What is happening on Defense?

[Coach Tuesday]

 

Likely a result of no safety help behind them and not wanting to get beat deep. If you play tight 1x1 coverage with those receivers and no help, they'll beat you off the line and go for 6.

 

Actually I think against NE it was to avoid the pick play/shallow crosser. Failed.

[Nanker]

I think the DLine has lost interest in trying to get to the QB. I think they're mentally defeated. They mill around and don't get set before the snap. I think there are times when they have simply given up.

[GaryPinC]

 

Likely a result of no safety help behind them and not wanting to get beat deep. If you play tight 1x1 coverage with those receivers and no help, they'll beat you off the line and go for 6.

I agree but you have two pretty good cover guys in Gilmore and Darby. At LEAST change it up once in a while to keep the QB guessing and maybe lengthen that 2 second release!

[Luxy312]

I think the DLine has lost interest in trying to get to the QB. I think they're mentally defeated. They mill around and don't get set before the snap. I think there are times when they have simply given up.

 

I don't think this is true at all. My biggest problem is that it seems like every other play where Rex is only sending 3. Not sure how 3 is supposed to get pressure when opposing QB's are blocking with 5 + a TE or RB. As for the "milling around", that's not really right either. They purposely shift around on the line to try to make the offense guess where they will be coming from. Different guys rush at different times making for multiple looks. Another point I made in another thread is that it's hard to evaluate any defense when the offense is terrible. Bills are 29th in yards and 29th in first downs on offense. They've taken nearly 100 yards of penalties a game. No defense can look good when the offense isn't even close to average.

[boater]

Doug Marrone > Rex Ryan

No.

 

Schwartz > Dennis Thurman

 

The Head Coach sets the tone overall, big picture stuff. He makes game day decisions like clock calls, going for it, timeouts or replays.

 

The OC or DC are responsible for the actual strategy and play of their units.

 

6 games in, I'm not at all impressed with our OC or DC.

 

Frankly, with the weapons our OC and DC have at their disposal, I'd say they are under performing (aka SUCK).

[KOKBILLS]

I think the DLine has lost interest in trying to get to the QB. I think they're mentally defeated. They mill around and don't get set before the snap. I think there are times when they have simply given up.

 

This was driving me nuts while watching yesterday...And they were constantly standing up...Especially in the 2nd half and on 3rd downs (from what I could tell anyway)...It just seemed so out-of-synch and bizarre...

[Malazan]

The players haven't bought into the system. The coaches haven't changed the system to get them to buy in..

[Nihilarian]

 

Confusion has been their biggest problem on defense all season.

 

It's causing hesitation and the defenders subsequently aren't playing fast.

 

That's not all of it......they need to force the offense to widen their OL splits to allow one-on-one matchups in space in pass pro as well as to force the running game inside where Dareus, Brown and Bradham can use their ability to make plays.

 

As I said.......the Bills have not placed a high priority on intelligence/instinctiveness on draft day and it's beyond obvious that they are overwhelmed with the amount of adjustments in this scheme.

 

Its ALL about the current defensive coaches asking the superstar defensive linemen who are renowned for rushing the passer to drop into pass coverage, or cover a gap when they should be pinning their ears back and just rushing the passer. In actuality Jerry Hughes did an adequate job in covering TE Rob Gronkowski in pass coverage, and even got a positive grade for it. So did Kyle Williams when asked to drop into pass coverage. These men will do anything asked of them and do it well.

 

There is a huge disconnect between what this defensive staff is asking the defensive line players to do, and what Schwartz, Pettine asked them to do. Now tell me, which defensive scheme actually works?

 

Great coaches don't force players to fit their scheme! Great coaches find out what the players do best and build a scheme to get them in the best position to make plays. The Buffalo Bills have spent more draft picks, and money on building a top defense and the only man that actually accomplished this was Jim Schwartz!

 

2 yr DC George Edwards was a bad DC 28th-30th in pts allowed, 25th-26th in yards allowed. 27th in sacks with 27, 29

 

1 yr DC Dave Wannstedt was a bad DC- 26th in pts allowed, 22nd in yards allowed. 18th in sacks with 36.

 

1 yr DC Mike Pettine was an upgrade DC- 20th in pts allowed, 10th in yards. #2 in the NFL in sacks with 57

 

1 yr DC Jim Schwartz was a masterclass at DC #4 in pts allowed, #4 in yards allowed. #1 in the NFL in sacks with 54.

 

after 6 games Dennis Thurman +++++ #16 in pts allowed, #17 in yards allowed. #24th in sacks with 9.

 

This years team is almost a joke on defense. Only one pressure, and no sacks on Andy Dalton all game. Then Dalton 243 passing yards with 3 TD's tells me this years defensive coverage scheme stinks. For a Buffalo Bills defense that used to terrify every NFL QB. All they need do now is just get the ball out quick and its a W in the win column.

 

The ONLY thing this years Buffalo Bills team does well is get penalties! Other fans around the league are smiling to themselves to see Rex Ryan's bullies get smacked down game after game.

[Augie]

Well none of them will make it at this rate.

They are EXTREMELY well paid, and can afford the best seats StubHub has to offer!

 

Oh, that's not what you meant?

[reddogblitz]

Excellent point. And if you look around the NFL at some of the really good or great coaches, you'll see that they started as assistants on the opposite side of the ball to what they became known for. Belichick became known as a defensive coach but started with special teams and wide receivers.

 

Anyone care to guess which side of the ball Tom Landry coached for the Giants?

[NoSaint]

I didn't see yesterday's game but saw the New England one. The thing that bugs me about this excuse is our cover guys are playing soft coverage at the line. They were like 10-15 yds off!

we have seen both LBs and unfortunately DEs try to cut underneath those fast routes.

 

id be curious if we are playing off when lineman are dropping (bait the throw and be safe deep when we have less rush) and a little more on the line when trying to rush. its beyond what i am reasonably going to catch simply watching with a beer on sunday. its hard for me to believe rex is simply dumb with this stuff, but it seems more possible he is overthinking it.

[reddogblitz]

Part of it is coaching, another part is (and it pains me to say this) our guys are overrated. Mario isn't done but he's past his prime, same is true with Kyle Williams. Jerry Hughes can have good games but isn't going to dominate every week like a prime-Mario (and he'll get us penalties). Dareus may be he only truly elite player we have at the moment on the supposed great D-line...and he can off weeks he's not superman.

 

 

Guys must have gotten old and over rated quickly. We led the league in sacks over the last 2 years. Now we're 20th or 27th OT whatever it is. That's a steep decline. Coaching and scheme change is a more plausible reason IMHO.

[NoSaint]

The players haven't bought into the system. The coaches haven't changed the system to get them to buy in..

regardless of if the system works or not - the players being unhappy is a potential trouble. even in a great system, if the players arent all in, you would see struggles.

[bisonbrigade]

The Bills are trying to be cute and win by scheme instead of talent, like dropping Mario in coverage. Keep it simple and let each player do what they do best. And for the love of God don't play the corners 12 yards off the receivers. Bump and run with "ALL" of the front four rushing, play Mario and Hughes wide off the edge.

[reddogblitz]

Bump and run with "ALL" of the front four rushing, play Mario and Hughes wide off the edge.

 

You would think that a good D for a team trying to throw quick short routes would be to bump the WRs to throw them off and hold them up until Mario and Co. can arrive at the QB.

[Big Blitz]

@MatthewWGR

The Bills' defense is 6th in Net Yards Per Pass Attempt against and 7th in Yards Per Play Against. But in order to win, has to be best

 

 

Meaningless when the other teams average drive start is your own 45. Thanks to personal fouls and bad special teams coverage on all the 3 and outs we have.

[BADOLBILZ]

More than once yesterday the safeties, LBs, and CBs were barking at each other before plays about where to line up just prior to the snap. Confusion seemed rife on those plays. And what was up with taking the corners out on the final Cincy TD play? The Bills put in a run stuffing package at the 4 yard line, and they put Rambo in single coverage on Eifert. Rambo can't cover him, and of course Dalton saw it and took the easy TD. Before the play, I saw the CBs coming to the sideline and a substitute package coming in and thought, WTF?

 

That play sent me to the exit.

 

The defensive coaching has been just as disappointing to watch as the season Wanny ran the talent into the ground.

[GunnerBill]

 

The defensive coaching has been just as disappointing to watch as the season Wanny ran the talent into the ground.

 

100%. What makes it more sickening is we moved on the best coordinator we have had on either side of the ball probably since Wade in order to bring this "dream team" in.

[Malazan]

regardless of if the system works or not - the players being unhappy is a potential trouble. even in a great system, if the players arent all in, you would see struggles.

 

I'm not sure what you're saying here. We've seen struggles. They are a testament to the players not buying into the system and the coaches not being able to adjust said system to get those players buying and playing at the level they are capable of doing..

[BADOLBILZ]

More than once yesterday the safeties, LBs, and CBs were barking at each other before plays about where to line up just prior to the snap. Confusion seemed rife on those plays. And what was up with taking the corners out on the final Cincy TD play? The Bills put in a run stuffing package at the 4 yard line, and they put Rambo in single coverage on Eifert. Rambo can't cover him, and of course Dalton saw it and took the easy TD. Before the play, I saw the CBs coming to the sideline and a substitute package coming in and thought, WTF?

 

 

I made the mistake of tuning into the Monday night game.

 

To find the Eagles employing a wide-9 look with press-man look across the board and Eli throws a frantic pick-6 and is totally befuddled.

 

Giants offensive line, forced into wider splits are struggling in pass pro and Manning is holding the ball and fleeing the pocket.

 

I mean.......wtf Rex???

[dave mcbride]

I made the mistake of tuning into the Monday night game.

 

To find the Eagles employing a wide-9 look with press-man look across the board and Eli throws a frantic pick-6 and is totally befuddled.

 

Giants offensive line, forced into wider splits are struggling in pass pro and Manning is holding the ball and fleeing the pocket.

 

I mean.......wtf Rex???

Yep. Maybe the eagles looked at the bills film and thought, well we can see what doesn't work.

[BADOLBILZ]

Yep. Maybe the eagles looked at the bills film and thought, well we can see what doesn't work.

 

 

And the Eagles used to play the wide-9 all the time.

 

This is not new for Eli.

 

QB's do not like pressure and they do not like their timing being disrupted by press-man.

[T master]

I don't know why new coaches can't leave their ego's at the door in a situation like this one & watch the tapes from the previous staff to see what was working well with the players they still have on the squad .

 

I Rex & company would look at what was going from 80.5 sacks in 2 seasons to 4 or 5 this year in 6 games with what we have up front is ludicrous !!

 

Terry P. & Doug Whaley need to be asking that question to those in charge, the Bills D this year looks like last years Jets D !

 

It's just the tables have turned, this year the Jets D is like the Bills were last year .

 

Rex better be careful or his last football job could end quicker than he thought !!

[GG]

And the Eagles used to play the wide-9 all the time.

 

This is not new for Eli.

 

QB's do not like pressure and they do not like their timing being disrupted by press-man.

This should be a very humbling game for our defensive coaches to watch. I hope Pegula has it on the loop in the hotel rooms all week.

[26CornerBlitz]

@TBNSports

The player's coach must now listen to his players on 'D.' @TyDunne on #Bills coach Rex Ryan: http://bills.buffalonews.com/2015/10/19/the-players-coach-must-now-listen-to-his-players-on-d/

[bills_fan_in_raleigh]

Rex is currently coaching for 1960's style football not 2015 style football. The offense can't sustain drives and his scheme is t stop the run well know one has tried to run.

[All_Pro_Bills]

 

 

I made the mistake of tuning into the Monday night game.

 

To find the Eagles employing a wide-9 look with press-man look across the board and Eli throws a frantic pick-6 and is totally befuddled.

 

Giants offensive line, forced into wider splits are struggling in pass pro and Manning is holding the ball and fleeing the pocket.

 

I mean.......wtf Rex???

Only watched the first half and it helped that the Giants turned the ball over 4 times, along with the Eagles not committing 5 or 6 personal foul or misconduct penalties, but can it get any more obvious?

[GaryPinC]

we have seen both LBs and unfortunately DEs try to cut underneath those fast routes.

 

id be curious if we are playing off when lineman are dropping (bait the throw and be safe deep when we have less rush) and a little more on the line when trying to rush. its beyond what i am reasonably going to catch simply watching with a beer on sunday. its hard for me to believe rex is simply dumb with this stuff, but it seems more possible he is overthinking it.

Agree with you about all this, especially because my view is from the tv also. My biggest worry, beyond the overthinking, is that they aren't doing enough in-game adjustments. You've got penalties and confusion to begin with, do these coaches blame the woes on these and limit their in-game adjustments?

Edited October 20, 2015 by GaryPinC

[fergie's ire]

Supposedly Rex calls the defense so the D coordinator is not essential. However, since Pettine left the Jets D has been mediocre....until this year and now it is great again. Yes, they made major upgrades in their secondary...but still. I think there is a common denominator.

[Nanker]

Anyone care to guess which side of the ball Tom Landry coached for the Giants?

Or which side of the ball Vince Lombardi coached for those same Giants?

 

They are EXTREMELY well paid, and can afford the best seats StubHub has to offer!

 

Oh, that's not what you meant?

 

 

I made the mistake of tuning into the Monday night game.

 

To find the Eagles employing a wide-9 look with press-man look across the board and Eli throws a frantic pick-6 and is totally befuddled.

 

Giants offensive line, forced into wider splits are struggling in pass pro and Manning is holding the ball and fleeing the pocket.

 

I mean.......wtf Rex???

Great read.

 

Yep. Maybe the eagles looked at the bills film and thought, well we can see what doesn't work.

Our film on that game is THE textbook on how to fail.

 

This should be a very humbling game for our defensive coaches to watch. I hope Pegula has it on the loop in the hotel rooms all week.

From your lips to the Pegula's ears.

 

Something's got to change. It's got to. Rushing three is nuts, and now Kyle perhaps our quickest lineman is out. It's not looking pretty. Not at all.

[Billsfan1972]

Not a single sack or hit on Dalton and it was a home game. No excuse whatsoever.

 

Philly at hiome controls the Giants and creates pressure. The Bills were okay, took OBJ out of the game, but when they needed a tackle allowed a 51 yard TD. The Giants are okay and not a juggernaut. NE killed us and that happens. The D was not as great as others made them out to be vs. Indy & Mia, but did play well. Mariotta is a damn rookie and played well and moved the ball, and the Bills got 1 sack.

 

When they do have a good game they bak and go on as if they are the best D ever. It is embarassing.

 

They are lost right now.

[26CornerBlitz]

Let us rush, Rex

Mario Williams isn't the only prominent Bills defender who believes Rex Ryan needs to make some scheme changes. Marcell Dareus said Tuesday that Buffalo's game plan isn't playing to its strengths

 

[PlayoffsPlease]

 

wow-- only one QB hit.

Did they apologize to Mr. Dalton after said hit.

[3rdand12]

 

I want wins...

"I want it all and i want it now"

Jim Morrison and the Doors

[26CornerBlitz]

Dareus joins Williams in questioning Rex's calls

Marcell Dareus has joined Mario Williams in questioning how coach Rex Ryan is using the players in his defensive schemes.

 

 

[3rdand12]

 

 

Dareus could be great at it....he makes a ton of stack and shed plays.......but NT's just aren't valued because objective one around the league defensively is to get into backfields and disrupt QB's........ and it would be a tremendous waste of his talent to be exclusively a double team draw.

 

When he expressed a disinterest in doing what his DL coach wanted him to do this summer that was the very first sign of things to come.

Well said BADOL. The first paragraph is nice insight as to Dareus' ability to play multiple.

 

and yes again to the second point. I did not make much of it, but he might have been speaking for the group? Being the young Kid.

Like i said before the front four want to play like Jim lined em up. Beat the man in front of, ( of course its not exactly what they did).

But play powerfully and explode off the ball.

How many gosh darned stutter steps have i watched from the guys.

 

Its just unnatural. lol

 

Dont worry Bills defense wont play anymore Tampa two BS coverage under crap. Rex has too much pride and so do the players

 

Rex knows he has to turn em loose. Somewhat like he did with EJM tossin to Watkins. Lets see what the hell happens.

I might think the linebackers will clean up what squeaks through.

 

get all four, or so into that backfield be it run or pass.

 

You would think that a good D for a team trying to throw quick short routes would be to bump the WRs to throw them off and hold them up until Mario and Co. can arrive at the QB.

seems simple enough to me! Honestly. I dont get paid to come up with this stuff either rdb. Sure ther is alway alwasy more than meets the eye and so muchwe fans don't know. But its seem like after NE we all thought gee! how about we rush and press.

 

crazy ideas we fans have.

[BuffaloBaumer]

Man, if you told me defensive players would be ripping into Rex after week 6......I mean wow, this is turning into another disastrous hire.

[3rdand12]

Man, if you told me defensive players would be ripping into Rex after week 6......I mean wow, this is turning into another disastrous hire.

a small misunderstanding..

[Augie]

Man, if you told me defensive players would be ripping into Rex after week 6......I mean wow, this is turning into another disastrous hire.

a small understatement..

 

Maybe some fish & chips and a few pints will fix everything?

[NoSaint]

Well said BADOL. The first paragraph is nice insight as to Dareus' ability to play multiple.

 

and yes again to the second point. I did not make much of it, but he might have been speaking for the group? Being the young Kid.

Like i said before the front four want to play like Jim lined em up. Beat the man in front of, ( of course its not exactly what they did).

But play powerfully and explode off the ball.

How many gosh darned stutter steps have i watched from the guys.

 

Its just unnatural. lol

 

Dont worry Bills defense wont play anymore Tampa two BS coverage under crap. Rex has too much pride and so do the players

 

Rex knows he has to turn em loose. Somewhat like he did with EJM tossin to Watkins. Lets see what the hell happens.

I might think the linebackers will clean up what squeaks through.

 

get all four, or so into that backfield be it run or pass.

 

seems simple enough to me! Honestly. I dont get paid to come up with this stuff either rdb. Sure ther is alway alwasy more than meets the eye and so muchwe fans don't know. But its seem like after NE we all thought gee! how about we rush and press.

 

crazy ideas we fans have.

Amusing enough- the Tampa two is more in line with schwartzs Rush the front 4 with only limited responsibility in the run game. The coverage shells vary but the front 4 are getting up the field to disrupt the qb.