vegas55 Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Little attention has been paid to the miscues of Graham. A fairly high priced free agent (for his position) gained favor with media/fans with a couple of good early season performances in the 2014 season. But things actually went south later in that season with several terrible miscues, specifically giving up long, game changing touchdowns against Houston and Oakland by employing inexplicably bad technique of looking into the backfield while covering the teams fastest receiver on a fly route. Last night was typical Corey. Caught holding a scrub receiver who makes a lot less money than him, a holding call which cost us that huge interception early in the game. Later in the half he is super slow in getting over to cover a running back on a simple swing pass, and then lets that same 5th string back break his sad ass attempt at a tackle to score a game changing TD. But Teflon Corey manages to escape criticism, in spite of a disturbing trend of bad plays in big situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDIGGZ Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 He made some good plays too. He's supposed to be a versatile backup that can play corner or safety. He wasn't brought here to start. He's playing as well as he can for him. Because Aaron got hurt and Duke sucks he is forced into a position where he has to hold down that spot and he's doing an OK job imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 The Bills held the Cheaters to 20 points in their own house. Graham and the defense wasn't the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWATeam Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 He's playing really well. He missed a 1 on 1 tackle, it happens... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 He made waaaaaaay more good plays to his one broken tackle. He's not even part of the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norton20 Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 He's the best safety they have at the moment. The Bills have a number of problems (consistency on either side of the ball being primary to me) but Graham is not anywhere near the top of this list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas55 Posted November 24, 2015 Author Share Posted November 24, 2015 He made waaaaaaay more good plays to his one broken tackle. He's not even part of the problem. Of course he is not part of the problem. In a low scoring game, he completely gave up one touchdown to the Pats with his horrible coverage and tackling. Then committed a dumb penalty which negated Bills interception which would have had them in scoring position at New England 20 yard line. Two huge game changing plays in a very low scoring game. But according to you, "he's not even a part of the problem". Well how ever you spin it he was a HUGE part of the problem last night. But thanks - you made my point - Teflon Corey - above ANY criticism, no matter how huge his blunders are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KGUNBILLS Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 I would more be upset with the continuous lack of pass interference calls on the Pats, then with Graham. Multiple time I saw Pats defenders with their hands on Bills receivers without turning their heads just putting their hands up when the receiver reached for passes. BS in my book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan130 Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 He made some good plays too. He's supposed to be a versatile backup that can play corner or safety. He wasn't brought here to start. He's playing as well as he can for him. Because Aaron got hurt and Duke sucks he is forced into a position where he has to hold down that spot and he's doing an OK job imo Exactly. He is filling in and doing a descent job for the most part. I never really had high expectations for him, we got bigger problems to worry about than corey graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norton20 Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Of course he is not part of the problem. In a low scoring game, he completely gave up one touchdown to the Pats with his horrible coverage and tackling. Then committed a dumb penalty which negated Bills interception which would have had them in scoring position at New England 20 yard line. Two huge game changing plays in a very low scoring game. But according to you, "he's not even a part of the problem". Well how ever you spin it he was a HUGE part of the problem last night. But thanks - you made my point - Teflon Corey - above ANY criticism, no matter how huge his blunders are. Actually, no. Everyone just disagrees with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas55 Posted November 24, 2015 Author Share Posted November 24, 2015 Actually, no. Everyone just disagrees with you. Yes "everybody" - if your definition of everybody is the 9 people who posted. Last I checked there was a few more Bills fans out there than the nine who responded here. There might even be a few that agree with me that a safety making several million dollars a year should be able to tackle a 5th string RB making the NFL minimum; in an incredibly big moment. Maybe, just maybe that's not expecting too much from a high paid safety. BTW, how many big tackles did the Pats safetys miss last night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jahbonas Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 He's the best safety they have at the moment. The Bills have a number of problems (consistency on either side of the ball being primary to me) but Graham is not anywhere near the top of this list. What does your statement have to do with what the OP states? He makes a very valid point that Graham did make 2 game changing plays to the negative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan_34 Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Little attention has been paid to the miscues of Graham. A fairly high priced free agent (for his position) gained favor with media/fans with a couple of good early season performances in the 2014 season. But things actually went south later in that season with several terrible miscues, specifically giving up long, game changing touchdowns against Houston and Oakland by employing inexplicably bad technique of looking into the backfield while covering the teams fastest receiver on a fly route. Last night was typical Corey. Caught holding a scrub receiver who makes a lot less money than him, a holding call which cost us that huge interception early in the game. Later in the half he is super slow in getting over to cover a running back on a simple swing pass, and then lets that same 5th string back break his sad ass attempt at a tackle to score a game changing TD. But Teflon Corey manages to escape criticism, in spite of a disturbing trend of bad plays in big situations. The guy has been having a great year. Corners and safeties miscues are always amplified as the spotlight is on them. How about we score a few more points? The defense wasnt the problem. Take a look at Roman first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 What does your statement have to do with what the OP states? He makes a very valid point that Graham did make 2 game changing plays to the negative. For starters, it's questionable whether the RB wheel was his responsibility. Two, we need to see All-22 replay of the hold to see if it was legit. If it's the one I'm thinking of, the hold may have tied up Gronk to have him bobble the ball and no INT happens in the first place. Three, as others have said his contributions far outweigh the mistakes. It's odd that he picked Graham to bash in this game. If you want to single out a safety for stupid play, pick on Duke, who made two bonehead plays in three downs he was on the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 (edited) What does your statement have to do with what the OP states? He makes a very valid point that Graham did make 2 game changing plays to the negative. There isnt a single player in the entire NFL that is perfect on every play. It doesnt take a football mastermind to pick out 1 or 2 mistakes by any player and twist them into "game changing" plays. Sure, he should have made that tackle, that's what he gets paid to do. But... 1. The RB also gets paid to break such tackles and 2. It's been questioned that Mario was supposed to fan out and at least get in between the RB and QB to prevent the pass. Could just as easily be all his fault for blowing the assignment. Edited November 24, 2015 by DrDareustein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fixxxer Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 If I'm on the drawing board and I call that defensive play against that same formation the Pats were in, I tell my RE (Mario) to disrupt the route of the safety valve and then rush the passer. That way, the QB gets sacked by the blitzer or he hurries the throw and misses his intended target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas55 Posted November 24, 2015 Author Share Posted November 24, 2015 If I'm on the drawing board and I call that defensive play against that same formation the Pats were in, I tell my RE (Mario) to disrupt the route of the safety valve and then rush the passer. That way, the QB gets sacked by the blitzer or he hurries the throw and misses his intended target. Okay Coach, you are not on the "drawing board" and Mario gets paid big bucks to rush the passer, not "disrupt" passing routes. Whatever scheme all you geniuses imagine, your boy Corey HAS to make that tackle. And tell me about the great play Corey made last night - I did not see it. I saw him missing an easy tackle and get called for a killer, game changing penalty. What brilliance did you see, other than vague references to "he played great". Unless you reviewed the game film, neither you or any Bills coach can tell you how well he played. You really think watching a game on tv qualifies you to judge the quality of safety play? Please!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 I'll also say he's not that highly paid. In fact he's pretty average to below average, in the grand scheme of pay checks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Wasn't his hold on Gronk? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Vader Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 I'll admit that Graham has made mistakes this season, but I do not see him as a liability. That TD was ugly last night, but was that because of Graham or Bradham? Also, I do not think the Bills gave him an enormous contract, as the OP implies. I am more concerned with our LB's than Graham. Aaron Williams being injured most of the season has hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaaadThingsMan Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Safety play is key in most Defenses, the Jests havent been the same without Pryor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Okay Coach, you are not on the "drawing board" and Mario gets paid big bucks to rush the passer, not "disrupt" passing routes. Whatever scheme all you geniuses imagine, your boy Corey HAS to make that tackle. And tell me about the great play Corey made last night - I did not see it. I saw him missing an easy tackle and get called for a killer, game changing penalty. What brilliance did you see, other than vague references to "he played great". Unless you reviewed the game film, neither you or any Bills coach can tell you how well he played. You really think watching a game on tv qualifies you to judge the quality of safety play? Please!! Actually quite a bit of the D line and LBs job is to disrupt pass routes/fill pass lanes after shedding the block. especially with a quick release. why focus on Corey though? He just switched positions? No question he has made an error or three and missed a tackle or two. But we can pick on just about anyone if that is your agenda? Okay Coach, you are not on the "drawing board" and Mario gets paid big bucks to rush the passer, not "disrupt" passing routes. Whatever scheme all you geniuses imagine, your boy Corey HAS to make that tackle. And tell me about the great play Corey made last night - I did not see it. I saw him missing an easy tackle and get called for a killer, game changing penalty. What brilliance did you see, other than vague references to "he played great". Unless you reviewed the game film, neither you or any Bills coach can tell you how well he played. You really think watching a game on tv qualifies you to judge the quality of safety play? Please!! Thats a bit much 55. Are you an NFL safety or perhaps a D backs coach? I can sense your are pissed, but why so much at Graham. Hate Duke Williams mistakes! Like i do!! Safety play is key in most Defenses, the Jests havent been the same without Pryor Nor Bills minus Aaron Williams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badasss Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 He rarely misses a tackle. Last night's blunder was surprising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 (edited) A) his excellent deep coverage led directly to the gilmore pick. B) it now appears that the td at the end of the first half was the product of mario going rogue and trying to pad his sack stats (at least according to ray lewis, who knows how rex's D works). Edited November 25, 2015 by dave mcbride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonborn10 Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Graham, Williams, Gilmore, and Darby when healthy s the best defensive backfield in football. McKelvin/Rambo are good enough to start on most teams and make ridiculously good nickel, dime, and three safety packages. The linebacker play was really poor for the first half of the season but is getting better. DL production is hard to quantify but they are playing well too. Duke Williams should not be on the roster. He is awful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Graham is a solid DB who is very versatile. He made one bad play, and rex's defense requires a lot from the safeties. He rarely misses tackles and will look much different with Aaron Williams at 100%. I also like Rambo, and D. Williams absolutely sucks. He was exposed again last night in the second half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 For perspective on the pay comment he's the 25th highest paid (using average pay per year) safety and mid 30s at CB. So sliiiiiightly above average pay. No problem with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dulles Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Of course he is not part of the problem. In a low scoring game, he completely gave up one touchdown to the Pats with his horrible coverage and tackling. Then committed a dumb penalty which negated Bills interception which would have had them in scoring position at New England 20 yard line. Two huge game changing plays in a very low scoring game. But according to you, "he's not even a part of the problem". Well how ever you spin it he was a HUGE part of the problem last night. But thanks - you made my point - Teflon Corey - above ANY criticism, no matter how huge his blunders are. Umm, this is not a consistent logical argument. I did a quick review. Here's your result: https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/loaded-question This type of illogical argument only works on talk radio. If you've got a good voice, perhaps you could make a run at Rome or the Herd. Otherwise, I suggest you sharpen the argument a bit. Graham, Williams, Gilmore, and Darby when healthy s the best defensive backfield in football. McKelvin/Rambo are good enough to start on most teams and make ridiculously good nickel, dime, and three safety packages. The linebacker play was really poor for the first half of the season but is getting better. DL production is hard to quantify but they are playing well too. Duke Williams should not be on the roster. He is awful. That's the real problem on D. On that missed tackle, Duke looked like they dragged a scalper off the corner before the game and threw a uniform on the dude. I certainly wasn't happy with the missed tackle by Graham...He needs to bring the guy down, but Duke has to go. I'm looking forward to seeing what Whaley can do in the draft at S and LB. He's got a nose for defensive prospects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Okay Coach, you are not on the "drawing board" and Mario gets paid big bucks to rush the passer, not "disrupt" passing routes. Whatever scheme all you geniuses imagine, your boy Corey HAS to make that tackle. And tell me about the great play Corey made last night - I did not see it. I saw him missing an easy tackle and get called for a killer, game changing penalty. What brilliance did you see, other than vague references to "he played great". Unless you reviewed the game film, neither you or any Bills coach can tell you how well he played. You really think watching a game on tv qualifies you to judge the quality of safety play? Please!! Following your logic, if he didn't hold Gronkowski on that reversed INT, Gronkowski makes the catch. The hold basically prevented a 15-20 yard pickup. So what's the issue there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fixxxer Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Okay Coach, you are not on the "drawing board" and Mario gets paid big bucks to rush the passer, not "disrupt" passing routes. Whatever scheme all you geniuses imagine, your boy Corey HAS to make that tackle. And tell me about the great play Corey made last night - I did not see it. I saw him missing an easy tackle and get called for a killer, game changing penalty. What brilliance did you see, other than vague references to "he played great". Unless you reviewed the game film, neither you or any Bills coach can tell you how well he played. You really think watching a game on tv qualifies you to judge the quality of safety play? Please!! I'm a regular Bill Bellichick (without the cheating) Never in my post I said Graham was brillant on Monday night, he missed that tackle and had the penalty that negated the early interception which was just plain dumb. Regarding Mario Williams, I agree with you, I would ask him to rush the passer most of the time, but when the blitzing package calls for him to do other things, he has to do it. Watch some of the Patriots games and you will see from time to time their LBs and DE messing with receivers routes at the start of the play so the QB doesn't have a quick outlet, they redirect them and then apply pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joeziehmer Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 Graham, Gilmore, Darby, and Wilson have cemented themselves in coverage. Loser McFumbles helps us lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 Great players make some bad plays. Very good players make a decent amount of bad plays like missing tackles that lead to touchdowns. Good players make a surprisingly lot of bad plays. Lousy players make consistently bad plays. Corey Graham is somewhere between very good and good. He's extremely versatile. He's decent in pass and run support. He can cover one on one. He can hit hard. He's an all pro special teams player. He missed a huge tackle that he needs to make if the Bills are to beat the Pats in NE on a Monday night. Simple as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 Great players make some bad plays. Very good players make a decent amount of bad plays like missing tackles that lead to touchdowns. Good players make a surprisingly lot of bad plays. Lousy players make consistently bad plays. Corey Graham is somewhere between very good and good. He's extremely versatile. He's decent in pass and run support. He can cover one on one. He can hit hard. He's an all pro special teams player. He missed a huge tackle that he needs to make if the Bills are to beat the Pats in NE on a Monday night. Simple as that. For a guy that's paid around 60th or so among secondary players-- all very fair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddie's Dead Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 Last night was typical Corey. Caught holding a scrub receiver who makes a lot less money than him, a holding call which cost us that huge interception early in the game. First, the scrub was Gronk, and second, the hold by Graham is the ONLY reason Gronk bobbled the pass into Rambo's hands. Enough with the "his hold nullified the INT". IT CREATED THE INT!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 Hey, I once saw Muhammad Ali get knocked down in the ring. Seriously. I did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not at the table Karlos Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 Little attention has been paid to the miscues of Graham. A fairly high priced free agent (for his position) gained favor with media/fans with a couple of good early season performances in the 2014 season. But things actually went south later in that season with several terrible miscues, specifically giving up long, game changing touchdowns against Houston and Oakland by employing inexplicably bad technique of looking into the backfield while covering the teams fastest receiver on a fly route. Last night was typical Corey. Caught holding a scrub receiver who makes a lot less money than him, a holding call which cost us that huge interception early in the game. Later in the half he is super slow in getting over to cover a running back on a simple swing pass, and then lets that same 5th string back break his sad ass attempt at a tackle to score a game changing TD. But Teflon Corey manages to escape criticism, in spite of a disturbing trend of bad plays in big situations. it's amazing how many people come on here and just flatout make things up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 The real question is......why did defenders not swarm to the ball Here me out on this...... Yes Graham missed the tackle.....but he also for an instant slowed the receiver to a stop.....then the receiver had to break AWAY from the defender's grasp slowing him down even more.....your telling me the faster players on the field could not track him down/take the angle to cut him off from the end zone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 The Bills held the Cheaters to 20 points in their own house. Graham and the defense wasn't the problem. And really 7 of those points are on McLoser and his fumbled punt. I think Graham has been fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 And really 7 of those points are on McLoser and his fumbled punt. I think Graham has been fine. I think the Bills held after that turnover and the Pats just got a FG. They got one first down after getting it on the 30. Great stand actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 I think the Bills held after that turnover and the Pats just got a FG. They got one first down after getting it on the 30. Great stand actually. Oops. Maybe I just prefer my version of history in which McKelvin is personally responsible for all that is bad in Bills land. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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