jahnyc Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Richardson and Henderson should not be starters at this point. No idea what to do at guard other than insert Urbik, but at tackle, move Pears or Hairston to RT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helpmenow Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Morris came from where? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 the Vikes had a full on pass rush because the Bills had no running game!!!!  What else did you think would happen,  Does anyone remember this saying,  You live by the Blitz you die by the Blitz  its almost as bad as a prevent D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 I got killed on TBD when I ripped the hiring of Pat Morris. The guy is past his prime as an offensive line coach. Â The OL's substandard play is just as much of an indictment on Marrone since it's supposed to be an area of expertise for him coupled with the fact that he's been very much hands-on. It's "obviously" the worst unit on the team. Marrone should have been moved to action well before now, but has shown himself to be very stubborn in the face of this failed experiment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 It would be a HUGE mistake to make wholesale changes on this O line.....  The guards are the majority of the problem....this is where they need to concentrate their efforts  Seantrel Henderson should be kept right where he is....he is a rookie ROT who has shown great flashes of being a good player......rookies will have ups and downs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeHateMe Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Pears is trash at Guard, Henderson got thrown around a few times yesterday, and Cyril has been meh. Â Urbik needs to get some burn.. Hairston? Â O-line is supposed to be Moron's specialty. Get this clown out of OBD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubes Posted October 20, 2014 Author Share Posted October 20, 2014 It would be a HUGE mistake to make wholesale changes on this O line.....  The guards are the majority of the problem....this is where they need to concentrate their efforts  Seantrel Henderson should be kept right where he is....he is a rookie ROT who has shown great flashes of being a good player......rookies will have ups and downs.  Not so sure I agree with you on Seantrel, John. I think he has a good future in the league, but I think he needs more time to learn and practice. In the meantime, we need someone like Pears or Hairston to get back there and keep people off Orton. Henderson's becoming too much of a liability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 (edited) Richardson has to be benched this Sunday with Urbik starting in his place. I'll be surprised if Marrone doesn't announce this on Wednesday because he cannot be this damn dumb and/or stubborn. Edited October 21, 2014 by 26CornerBlitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prickly Pete Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Firstly, measures need to be taken where Saint Doug's input is next to minimal in the offensive line meetings. Secondly, Pat Morris needs to be canned. Â Yeah, they are going to tell the head coach to "butt out, Doug" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjatcreek07 Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Probably have to stick with the rookies at this point because they should get better with more experience and nfl workouts. Pears on the other hand is terrible in my opinion and is better fit to be a backup and depth. Like many of the regulars have already said Urbik must of slept with the coaches wife or something to be getting zero playing time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yungmack Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 It seems to me that if you're going to be held responsible for the success or failure of the offense, you should have total control over the offense, including who is going to start on the O-line, so my question to anyone around here who might know the answer, is this the case with Hackett? Is he the guy who's sitting Urbik? Is he the one who's stubbornly insisting on continuing the zone blocking scheme that's clearly not working? Is it Hackett who decides that Hogan starts over Williams? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prickly Pete Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 There has to be at least one guy out there on a practice squad, a back up they could trade a low pick for, or a final cut veteran that still wants to play, that would be some kind of improvement. Â Just bring a couple in, and try to get one ready for after the bye. Â I know they tried to get a practice squad guy, but the team moved him to the roster. Hopefully, they are still looking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 I think you'll see major changes at the bye week. Â I am NOT looking forward to seeing what Rex cooks up with that front seven of his next week. They have to be salivating. Â GO BILLS!!! Â It really has the making of a potential nightmare... Â Do like me...Set your expectations so low there will be no way they can under-perform them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artmalibu Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 At what point do we need to have faith that the coaches are doing the best they can with what they got. The idea that some guys are playing so bad that the guys on the bench must be better seems a little nuts. Â I am not a Doug fan at all but if he thought that benching someone would give him a better chance to win he would do it. The problem is they thought they brought a guy in to play guard and he was never healthy and now on IR. Â At this point I dont understand why they wont kick the Incognito tires, as much of a dink that he is he would be an upgrade. I think you can get away with 1 bad guard but no chance with 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 At what point do we need to have faith that the coaches are doing the best they can with what they got. The idea that some guys are playing so bad that the guys on the bench must be better seems a little nuts. Â Except we've all seen Ubrik play competently at the guard position before, as recently as last year. Marrone's rational for keeping him off the field is because it's more important to have a back up for Wood than it is to start Ubrik at his natural position. Â So I would say the point we start to have faith that they're doing all they can is when the coaches, in fact, do all they can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBillsWillRiseAgain Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 I was disappointed when I heard Joe B. say on WGR this morning that Incognito has basically been blacklisted by the NFL so there's no chance the Bills sign him. I think it's the single most productive move we could make right now. I don't really care how much of a nutjob he is, he'd only be a 9 game rental until we can address the position during next offseason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 It really has the making of a potential nightmare... Â Do like me...Set your expectations so low there will be no way they can under-perform them... Â My expectations flat-lined weeks ago. But you make a good point. Â Rex Ryan is going to bring his patented overload blitz packages and I have no doubt Orton will recognize what side they're coming from and can put us in the right play to counter. Â I have NO confidence our OLine will be able to do the same. Â GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bills Fan of St Augustine Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Except we've all seen Ubrik play competently at the guard position before, as recently as last year. Marrone's rational for keeping him off the field is because it's more important to have a back up for Wood than it is to start Ubrik at his natural position. Â So I would say the point we start to have faith that they're doing all they can is when the coaches, in fact, do all they can. I think your right with Urbek and though I will deny saying it some day, I long to have Williams back at LG. Anyone know how far away he is from returning? Low mediocre OG play is better than what we have today! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 If someone needs more evidence the front office is not very capable, both in college and pro scouting, it's how they've handled the OL. Aside from QB, it's an area they've tremendously botched. Â Signing Chris Williams in UFA (and his history of back problems) along with drafting Kouandjio in the 2nd round are why they're forced to start 2 rookies and an out of position (who should be out of the NFL) Erik Pears. Â There isn't much to do now. Richardson isn't ready to play (most 5th rounders aren't), Pears isn't a guard, and Henderson needs more time, which the Bills don't have. Â I think Marrone has clearly overestimated his OL coaching skills. Because, as we learned with Mouse McNally, even good coaching can't solve a lack of talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1st&ten Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Rinehart wanted to follow D'Alessandris to San Diego. We had no chance of keeping him. Â GO BILLS!!! !! This is actually right. It gets old the number of posters who keep bringing up Rinehart's name. A second string guard who didn't want to be here. Bills were willing to offer him a contract. Get over it, please !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 If someone needs more evidence the front office is not very capable, both in college and pro scouting, it's how they've handled the OL. Aside from QB, it's an area they've tremendously botched.  Signing Chris Williams in UFA (and his history of back problems) along with drafting Kouandjio in the 2nd round are why they're forced to start 2 rookies and an out of position (who should be out of the NFL) Erik Pears.  There isn't much to do now. Richardson isn't ready to play (most 5th rounders aren't), Pears isn't a guard, and Henderson needs more time, which the Bills don't have.  I think Marrone has clearly overestimated his OL coaching skills. Because, as we learned with Mouse McNally, even good coaching can't solve a lack of talent. Who is responsible for that lack of talent on that line for two years now? and just think, this coaching staff had a young, inexperienced QB behind that line in EJ. A guy who didn't know enough to read the defense and call the appropriate play out of the crap play Hackett called like Orton does. Then Hackett started screwing up the offense against the Chargers by calling 40 passes vs 20 rushes. He did the same against Houston, a team at the time was 27th against the run. Hackett may just as well have put EJ on a sacrificial alter to have JJ Watt cut his heart out.  The offense is a joke with that O line, and Hackett calling plays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsMagic1 Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 (edited) Where is our high 2nd round pick from Alabama, Cujo? Edited October 21, 2014 by BuffaloBillsMagic1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bills Fan of St Augustine Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Where is our high 2nd round pick from Alabama, Cujo? On the bench or in street clothes as his current level of talent warrants. Bills reached for both Cyrus and Cyril as most other teams past them over apparently as they could rate talent. Did you watch Richardson in the senior bowl? Wow! He looked like an overweight HS player playing against NFL caliber competition! Koujo slid as far as he did for a reason. These guys may develop, but not in time to help us this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formerly Allan in MD Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Rookies or very inexperienced players that are force fed should either be improving, even slowly, or not starting. Take Manuel for example. Guess what folks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah John Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 It's interesting that Marrone benched his second-year QB who was stinking up the place while learning on the job, while he's letting his rookie O-linemen stink up the place while they learn on the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frogger Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 If someone needs more evidence the front office is not very capable, both in college and pro scouting, it's how they've handled the OL. Aside from QB, it's an area they've tremendously botched. Â Signing Chris Williams in UFA (and his history of back problems) along with drafting Kouandjio in the 2nd round are why they're forced to start 2 rookies and an out of position (who should be out of the NFL) Erik Pears. Â There isn't much to do now. Richardson isn't ready to play (most 5th rounders aren't), Pears isn't a guard, and Henderson needs more time, which the Bills don't have. Â I think Marrone has clearly overestimated his OL coaching skills. Because, as we learned with Mouse McNally, even good coaching can't solve a lack of talent. Â I really believe that the Bills were anticipating Justin Pugh being available in round two back in 2013, hence why they let two good LGs go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prickly Pete Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 It's interesting that Marrone benched his second-year QB who was stinking up the place while learning on the job, while he's letting his rookie O-linemen stink up the place while they learn on the job. Â Not really... he had a solid veteran QB to replace him. He doesn't have replacements for the O-lineman (even if you want to swap Urbik in). It's a different situation, and not hard to see the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 On the bench or in street clothes as his current level of talent warrants. Bills reached for both Cyrus and Cyril as most other teams past them over apparently as they could rate talent. Did you watch Richardson in the senior bowl? Wow! He looked like an overweight HS player playing against NFL caliber competition! Koujo slid as far as he did for a reason. These guys may develop, but not in time to help us this year.  Richardson slid and his play dropped off for one reason and one reason only...His weight...  "He has worked hard to lose that weight and that hard work paid off at Baylor's pro day, when he looked very good; he looked like the Richardson we remembered from a year ago when he was one of the most highly regarded offensive line prospects in the nation. He had gotten too heavy in 2013 and did not move well enough to be considered a top line prospect." -- Gil Brandt  Kouandjio slid because of his knee...And maybe he should have slid farther because of it...He certainly does look slow out there...It's well known many NFL teams took him off their boards due to his medical reports...But...Watch the LSU game last year and tell me Kouandjio was a reach in the 2nd round based on talent...If his knee checked out and he ran better he would have gone in the mid-1st on potential alone...  Now...No question neither has excelled as rookies, and both have been slow to develop...But name me one O-Lineman who has excelled under Marrone/Hackett so far outside of Glenn's pass blocking in 2013...None of the guys are getting better...And some are regressing...So I would not be too quick to assume it's simply a lack of talent... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Â !! This is actually right. It gets old the number of posters who keep bringing up Rinehart's name. A second string guard who didn't want to be here. Bills were willing to offer him a contract. Get over it, please !! exactly. I know for a fact that SD promised him a starting job as they had serious OL issues going into '13. He took it. End of story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Â Â The OL's substandard play is just as much of an indictment on Marrone since it's supposed to be an area of expertise for him coupled with the fact that he's been very much hands-on. It's "obviously" the worst unit on the team. Marrone should have been moved to action well before now, but has shown himself to be very stubborn in the face of this failed experiment. What about the GM who drafted three offensive linemen this year, plus a high-priced FA? Why isn't he to blame? And why should he be trusted to fix the problem he created? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 It makes no sense to continue joshing Henderson and pears on the right side, go back to pears and urbik who are certainly not great but way better then what we've been seeing  I'm with Max, one side of this line can be fixed immediately. Either do like Max says and fix the right side or insert Urbik for Richardson and fix the left side. Personally, I'd like to fix the left side seeing it's the QBs blind side.  What about the GM who drafted three offensive linemen this year, plus a high-priced FA? Why isn't he to blame? And why should he be trusted to fix the problem he created?  He drafted the linemen because they were deficient at the position! Why isn't he to blame, because he's the GM not the coach! Like at any job, your boss give you the tools and its up to you to get the job done. If one of the multiple tools you received doesn't work correctly you simply replace it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Â Â Â Â He drafted the linemen because they were deficient at the position! Why isn't he to blame, because he's the GM not the coach! Like at any job, your boss give you the tools and its up to you to get the job done. If one of the multiple tools you received doesn't work correctly you simply replace it. Is it also Marrone's fault that the "franchise QB" that the FO drafted last year to fix our QB problem can't play? Do you trust Whaley to find our QB of the future after whiffing so badly on EJ (and apparently failing to recognize it until 4 games into this season)? Or is it coaching? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Blitz Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 (edited) Our inability to attack all these aggressive stunts/blitzes (and a lot of man coverage--noticed this on all 22 also) with an effective screen game or the occasional draw is an indictment of a poorly coached offensive line and a terrible play caller. Â They all can move. We don't have a bunch of Langston Walker's out there. The least athletic is probably Richardson but he's no slug. Â Maybe Bryce can bring a patience speed and vision to the screen game Spiller couldn't? I don't freaking know anymore. Â Olines are supposed to get better as the season goes on. They've played almost every snap minus some Williams guy we had for a week. I can't really remember him. Â Indictment of the coaching. Edited October 22, 2014 by Big Blitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 The downside to drafting 3 offensive linemen: you gotta keep 3 rookie offensive linemen! Two of them are playing every down, and there's little depth because one of the reserves is a rookie too. In the latest "Hacket sucks" thread I posted Pro Football Focus's best idea: play Hairston for Seantrel (who's rated as the second worst tackle this year). In fact Urbik at LG and Hairston at RT is the best realistic fix I can see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Is it also Marrone's fault that the "franchise QB" that the FO drafted last year to fix our QB problem can't play? Do you trust Whaley to find our QB of the future after whiffing so badly on EJ (and apparently failing to recognize it until 4 games into this season)? Or is it coaching? Â EJ was drafted to develop! The plan was to go with Kolb and let EJ learn. Kolb got injured in TC and EJ was thrust in the lineup. EJ played well last season and started out good this season. Poor line play was stunting his growth, so Coach Marrone sat him for a proven veteran. EJ can play, will learn and get better, so to say Doug Whaley "whiffed" is a little premature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Levitre could get moved. He is expensive and hasn't been good since signing with Tenny though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Levitre could get moved. He is expensive and hasn't been good since signing with Tenny though. Â EJ for Levitre and a pick? The Titans might be the most QB needy team in the league... not that this would ever happen, but it worked in Madden! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricojes Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 I posted this link in another thread, it contains info regarding Levitre: Â http://grantland.com/the-triangle/the-nfl-trading-deadline-who-is-the-next-percy-harvin/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 What about the GM who drafted three offensive linemen this year, plus a high-priced FA? Why isn't he to blame? And why should he be trusted to fix the problem he created? Â Was it Whaley who forced Marrone's hand in moving Pears from RT to RG, benching Urbik, and playing two rookies in Henderson and Richardson? If he did, then I'll blame him too. But, I highly doubt St. Doug was forced into this as he has consistently said he has his best five OL on the field. He's supposed to be the genius OL coach who can mold these guys into a consistent and cohesive unit. Thus far it has been a complete disaster that I believe the canonized one is responsible for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big C Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Was it Whaley who forced Marrone's hand in moving Pears from RT to RG, benching Urbik, and playing two rookies in Henderson and Richardson? If he did, then I'll blame him too. But, I highly doubt St. Doug was forced into this as he has consistently said he has his best five OL on the field. He's supposed to be the genius OL coach who can mold these guys into a consistent and cohesive unit. Thus far it has been a complete disaster that I believe the canonized one is responsible for. Â Â Certainly Marrone has some say in personnel decisions. I get the feeling that C. Williams was more of a Marrone choice, as he wanted to develop a huge run blocking line. Whaley taking CK is looking like a mistake, but so far I don't know what else he should have done. We needed one and he got the best one available at that time. I guess he could have drafted Morgan Moses, but I don't think he's starting in Washington or anything. If Henderson pans out, he'll get a pass for it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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