Ryan Groy Signed to an Offer Sheet by Rams

[Wayne Cubed]

Dude, it doesn't matter if they would or wouldn't have. There's no reason not to take advantage if someone ends up wanting him that bad. We have to pay the same amount to keep him either way.

 

No the Bills don't have to pay the same amount anyways.

 

Obviously you aren't understanding that the Bills could use the RFA tender to sign Groy for 2 years, not 1. And he's a backup C/G, you sign him to a 2nd round tender his camp believes he's a starter and therefore negotiates as such. It hasn't been determined yet, if he is in fact a starter. The Bills are unlikely to cut Wood this offseason considering his $4.3m dead cap hit. So you'd be paying Groy $2.6m to be a backup for '17.

[Doc]

That's almost exactly what the second round tender value is. Do you guys even know the basics of what you're trying to debate?

 

I don't give a **** about Groy. I give a **** about our GM making the same mistake two years in a row after getting burned so badly the first time. Clearly, this year isn't as bad, but we shouldn't even be in this situation again.

 

The 2nd round tender is $2.746M. The Bills would have had him for one year and then he would have been an UFA. The offer he got from the Rams is 2-years and $5M. That's $2.5M for this year, plus the same amount for next year. So not only did they save about $250K, they also have him for another year instead of losing him to FA for possibly much more if he plays well again.

[BuffaloRebound]

This is a win by Whaley anyway you look at it. Player founds out his true value, and you get him for 2 years not 1 at what would've been a round 2 tender

[MPT]

No the Bills don't have to pay the same amount anyways.

 

Obviously you aren't understanding that the Bills could use the RFA tender to sign Groy for 2 years, not 1. And he's a backup C/G, you sign him to a 2nd round tender his camp believes he's a starter and therefore negotiates as such. It hasn't been determined yet, if he is in fact a starter. The Bills are unlikely to cut Wood this offseason considering his $4.3m dead cap hit. So you'd be paying Groy $2.6m to be a backup for '17.

Which we'll be doing anyway if we decide to keep him. And if we don't want to pay that, we get nothing instead of a 2nd round pick. I realize Wood's cap hit is prohibitive to paying Groy more than a typical backup, but the odds of Groy becoming a starter (again) in the next two years are too good to pay him as a typical backup.

[34-78-83]

How did Groy play in the final game vs the Jets, when the Jets were facing a non-weird and mostly pocket qb? My recollection is not well, and that might be a sign that playing in front of a qb like Taylor masked the reasons why he went undrafted. My memory might be faulty, however.

You are correct, good mention. While Groy is an above average run blocker, he is not a good pass protector, which was masked by our Qb's mobility.

[Wayne Cubed]

Which we'll be doing anyway if we decide to keep him. And if we don't want to pay that, we get nothing instead of a 2nd round pick. I realize Wood's cap hit is prohibitive to paying Groy more than a typical backup, but the odds of Groy becoming a starter (again) in the next two years are too good to pay him as a typical backup.

Well actually if the Bills do decide to match they'll pay him as a backup for '17 AND get him for '18 to be a starter, if the Bills let Woods' contract run out, at backup G/C money. Do you not understand that? In your scenario the Bills only get his services for '17, as a backup.

[BADOLBILZ]

How did Groy play in the final game vs the Jets, when the Jets were facing a non-weird and mostly pocket qb? My recollection is not well, and that might be a sign that playing in front of a qb like Taylor masked the reasons why he went undrafted. My memory might be faulty, however.

 

 

 

The same point can be made wrt Eric Wood........he was pretty lousy in 2013 and 2014.....even he thought he was going to get cut.......then Tyrod appears and.....whaddya' know, he looks decent again.

 

A couple other things:

 

1) Patrick Lewis was the starting center for a Seattle team that went on a strong late season run in 2015......that seemed like a good pickup at the time.......so perhaps Groy doesn't get matched?

 

2) If he is cut then it's possible that the Rams will pursue Eric Wood.......remember when Buddy Nix claimed that he got Dallas to cut Scott Chandler by trying to claim Martin Rucker?

 

I hope they retain Groy.......I like his size and I think he has more upside than Wood at this point.

 

Regardless........this is still not a good pass blocking OL........they are propped up greatly by the presence of Taylor.

[GG]

You are correct, good mention. While Groy is an above average run blocker, he is not a good pass protector, which was masked by our Qb's mobility.

 

Watch the tape of that game. He more than held his own in passing downs against the very good Jets interior DLs

[Bill from NYC]

You are correct, good mention. While Groy is an above average run blocker, he is not a good pass protector, which was masked by our Qb's mobility.

I say the same thing about Miller. I read here a while ago that someone called him the most improved player or something of the sort. I don't think Miller is good at all against the pass. He's only 6'2" and a little light in the ass imo.

[JMF2006]

All the Bills have to do is match it and his rights are retained.

 

People say Whaley was dumb for not tagging him higher.

 

Well just maybe they talked with Groy and his agent and they wanted X amount of $$ long term so the Bills said ok we will RFA tag you and you can check out the market and if its a great deal your free but if its affordable we will match it.

 

We don't know we can only assume and you know what happens when you assume;)

[thebandit27]

 

 

 

The same point can be made wrt Eric Wood........he was pretty lousy in 2013 and 2014.....even he thought he was going to get cut.......then Tyrod appears and.....whaddya' know, he looks decent again.

 

A couple other things:

 

1) Patrick Lewis was the starting center for a Seattle team that went on a strong late season run in 2015......that seemed like a good pickup at the time.......so perhaps Groy doesn't get matched?

 

2) If he is cut then it's possible that the Rams will pursue Eric Wood.......remember when Buddy Nix claimed that he got Dallas to cut Scott Chandler by trying to claim Martin Rucker?

 

I hope they retain Groy.......I like his size and I think he has more upside than Wood at this point.

 

Regardless........this is still not a good pass blocking OL........they are propped up greatly by the presence of Taylor.

 

I think there's a bit of give/take with Taylor at QB.

 

He's very good at avoiding pressure; at the same time, he creates a good number of bad situations for himself with shoddy movement habits in the pocket.

 

I don't know that the bad quite matches the good; merely an observation on part.

[Bill_with_it]

Whaley doesn't learn

Nope like a bad dream that never ends.

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

Kroman and Romer had way more to do with Wood'a improvement than Tyrod imo

[boyst]

Ugh. Just keep him as insurance. He is better going forward than wood.

[Pirate Angel]

I'd like to keep him and release wood or maybe trade him for a RT

[The Jokeman]

That's almost exactly what the second round tender value is. Do you guys even know the basics of what you're trying to debate?

 

I don't give a **** about Groy. I give a **** about our GM making the same mistake two years in a row after getting burned so badly the first time. Clearly, this year isn't as bad, but we shouldn't even be in this situation again.

Odds are the Rams or whomever wouldn't have offered Groy such a lucrative contract if it meant giving up a 2nd Round pick.

[boyst]

I'd like to keep him and release wood or maybe trade him for a RT

wood is too costly to cut. Cap hit of dead $ too big. Wood is trade bait or starts.

 

His mobility may finally suffer. As a pulling center that's his only strong asset run blocking. He is better than groy pass blocking.

[BADOLBILZ]

 

I think there's a bit of give/take with Taylor at QB.

 

He's very good at avoiding pressure; at the same time, he creates a good number of bad situations for himself with shoddy movement habits in the pocket.

 

I don't know that the bad quite matches the good; merely an observation on part.

 

Oh I agree, he caused plenty of sacks by bailing much too soon and that is the confusing part for many........the fact that Taylor takes a lot of statistical sacks.

 

I think close to half of those are actually a result of Taylor either leaving the pocket and/or taking 4+ seconds to throw..........not really natural, pass rusher or blitz caused sacks.......nor the awful kind that result in turnovers or QB injuries.

 

And those sacks are more than worth it because of the big plays that ALSO happen when those same chances are taken.

 

They are really not much different than McCoy's TFL's but statistically more worthwhile (Taylor has a higher ypa rushing and, of course passing the last two seasons than McCoy or MG's ypa rushing).

 

I think you insert a more traditional pocket passer......and if they aren't getting the ball out at a near top-o-the-league quickness rate......... they get sacked and pressured even MORE often with this poor pass blocking group(and the run game gets greatly damaged as well).......AND the sacks they'd be suffering aren't the gentle kind like turtling after a failed scramble or stepping out of bounds 1 yard behind the LOS........they are jarring in-pocket hits and strip sack causing types that change games.

[Formerly Allan in MD]

Keeping Wood might be a big gamble.

Keeping Wood might be a big gamble.

Age, injuries.

[MPT]

Odds are the Rams or whomever wouldn't have offered Groy such a lucrative contract if it meant giving up a 2nd Round pick.

Yeah, a few other people have used this argument as well. Except it doesn't hold any water. If teams don't want to give up a pick, fine: we keep him for the same salary. But if there's a chance a team holds him in high enough regard, we get a 2nd round pick.

 

You know what the odds are of us getting anything in return for him if we don't use that tag? Zero. So, the "odds are" literally infinitely better for us if we do use the tag.

[BuffaloBillsGospel]

I'd keep Groy over Wood at this point, way too many injuries for Wood.

[GG]

wood is too costly to cut. Cap hit of dead $ too big. Wood is trade bait or starts.

 

His mobility may finally suffer. As a pulling center that's his only strong asset run blocking. He is better than groy pass blocking.

 

Dead cap is $3 million less than the carrying value of his contract. I'm guessing that Bills will use the 5 days to either renegotiate Wood's deal, try to trade him to Rams or cut him.

[NewEra]

Well actually if the Bills do decide to match they'll pay him as a backup for '17 AND get him for '18 to be a starter, if the Bills let Woods' contract run out, at backup G/C money. Do you not understand that? In your scenario the Bills only get his services for '17, as a backup.

Save your fingers the unnecessary work. There's no getting through that brick wall

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

The only blunder here is by you and many other weekend warriors who think you understand how to run a football team. When you start offering higher tenders for backups you'll be in salary trouble real fast. Did he play very well, yes, could he replace Woods, yes, but so can others. It's amazing how many are getting bent out of shape and blaming the Bills for losing a backup.

 

Get a grip!

 

 

If it was about money why not cut Lewis and give Groy That extra 800k. I don't understand the thought process behind this blunder. At least with Mike G there's a draft pick.

[boyst]

 

Dead cap is $3 million less than the carrying value of his contract. I'm guessing that Bills will use the 5 days to either renegotiate Wood's deal, try to trade him to Rams or cut him.

I certainly hope so. Wood is a hard swallow with injury #47 and a big contract. He is marquise Goodwin on the ol Edited March 14, 2017 by Boyst62

[MPT]

Well actually if the Bills do decide to match they'll pay him as a backup for '17 AND get him for '18 to be a starter, if the Bills let Woods' contract run out, at backup G/C money. Do you not understand that? In your scenario the Bills only get his services for '17, as a backup.

Of course I understand that. So, if we tender him and no team gives up a pick, we have a solid backup (and future starter) we can negotiate a long term contract with during a year in which he is a backup.

 

Still no downside.

[Logic]

I certainly hope so. Wood is a hard swallow with injury #47 and a big contract. He is marquise Goodwin on the ol

You mean the Eric Wood who, prior to this past season, started 16, 16, 16, and 14 games? Yeah, so often injured!

[Riverboat Richie]

Yeah, a few other people have used this argument as well. Except it doesn't hold any water. If teams don't want to give up a pick, fine: we keep him for the same salary. But if there's a chance a team holds him in high enough regard, we get a 2nd round pick.

 

You know what the odds are of us getting anything in return for him if we don't use that tag? Zero. So, the "odds are" literally infinitely better for us if we do use the tag.

 

This is what people are basically asking you. Which would you rather pay out?

 

2.7 Mil for 1 year.

5.0 Mil for 2 years

[GG]

I certainly hope so. Wood is a hard swallow with injury #47 and a big contract. He is marquise Goodwin on the ol

 

Yup. There's no way Bills are carrying a $7.5 million cap hit on a 30-yr player coming off a big injury. This was the plan all along. Wait until Groy's market value is established, then deal with Wood appropriately.

 

This isn't remotely like the Hogan tender where the Bills' hands were tied.

[Wayne Cubed]

This is what people are basically asking you. Which would you rather pay out?

 

2.7 Mil for 1 year.

5.0 Mil for 2 years

With only $3.5m guaranteed.

[MPT]

The only blunder here is by you and many other weekend warriors who think you understand how to run a football team.

Sorry, I forgot this board was strictly for praising everything the Bills front office has accomplished over the last 17 years.

[Riverboat Richie]

 

Yup. There's no way Bills are carrying a $7.5 million cap hit on a 30-yr player coming off a big injury. This was the plan all along. Wait until Groy's market value is established, then deal with Wood appropriately.

 

This isn't remotely like the Hogan tender where the Bills' hands were tied.

 

Their plan was to expose their future starting center to the rest of the league and hope no one outbids you? If he was their future hope, he would have been a priority signing and Eric Wood would be visiting the Rams.

[thebandit27]

 

Oh I agree, he caused plenty of sacks by bailing much too soon and that is the confusing part for many........the fact that Taylor takes a lot of statistical sacks.

 

I think close to half of those are actually a result of Taylor either leaving the pocket and/or taking 4+ seconds to throw..........not really natural, pass rusher or blitz caused sacks.......nor the awful kind that result in turnovers or QB injuries.

 

And those sacks are more than worth it because of the big plays that ALSO happen when those same chances are taken.

 

They are really not much different than McCoy's TFL's but statistically more worthwhile (Taylor has a higher ypa rushing and, of course passing the last two seasons than McCoy or MG's ypa rushing).

 

I think you insert a more traditional pocket passer......and if they aren't getting the ball out at a near top-o-the-league quickness rate......... they get sacked and pressured even MORE often with this poor pass blocking group(and the run game gets greatly damaged as well).......AND the sacks they'd be suffering aren't the gentle kind like turtling after a failed scramble or stepping out of bounds 1 yard behind the LOS........they are jarring in-pocket hits and strip sack causing types that change games.

 

The run game would definitely suffer.

 

The eventual transition to a pocket-passer is one of the reasons that I think the team needs to get a few mid-round OLmen in the fold to groom. Obviously you don't need a great OL to have a good offense, but you can't go into the season with 2 very obvious weak links in pass protection (I'm speaking of RG and RT--I would call C and LG "passable") if you had a Romo/Ryan type back there.

[Webster Guy]

I'm also surprised by the low tender and I would hate to lose Groy.

 

But I don't know that it's an obvious "blunder." Whaley and McDermott might not think as highly of Groy as those of us questioning the tender.

 

I doubt they evaluated his play last year and said, "We like this guy a lot and see him as a key backup and maybe a future starter at center." If they saw him that way and then lowballed him, they're stupid. But they might have evaluated him and thought, "Meh."

Yup. No other explanation, they simply have him graded as an average dude, not worth the extra 800k. Thanks Kromer, you ended up being more of a pain in the ass to Buffalo than we deserved. Enjoy L.A., you'll love the genuine people and clean air. Weenie.

[BADOLBILZ]

 

The run game would definitely suffer.

 

The eventual transition to a pocket-passer is one of the reasons that I think the team needs to get a few mid-round OLmen in the fold to groom. Obviously you don't need a great OL to have a good offense, but you can't go into the season with 2 very obvious weak links in pass protection (I'm speaking of RG and RT--I would call C and LG "passable") if you had a Romo/Ryan type back there.

 

Don't forget that Incognito is probably in his last year with Buffalo too.

 

Huge cap number in 2018 and old.

 

Keeping Groy would be advisable, IMO.

[BillsfanAZ]

Noboby says much about Whaley picking Groy from the Bucs practice squad who turned out to be good depth at serviceable starter. People just complain Whaley isnt doing a good enough job because he drawing interest from another team. Lets wait to see the end result.

[MPT]

 

This is what people are basically asking you. Which would you rather pay out?

 

2.7 Mil for 1 year or a second round pick.

 

An unknown amount of money for an unknown amount of time.

Option 1. Edited March 14, 2017 by MPT

[GG]

 

Their plan was to expose their future starting center to the rest of the league and hope no one outbids you? If he was their future hope, he would have been a priority signing and Eric Wood would be visiting the Rams.

 

Have you considered the other side of the negotiating table that Groy's agent didn't want to accept Bills long term offer until they saw what the market offers? That's why the Bills protected themselves with the tender and guessing that he wouldn't get a blow out offer. They guessed right. The Rams offer isn't a big deal to match, and now Bills have a bigger decision to make about Wood than they do about Groy.

[Beef Jerky]

Sorry, I forgot this board was strictly for praising everything the Bills front office has accomplished over the last 17 years.

No but this forum also isn't for ignorant fools either...

[BADOLBILZ]

Noboby says much about Whaley picking Groy from the Bucs practice squad who turned out to be good depth at serviceable starter. People just complain Whaley isnt doing a good enough job because he drawing interest from another team. Lets wait to see the end result.

 

 

They shouldn't talk about it much.

 

Whaley has a lot of ground to make up........he stepped into a "hit the ground running" situation being groomed to take over the team and has been an average personnel man as a GM with a bad eye for QB play.