A Few Thoughts About The Game, in no particular order.....

[bmur66]

I just have to say Pears Sucks with a capital S. They can't get one yard with Pears flopping around on the ground. Cujowhateverhisname must be really bad if he can't take this guys job. I beginning to really question Woods too. They can't run with these guys.

I love this D but the lack of a running game is going to do them in. I can't believe they won and only converted one third down. Is that right?

[PO'14]

I just have to say Pears Sucks with a capital S. They can't get one yard with Pears flopping around on the ground. Cujowhateverhisname must be really bad if he can't take this guys job. I beginning to really question Woods too. They can't run with these guys.

I love this D but the lack of a running game is going to do them in. I can't believe they won and only converted one third down. Is that right?

 

Pears has yet to properly block 1 defender on a screen play.

[Not at the table Karlos]

 

 

Just cuz you are being a better person doesnt mean you have to wear rose coloured glasses. Gilmore was awful today!

 

I like the rest of your post!

don't tell wgr that Gilmore was bad. They'll yell at you and call you dumb and say you don't know football.

 

Gilmore was bad. Idk if it was scheme or what but on the off chance they did play press coverage they didn't jam the receiver at the line and watched them blow by him. Also on a 3rd down he was covering Gordon and literally stood in one spot and didn't move just watched Gordon run by luckily it was a bad pass and Gordon couldn't complete the catch.

 

I just have to say Pears Sucks with a capital S. They can't get one yard with Pears flopping around on the ground. Cujowhateverhisname must be really bad if he can't take this guys job. I beginning to really question Woods too. They can't run with these guys.

I love this D but the lack of a running game is going to do them in. I can't believe they won and only converted one third down. Is that right?

pears is horrible. I think this makes wood look worse than he is. But wood hasn't been amazing either

[klos63]

Fair enough. He made adjustments in the 2nd half. But as a #1 CB, he was terrible in the first half.

what would make you happy? to expect any CB to totally shutdown any receiver these days is ridiculous. Gordon has destroyed other CB's in his career, this was a solid overall defensive effort. If Gilmore is our biggest concern on defense, we are in good shape.

[CardinalScotts]

Just cuz you are being a better person doesnt mean you have to wear rose coloured glasses. Gilmore was awful today!

 

I like the rest of your post!

 

give up 10 pts im gonna say good game and move on

[Big C]

don't tell wgr that Gilmore was bad. They'll yell at you and call you dumb and say you don't know football.

 

Gilmore was bad. Idk if it was scheme or what but on the off chance they did play press coverage they didn't jam the receiver at the line and watched them blow by him. Also on a 3rd down he was covering Gordon and literally stood in one spot and didn't move just watched Gordon run by luckily it was a bad pass and Gordon couldn't complete the catch.

 

You don't think that maybe if he just stood there it was a scheme designed for him to pass Gordon off and cover the flat?

Edited December 1, 2014 by Big C

[JohnC]

Gotham Bill, Your post game analysis is my favorite topic. It draws a lot of smart responses.

 

Just a few observations that I came away from this game. I am befuddled as to why there are so many critics of Gilmore. I consider him to be in the top third of the CBs in the league. He usually covers the best receivers and for the most part he doesn't allow them to get behind him. He is a coveted large size CB that most teams would love to have.

 

Jackson is one of my all-time favorite Bills. Although he is a terrific pass blocker and he follows his blockers very well it is apparent to me that he has lost a step or two. There is little explosion in his runs. I would like to see Brown get more carries.

 

The first half of the game was dreadful. I was tempted to go outside and enjoy the weather. However, I stuck it out. There is no doubt that Orton gives us a better chance to win compared to EJ. Having said that Orton is a pedestrian qb who because of his experience is going to allow your team to compete but is not going to get you anywhere. I'm mostly indifferent to having Orton back or not. If this franchise had a more talented starter this team would be a serious team.

 

As others have noted Watkins is not the player that he was in the beginning of the season. The groin injury and the rib injury must still be bothering him.

 

Our DL is one of the best in the game. The rookie LB Brown is a very instinctive player and Bradham is an emerging player.

 

In general I thought Marrone called a good game. He was tuned in to the rhythm of this game and flowed with it.

 

The fumble by Brown in the KC game when he was going in for a score is haunting this team. That heartbreaking loss still bothers me because the fans deserve a serious run for the playoffs.

[PO'14]

You don't think that maybe if he just stood there it was a scheme designed for him to pass Gordon off and cover the flat?

 

So just let him run there without putting a hand up? Please!

[Coach Tuesday]

You were right about Searcy. You were right about Searcy. Searcy.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

You were right about Searcy. You were right about Searcy. Searcy.

 

Agreed; he is very solid. I thought he was a natural in that cover 2 we were playing. Ironically, he made more plays today than I have seen donte whitner ever make in his entire career.

[thewildrabbit]

Welcome Back Bill, good to see the "a few thoughts" post again.

 

This years team has a championship defense no question in my view, and my fear is will they lose Schwartz after the season.

 

In regards to Sammy, from what I see he is full practice, and only listed as probable just like Fred Jackson. I doubt his injury is that big an issue anymore. My take is its the coaches inability to get the kid in space just like Spiller, and he is a player the team gave up 3 draft picks for so this offensive coaching staff can use him as a decoy.

 

I feel its not just the offensive game planning or scheming at fault. I feel the O line is also regressing due to bad coaching. I think a change to the offensive side of the ball in coaching to quality experienced NFL assistants would be as dramatic to the offense as Schwartz has been to the defense vs George Edwards / Dave Wannstedt.

 

Gotta love the win, Go Buffalo!

[Formerly Allan in MD]

The Browns' kick returner looked pretty fast to me.

Gilmore is terrible. Get rid of him and McKelvin.

It appeared that Cleveland's game plan was to continually attempt to run outside; to get away from our defensive line. Good strategy but we generally adjusted on defense pretty well.

As someone else mentioned, loved seeing some screen passes for a change.

Love our punter.

Freddie's nickname should be "guts."

[stony]

what would make you happy? to expect any CB to totally shutdown any receiver these days is ridiculous. Gordon has destroyed other CB's in his career, this was a solid overall defensive effort. If Gilmore is our biggest concern on defense, we are in good shape.

 

Leodis is on IR, now it's Gilmore's turn to be called a bust by the armchair scouts. I give them no bother, rather, I urge them to watch the cornerback play across the league this season. It's below average on a good day, usually pretty piss poor most days. Gilmore has played very well this season overall. If people are going to say he played bad today because it was in the game plan to keep Gordon in front of him, then so be it.

Edited December 1, 2014 by stony

[Not at the table Karlos]

 

 

You don't think that maybe if he just stood there it was a scheme designed for him to pass Gordon off and cover the flat?

why did he turn around and watch gordon and ignore the flat then?

 

 

 

Leodis is on IR, now it's Gilmore's turn to be called a bust by the armchair scouts. I give them no bother, rather, I urge them to watch the cornerback play across the league this season. It's average on a good day, usually pretty piss poor most days. Gilmore has played very well this season overall. If people are going to say he played bad today because it was in the game plan to keep Gordon in front of him, then so be it.

Gilmore was not on Gordon every play. How don't you people understand this Edited December 1, 2014 by kr632

[Kelly the Dog]

 

 

You don't think that maybe if he just stood there it was a scheme designed for him to pass Gordon off and cover the flat?

The Bills played zone most of the day it seemed. He definitely stopped on that play because it was not his responsibility. I don't know what the Lb's were doing on that play though. Someone left their position.

[eball]

Welcome back Bill and all the best to you. Go Bills.

[PO'14]

At the start of the game, Gilmore was on Austin

[BaaadThingsMan]

Preston Brown was all over the field today

Re-Sign Searcy please

Robert Woods is a 1a receiver..honey badger don't care he lays it on the line every game

I don't know why it seems this team just muddles along through large parts of the game sprinkled in with some great defense and frustrates the heck out of me??

On the sack fumble TD of JF2 I feel like the NFL was like, nah give the kid another shot but NO...Graham said No Sir!!!

[Not at the table Karlos]

Preston Brown was all over the field today

Re-Sign Searcy please

Robert Woods is a 1a receiver..honey badger don't care he lays it on the line every game

I don't know why it seems this team just muddles along through large parts of the game sprinkled in with some great defense and frustrates the heck out of me??

On the sack fumble TD of JF2 I feel like the NFL was like, nah give the kid another shot but NO...Graham said No Sir!!!

preston was good today. Possibly his best game as a pro. All over the place.

[Kelly the Dog]

At the start of the game, Gilmore was on Austin

He wasn't on anyone in particular. The Bills played zone most of the game. Whomever lined up on gilmore's side on any particular play is who he guarded, until he sometimes passed them off to someone else playing zone. On a smaller percentage of the plays they played man, but he still just started on his side of the field, which was usually the right.

[PO'14]

He wasn't on anyone in particular. The Bills played zone most of the game. Whomever lined up on gilmore's side on any particular play is who he guarded, until he sometimes passed them off to someone else playing zone. On a smaller percentage of the plays they played man, but he still just started on his side of the field, which was usually the right.

 

Agree fully.

 

And when the ball was passed towards GIlmore, it usually was a reception! Have a great night big boy. Traveling to the beach tomorrow.

 

GO BIlls!

[BuffaloBorn1960]

 

 

Agreed; he is very solid. I thought he was a natural in that cover 2 we were playing. Ironically, he made more plays today than I have seen donte whitner ever make in his entire career.

Donte who?

[C.Biscuit97]

Anyone complaining about Gilmore is flat out dumb. Gordon was the leading wr in the NFL last year and one of the most explosive players in the NFL. He held him to 70 yards and 10 yards/ catch.

 

But no cornerback gives up plays. Patrick Patterson didn't give up any plays to Jones today. I guess he sucks now. Gilmore would get a monster deal if he was a free agent. The only people who don't appreciate him are Bills fans with an axe to grind.

[NoSaint]

 

 

Agreed; he is very solid. I thought he was a natural in that cover 2 we were playing. Ironically, he made more plays today than I have seen donte whitner ever make in his entire career.

 

I was excited about the kid when drafted but started to write him off-- he's come along nicely though. Valuable mid round pick.

Edited December 1, 2014 by NoSaint

[Big Turk]

Gilmore was awful because he "let" one of the best receivers in football get 75 yards? I don't know how you can look at that performance and say any one player on the defense had a bad game. Everyone did their part and we dominated that offense.

 

How often do any of the Bills DBs get beat deep? Can we remember the last time a QB completed a pass that traveled more than 30 yards in the air? Maybe the New England game? They keep the WRs in front of them and make the tackle, limiting them to short gains for the most part. Yeah they might give up some completions, but over the course of a game, that D-Line is going to get its share of pressure and force the ball out

[BuffaninATL]

....or "Orton never looks downfield for him."

 

not to mention, Orton flat out threw 2-3 awful passes to him, like the one where Sammy shook Haden for a critical red zone attempt and Orton threw it at his shoestrings

 

....or "Orton never looks downfield for him."

 

not to mention, Orton flat out threw 2-3 awful passes to him, like the one where Sammy shook Haden for a critical red zone attempt and Orton threw it at his shoestrings...

[SectionC3]

Welcome Back Bill, good to see the "a few thoughts" post again.

 

This years team has a championship defense no question in my view, and my fear is will they lose Schwartz after the season.

 

In regards to Sammy, from what I see he is full practice, and only listed as probable just like Fred Jackson. I doubt his injury is that big an issue anymore. My take is its the coaches inability to get the kid in space just like Spiller, and he is a player the team gave up 3 draft picks for so this offensive coaching staff can use him as a decoy.

 

I feel its not just the offensive game planning or scheming at fault. I feel the O line is also regressing due to bad coaching. I think a change to the offensive side of the ball in coaching to quality experienced NFL assistants would be as dramatic to the offense as Schwartz has been to the defense vs George Edwards / Dave Wannstedt.

 

Gotta love the win, Go Buffalo!

 

I agree on the inability of the staff to get sammy the ball. I also think sammy isn't quite right yet. I don't know how things looked on TV, but watching him walk around between plays led me to believe he's still a little bit ginger.

 

Not that this is our problem, but the Browns have a tough decision on hoyer. The guy is a gamer but, at least from what i saw today, he's not a guy who is going to drive the ball down field. His first half was vaguely reminiscent of Andy dalton's game here last year.m dalton threw for 300 yards and was highly efficient on mostly safe stuff that stretched the field aside to side. I think he threw downfield nor more than a few times, and hiyer has some similar qualities.

[BuffaninATL]

sorry, didn't mean to go get the papers get the papers.....

[Jkgobills]

Welcome back Bill, thank you for your thoughts!

 

It's hard for me to fully judge Gilmore's play from watching on television and the limited view of field. It would be interesting to hear from anyone who was at the game. Better yet, maybe an All 22 Breakdown?

 

Last week, Sammy Watkins dropped 2 balls that were already on the way when he came out of his break. Does he have trouble tracking a ball when he can't see it leave the QB's hand? Did last week influence his targets this week?

 

But all is well, we have thoughts back and the Bills won!

[boyst]

Thanks, Bill! Glad to see you back!

 

The defensive package changed in the 2nd half - at least the little bit I watched. I think they came out expecting Cleveland to just burn the Bills on long plays back to back to back. I was amazed they didn't but it was probably better since Hoyer was very effective slicing and dicing. One Schwartz got adjusted in the second half it was night/day. The first half was simply even pressure from the front four and letting the Browns come to us. The second half was more aggressive after Hoyer and spreading the LB's out to account for the space with DB's up in coverage.

 

Schwartz needs to get a lot of credit for this game. His adjustments on D were the difference!

 

 

On offense it should be noted how close the Browns were playing us at the LOS. That we did not try to go over the top was amazing. I can't believe it took so long to pick on their safeties. I was perfectly fine not throwing at Haden because we had many other options available like Bob Woods and Mark Grade? Marvcuss Grate? Marcellus Grut? But, I would have been perfectly fine with throwing at him because I think he is overrated.

 

Oh well, at least Browns fans can still pump their chest out that he's all that. He's really not. The rest of the D is just much worse then he is and I cannot understand why they are ranked so high at pass defense.

[Punching Bag]

I just have to say Pears Sucks with a capital S. They can't get one yard with Pears flopping around on the ground. Cujowhateverhisname must be really bad if he can't take this guys job. I beginning to really question Woods too. They can't run with these guys.

I love this D but the lack of a running game is going to do them in. I can't believe they won and only converted one third down. Is that right?

 

Believe they would have gotten several 3rd downs except for penalty on Browns but yes on their own only one.

[Freddie's Dead]

1) LB's on this team are just sick. Can't wait to see these guys with Kiko.

 

2) Jim Leonhard is a baller. Short slow white guy just keeps making plays.

 

3) Gilmore played soft all day. I saw him play 10 yards off Gordon on a 3rd and 6, Gordon goes to the sticks and catches the easy first down. Bad day for Stephon.

 

5) Got some things to talk about on The Stadium Wall at twobillsdrive.

 

7) Da'Norris is Da'Bomb. Major baller.

 

10) MarQueis (that's not a name, sheesh) should have trucked Leonhard both times. I do not like that we have a tight end who kittied his way out of bounds both times when there were yards to be had.

 

11) Hughe$$$$$$ (can't take credit, saw that elsewhere here), and the holding going on by CLE was just ridiculous.

 

Please, no more Freddie "punt catching". He muffed the punt today, twice on the year.

 

No credit to Marrone for going for it on 4th down today?

 

Fred was interfered with by a Browns player, no call.

 

Meh.

[Pete]

Welcome back Bill! I always enjoy reading your observations. I am grateful that all is alright. Cheers my friend

[truth on hold]

- Watkins is not hurt, they wouldn't be running reverses to him if he were. Defenses have figured out not to jam him at the line as his best asset is upper body strength. They play him soft and dare Bills to throw it up for jump ball with the DB, and Sammy simply doesnt have the vertical to pull it off. They need to find a different way to get him open

 

- Bills offense lost it's spark and explosiveness when Spiller went out -- it's never been the same (the games where they scored points since ... Jets 2x and Browns was all due to defense). Bryce Brown is not anywhere near the same big play threat and cant draw defenders attention away from the WRs like Spiller

 

- Gilmore is fine, don't people realize he lines up where the coaches tell him? Geesh

 

- Bills need Dareus back and healthy next week to stop the run and create interior pressure on Manning, to force him to move out of the pocket

[Maury Ballstein]

- Watkins is not hurt, they wouldn't be running reverses to him if he were. Defenses have figured out not to jam him at the line as his best asset is upper body strength. They play him soft and dare Bills to throw it up for jump ball with the DB, and Sammy simply doesnt have the vertical to pull it off. They need to find a different way to get him open

 

- Bills offense lost it's spark and explosiveness when Spiller went out -- it's never been the same (the games where they scored points since ... Jets 2x and Browns was all due to defense). Bryce Brown is not anywhere near the same big play threat and cant draw defenders attention away from the WRs like Spiller

 

 

 

Funny stuff on Watkins. He's definetly not 100 percent.

 

Agree on Spiller, Bryce Brown is trash.

[thewildrabbit]

Funny stuff on Watkins. He's definetly not 100 percent.

 

Agree on Spiller, Bryce Brown is trash.

While I agree that Sammy might not be 100%, he wouldn't be practicing at all if it were still a real problem. If it were that bad the trainers wouldn't even let him practice / play due to re injuring the same area. Those injuries tend to linger over the season, and Freddy's was far more severe (3rd degree) as he actually tore the muscle. Four to six weeks is the usual time frame for recovery, and he injured it right before the first Jets game 5 weeks ago.

 

From my perspective its that since that breakout game against the Jets (3 receptions for 157 yards) is that he is considered the teams true #1 WR, and will continue to see coverage's rolled to him, and the opponents best DB on him. Then I think the current coaching staff hasn't got the first clue on how to get Sammy the ball while he is seeing so much coverage. So, be prepared to see him continually be used as a decoy.

[Not at the table Karlos]

Anyone complaining about Gilmore is flat out dumb. Gordon was the leading wr in the NFL last year and one of the most explosive players in the NFL. He held him to 70 yards and 10 yards/ catch.

 

But no cornerback gives up plays. Patrick Patterson didn't give up any plays to Jones today. I guess he sucks now. Gilmore would get a monster deal if he was a free agent. The only people who don't appreciate him are Bills fans with an axe to grind.

you do understand that Gilmore did not cover gordon the entire game right. So stop throwing that out there. Peterson has been good all season Gilmore has not. I don't have an axe to grind. I call it as I see it. I was happy when we drafted him and I am happy he is on our team. I just don't blindly give people credit for things they didn't do. Don't just regurgitate the Homer things wgr says. Gilmore even says he hasn't been playing as good as he is capable of. The end of his rookie year he was playing lights out. He hasn't been the same since. He has good plays here and there but he needs more consistency. Again I don't know if we are using him wrong as he is a press man corner and we were playing a lot of zone or what the only people that can say for sure aren't on this board and we can only speculate.

[Not at the table Karlos]

Gilmore is the 30th ranked corner in the nfl

[GunnerBill]

Gilmore is the 30th ranked corner in the nfl

 

Which is what? Just above middle of the pack? I think Gilmore is a good player who a lot of Bills fans beat up unfairly, however,he has not justified his status as a top 10 draft pick. If we had picked him in the 2nd or 3rd I think he'd be seen differently.

[thebandit27]

Gilmore is the 30th ranked corner in the nfl

 

According to an analytics site?

 

Thanks, but I'll trust my eyes.

 

He's the team's best DB by a country mile. By far his biggest weakness is lack of ball skills (or perhaps, it could be more accurately stated that he fails to make a play on the football). Beyond that, he plays his assignment to a tee, he's aggressive, he's physical, and he's consistent.

 

He's not a shutdown corner, but then again, nobody is...not even Richard Sherman. I watched Jordy Nelson smoke Darrelle Revis yesterday on more than one occasion.

 

Gilmore is a top 15 CB in the NFL at a minimum. If he develops better ball skills and hones in on his ball awareness he'll be a top 5 guy; his physical ability is off the charts.

 

Let's remember that the defense allowed 10 points yesterday, 7 of which came on a drive where the backup DL played every snap. This witch hunt on Gilmore is crazy IMO when put in proper perspective.

 

I look to Bill (the OP) as a great example. He's never been a fan of the Gilmore pick, and has been outspoken about his general dislike for Gilmore's play. If he's able to view it objectively and compliment him, that should tell folks a lot.