Willing to discuss changes.....but lets discuss options

[Prickly Pete]

 

But why? Honest question, which I think ties back to OP's original point.

 

And then what?

 

Is there a new coach, GM, or anyone else who would improve our chances to Win the Superbowl This Year? Because that must be the goal. Not to "improve." Not to be "competitive" and not to "make the playoffs." The solid teams never think this way, even though they are required to say so in the media. But no, they are out to cut your throat.

 

So, we fire Rex, hire somebody else, and now we are paying 2 coaches. And we fire Rob and give him his nice walk-away cash too. Then what?

 

Somebody said coughlin. Meh, but maybe. Feels like a stop-gap at best. Me, I want the smartest man in the room, whoever that is, cause we havent had that coaching the bills in forever.

 

To put the team on notice that there are jobs at stake.

 

It doesn't have to be the HC, or the GM, it could be an assistant, or a player cut or traded.

Edited September 16, 2016 by HoF Watkins

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

Let's let the matketing team run football operations. Clearly they are the only people who are great at their jobs in the Bills organazation. They get us to keep watching this giant turd of a team every year.

 

Also more mean tweets and catchy slogans like all in, run deep, and "this team doesn't suck as bad as you think" should be the next slogan.

To some extent they already do.

[Maury Ballstein]

I'd fire Roman today.

 

That's my proposed change.

 

I don't know why it is so hard to emulate what made McCoy successful in Philadelphia.

 

I don't know why he got cute and abandoned what worked last year.

This. Roman is trash.

[NoSaint]

I'd fire Roman today.

 

That's my proposed change.

 

I don't know why it is so hard to emulate what made McCoy successful in Philadelphia.

 

I don't know why he got cute and abandoned what worked last year.

i like roman, but we have personnel that should be running a chan scheme (assuming you could get TT to throw in the middle after creating more space).

[Reed83HOF]

if only it moved the sticks...

 

I'm still not exactly sure why EJ is our short yardage back either.

 

He was the 16th pick a couple years ago...

[aristocrat]

Interesting question: who has real trade value on this team? We need to take into account contracts/guaranteed money, etc.

 

1. Watkins, if healthy. Affordable through 2017.

 

2. Gilmore, if he doesn't keep sucking. A rest of 2016 rental for a contender desperately in need of a CB.

 

3. Woods. Same thing, but you wouldn't get much for him.

 

4. Darby. But trading him wouldn't make much sense since he's cost-controlled for a couple more years.

 

5. Wood. But that would be a salary dump, with nothing of value in return. I think he's playing well enough and his contract is market value so that you could move him if motivated. And I would.

 

6. Hughes. He's got a pretty big contract, but he's playing well and the edge rusher is in high demand in today's NFL.

 

The ill-advised contracts I'd like to dump are un-dumpable: McCoy, Dareus, Clay, even Cordy. That's the killer for a rebuild. Too much dead wood.

 

i dont think we can trade sammy as we would take on dead cap hit of 11 mil which is 5 mil more than his current cap hit so we'd have to wait until off season. if we trade him then it's a 6mil dead hit next year. very manageable. gilmore can be traded no problem right now.

 

hughes we keep as we need to keep talent so the new coaching staff can just come in and have talent.

[Reed83HOF]

i like roman, but we have personnel that should be running a chan scheme (assuming you could get TT to throw in the middle after creating more space).

 

Good coaches adjust their scheme to the talent; we don't do that. We change a coach and change scheme which leads us to play players in a scheme they suck in while we add and subtract players to fit the scheme. In Bills fashion, once we have the players we have already learned that we blew it with the coaching staff. Rinse and Repeat.

 

What irks me the most is that, we are so far from being a well-coached team, it doesn't matter what you have for players. What I saw last night was more bumbling around with blow time outs and a dumb challenge on a 4 yard play (I know at least we got one right, but come on). Down by 2 scores and we move like we are playing in cement shoes, zero urgency, not more than one play called at a time, Clay (IIRC) instead of going out of bounds he turns inside and loses more time for us. The basic fundamentals are not being taught. As far as the offense goes, you have Roman, Palmer and Kromer - no one teaches this?

[BrooklynBills]

Any talk of hiring a new coach without discussing cleaning house in the front office is a waste of time. I do not want the following people to have any input in the hiring of a new coach:

 

Terry Pegula

Kim Pegula

Doug Whaley

Russ Brandon

 

This is Pegula's mess. He was offered help from the NFL via a consultant after Marrone opted out and he denied the help. He let Brandon have a seat at the table influencing his decision making. He let a green, over-his-head GM run the coach search. Do you remember the coaching search, where they literally interviewed everyone, had zero direction, and ended up picking a safe, retread coach? It was a joke. They picked Ryan on his past performance with no vision of where the league is headed.

 

As far as what the Pegulas should do to fix everything:

 

1. Clean house. Literally everyone.

2. Hire a consultant(Ron Wolf/Charlie Casserly)

3. Sign the checks

[Reed83HOF]

Time to let the stadium be empty and bring the brown bags back. I'm over it....

[Bookie Man]

Imagine what he be like with a Rogers, Bree's, Brady throwing him the football? I bet 1000 + yard and 8-9 TD's

Those are actually his numbers from last year. If he even had a halfway competent passer throwing to him, he'd probably in the 1300 10-12 TDS range.

[ndirish1978]

Absolutely the fans need to voice their displeasure publicly and not just complain to each other. Brown baggin it seems like a good idea

[May Day 10]

Any talk of hiring a new coach without discussing cleaning house in the front office is a waste of time. I do not want the following people to have any input in the hiring of a new coach:

 

Terry Pegula

Kim Pegula

Doug Whaley

Russ Brandon

 

This is Pegula's mess. He was offered help from the NFL via a consultant after Marrone opted out and he denied the help. He let Brandon have a seat at the table influencing his decision making. He let a green, over-his-head GM run the coach search. Do you remember the coaching search, where they literally interviewed everyone, had zero direction, and ended up picking a safe, retread coach? It was a joke. They picked Ryan on his past performance with no vision of where the league is headed.

 

As far as what the Pegulas should do to fix everything:

 

1. Clean house. Literally everyone.

2. Hire a consultant(Ron Wolf/Charlie Casserly)

3. Sign the checks

 

 

This is right on for me. Getting rid of coaches doesnt mean a thing if these same people are allowed to "select" another coaching staff.

[The Frankish Reich]

Well, our former brain trust of Marrone and Hackett are currently O line and QB coach in Jacksonville. I'm kind of pulling for them simply because it would be fun to have them start winning something before the Bills do.

[Nihilarian]

Like I've been saying for years. This team is desperate for a senior NFL football man at the top of the org like a team president of football operations and then let him make all the football decisions!

[baskingridgebillsfan]

Any talk of hiring a new coach without discussing cleaning house in the front office is a waste of time. I do not want the following people to have any input in the hiring of a new coach:

 

Terry Pegula

Kim Pegula

Doug Whaley

Russ Brandon

 

This is Pegula's mess. He was offered help from the NFL via a consultant after Marrone opted out and he denied the help. He let Brandon have a seat at the table influencing his decision making. He let a green, over-his-head GM run the coach search. Do you remember the coaching search, where they literally interviewed everyone, had zero direction, and ended up picking a safe, retread coach? It was a joke. They picked Ryan on his past performance with no vision of where the league is headed.

 

As far as what the Pegulas should do to fix everything:

 

1. Clean house. Literally everyone.

2. Hire a consultant(Ron Wolf/Charlie Casserly)

3. Sign the checks

Brandon should never be allowed in a football discussion again that does not involve tickets

[offsides#76FredSmerlas]

Please note where I said to ditch everything in week 3. I just disagreed with hiring Pettine- our defense stunk under him, how many 200 yard rushing games did we give up?

We led the league in sacks and were among the leaders in take aways. I guess you have the opinion that we stunk and that's fine, your entitled but I don't feel we stunk. We did need to improve against the run but Rex has proved his defenses can't get anything done. I just think if you hire a different defensive coach with a whole new approach you can throw this season away because it will take time to learn. I would bet that most fans would take Pettine over Rex and the gang in a heartbeat.

[macaroni]

IMHO ... fire Rob .... we have a defensive "genius" as our head coach ... we have a defensive coordinator in Dennis Thurman ... and we have a defensive consultant who is here not because of nepotism, but because he's a "damn good coach" (according to Rex), and we can't stop Ryan freakin' Fitzpatrick for gods sake

 

Could the problem be that too many cooks spoil the broth???

 

If I were the GM, I'm showing Rob the door today and telling Rex if the ship isn't righted real REAL soon he's next.

 

 

just my 2 cents

[Prickly Pete]

Bring this guy in for an interview, after the CFL season is over.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_Austin

[maddenboy]

Any talk of hiring a new coach without discussing cleaning house in the front office is a waste of time. I do not want the following people to have any input in the hiring of a new coach:

 

Terry Pegula

Kim Pegula

Doug Whaley

Russ Brandon

 

This is Pegula's mess. He was offered help from the NFL via a consultant after Marrone opted out and he denied the help. He let Brandon have a seat at the table influencing his decision making. He let a green, over-his-head GM run the coach search. Do you remember the coaching search, where they literally interviewed everyone, had zero direction, and ended up picking a safe, retread coach? It was a joke. They picked Ryan on his past performance with no vision of where the league is headed.

 

As far as what the Pegulas should do to fix everything:

 

1. Clean house. Literally everyone.

2. Hire a consultant(Ron Wolf/Charlie Casserly)

3. Sign the checks

 

I really like this clear, level-headed thinking.

 

I take one exception: Whaley seems to be great at finding talent, in the draft or FA. We should try to keep him around until he becomes less "green" about the total duty package of an NFL gm. Maybe condition the new GM has to keep Whaley as AGM?

Edited September 16, 2016 by maddenboy

[BrooklynBills]

 

I really like this clear, level-headed thinking.

 

I take one exception: Whaley seems to be great at finding talent, in the draft or FA. We should try to keep him around until he becomes less "green" about the total duty package of an NFL gm. Maybe condition the new GM has to keep Whaley as AGM?

Glenn and Watkins are the only talented offensive players he has drafted since has been here, including when he was assistant GM. Anyone could have made the Watkins pick(BTW he isn't even the best WR in that draft) and the Glenn pick is an abherration when you look at all the other offensive "talent" that he has drafted.

[The Frankish Reich]

 

I really like this clear, level-headed thinking.

 

I take one exception: Whaley seems to be great at finding talent, in the draft or FA. We should try to keep him around until he becomes less "green" about the total duty package of an NFL gm. Maybe condition the new GM has to keep Whaley as AGM?

I beg to differ. Let's set aside obvious talent that everyone would have wanted, the only question being at what price. In other words, no counting Sammy, Clay, Gilmore, McCoy - those are guys he either paid big money to or used high draft picks on. And I can't count Incognito since that wasn't really of the "I find talent where others miss" category; it was the team taking a flyer on a guy who was considered so toxic that he was out of the league for a year. That leaves us with:

 

- Jerry Hughes. Big win.

- Tyrod. Good signing, but as to whether it's a big win, well, time will tell, and his stock is dropping fast.

- Darby. This is cheating a bit since his talent was well known and he was a "character issues" guy.

- Hogan. A really nice pickup, but now he's gone.

- Karlos. See Darby, but this 50/50 character issues guy went the wrong way.

- Corey Graham. Solid player, not really a "find" - o.k. safety, paid like one.

 

Am I missing anyone? Corbin Bryant maybe? That's not exactly a player to hang your reputation on. A rejuvenated Reggie Bush? Where are they hiding him? Salas? Gillislee? Really? Against that we have:

 

- EJ. Bust. And in retrospect, obviously drafted too high.

- Goodwin/Graham. Barely contributed

- Koundjio/Richardson. The double bust O line draft.

- Duke/Meeks. The double bust safety draft.

- Dez/Da'Rick. The double bust late round or UDFA "big receiver with creatively spelled name" reach that didn't pan out. I know there's no expectations with these guys, but consider for a moment that Quincy Enunwa, who showed up big time last night, was a 6th rounder. Where's Whaley's late-round receiver surprise?

Edited September 16, 2016 by The Frankish Reich

[May Day 10]

Whaley knows how to identify defensive prospects. Very good at it.

 

 

That seems to be all he is good for.

[Big Turk]

I beg to differ. Let's set aside obvious talent that everyone would have wanted, the only question being at what price. In other words, no counting Sammy, Clay, Gilmore, McCoy - those are guys he either paid big money to or used high draft picks on. And I can't count Incognito since that wasn't really of the "I find talent where others miss" category; it was the team taking a flyer on a guy who was considered so toxic that he was out of the league for a year. That leaves us with:

 

- Jerry Hughes. Big win.

- Tyrod. Good signing, but as to whether it's a big win, well, time will tell, and his stock is dropping fast.

- Darby. This is cheating a bit since his talent was well known and he was a "character issues" guy.

- Hogan. A really nice pickup, but now he's gone.

- Karlos. See Darby, but this 50/50 character issues guy went the wrong way.

- Corey Graham. Solid player, not really a "find" - o.k. safety, paid like one.

 

Am I missing anyone? Corbin Bryant maybe? That's not exactly a player to hang your reputation on. A rejuvenated Reggie Bush? Where are they hiding him? Salas? Gillislee? Really? Against that we have:

 

- EJ. Bust. And in retrospect, obviously drafted too high.

- Goodwin/Graham. Barely contributed

- Koundjio/Richardson. The double bust O line draft.

- Duke/Meeks. The double bust safety draft.

- Dez/Da'Rick. The double bust late round or UDFA "big receiver with creatively spelled name" reach that didn't pan out. I know there's no expectations with these guys, but consider for a moment that Quincy Enunwa, who showed up big time last night, was a 6th rounder. Where's Whaley's late-round receiver surprise?

Stefan Charles was a good find...Urbik a good find...Chandler a good find...all these players played pretty well here off the waiver wire

[reddogblitz]

He was concussed but wanted to act like a tough guy, which ruined his play.

 

This is big problem I have with Rex and Hotrod. He gets hurt and wants to stay in even though he shouldn't and Rex sends him back in. Last year vs NE he couldn't even throw and he went back in. From seeing his demeanor on the sidelines last night it looked like he needed more time but Rex sent him out there.

 

We should have let EJ finish the series and then re evaluate IMHO.

Edited September 16, 2016 by reddogblitz

[jms62]

Put me in the Grossly overpaid for Sammy and McCoy camp. We seem to be be creating Whaley for what McCoy did 3 years ago in Philly. He has given us nothing even close and at his price point is a huge bust in my mind.

I beg to differ. Let's set aside obvious talent that everyone would have wanted, the only question being at what price. In other words, no counting Sammy, Clay, Gilmore, McCoy - those are guys he either paid big money to or used high draft picks on. And I can't count Incognito since that wasn't really of the "I find talent where others miss" category; it was the team taking a flyer on a guy who was considered so toxic that he was out of the league for a year. That leaves us with:

 

- Jerry Hughes. Big win.

- Tyrod. Good signing, but as to whether it's a big win, well, time will tell, and his stock is dropping fast.

- Darby. This is cheating a bit since his talent was well known and he was a "character issues" guy.

- Hogan. A really nice pickup, but now he's gone.

- Karlos. See Darby, but this 50/50 character issues guy went the wrong way.

- Corey Graham. Solid player, not really a "find" - o.k. safety, paid like one.

 

Am I missing anyone? Corbin Bryant maybe? That's not exactly a player to hang your reputation on. A rejuvenated Reggie Bush? Where are they hiding him? Salas? Gillislee? Really? Against that we have:

 

- EJ. Bust. And in retrospect, obviously drafted too high.

- Goodwin/Graham. Barely contributed

- Koundjio/Richardson. The double bust O line draft.

- Duke/Meeks. The double bust safety draft.

- Dez/Da'Rick. The double bust late round or UDFA "big receiver with creatively spelled name" reach that didn't pan out. I know there's no expectations with these guys, but consider for a moment that Quincy Enunwa, who showed up big time last night, was a 6th rounder. Where's Whaley's late-round receiver surprise?

Put me in the Grossly overpaid for Sammy and McCoy camp. We seem to be be crediting Whaley for what McCoy did 3 years ago in Philly. He has given us nothing even close and at his price point is a huge bust in my mind. Edited September 16, 2016 by jms62

[Agent 91]

People in my section cheered EJ coming in. What does that tell you

Lol mine too. Buffalo is done with Tyrod. Well I think more so with his inability to throw over the middle

[Rico]

I beg to differ. Let's set aside obvious talent that everyone would have wanted, the only question being at what price. In other words, no counting Sammy, Clay, Gilmore, McCoy - those are guys he either paid big money to or used high draft picks on. And I can't count Incognito since that wasn't really of the "I find talent where others miss" category; it was the team taking a flyer on a guy who was considered so toxic that he was out of the league for a year. That leaves us with:

 

- Jerry Hughes. Big win.

- Tyrod. Good signing, but as to whether it's a big win, well, time will tell, and his stock is dropping fast.

- Darby. This is cheating a bit since his talent was well known and he was a "character issues" guy.

- Hogan. A really nice pickup, but now he's gone.

- Karlos. See Darby, but this 50/50 character issues guy went the wrong way.

- Corey Graham. Solid player, not really a "find" - o.k. safety, paid like one.

 

Am I missing anyone? Corbin Bryant maybe? That's not exactly a player to hang your reputation on. A rejuvenated Reggie Bush? Where are they hiding him? Salas? Gillislee? Really? Against that we have:

 

- EJ. Bust. And in retrospect, obviously drafted too high.

- Goodwin/Graham. Barely contributed

- Koundjio/Richardson. The double bust O line draft.

- Duke/Meeks. The double bust safety draft.

- Dez/Da'Rick. The double bust late round or UDFA "big receiver with creatively spelled name" reach that didn't pan out. I know there's no expectations with these guys, but consider for a moment that Quincy Enunwa, who showed up big time last night, was a 6th rounder. Where's Whaley's late-round receiver surprise?

Yep. Very dismal amount of talent to show for 3 years. Even the most naive will look back after he's finally gone and realize the mediocre job he's done.

[Agent 91]

Boom!!! EJ threw the best looking 10 yard pass any Bills QB threw all night.

Tyrod launched 1 to goodwin and the Salas td was a broken play. That is not gonna hold up. Fitz had a bunch of short intermediate and long balls. He used the whole field. Tyrod had 297 but 2 passes went for like 130 and how much came in garbage time. The int was a bad throw. I need a qb who can use a whole field. And that 90 mil took everyone's patients away

[maddenboy]

Glenn and Watkins are the only talented offensive players he has drafted since has been here, including when he was assistant GM. Anyone could have made the Watkins pick(BTW he isn't even the best WR in that draft) and the Glenn pick is an abherration when you look at all the other offensive "talent" that he has drafted.

 

Perhaps I should have said "identifying talent." Because a GM also gets rid of players who dont fit, or are on the downside.

 

Mario. Cleofus McKelvin. Jairus. A couple others. Not sure Whaley was GM or AGM for all of these, but without doubt he had input.

 

I'm not his mother or his wife. Just saying he seems to have an eye. And is prolly worth keeping in the building.

[Agent 91]

if only it moved the sticks...

 

I'm still not exactly sure why EJ is our short yardage back either.

Lol I dont know either. Why not use Felton

I too was hoping they would keep Tyrod on the sideline. I think EJ would have done much better, especially with all the time the offensive line was giving him. Tyrod looks shell-shocked, at this point.

Dont mean you. But cue the Trent Edwards fans. He has no swagger because he is like the bully who gets punched for the first time. His story has been written. He was a feel good last year. This is him.

i like roman, but we have personnel that should be running a chan scheme (assuming you could get TT to throw in the middle after creating more space).

I was listening to the Murphy show and I think he hit it on the head. Tyrod would probably do good as a jet and fitz with this bills team. We are set for the crossing rub patterns. We need someone with those thangs and is confident in the throw.

[Solomon Grundy]

Lol I dont know either. Why not use Felton

 

Dont mean you. But cue the Trent Edwards fans. He has no swagger because he is like the bully who gets punched for the first time. His story has been written. He was a feel good last year. This is him.

 

I was listening to the Murphy show and I think he hit it on the head. Tyrod would probably do good as a jet and fitz with this bills team. We are set for the crossing rub patterns. We need someone with those thangs and is confident in the throw.

Exactly!! Go back and look at Woods/Watkins careers in college. They were run after the catch receivers. Not fly patterns, down and out/button hooks guys. I personally would have liked to see how EJ would have faired against the Jets defense. It's getting very discouraging to hear opposing defenses say "they want to make Tyrod a QB"

[reddogblitz]

and the Salas td was a broken play. That is not gonna hold up.

Unless we have a lot more (by design) broken plays.

 

Seahawks make a living out of this.

 

It's what Hotrod is good at. Evidently Salas is good at it too.

 

Own it and ride it.

 

Do what you do do well.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

I'd fire Roman today.

 

That's my proposed change.

 

I don't know why it is so hard to emulate what made McCoy successful in Philadelphia.

 

I don't know why he got cute and abandoned what worked last year.

 

Wow! This post deserves to be *bumped* for prescience! No one else had any idea.

[dulles]

Bring this guy in for an interview, after the CFL season is over.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_Austin

Is he Marc Trestman's cousin? How did that work in Chicago?

[Prickly Pete]

Is he Marc Trestman's cousin? How did that work in Chicago?

 

Not Trestman's cousin, but Marv Levy wasn't Trestman's grandfather either. How did that work in Buffalo?

Edited September 17, 2016 by HoF Watkins

[Agent 91]

Those are actually his numbers from last year. If he even had a halfway competent passer throwing to him, he'd probably in the 1300 10-12 TDS range.

I was actually thinking the same thing 1500 and 12 or so TD

[Boatdrinks]

Rex isnt going to take this team to the playoffs this year....but if we are firing him then who?

 

To me one of the huge huge problems here is that Roman's running game is NOT WORKING.....

 

Yes...Tyrod was bad game 1.....and up and down in game 2.....but he is scoring points

 

As far as the defense? To me the huge problem here is we have to PROTECT our defense....if we have to do that...then Rex Ryan may as well not be our head coach

The running game has been sub par, not sure if it's blocking or Shadys insistence on bouncing everything to the edges. It seemed vs Jets he decided to cut up inside a few times and made some good gains. I do think the O lacks a complement to McCoy like Karlos provided ( unexpectedly ) last season. Maybe it will be J Williams. Tyrod has much to improve on, but his contract gives the Bills all season to evaluate and decide. That will take care of itself. The defense lacks depth , and there is zero pass rush after Hughes. The potential there likely will peak at a middle of the pack unit. They don't need to be protected, but they cannot be absolutely hung out to dry like vs Jets. The O has to get some sustained drives and t.o.p for them to have a chance. This defense doesn't have enough playmaking potential to be dominant. Rex has to do a much better job than he showed vs Jets. You just can't be afraid to blitz a QB like Fitzpatrick, who is virtually a lock to throw it up for grabs when pressured.

[reddogblitz]

I do think the O lacks a complement to McCoy like Karlos provided ( unexpectedly ) last season.

I disagree. We have Gillislee. Finally we get him into the game Thursday and he scores a TD on a great play. Actually in the last month of the season last year he provided this role well when Karlos would get his weekly injury. I believe he had pretty much passed up Karlos on the depth chart anyway.

 

Boggles my mind why he hadn't got some carries this year. Seems Roman decided that McCoy would get ALL the carries.

[PolishDave]

People in my section cheered EJ coming in. What does that tell you

If that really happened, which I doubt unless they were kidding, then you sit with a bunch of idiots.

[reddogblitz]

If that really happened, which I doubt unless they were kidding, then you sit with a bunch of idiots.

At my house we were glad EJ was coming in too and we weren't kidding. Are you saying EJ did not play well on those 2 plays? I would love to see Hotrod drop back, not hold the ball, and make a nice pass for 10 yards sometime.