How does this ship get turned around organizationally?

[DCbillsfan]

Pegula needs to give Whaley control of personnel. No more of this consensus stuff. It's not working. If Whaley screws it up get another GM. Keep Brandon away from any coaching hires and player acquisitions.

[Mango]

Pegula needs to give Whaley control of personnel. No more of this consensus stuff. It's not working. If Whaley screws it up get another GM. Keep Brandon away from any coaching hires and player acquisitions.

 

 

This is it. And it was the problem in the Ralph era as well. Be involved, give input, learn as an owner. But ultimately let the professionals do their job

[nucci]

Not to get too in depth with this, but a great coach can decrease the percentage of the QB, but not by enough too change it's importance. The point of my post was to try and put a number on the importance of the QB. Do you think Belichick would take this team to the playoff? I think he could, but he most likely would replace our QB ASAP. I also believe that if Rex had a top 10 PASSING QB this team would be in the playoffs. To defend your opinion I think the days of winning with the run is over, and if Rex cannot change then he should go.

Good points but I'm more concerned with the defense...blowing a 24-9 lead is not all on the offense.....

[BaaadThingsMan]

I don't judge the pegulas on the last 15 years of ralphs Bills. Since they took over the Bills are a .500 organization and this season isn't over so we don't know how it will end yet. IF changes need to be made, I trust the Pegulas to make the right calls and get things heading on a championship path.

[nucci]

I don't judge the pegulas on the last 15 years of ralphs Bills. Since they took over the Bills are a .500 organization and this season isn't over so we don't know how it will end yet. IF changes need to be made, I trust the Pegulas to make the right calls and get things heading on a championship path.

Why?

[BringBackOrton]

Why?

Because we're already seeing the wins pile up with them as owners.

 

Well, offseason wins...

Edited December 8, 2016 by jmc12290

[Fadingpain]

Cool! Get 2 we could use them.

 

 

This is it. And it was the problem in the Ralph era as well. Be involved, give input, learn as an owner. But ultimately let the professionals do their job

I'm in favor of letting the pros do their job, but not Whaley!

 

This is the guy who figured EJ was the answer and then doubled down on stupidity with the Sammy Watkins trade up deal.

 

As I've said 1,000 times on this forum, those 2 factors alone are grounds for immediate dismissal!

 

You just can't be THAT inept as a GM and keep your job.

[BaaadThingsMan]

Why?

smart in business, dedicated to success, short time owning the team but willing to learn. I trust that they will make an "informed" decision next time they make some changes and will get this thing turned around. Again, thats IF needed. This season has yet to play out so alot can happen that could make this all moot.

 

Regardless, going forward I trust them completely for the reasons I stated until given enough reason not to.

Edited December 8, 2016 by BaaadThingsMan

[May Day 10]

You forget how unattractive the job was at that time. They couldn't even get top coaching candidates to schedule an interview. I believe Marrone was seen as an outside the box solution. And he was considered something of a rising star at the time. In retrospect, he seems to have seen the job as a stepping stone to a better job. To all those around here that think the Bills should just go out and hire the top people have to ask themselves why any of them would want to come to this franchise.

While you're there, pick up one of those elite football czars who are clogging the shelves.

The largest part that makes buffalo an unattractive market, is the management structure. You get hired and its not a great place to flourish. There are a lot of people with clout and say. Lots of cooks in the kitchen, and some are bad cooks. It percolated publicly a little bit with the marrone era. He essentially quit (the second HC to do so in a decade). These guys talk.

 

During the offseason of the marrone hire, they could have brought andy reid in, assured him that he would have the keys to the car, and given him the contract.... he would most certainly have considered buffalo.

[C.Biscuit97]

The largest part that makes buffalo an unattractive market, is the management structure. You get hired and its not a great place to flourish. There are a lot of people with clout and say. Lots of cooks in the kitchen, and some are bad cooks. It percolated publicly a little bit with the marrone era. He essentially quit (the second HC to do so in a decade). These guys talk.

 

During the offseason of the marrone hire, they could have brought andy reid in, assured him that he would have the keys to the car, and given him the contract.... he would most certainly have considered buffalo.

Oh please. The first thing coaches and players say when they get here is how awesome the Pegulas are.

 

I do agree on Reid. So underrated.

[Iraq Vet]

Been a fan since I was 13.... (1983). I am starting to lose hope. The Bills can't even get blind luck.... in the draft after all these years or coaches.

[nucci]

smart in business, dedicated to success, short time owning the team but willing to learn. I trust that they will make an "informed" decision next time they make some changes and will get this thing turned around. Again, thats IF needed. This season has yet to play out so alot can happen that could make this all moot.

 

Regardless, going forward I trust them completely for the reasons I stated until given enough reason not to.

all things point to the Pegula's choosing Ryan as HC...I don't have confidence in them. They allowed LaFontaine to choose Ted Nolan as coach

[Big Turk]

How bout stop having multiple players at the same position go down year after year? That might be enough...

 

Last year it was RBs, this year WRs, along with sprinkling in a few other starters it becomes tough to overcome...

 

We have dudes who are playing more plays at WR this year then they will combined for the rest of their careers...

 

I get that there has to be someone to "blame", but honestly we are fielding a team of scrubs at WR and our stud WR in Watkins isn't 100%...looks more like 70% to me, not getting separation like he normally does...

 

We certainly are not having injury luck go our way...

[Nihilarian]

 

The Oakland Raiders say hello. They have a defensive coach with a very, very bad defense. Know the difference? A QB.

It isn't just the QB. The Raiders also have an O-line that has allowed 22 sacks which is about the lowest sack total in the league. They also have some really good receivers and running backs.

 

While the Raider defense might not be in the top 15 stats wise and they are currently ranked 30th. They get the turnovers, stops on third down when needed against even the good teams which is something Buffalo fails to do against good teams. Kinda why the Bills didn't sack Derek Carr. The Raiders have a linebacker that might have been worth two first round picks over a glass WR who can't stay healthy.

[Big Turk]

It isn't just the QB. The Raiders also have an O-line that has allowed 22 sacks which is about the lowest sack total in the league. They also have some really good receivers and running backs.

 

While the Raider defense might not be in the top 15 stats wise and they are currently ranked 30th. They get the turnovers, stops on third down when needed against even the good teams which is something Buffalo fails to do against good teams. Kinda why the Bills didn't sack Derek Carr. The Raiders have a linebacker that might have been worth two first round picks over a glass WR who can't stay healthy.

Julio Jones was a glass WR at one point too...same injury...almost same stats per game through 2 years...how quickly people forget...

 

Now people just call him the best WR in football

Edited December 8, 2016 by matter2003

[26TrapDraw]

Find the right QB.

So much this. Look at Oakland. Without Carr they win 5 games this season.

[26CornerBlitz]

So much this. Look at Oakland. Without Carr they win 5 games this season.

 

Well Matt FN McGloin certainly isn't a playoff caliber QB.

[PatsFanNH]

Break Both Brady's legs and his throwing arm and we are in the thick of things for the division

Nah Jimmy G still lead the Pats to an 11-5 record next year.. you forget that the emperor still there to lead the empire to glory. Lol

 

To turn the Bills around (IMO) starts at the top with the owner, he has to go out and get a true President of football operations who would guide the team down a path for the best 5-10 years. That person would higher HIS GM and change the scouting system to the people who will look for players he likes. This does work wether it be like NE, where BB does it all or say like Denver where Elway pulls all the strings. But that's what the Bills need a man with a plan and the drive to implement it with his people.

[jms62]

I'm in favor of letting the pros do their job, but not Whaley!

 

This is the guy who figured EJ was the answer and then doubled down on stupidity with the Sammy Watkins trade up deal.

 

As I've said 1,000 times on this forum, those 2 factors alone are grounds for immediate dismissal!

 

You just can't be THAT inept as a GM and keep your job.

 

 

Didn't he declare "All in" on EJ.... When I go "All In" at the poker table and am wrong they show me the door and thank me for playing.

Edited December 8, 2016 by jms62

[dpberr]

The Bills on-field performance is the problem. They are well run business in many aspects otherwise. We have the luxury of pretty much focusing on on-field matters as a fan base.

 

They aren't a debt-ridden franchise (Cowboys), don't have significant cash flow problems (Raiders), have issues on where they are going to play next year (Rams, Chargers, Raiders), a lackluster fan base (Jaguars), meddling ownership feuds (Saints, Titans) or nightmarish confluence of many of these things (Browns).

 

The Donahoe experiment scared many in the organization. However, I think for the team to succeed, you need to let your general manager run the entire show. He or she picks the personnel - players and coaching staff.

 

I think the team also needs to find a coach that knows where the NFL is going, not where it's been, not where it is. Successful coaches are always on the cusp of the next big thing in the NFL and we last had it with Levy (K-gun, no huddle) and Phillips (his take on the 3-4, especially in 1995.). Since then we've hired coaches either with coaching strategies that are well known and well schemed or outdated and figured out.

Edited December 8, 2016 by dpberr

[26TrapDraw]

Well Matt FN McGloin certainly isn't a playoff caliber QB.

McGloin and TT are in the same canoe to me neither is a good QB. If we had a qb even resembling Carr's production we'd be 8-4 or 9-3. I realize the cupboard has been bare at WR here but if you are a good QB you make it work. Taylor looked like a deer in headlights last week. Can't have that Garbage

[BaaadThingsMan]

The Bills on-field performance is the problem. They are well run business in many aspects otherwise. We have the luxury of pretty much focusing on on-field matters as a fan base.

 

They aren't a debt-ridden franchise (Cowboys), don't have significant cash flow problems (Raiders), have issues on where they are going to play next year (Rams, Chargers, Raiders), a lackluster fan base (Jaguars), meddling ownership feuds (Saints, Titans) or nightmarish confluence of many of these things (Browns).

 

The Donahoe experiment scared many in the organization. However, I think for the team to succeed, you need to let your general manager run the entire show. He or she picks the personnel - players and coaching staff.

 

I think the team also needs to find a coach that knows where the NFL is going, not where it's been, not where it is. Successful coaches are always on the cusp of the next big thing in the NFL and we last had it with Levy (K-gun, no huddle) and Phillips (his take on the 3-4, especially in 1995.). Since then we've hired coaches either with coaching strategies that are well known and well schemed or outdated and figured out.

good post

[jms62]

The Bills on-field performance is the problem. They are well run business in many aspects otherwise. We have the luxury of pretty much focusing on on-field matters as a fan base.

 

They aren't a debt-ridden franchise (Cowboys), don't have significant cash flow problems (Raiders), have issues on where they are going to play next year (Rams, Chargers, Raiders), a lackluster fan base (Jaguars), meddling ownership feuds (Saints, Titans) or nightmarish confluence of many of these things (Browns).

 

The Donahoe experiment scared many in the organization. However, I think for the team to succeed, you need to let your general manager run the entire show. He or she picks the personnel - players and coaching staff.

 

I think the team also needs to find a coach that knows where the NFL is going, not where it's been, not where it is. Successful coaches are always on the cusp of the next big thing in the NFL and we last had it with Levy (K-gun, no huddle) and Phillips (his take on the 3-4, especially in 1995.). Since then we've hired coaches either with coaching strategies that are well known and well schemed or outdated and figured out.

Best post on this thread so far

[Bills Fan in MD]

Other than the obvious (i.e., find a QB), I don't really know the answer.

 

One thing I do know, however, is that it won't get fixed by the Pegulas bringing in Bill Polian to act as a football overlord.

[Punching Bag]

It's nice of Nix to fall on the sword for EJ. But what were Whaley and his legion of top scouts doing when Russel Wilson was there for the taking for a paltry 3rd round pick? That was a lay up for a team desperate for a QB and Wilson was not some obscure project. Whaley, like Nix, was stuck at "too short"--the dumbest reason to ignore a QB's body of work to that point..

 

Same place all of the other teams were who could have gotten him as well Dr. Hindsight.

[May Day 10]

Current AFC Playoff teams who employ quarterbacks who the Bills had an opportunity to draft/acquire:

New England Patriots

Oakland Raiders

Kansas City Chiefs

Baltimore Ravens

Houston Texans

Denver Broncos

[Augie]

Same place all of the other teams were who could have gotten him as well Dr. Hindsight.

 

Yeah, life is so easy.....in hindsaight. Show me the people who consistently get it right in advance and that's who I want.

[ndirish1978]

Talking about finding a QB is pointless if the same people are the ones trying to find one. Sometimes good GM's make mistakes at the position, but rarely do they have the rope to miss twice.

 

Advocating for keeping Whaley is essentially doing that and whether or not he was behind TT (I suspect he wasn't given his push for EJM). Moving on to another option indicates people don't know what they're doing. EJ started 15 games and proved beyond a shadow of a doubt he's a bust. TT is now 26 games in and at best not improving.

 

I highly doubt the entrenched leadership will want to move on from TT because it proves they're flailing around. So, if your T/K Pegs, do you hand over the 27M and hope he gets better? Or would it be easier to find a new management to make that decision.

 

 

THIS is the reason we haven't moved up in the draft to take a QB since the no playoff streak started. FO with egos refusing to admit they were wrong and disguising it as "continuity". Whaley finds some good bargain basement guys but he clearly has no grasp of how to make a trade, overpaying almost every single time he makes one. That in and of itself is worrying.

 

Also, why can't anyone on this team read a medical report or manage injuries properly? If you sign players with medical conditions (Lawson, Harvin), how is it a surprise when the guy isn't on the field? Why is it after our guys get hurt and come back they always re-aggravate the original condition and wind up playing hobbled? We haven't had the real Sammy for a full year yet, Woods played all year last year hurt and it looks like the same goes for this year. It seems like there is just poor judgement at every level of the team: coaches, medical staff, GM.

[Freddie's Dead]

Current AFC Playoff teams who employ quarterbacks who the Bills had an opportunity to draft/acquire:

New England Patriots

Oakland Raiders

Kansas City Chiefs

Baltimore Ravens

Houston Texans

Denver Broncos

NFC

 

Dallas Cowboys

Seattle Seahawks

Washington Redskins (OK, so they're technically not in yet)

[Fan in San Diego]

 

I think the Pegula's have been talking to outside people [Polian, Coughlin] about which direction they should go in. It should be interesting to see what happens in the offseason once the Bills go 8-8 or 9-7.

Cool, where did you read about this?

[Formerly Allan in MD]

"Ryan" is a four letter word - and we have two of them.

[ndirish1978]

I don't think you can fire Rex and not just take down the whole structure that lead to his hiring in the first place. Take the list of the people in the room when he was hired (owners, Brandon, Whaley) and fire everyone who doesn't own the team.

[CommonCents]

I don't think you can fire Rex and not just take down the whole structure that lead to his hiring in the first place. Take the list of the people in the room when he was hired (owners, Brandon, Whaley) and fire everyone who doesn't own the team.

Yep, can't replace all the players here either so hire a disciplinarian and slowly filter out the players who won't adapt.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Full extermination, nuke it from orbit:

 

[billsfan_34]

Can we at least wait until the season is over before we figure out what we need to turn around? We're 6-6, not 3-9.

 

We have more negative threads on here than in the Jets forum.

5 of our 6 wins are against teams with losing records.

[Maddog69]

If I was Pegula I would hire an outside consultant to review the organization and make suggestions of what to change.

Doesn't it seem like a smart business man would have done that while he was in process of acquiring the team so they could hit the ground running from day one? Why waste 2 1/2 season?

Although he did wait 2.5 yrs to blow up the Sabres front office.

[ndirish1978]

I don't follow hockey closely enough to know how his ownership of the Sabres could be applied to anticipate what moves we could see from him with the Bills. In my limited knowledge I'm aware that they basically tanked a season for McDavid, wound up with Eichel and are still bad (is that correct)? I dunno what he's done with FO structure or coaches. Can someone give me a Pegula's Sabres for Dummies tutorial?