cba fan Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 (edited) Found a great site. https://overthecap.com/compensatory-draft-picks-cancellation-chart/ As you will see the Justin Hunter signing we had counting as a FA loss for compensatory picks. But just a completely Billsy thing to happen is, he is one, One!!! spot off from counting as a loss in the calculations. You must rank 977 or better and he ranks 978. EJ manual we had also thought would count and he is further down yet. Edited March 24, 2017 by cba fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 Well, not the end of the world but unfortunate... even if hunter counted we'd still be negative. Would be real billsy if that's what cost us a 3rd for Gilmore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mead107 Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 Who cares Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigdaddyinOrlando Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 Who cares I agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 Jesus !@#$ing Christ. Search !@#$ing function Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilcoam Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 Of course, why would the average Bills want a 2018 3rd round compensation pick from the league for losing Gilmore and or 2018 4th round compensation for losing Woods? Apparently we are better off without the compensation Afterall these high profile FA's signings like Holmes, Ducasse, Poyer, and Davis, will turn out to be better long term finds for our Bills Than say lousy future 3rd and 4th round picks And we're elated to be shelling out million dollar to 3 million per year contacts instead of say fixed $500K one's Shall we all do a happy dance? jc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juice_32 Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 Of course, why would the average Bills want a 2018 3rd round compensation pick from the league for losing Gilmore and or 2018 4th round compensation for losing Woods? Apparently we are better off without the compensation Afterall these high profile FA's signings like Holmes, Ducasse, Poyer, and Davis, will turn out to be better long term finds for our Bills Than say lousy future 3rd and 4th round picks And we're elated to be shelling out million dollar to 3 million per year contacts instead of say fixed $500K one's Shall we all do a happy dance? jc I can't believe Whaley didn't ask the comish for more draft picks this year. That would have been a way better way to fill out the roster for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Muellers Ghost Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 Because the average Bills fan would rather jump through a table then think about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronxbomber21 Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 I guess losing Zach Brown wouldn't make a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Muellers Ghost Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 Felton signing elsewhere will put them over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pbomb Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 Still got til may 9th, after the draft there will be more free agent pickups to fill holes. Bills still got some decent fa out there hopefully they start to get signed, if not its not the end of the world Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.Y. Orangeman Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 Still got til may 9th, after the draft there will be more free agent pickups to fill holes. Bills still got some decent fa out there hopefully they start to get signed, if not its not the end of the world Not the end of the world, but really dumb, like the posts from those who don't understand that compensation system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 Not sure why they consider Manuel and Hunter to be non-qualifying UFA's. Spotrac has then as UFA's. And contract size and player performance matter as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonborn10 Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 The formula is a NFL secret so not sure I believe Hunter and Manuel dont cpunt. Also not sure the dead Ine is May 9th. I've read they count right up until training camp. Also what if EJ plays 5 games next year because Carr has a set back. I still think it is too early to tell. People should care but it is not the end of the world if they dont get an extra pick. I want to win now not worry about 2018 draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 Actually I can see how Hunter might not count, since the Bills picked him up mid-season (which is also the reason Michael Floyd wouldn't count for the Cheaters). As for EJ, I suppose that a player who doesn't have his option picked-up could be considered to "cut" and thus not count, but I'm not buying it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlgarsh Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 Didn't Hunter score 4 TDs? That alone should make him rank higher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 Actually I can see how Hunter might not count, since the Bills picked him up mid-season (which is also the reason Michael Floyd wouldn't count for the Cheaters). As for EJ, I suppose that a player who doesn't have his option picked-up could be considered to "cut" and thus not count, but I'm not buying it. That might be it. An untendered RFA doesn't count either I believe because you chose to relinquish his rights Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
What a Tuel Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 (edited) Of course, why would the average Bills want a 2018 3rd round compensation pick from the league for losing Gilmore and or 2018 4th round compensation for losing Woods? Apparently we are better off without the compensation Afterall these high profile FA's signings like Holmes, Ducasse, Poyer, and Davis, will turn out to be better long term finds for our Bills Than say lousy future 3rd and 4th round picks And we're elated to be shelling out million dollar to 3 million per year contacts instead of say fixed $500K one's Shall we all do a happy dance? jc All those high profile 3rd and 4th round draft picks am I right?? Let's miss out on free agency every year so we can get mid round draft picks the next year. That'll make the upcoming season awesome. Get a grip guys. Edited March 25, 2017 by What a Tuel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 All those high profile 3rd and 4th round draft picks am I right?? Let's miss out on free agency every year so we can get mid round draft picks the next year. That'll make the upcoming season awesome. Get a grip guys. A lot of free agents can be 6 of one or half dozen of the other - so if you sign guys that don't qualify in FA or come training camp let ties go to keeping an expiring contract suddenly you can be just as active but also get free picks!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QCity Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 All those high profile 3rd and 4th round draft picks am I right?? Let's miss out on free agency every year so we can get mid round draft picks the next year. That'll make the upcoming season awesome. Get a grip guys. You can still pick up free agents and get compensatory picks every year. Well, the smart front offices can, which eliminates us. The same posters here that think this is just about comp picks are the same people that start the "Is the stadium built on a cursed burial ground??" posts every December. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsGospel Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 People can blow this off, most don't understand that the great teams use this system to help build the roster, The Ravens and Pats work the compensatory picks like nobodies business and they've won SB's, not saying because of some 3rd or 4th rounder but every little bit helps. Of course I'd rather resign player X but if not then getting compensated at least something lessons the blow at least a little bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmart128 Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 I dont understand... people want comp picks but that would mean not having a complete team for 2017... do you people wanna sign 30 UDFAs and have to fill tje roster with them? We have a ton of openinings, 6 draft picks, and little cap space (for the openings we have). We gotta fill the roster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
What a Tuel Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 (edited) A lot of free agents can be 6 of one or half dozen of the other - so if you sign guys that don't qualify in FA or come training camp let ties go to keeping an expiring contract suddenly you can be just as active but also get free picks!! I get it, but my point is that you shouldn't miss perceived opportunities in free agency for the potential or prospect of a mid round draft pick more than a year later. Additionally, while an extra 3rd or 4th round pick could help a little, the truth is they don't stick around long on average, so I think it's safe to say that this isn't the Bills secret issue that they need to wise up to. I'd chalk up not making the playoffs being due to burial grounds more than comp picks. Chart is from 2014 but it gets the point across. Edited March 25, 2017 by What a Tuel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilcoam Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 (edited) Is this what it's getting to? Celebrating comp picks as we let FAs walk? Sad. Actually Scott, we can't even celebrate getting the picks, DW first let the free agents walk Then when the NFL offered compensation, he said we don't need em He took his cue from the average Bills fan They told him signing depth at 1M - 3M per season to fill out the roster in 2017 Was more important than free high draft picks at $500K between 2018 and 2022 Go figure... That being said I have no issue not getting comp picks if we actually went out and signed great FA talent To replace the talent we lost Did we? Nope And will these FA signings result in a minimum 10-11 win season with this FA crop? Doubt it So we don't make the playoffs in 2017 and we don't get the free comp picks in 2018 Great plan jc Edited March 25, 2017 by wilcoam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmart128 Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 People can blow this off, most don't understand that the great teams use this system to help build the roster, The Ravens and Pats work the compensatory picks like nobodies business and they've won SB's, not saying because of some 3rd or 4th rounder but every little bit helps. Of course I'd rather resign player X but if not then getting compensated at least something lessons the blow at least a little bit. While it is good for a tea if they can build this way... its not for us at this point. The difference between us and Pats is they can afford to not build through free agency. They have Brady and Bill. They will be good no matter how bad their roster is. They just won the superbowl with a less than stellar roster. We dont have that luxury. They didnt win because they had comp picks... they won because they had Brady and Belicheck that can win in spite of a bad roster. We gotta actually build a complete roster (something we dont have cause all the free agents we had) and win before we can use this strategy to stay ahead. Pats didnt use this strategy to get ahead. Bill and Brady go them ahead. And they used Comp picks to help keep them ahead when they lost key players but Bill and Brady was always a constant they could rely on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QCity Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 We have a ton of openings, 6 draft picks, and little cap space (for the openings we have). We gotta fill the roster You're correct. High roster churn, low number of draft picks, and minimal cap space are all the result of trying to build a team through free agency. You simply cannot sustain a competitive roster with this approach in today's game. It's the wrong approach, philosophy, business plan - whatever you want to call it. Those of us that chide Whaley for this don't just "want more comp picks." We want a GM that understands that you have to build through the draft, and one that knows how to manipulate and take advantage of the current system. Getting 6 draft picks in the first 4 rounds is a ridiculously huge competitive advantage for the teams smart enough to exploit it year in and year out. And no, this doesn't mean you cannot be aggressive in free agency. Our pals the Patriots put on a crazy free agent fireworks display this offseason. Would anyone disagree? And yet there they are, still in position to get 1 comp pick next year. Based on Sheard's $8.5M APY, it could be a 3rd, but will probably be no lower than a 4th. In our case, comp picks are just the symptom of a much, much larger problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 I am not going to worry for now because I am 100% convinced that some of the dumpster dive FAs we just signed won't make the roster. Let's reconsider who might or might not count in September. Not saying it is a worthless topic just too many moving pieces right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KGun12TD Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 So, you're saying we should worry about comp picks and Not try to make the team better? Ok! Got it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 That might be it. An untendered RFA doesn't count either I believe because you chose to relinquish his rights A RFA by definition cannot be an UFA since he's not a vested veteran. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 A RFA by definition cannot be an UFA since he's not a vested veteran. Once untendered he's unrestricted in free agency based on his fully expired contract. The restriction on him is that the team can tender him. So, you're saying we should worry about comp picks and Not try to make the team better? Ok! Got it. So you're saying that you don't understand discussions about potentially maximizing that improvement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r00tabaga Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 So, you're saying we should worry about comp picks and Not try to make the team better? Ok! Got it. I don't get it either. I thought this was a joke weeks ago but apparently it's real. People are REALLY freaking out about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manther Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 Well, not the end of the world but unfortunate... even if hunter counted we'd still be negative. Would be real billsy if that's what cost us a 3rd for Gilmore If Hunter and Manuel don't count I would think that some of the guys we signed were rated further down than 997 too? People can blow this off, most don't understand that the great teams use this system to help build the roster, The Ravens and Pats work the compensatory picks like nobodies business and they've won SB's, not saying because of some 3rd or 4th rounder but every little bit helps. Of course I'd rather resign player X but if not then getting compensated at least something lessons the blow at least a little bit. I agree great teams get comp picks. But, that is because years of good drafting and developing talent. Comp picks are a product of having a great organization. A poor organization or less than great can't focus on comp picks. I believe we are closer to that than years ago. The Bills, currently, need to focus on drafting good players and developing them (the means to a good organization) and then a good organization will follow (and comp picks too). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 There really should be a better way of doing it. IMHO, there needs to be a way to factor in a player's draft round/performance in this. Losing Stephon Gilmore should not be cancelled out by signing Andre Holmes. Maybe 1st round picks count for 7 points with each round further down a player was drafted counting one less,ending up at 1 for round 7/UFA players. Then factor in their performance and subtract/add to this up to a max of 10. So maybe Gilmore counts for 8 points and Woods counts for 5 or 6, etc. This would be more accurate than just cancelling players out. Or perhaps do it by adding up average contracts a player you lose receives in FA and the contracts the players you bring in receive. But it would have to be done in a way where it took the whole contract and averaged it to avoid funky accounting methods for teams trying to work the system. Either way, I don't believe the current system accurately portrays teams losses/gains during FA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rigotz Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 It's very frustrating that so many Bills fans don't understand the value of compensatory draft picks. Let me make this very simple for you. Brandon Marshall was traded for a 5th round pick. Marshawn Lynch was traded for a 4th and 6th. Randy Moss was traded for a 4th round pick. Anquan Bolden was traded for a 3rd round pick. Greg Olsen was traded for a 3rd round pick. If you would rather have Vladimir Ducasse and Patrick DeMarco, cool. You can wait until after May 9th to sign those guys or wait for June 1st cuts or actively try to sign cut players and STILL GET YOUR 3RD AND 4TH ROUND COMP PICKS. Our front office (and apparently fans) are just too dumb to understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elite Poster Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 People would rather have a decent player that lives out one contract on the cheap instead of someone who can actually make a difference as a known commodity. It's very frustrating that so many Bills fans don't understand the value of compensatory draft picks. Let me make this very simple for you. Brandon Marshall was traded for a 5th round pick. Marshawn Lynch was traded for a 4th and 6th. Randy Moss was traded for a 4th round pick. Anquan Bolden was traded for a 3rd round pick. Greg Olsen was traded for a 3rd round pick. If you would rather have Vladimir Ducasse and Patrick DeMarco, cool. You can wait until after May 9th to sign those guys or wait for June 1st cuts or actively try to sign cut players and STILL GET YOUR 3RD AND 4TH ROUND COMP PICKS. Our front office (and apparently fans) are just too dumb to understand. The only one that was robbery was a 3rd for Lynch. Classic Buffalo running a great player out of town. So how many championships the rest of those guys have? I must be pretty dumb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real McClappy Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 What's is with all the comp pick drama on this site? You have to field competition not scrubs. Would most here rather field a bunch of scrub players and let all our good free agents leave for a comp pick that might just be another scrub as well? I don't get it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Billieve Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 So we get comp pick now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillnutinHouston Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 What's is with all the comp pick drama on this site? The drama comes from fans who want comp pick calculations to drive our strategy. Yes, DRIVE our strategy. Let that sink in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 It's very frustrating that so many Bills fans don't understand the value of compensatory draft picks. Let me make this very simple for you. Brandon Marshall was traded for a 5th round pick. Marshawn Lynch was traded for a 4th and 6th. Randy Moss was traded for a 4th round pick. Anquan Bolden was traded for a 3rd round pick. Greg Olsen was traded for a 3rd round pick. If you would rather have Vladimir Ducasse and Patrick DeMarco, cool. You can wait until after May 9th to sign those guys or wait for June 1st cuts or actively try to sign cut players and STILL GET YOUR 3RD AND 4TH ROUND COMP PICKS. Our front office (and apparently fans) are just too dumb to understand. You can't trade a comp pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 You can't trade a comp pick. You can now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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