_with_it

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So your options are guarantee $13M by May 2nd, tag him next year (think it's $16M guaranteed) or let him walk.

My mind is telling me to pass on the option. If hes can produce as well as everyone thinking he can and remain healthy enough to benefit the team on the field, hes foing to coat us regardless. So tag him next year (not guaranteed for injury), vice giving him 13 mil fully guaranteed, let his play and body do the talking. Best case scenario for all involved its an extra 3 mil (sammy produces), worst case Sammy folds up and we can reclaim some money so we dont have Justin Hunter as our number one the rest of the year. Either way its a one year rental with an ability to extend. Only difference is one optionnis guaranteed against injury the other isnt. With Sammys injury history im much more in the wait and see mode versus outting us in undue cap hell for someone that might not be able to produce.
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C.Biscuit97 Hall of Famer

C.Biscuit97

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Posted

..one of the collegiate expert analyticals would have to chime in with a comparative analysis of Sammy versus Julio Jones in college.......Dimitrof gave up a boatload to land Julio......how does what he gave up versus what he got in return as far as a player who has been relatively injury free versus what Whaley gave up for Sammy, with unforeseen and unpredictable injuries compare at the end of the day??...

I'm far from a college expert but Sammy was an absolute animal in college. He far outproduced Jones.

 

http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/sammy-watkins-1.html

 

http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/julio-jones-1.html

 

Julio has the edge in physical skills however. But Sammy was really, really good as a receiver prospect along the lines of Julio and AJ green.

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BarleyNY All Pro

BarleyNY

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Posted

Seems like a no-brainer to me.

 

What would WR corps look like without Sammy Watkins right now?

 

Pretty darn simple, unless, of course, they are working on a long term deal.

Picking up his 5th year option would not preclude him signing a LTD. He is eligible to sign a LTD now. Players have to complete their 3rd league year before doing so and he's done that. Also of note: the option is guaranteed for injury only and may be rescinded up until the first day of the league year of the option. That's a day in early March 2018 for Watkins. No reason not to pick it up now. As I mentioned earlier, it doesn't make sense to do a LTD for him yet though.

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njbuff All Pro

njbuff

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Posted

Picking up his 5th year option would not preclude him signing a LTD. He is eligible to sign a LTD now. Players have to complete their 3rd league year before doing so and he's done that. Also of note: the option is guaranteed for injury only and may be rescinded up until the first day of the league year of the option. That's a day in early March 2018 for Watkins. No reason not to pick it up now. As I mentioned earlier, it doesn't make sense to do a LTD for him yet though.

 

Then this is a story about nothing with what you said here.

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Kirby Jackson Hall of Famer

Kirby Jackson

Posted
Posted (edited)

My mind is telling me to pass on the option. If hes can produce as well as everyone thinking he can and remain healthy enough to benefit the team on the field, hes foing to coat us regardless. So tag him next year (not guaranteed for injury), vice giving him 13 mil fully guaranteed, let his play and body do the talking. Best case scenario for all involved its an extra 3 mil (sammy produces), worst case Sammy folds up and we can reclaim some money so we dont have Justin Hunter as our number one the rest of the year. Either way its a one year rental with an ability to extend. Only difference is one optionnis guaranteed against injury the other isnt. With Sammys injury history im much more in the wait and see mode versus outting us in undue cap hell for someone that might not be able to produce.

We keep going trough this but it IS guaranteed for a football related injury (which his is). It's a pre-existing condition. That clause is for JPP scenarios.

Or decline the option but try and work out a long term with him which I believe they are now allowed to do?

I'm not sure. I think that would be new if so. Is that what happened with Watt? that's the best case scenario if possible. Edited by Kirby Jackson
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NoSaint Hall of Famer

NoSaint

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You made a holistic declaration that was untrue as you have evey time I have interacted with you. Its in the rule book. If the bills were against the cap they could take it to arbitration hence the money isnt guaranteed. You explained nothing you reached by using one of the most obscure stats that you came up with that isnt a stat that determines a wrs worth. If it was then Jordi nelson, Malcom Floyd, Marquise Colston, Vincent Jackson, and Henry Allard would have been paid top money. They havent because GMs dont recognize that stat as an indication of worth.

Didn't Jackson get a tag and then an 11m+ deal making him a top 3-4(?) paid WR at the time?

 

Jordy Nelson was at least edge of top ten when inking his as was colston I think

..one of the collegiate expert analyticals would have to chime in with a comparative analysis of Sammy versus Julio Jones in college.......Dimitrof gave up a boatload to land Julio......how does what he gave up versus what he got in return as far as a player who has been relatively injury free versus what Whaley gave up for Sammy, with unforeseen and unpredictable injuries compare at the end of the day??...

There injuries have been eerily similar honestly so it's odd you'd call one a concern and one reliable

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BarleyNY All Pro

BarleyNY

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Posted

Then this is a story about nothing with what you said here.

That's about exactly how I feel. The more intriguing aspect of the situation is what the Bills should be doing to make him successful enough that he earns the deal he wants and sticks around here.

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San-O Veteran

San-O

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Posted

If they let Gilmore walk and decline Sammy's option only to take WR #10 and CB in round 2 that would be so Bills.

 

 

Gilmore had as many horrible games as he had great games last year...

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HT02 RFA

HT02

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Posted

Anyone that considers Sammy Watkins a Top 5-10 receiver in this league is a true homer. At some point, the guy has to prove he can stay on the field before being put in that category.

 

He played 13 games in 2015. He played only 8 games last year, contributing a whopping 430 yards and 2 touchdowns.

And he will likely miss training camp once again recovering from foot surgery.

 

With that said, the Bills only have a few weeks (May 2) to make the decision. And at this point, they have very little to lose by granting his option.

But if the trend continues, I certainly wouldn't be extending the guy after his contract is up.

That was my thought when I initially read to 5-10 receiver but when you think about it could you name 10 guys you take over him for next year if you were able to sign anyone? I think Julio Jones, Antonio Brown, Beckham jr, Jordy Nelson Mike Williams come to mind but after that its hard to come up with many guys who I'd rather have at WR

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TSOL Veteran

TSOL

Posted
Posted (edited)

Does it really need to be a top 10 qb.....a top 12 wouldnt do....or a top 15?

 

 

How about a top 13?

A guy that can hit him in his hands consistently, in stride, anywheres on the field.

 

6-8 times a game. Not 3-4.

 

They could pay a receiver 8 million a year for 3-4 catches, dont have to pay 14 for that kind of production.

Edited by Lex Lyon
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8-8 Forever? Veteran

8-8 Forever?

Posted
Posted (edited)

I'd not sign him after 5

believe me, he ain't staying after 5 in any event. forget about Watkins after his rookie contract is up. his agent will get him outta here, a la Gilmore, Peters and all before him

 

Bills are nothing but a AAA farm team for the rest of the league. Development team. We develop our top rookies for eventual insertion into the real franchises... it has happened too many times for it not to be a legit viewpoint. Without the draft trapping a certain amount of top talent for 4 or 5 years , the Bills wouldn't have much of a team at all

Edited by jmcraig44
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Kirby Jackson Hall of Famer

Kirby Jackson

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Posted

believe me, he ain't staying after 5 in any event. forget about Watkins after his rookie contract is up. his agent will get him outta here, a la Gilmore, Peters and all before him

 

Bills are nothing but a AAA farm team for the rest of the league. Development team. We develop our top rookies for eventual insertion into the real franchises... it has happened too many times for it not to be a legit viewpoint. Without the draft trapping a certain amount of top talent for 4 or 5 years , the Bills wouldn't have much of a team at all

Really? I can't remember a guy that the Bills lost because someone wanted to go elsewhere. The Bills aren't losing guys like Gilmore because their agents forced them out. They lost him because the Pats guaranteed him $40,000,000.

 

There are some contracts that they didn't offer as much as Byrd, Gilmore, Hogan and Zach Brown. There are some others that they chose not to keep, Spiller, Chandler, EJ, and Fitz come to mind. The assertion that they are losing talent left and right as a farm system is wrong. They have done what every single team in the league does, apply a value to a player and if they can come to terms they sign them. This Buffalo inferitoy complex has got to stop. Guys are going to play where the best contract and opportunity is. I thought we were beyond this once Mario Williams signed?

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Bill from NYC Hall of Famer

Bill from NYC

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Posted

I'm far from a college expert but Sammy was an absolute animal in college. He far outproduced Jones.

 

http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/sammy-watkins-1.html

 

http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/julio-jones-1.html

 

Julio has the edge in physical skills however. But Sammy was really, really good as a receiver prospect along the lines of Julio and AJ green.

Other than Derrick Henry, not too many Crimson Tide players are going to put up gigantic numbers because there is just so much talent there. Coaches have room to call plays to any number of gifted players on every down.

 

I saw every game Jones played in college and he was great the second he walked on the field. As you say, his physical skills are unreal. Do you see how high he can get to catch a football? And do keep your eye on Amari Cooper as well. It wouldn't surprise me if he turns out to be as good as Jones.

 

Watkins has amazing talent. He really can get open. I have no problem with a healthy Watkins but I'm not so sure I would consider him as good as Jones.

 

Jmo.

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thebandit27 Hall of Famer

thebandit27

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Posted

believe me, he ain't staying after 5 in any event. forget about Watkins after his rookie contract is up. his agent will get him outta here, a la Gilmore, Peters and all before him

 

Bills are nothing but a AAA farm team for the rest of the league. Development team. We develop our top rookies for eventual insertion into the real franchises... it has happened too many times for it not to be a legit viewpoint. Without the draft trapping a certain amount of top talent for 4 or 5 years , the Bills wouldn't have much of a team at all

Why don't you provide a list of players that corroborates your stance.

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GunnerBill Hall of Famer

GunnerBill

Posted
Posted (edited)

Why don't you provide a list of players that corroborates your stance.

Peters 2008

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Maybe, at a stretch considering the point he is making, Gilmore 2017.

 

Happens all the time and so is a "legitimate" point of view.

 

Wake me up when he backs down.

Edited by GunnerBill
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